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Re: re [usa-tesla] Without motion is there time?

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  • lost clown
    Exactly Ed, That s the equivalent of the mag bearing equvalent of the point and jewel bearing. Vertically one attracting electromagnet with feedback, and an
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Exactly Ed,
      That's the equivalent of the mag bearing equvalent of
      the point and jewel bearing. Vertically one
      attracting electromagnet with feedback, and an
      unmagnetized ferous axle, nonvertically or no gravity
      uses two attracting electros, with feedback and
      crossover circuits. electros have high permeability
      flux concentrators (cone like ends) on the end of the
      core near the axle.
      That's been around for years and in use for a number
      of things, even a gymballed ball version for a
      precission gyro, but even what we can whip up from our
      junk boxes in a couple hours is too expensive for toy
      production.
      I've seen some, but they were $100 retail items.
      Probably could be made to retail for about $20 today,
      but doesn't look like antigravity because there's
      something above the levitated object.
      There's also a type based on the old h-f repulsion
      coil idea, but I've never seen one mass produced.
      Because of the way they work it would have to be a big
      kid's toy, tesla coil class. Think metal scrap
      seperator with feedback.
      Mike
      > The spin stabilization is necessary for the
      > levitron to work, and the actual weight of the top
      > is very critical too. The required weight is a
      > function of the field of the base magnet and in
      > order to get my tops to run for a long time it was
      > necessary for me to temperature the control that
      > magnet using a wire heater wrapped around it and a
      > thermistor glued to the magnet to sense temperature;
      > the whole arrangement was insolated with glass wool.
      > When playing with bare ferrite magnet (RS cheapie
      > rings) I found that just handling the magnets could
      > warm them enough to change the required balance
      > weight (gets less as field becomes weaker). Very
      > very touchy. For useful levitation a feedback
      > scheme is essential.
      >
      > For a good description of how the levitron works go
      > to Marty Simon's web page:
      >
      >
      >
      http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:jBg6wMP-wigJ:www.physics.ucla.edu/marty/levitron/+levitron+%22martin+simon%22&hl=en
      >
      > His co-author Lee Heflinger is a friend of mine and
      > the guy that got me hooked on building the tops.
      >
      > Ed
      >
      >


      "The sum total of human intelligence is a constant.
      The population is rising!"
      My Grandmother's favorite saying





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    • jim farrer
      Glacio, I believe mystical speculation is your term. So I don t know if Einstein liked it. Is any new theory mystical speculation to you? Do you like
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2005
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        Glacio, I believe "mystical speculation" is your term.  So I don't know if Einstein''liked it.'' 
         
        Is any new theory "mystical speculation" to you?
        Do you like and accept the present Big Bang theory, with all of its shortcomings?
         
        Would you be interested in a theory which solved these problems, enough to read Sternglass' book?
         
        If not, then are you satisfied with the present status of why we have such a shortage of positrons in the universe?
         
        Would you NOW be interested in Sternglass' book, in which he finds (it seems to me) our universe to be about 1/2 electrons and 1/2 positrons?  [Thus no shortage of positrons to be accounted for.]
         
        His proton consists of 8 electron/positron pairs placed at the corners of a cube, and a positron at the center.  The orbits of the particles are described, and the central positron is key to holding the proton together. 
         
        His neutron has no center particle.  Thus, the 'glue' is not as good, which explains the short half life of an unattached - free -  neutron.
        He thus does away with the  [to use your term] mystical speculation origin of the presently accepted +1/3 and -2/3 charges on the mythical quarks.
         
        We might conclude that Sternglas has a 'bit' more scientific capabliity than the average sceince fiction  (fiction science) writer:
         
        "Sternglass was born in Berlin in 1923.  He was head of the Apollo Lunar Scientific Program of Westinghouse Research Laboratories from 1960 to 1967.     ...   He holds 13 patents in the areas of electronic imaging systems for nuclear medicine and astronomy."
         
        Jim Farrer
         
        P.S. Tesla would have LOVED this man:  Sternglass deeply believes in the aether concept.
         
         

        Glacio Sapiens <glacio_sapiens@...> wrote:
        Did Professor Sternglass really say Einstein liked mystical speculation as a "theory" on how the universe began?

        Glacio

        jim farrer <jfarrer@...> wrote:
        Reply to my own reply:
        Ahhhhh, but there IS motion during this alleged trillion year period between the 'time' the two particles were genrated, until they became aware of each other:
        Motion?   Why of course, their expanding electrical and gravitational fields!
         
        Jim Farrer
         

        jim farrer <jfarrer@...> wrote:
        I refer to the book I've m entioned before, "Before the Big Bang," by Ernest J. Sternglass.  He's 82,  world renowned physicist and cosmologist, and spoke at length with Einstein on this subject.  Einstein liked it.
         
        In his treatise, before the big bang came about, when the universe was totally empty, there came into being a single electron and a single positron, rotating around eache other at Extremely Near the speed of light.  Thus,  this pair of lightest known particles contained the mass of the entire future universe.  Then, by some process of "cell division,"  they split into two pairs, each containing half the mass of the universe.  This cell division continued some 250 times before "cooling" enought to permit the formation of protons and neutrons.  It is mostly finished, but still contnuing (explaining some mysterious events seen by astronomers.
         
        Now, back to time.   Sternglass does not say preceisely how these two particles came into existence.
         
        Suppose the electron came into existence at one extreme corner of the universe, and the positron came into existence at the extreme opposite coner.
         
        What happens?  
         
        Simple.  They attract each other, and come together eventually; VERY eventually.
        Say they are 1 trillion light years apart.  so, for 1 trillion years, nol motion takes place becase each particle is unaware of the other.
         
        ONE TRILLION years!  No motion.  But time must surely exist.
         
        Jim Farrer
         


        lost clown <alostclown@...> wrote:
        Jim,
        Good point.

        And, at least in this physical reality, the approach
        to absolute zero, or any other limit is asymptopic.
        No matter how hard you try, you can't get there from
        here, just closer and closer, like reaching the speed
        of light.

        I think that time would exist, if only as a potential
        entropic gradient. The assumption of time (even though
        what it is may be hard to define except in terms of
        motion) is necessary for all working models of the
        physical universe that I am aware of, regardless of
        the number of assumed dimensions.

        The only place where time would not exist would be in
        a system with absolutely no energy in any form,
        including the potential energy in matter (e=mc2), and
        that takes it way out of the realm of the physical and
        into other (philosophical, metaphysical) areas of
        speculation.  Not that I avoid those areas, but we
        need to define the direction of the question too.  :-)

        Maybe we should split this discussion into two
        different threads-- physical reality (including
        quantum, string and relativistic)Could we find a model
        without time that would reflect what can be
        observed?-- AND everything else.  Both should be
        interesting and productive.  Not to mention avoiding
        confusion.

        Mike

        --- jim farrer <jfarrer@...> wrote:

        > "If there is no physical motion or activity, can
        > there be any mental activity?"

        > 1st, I'll define "mental Activity" as respcet to the
        > human brain.  [You may differ.]
        > When there is no physical motion, the object whose
        > temperature is being measured, is at absolute zero.
        > Human brains don't work at that temperature.

        > Jim Farrer
        >

        "The sum total of human intelligence is a constant.
        The population is rising!"
        My Grandmother's favorite saying




             
                   
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      • Nikola Tesla
        The mind is an interesting thing - does it need all that listed below to create a thought? To make an analogy one could say the earth goes around the sun
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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          The mind is an interesting thing - does it need all that listed below to create a thought?
           
          To make an analogy one could say the earth goes around the sun because there are people on it.
           
          Going back to the original question - motion & time - Science defines motion as a function of time, acceleration and velocity both have the element of time as their base unit.  Can you have motion without time? -no, at least not how we have defined motion - if this changes in the future then possibly.  Can you have time without motion? -also no as we always pick some natural cyclical example to define time, either from a spin of an atom to the cycle of a planet or star.  We have defined Motion & Time to be a circular definition.  Einstien has made each relative, but has not removed one from the other.
           


          "McGalliard, Frederick B" <frederick.b.mcgalliard@...> wrote:
           


          From: jim farrer [mailto:jfarrer@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:10 PM
          To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: re [usa-tesla] Without motion is there time?

          "If there is no physical motion or activity, can there be any mental activity?"
           
          1st, I'll define "mental Activity" as respcet to the human brain.  [You may differ.]
          When there is no physical motion, the object whose temperature is being measured, is at absolute zero.  Human brains don't work at that temperature. 
           
          They also don't work without 
          blood pumping
          protien senthesis
          some kind of electrochemical process in the nerves
          and probably a lot of stuff we don't yet know about. 


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        • James Moore
          For those of you who may be interested in Electrogravitation check out this site that I ran across the other day. Has a free ebook link at the site... I am not
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 2, 2005
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            For those of you who may be interested in Electrogravitation check out this
            site
            that I ran across the other day. Has a free ebook link at the site... I am
            not literate
            enough to understand much of what is presented, however those of you with a
            physics
            background may be able to comment on the theory there at some point in the
            future.

            http://www.greenglow.co.uk/

            Sorry for my overall lack of participation in the list for a while, but I
            have a lot of interference
            that is occupying my spare time. Hope someone gets something from this
            site. Hope this
            is a happy and fulfilling holiday season for all the list members.

            JPM
          • Glacio Sapiens
            In our part of the universe, the mind requires nothing whatsoever, ie no brain at all, to create a thought. Glacio people are purely psycho when it comes to
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 3, 2005
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              In our part of the universe, the mind requires nothing whatsoever, ie no brain at all, to create a thought.

              Glacio people are purely "psycho" when it comes to a psycho-physics formulation. We send our brainless missionaries all over the universe to preach to those who are mindless.

              Guru Glacio
              <http://www.geocities.com/Glacio_Sapiens>

              Nikola Tesla <ntesla27@...> wrote:
              The mind is an interesting thing - does it need all that listed below to create a thought?
               
              To make an analogy one could say the earth goes around the sun because there are people on it.
               
              Going back to the original question - motion & time - Science defines motion as a function of time, acceleration and velocity both have the element of time as their base unit.  Can you have motion without time? -no, at least not how we have defined motion - if this changes in the future then possibly.  Can you have time without motion? -also no as we always pick some natural cyclical example to define time, either from a spin of an atom to the cycle of a planet or star.  We have defined Motion & Time to be a circular definition.  Einstien has made each relative, but has not removed one from the other.
               


              "McGalliard, Frederick B" <frederick.b.mcgalliard@...> wrote:
               


              From: jim farrer [mailto:jfarrer@...]
              Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:10 PM
              To: usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: re [usa-tesla] Without motion is there time?

              "If there is no physical motion or activity, can there be any mental activity?"
               
              1st, I'll define "mental Activity" as respcet to the human brain.  [You may differ.]
              When there is no physical motion, the object whose temperature is being measured, is at absolute zero.  Human brains don't work at that temperature. 
               
              They also don't work without 
              blood pumping
              protien senthesis
              some kind of electrochemical process in the nerves
              and probably a lot of stuff we don't yet know about. 


              Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
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