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RE: [usa-tesla] Re: Article link

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  • Jet Black
    ... Advice on Theory that is applicable to Reality. ... I m glad there is still a tiny bit of doubt in that last statement Fred. Your mention of the
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 29, 2007
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      At 09:55 AM 3/27/2007 -0700, Fred wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >----------
      >From: Jet Black [mailto:derringer@...]
      >
      >"Personally , I believe the key lies in simplicity.
      >
      >In the proposed model you change energy into one form then another
      >far too many times for my liking."
      >Right. But recall Einstein's comment on theory. It should be as simple as
      >possible, and no simpler.

      Advice on Theory that is applicable to Reality.

      >
      >The multiple conversions are because
      >We need more than just heat.
      >We need more than just electricity when the sun shines.
      >We need transportation, and plant photosynthesis is just not efficient
      >enough to drive that alone. I think.

      I'm glad there is still a tiny bit of doubt in that last statement Fred.

      Your mention of the Photosynthesis process , along with all the
      other useful things that tree's , plants , & other biological entities
      can do for us has always intrigued me.

      Apart from Liquid Crystal Displays displays , are there any other
      electronic parts used today that incorporate a biological component
      of any sort in them ?

      >
      >So the question, can you make this very artificial "plant" produce fuel at
      >a lower "cost" than plants can be made to. Where cost is maintenance,
      >square feet of land, initial capital costs, etc.

      Well to keep it as simple as possible , why not try to engineer &
      incorporate Hemp into a usable bio-electrical device that lowers
      the number of times energy is transferred from one form to another.
      If we can actually build something new & bio electrical in nature
      , we could completely alter the way energy is produced &
      transferred from one for into another.

      I use Hemp as an example because it has a proven
      historical track record to quickly & cheaply deliver
      whatever "goods" are needed in times of crisis.
      Unfortunately when the crisis passes , Hemp gets
      locked away & the toxic industries it replaced all
      get started back up again.

      I doubt that anyone has done any serious research into
      engineering this very plant into something that has inductive
      , capacitive & resistive qualities , it should be able to meet
      one or two of these electrical requirements , it can be trained
      to grow like a vine , into a coil form or whatever other form
      may be needed....
      I have no real idea of the startup costs & what it's eventual
      output per square ft would be. You would need to fund
      a few genetic & electrical engineers + assistants to work
      a simple lab , built up on a ~5 acre property for 3 years to
      see where the results were headed.

      Hemp is a _very_ adaptable plant , it gets a bad rap today
      because people only engineer it to produce excessive amounts
      of psychoactive material to sell on the black market.

      Hemp is the same threat to the Cotton & Paper industries that
      any Alternative fuels are to the Oil industries , hang on you can
      get a combustible oil out of Hemp as well , so Hemp is probably
      a threat to most existing big industries.

      BTW I have not been suffering from the effects of "reefer madness"
      for well over a decade , thinking well outside of the box has always
      been part of my way. :)


      JB
    • McGalliard, Frederick B
      Jet. I think there is a place for the plants in this. They may be more practical, less costly, at extracting CO2 from the air. But regards energy, they are
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 30, 2007
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        Jet. I think there is a place for the plants in this. They may be more practical, less costly, at extracting CO2 from the air. But regards energy, they are very inefficient, from our view, because they use so much of the energy they get to live. A machine, not being alive anyway, is free to concentrate on making energy for us. If we could engineer a system of plants to optimize the energy available to us, the system might be competitive, but I was not impressed by the corn/yeast/alcohol model, so perhaps that has prejudiced me.


        From: Jet Black [mailto:derringer@...]  
         
        ...

         Well to keep it as simple as possible , why not try to engineer &
        incorporate Hemp into a usable bio-electrical device that lowers
        the number of times energy is transferred from one form to another.
        If we can actually build something new & bio electrical in nature
        , we could completely alter the way energy is produced &
        transferred from one for into another 

      • Codesuidae
        I agree regarding plants. For fuel production algae is probably the way to go. There are strains of crop algae that can be pressed to produce a light oil that
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 31, 2007
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          I agree regarding plants. For fuel production algae is probably the way
          to go. There are strains of crop algae that can be pressed to produce a
          light oil that can directly replace diesel. Of course, as with all
          biodiesels, we have not yet worked out the procedures for large-scale
          storage and transportation (additives and processes to keep it from
          degrading, clogging machinery, etc), but these are not hard problems.

          The biggest problem is that the scale of the demand for fuel is based on
          the ideal of cheap, practically unlimited availability rather than the
          more expensive farmed resources.

          I've also been keeping an eye on artificial photosynthesis. There is
          some promising work with new compounds that are fairly good at pulling
          CO2 molecules apart, but this is all lab research, very unlikely to be
          commercially viable inside 10 years.

          McGalliard, Frederick B wrote:
          > Jet. I think there is a place for the plants in this. They may be more
          > practical, less costly, at extracting CO2 from the air. But regards
          > energy, they are very inefficient, from our view, because they use so
          > much of the energy they get to live. A machine, not being alive
          > anyway, is free to concentrate on making energy for us. If we could
          > engineer a system of plants to optimize the energy available to us,
          > the system might be competitive, but I was not impressed by the
          > corn/yeast/alcohol model, so perhaps that has prejudiced me.
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > *From:* Jet Black [mailto:derringer@...]
          >
          > ...
          >
          > Well to keep it as simple as possible , why not try to engineer &
          > incorporate Hemp into a usable bio-electrical device that lowers
          > the number of times energy is transferred from one form to another.
          > If we can actually build something new & bio electrical in nature
          > , we could completely alter the way energy is produced &
          > transferred from one for into another
          >
          >
        • macworks@bespiritdriven.com
          To all those looking for a new clean fuel....check out syngas at Evergreen Pulp Inc.... Codesuidae wrote: I agree
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 1, 2007
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            To all those looking for a new "clean" fuel....check out syngas at Evergreen Pulp Inc....

            Codesuidae <codesuidae@...> wrote:
            I agree regarding plants. For fuel production algae is probably the way
            to go. There are strains of crop algae that can be pressed to produce a
            light oil that can directly replace diesel. Of course, as with all
            biodiesels, we have not yet worked out the procedures for large-scale
            storage and transportation (additives and processes to keep it from
            degrading, clogging machinery, etc), but these are not hard problems.

            The biggest problem is that the scale of the demand for fuel is based on
            the ideal of cheap, practically unlimited availability rather than the
            more expensive farmed resources.

            I've also been keeping an eye on artificial photosynthesis. There is
            some promising work with new compounds that are fairly good at pulling
            CO2 molecules apart, but this is all lab research, very unlikely to be
            commercially viable inside 10 years.

            McGalliard, Frederick B wrote:
            > Jet. I think there is a place for the plants in this. They may be more
            > practical, less costly, at extracting CO2 from the air. But regards
            > energy, they are very inefficient, from our view, because they use so
            > much of the energy they get to live. A machine, not being alive
            > anyway, is free to concentrate on making energy for us. If we could
            > engineer a system of plants to optimize the energy available to us,
            > the system might be competitive, but I was not impressed by the
            > corn/yeast/alcohol model, so perhaps that has prejudiced me.
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
            > *From:* Jet Black [mailto:derringer@optusnet. com.au]
            >
            > ...
            >
            > Well to keep it as simple as possible , why not try to engineer &
            > incorporate Hemp into a usable bio-electrical device that lowers
            > the number of times energy is transferred from one form to another.
            > If we can actually build something new & bio electrical in nature
            > , we could completely alter the way energy is produced &
            > transferred from one for into another
            >
            >




            michaelangelsiam
            "changing the world one glance at a time" 
                      www.bespiritdriven.com
             
            LOVE THE ONE, YOU  ~ BE SPIRIT DRIVEN
            .
             
          • Jet Black
            ... I am not looking or thinking about using the corn/yeast/alcohol model for production of a useable energy source. That model/method has been essentially
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 1, 2007
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              At 08:52 AM 3/30/2007 -0700, you wrote:
              >Jet. I think there is a place for the plants in this. They may be more
              >practical, less costly, at extracting CO2 from the air. But regards
              >energy, they are very inefficient, from our view, because they use so much
              >of the energy they get to live. A machine, not being alive anyway, is free
              >to concentrate on making energy for us. If we could engineer a system of
              >plants to optimize the energy available to us, the system might be
              >competitive, but I was not impressed by the corn/yeast/alcohol model, so
              >perhaps that has prejudiced me.


              I am not looking or thinking about using the corn/yeast/alcohol model for
              production of a useable energy source.
              That model/method has been essentially refined to as good as it gets already.

              I am not advocating passive farming of the crop , you can farm off the crop
              whilst it is growing.
              The amount of IR radiation that a plant like Hemp gives off during it's
              vegative & flowering
              stages is phenomenal , you can use that energy before you harvest the crop.
              Use the IR
              radiation to boil water & get an elastic energy supply like Steam.
              The Steam can then be used to extract essential oils & materials from a
              previously harvested crop
              , re-use the Steam to help process the pulp or whatever. This is active
              farming , where you use
              & re use every output it gives to your advantage. A team with the right
              skills & mindset should be
              able to create a self sustainable system that incorporate's an an internal
              energy storage component
              into it as well. I am only scraping the tip of the iceberg , with these
              simple suggestions/guidelines.

              Trying to harvest power from a lake full of Electric Eels , would be a
              genuinely pointless exercise ,
              the idea of active farming has merit.


              JB




              >
              >----------
              >From: Jet Black [mailto:derringer@...]
              >
              >...
              >
              > Well to keep it as simple as possible , why not try to engineer &
              >incorporate Hemp into a usable bio-electrical device that lowers
              >the number of times energy is transferred from one form to another.
              >If we can actually build something new & bio electrical in nature
              >, we could completely alter the way energy is produced &
              >transferred from one for into another
              >
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