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Re: Tesla spark gap experiment- anyone try this?

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  • Derek
    Bert and all, Thanks for your post Bert. The spark gap experiments are described in a file I have uploaded to the group file storage area entitle,
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 2, 2004
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      Bert and all,

      Thanks for your post Bert.

      The spark gap experiments are described in a file I have uploaded to
      the group file storage area entitle, "Tesla_LongitudinalWaves.pdf."
      This paper begins describing Tesla's work on page 2 column 2, after
      the introductory remarks re other inventors. This paper seems to be a
      condensed version of Chapter 4 of Vassilatos' book, "Lost Science,"
      which is extremely interesting in itself. Vassilatos' chapter was
      apparently based on a transcript of a lecture Tesla gave to the Royal
      Society.

      Tesla apparently had the same thoughts as you, ie that the pressure
      wave could be due to air (sound) waves. However, the ability of the
      waves to penetrate matter is what later convinced him otherwise; this
      is elaborated on in the .pdf file.

      One of the differences between the experiment you conducted as you
      described and Tesla's experiment is that Tesla's discharge was
      intentionally designed to be unidirectional, so that ringing was kept
      to a minimum. Perhaps this why you have not personally noticed these
      shock waves? Or perhaps you have, but you are interpreting them as
      sound waves.

      I am interested in investigating these "shock waves" reported by
      Tesla; it is quite a remarkable phenomenon, if it is real. I would
      have thought that Tesla coil builders would have noticed this effect
      by now. After all, a Tesla coil gives a series of big voltage pulses.
      Any coilers out there notice this effect?

      Let me now digress slightly. Tesla originally became curious about
      these discharge effects while observing overvoltage effects during
      dynamo switching (described in the .pdf paper). The overvoltage is
      presumably due to "bunching" of the charge as it travels down the
      conductor, so that the local charge density, hence voltage, is higher.

      I went to your website and noticed you had mentioned the longitudinal
      shattering of conductors when subjected to HV discharge. As you
      pointed out, this effect has been noted before by Graneau (eg,
      in "Newtonian Electrodynamics").

      I think there is a connection between the charge bunching associated
      with the overvoltage of Tesla and the longitudinal wire shattering.
      If at the charge wave front on the conductor, there exists a big
      gradient in the electron charge density, this will induce a stress on
      the ionic lattice of the conductor. If the gradient and hence stress
      is big enough, the wire will shatter.

      As references on your website point out, Graneau and others have
      trumpeted Ampere's original force law as a possible explanation for
      the longitudinal shattering. Ampere's law is different from Maxwell
      theory for unclosed/transient circuits, but corresponds with the
      Maxwell theory for all closed/steady state currents.

      Ampere's law may indeed explain this shattering effect. However, it
      is my personal guess at this point that the force law posited by
      Aspden in his book, "Physics Unified," Chapter 1, may be offer a more
      correct explanation. One reason for this is that Aspden's law is
      capable of making the distinction between forces on the lattice and
      forces on the electrons.

      Subjectively speaking, one additional factor in favor of Aspden is
      that is that Aspden's law might account better for the qualitatively
      strange behavior of closed circuits in which part of the circuit is
      copper, and part in Mercury. Ampere's law corresponds to Maxwell
      therory b/c the circuit is closed. It seems as though they both are
      unable to account for the behavior of Mercury, while Aspden's law
      predicts new physics when mass of the charge carriers is different
      around a closed circuit (as with Mercury).

      Thanks for the link re Bose; indeed it looks as though he was way
      ahead of his time!

      Thanks and best regards,

      Derek


      --- In usa-tesla@yahoogroups.com, Bert Hickman <bert.hickman@a...>
      wrote:
      > Derek and all,
      >
      > I'm not familiar with the specifics of this experiment. Was this
      > experiment described in one of the books/articles written by Tesla,
      or
      > was it described (2nd or 3rd hand) in a more modern work?
      >
      > As David mentioned, I use a high voltage capacitor bank to shrink
      > coins. And, at 6300 Joules and 10+ kV, the discharge really does
      make
      > quite a loud bang. However, it is considerably muffled by the use
      of a
      > Lexan and aluminum blast shield, and I've never felt any physical
      > effects/pressure. However, because of the large capacitance (140
      uF)
      > and the large lumped inductance in the work coil (~2 uH), the rise
      > time of the current is comparatively long. The capacitance in my
      > system is probably considerably larger than any capacitor bank that
      > Tesla used, so I'm probably not coming close to recreating the
      > conditions in Tesla's experiment. A small, low inductance, much
      higher
      > voltage capacitor discharging into a low inductance circuit would
      > likely be closer.
      >
      > A high energy capacitor discharge will sound (and behave) like a
      small
      > explosion. The resulting sound impulse might be sensed as a
      pressure
      > wave if the discharge was sufficiently intense. This would be
      similar
      > to the way you can feel the pressure waves from nearby top fuel
      > dragsters as the explosion of noise hits your body cavity. Also, a
      > small high voltage capacitor discharged into to a small inductance
      can
      > generate incredibly high frequency transients. In fact, it's
      possible
      > to generate ultra high frequency and microwave radiation using
      simple
      > spark gap oscillators! Pioneering radio and microwave research was
      > conducted by one of Tesla's contemporaries - Jagadis Chandra Bose
      in
      > India - during the mid 1880's and 1890's. Bose's spark gap
      microwave
      > radiators were capable of generating 60 GHz(!) microwave radiation.
      > See the following URL for more information:
      > http://www.tuc.nrao.edu/%7Edemerson/bose/bose.html
      >
      > It may be possible that Tesla performed similar experiments using a
      HV
      > capacitor and spark gap. If so, it's quite possible that he also
      > experienced the thermal effects of the high frequency/microwave
      > radiation.
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > -- Bert --
      > --
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      > We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by Ultrastrong Fields,
      > Lichtenberg Figures (electrical discharges in acrylic), & Scarce OOP
      > Technical Books. Stoneridge Engineering -- http://www.teslamania.com
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > David Thomson wrote:
      >
      > > Hi Derek,
      > >
      > >
      > >>Tesla performed an experiment in which he discharged a high
      voltage
      > >>capacitor across an air gap. Upon discharge, he noticed a physical
      > >>pressure wave upon his body, which surprisingly was able to
      penetrate
      > >>both a copper and glass shield. He also noticed that if the
      duration
      > >>of the impulse discharge was small enough, the physical pressure
      wave
      > >>then manifested as a type of warming radiation.
      > >>
      > >>Is there anyone out there who has performed this type of
      experiment
      > >>and/or studied this type of effect? I'm interested in it, and
      would
      > >>like to know the voltage, details of the apparatus used, and
      findings.
      > >
      > >
      > > Bert Hickman should be able to provide a definitive answer to
      your inquiry.
      > > He works with this type of setup with his quarter shrinker.
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > .
      > >
    • Riversong Education
      This experiment was eventually refined into what was once a popular medical device known as Violet Ray . You can still find some suppliers for it. It s a
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 5, 2004
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        This experiment was eventually refined into what was once a popular
        medical device known as "Violet Ray". You can still find some suppliers
        for it. It's a simple Tesla coil with a glass bulb on the end. Several
        designs of bulbs were developed, but these days just one with a round
        end is usually used.

        I have owned one since 1988. Here are a few things that have happened:

        When used on a terminal Parkinson's Disease patient, he became lucid for
        a few days afterwards.

        When used on a dog with a cyst in his neck, the cyst disappeared within
        three days.

        When used on a woman suffering from dizziness and disorientation, she
        got worse for about a half hour, and then improved suddenly.

        On several occasions it has relieved liver distress symptoms.

        When used on a woman with a cyst in her ankle, the cyst disappeared
        within two days.

        Generally we use it a couple of times a month on average in our family.

        On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 03:13 PM, Derek wrote:

        > Tesla performed an experiment in which he discharged a high voltage
        > capacitor across an air gap. Upon discharge, he noticed a physical
        > pressure wave upon his body, which surprisingly was able to penetrate
        > both a copper and glass shield. He also noticed that if the duration
        > of the impulse discharge was small enough, the physical pressure wave
        > then manifested as a type of warming ratiation.
        >
        > Is there anyone out there who has performed this type of experiment
        > and/or studied this type of effect? I'm interested in it, and would
        > like to know the voltage, details of the apparatus used, and findings.
        >
        > Thanks.
        > Derek
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Michael Riversong
        http://www.hippiehebraic.com/michaelriversong.html
        Free Celtic harp and other gentle MP3s and radical ideas about music and
        culture
      • Jet Black
        ... http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/uv.htm There s a few Violet Ray generators on the above link , is yours
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 6, 2004
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          >This experiment was eventually refined into what was once a popular
          >medical device known as "Violet Ray". You can still find some suppliers
          >for it. It's a simple Tesla coil with a glass bulb on the end. Several
          >designs of bulbs were developed, but these days just one with a round
          >end is usually used.

          http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/uv.htm
          <more than a few interesting other links here>

          There's a few Violet Ray generators on the above link , is yours there ?
          Or perhaps JPM might recognise the device he has in his attic.......


          JB
        • Riversong Education
          Yup, that s pretty much what i have -- but i got a more basic model, without a case, and only one glass bulb. Works fine. Using Violet Rays is definitely an
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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            Yup, that's pretty much what i have -- but i got a more basic model,
            without a case, and only one glass bulb. Works fine.

            Using Violet Rays is definitely an art, not a science. I can report
            some good results with it, but thinking back, there were some times when
            it didn't have any effect. That's about the worst that happened. I
            haven't seen any real harm come from using them, although it is possible
            to get radio burns on the skin if you jerk the bulb away suddenly while
            running. Why anyone would do that i don't know but back in 1990 at a
            conference i saw an insane lady doing just that, literally pounding the
            bulb up and down on some poor guy's back -- my friend and i watching her
            do this were so astounded, it took a minute for us to move. We of
            course stopped her, and she got very mad at us -- she didn't speak to me
            for two years after that.

            When working with animals, reactions have been interesting. Sometimes
            the cat or dog won't have anything to do with it, and other times they
            will crave it and get upset when i stop.

            Overall, i don't think anyone should make claims when selling these. If
            a person is attracted to the tool, that's great, and it can be made to
            work. But if someone feels antagonistic to the thing, then by all means
            it should not be used.

            On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 10:43 PM, Jet Black wrote:

            >
            >> This experiment was eventually refined into what was once a popular
            >> medical device known as "Violet Ray". You can still find some
            >> suppliers
            >> for it. It's a simple Tesla coil with a glass bulb on the end.
            >> Several
            >> designs of bulbs were developed, but these days just one with a round
            >> end is usually used.
            >
            > http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/uv.htm
            > <more than a few interesting other links here>
            >
            > There's a few Violet Ray generators on the above link , is yours
            > there ?
            > Or perhaps JPM might recognise the device he has in his attic.......
            >
            >
            > JB
            >
            >
            Michael Riversong
            http://www.hippiehebraic.com/michaelriversong.html
            Free Celtic harp and other gentle MP3s and radical ideas about music and
            culture
          • James Moore
            Don t know whether this will make it to the Tesla list so I am CC to you, MR. I have one of these violet ray things in the original case with four or five
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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              Don't know whether this will make it to the Tesla list so I am CC to you, MR.

              I have one of these violet ray things in the original case with four or five
              attachments in various shapes. The coil didn't seem to work though...
              think it may have a bad cap or something. I thought about trying to get
              it fixed, but don't know who to take it to for such repair. It seems to be
              quite old... maybe from the 30s-30s? Got it in with some of my dad's
              stuff after he died in 1984... The tubes are good, because I held them
              up to a Eye of the Storm Tesla plasma globe, and they lit up with a
              purple glow, so they haven't developed leaks. I haven't seen this stuff
              for a while... it is probably piled in the garage under a mound of debris.
              I am only getting sparatic posts from the list so I don't know what is wrong.

              JPM

              At 05:40 AM 4/9/04 -0600, you wrote:
              Yup, that's pretty much what i have -- but i got a more basic model,
              without a case, and only one glass bulb.  Works fine.

              Using Violet Rays is definitely an art, not a science.  I can report
              some good results with it, but thinking back, there were some times when
              it didn't have any effect.  That's about the worst that happened.  I
              haven't seen any real harm come from using them, although it is possible
              to get radio burns on the skin if you jerk the bulb away suddenly while
              running.  Why anyone would do that i don't know but back in 1990 at a
              conference i saw an insane lady doing just that, literally pounding the
              bulb up and down on some poor guy's back -- my friend and i watching her
              do this were so astounded, it took a minute for us to move.  We of
              course stopped her, and she got very mad at us -- she didn't speak to me
              for two years after that.

              When working with animals, reactions have been interesting.  Sometimes
              the cat or dog won't have anything to do with it, and other times they
              will crave it and get upset when i stop.

              Overall, i don't think anyone should make claims when selling these.  If
              a person is attracted to the tool, that's great, and it can be made to
              work.  But if someone feels antagonistic to the thing, then by all means
              it should not be used.

              On Tuesday, April 6, 2004, at 10:43 PM, Jet Black wrote:

              >
              >> This experiment was eventually refined into what was once a popular
              >> medical device known as "Violet Ray".  You can still find some
              >> suppliers
              >> for it.  It's a simple Tesla coil with a glass bulb on the end. 
              >> Several
              >> designs of bulbs were developed, but these days just one with a round
              >> end is usually used.
              >
              > http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/uv.htm
              > <more than a few interesting other links here>
              >
              > There's a few Violet Ray  generators on the above link , is yours
              > there ?
              > Or perhaps JPM might recognise the device he has in his attic.......
              >
              >
              > JB
              >
              >
              Michael Riversong
              http://www.hippiehebraic.com/michaelriversong.html
              Free Celtic harp and other gentle MP3s and radical ideas about music and
              culture


              "Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
                           --David Guy Powers--


            • Ed Phillips
              Don t know whether this will make it to the Tesla list so I am CC to you, MR. I have one of these violet ray things in the original case with four or five
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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                "Don't know whether this will make it to the Tesla list so I am CC to
                you, MR.

                I have one of these violet ray things in the original case with four or
                five
                attachments in various shapes. The coil didn't seem to work though...
                think it may have a bad cap or something. I thought about trying to get
                it fixed, but don't know who to take it to for such repair. It seems to
                be
                quite old... maybe from the 30s-30s? Got it in with some of my dad's
                stuff after he died in 1984... The tubes are good, because I held them
                up to a Eye of the Storm Tesla plasma globe, and they lit up with a
                purple glow, so they haven't developed leaks. I haven't seen this stuff
                for a while... it is probably piled in the garage under a mound of
                debris.
                I am only getting sparatic posts from the list so I don't know what is
                wrong.

                JPM"

                Those things have been around for far longer than that, probably at
                least since the 1890's and maybe even earlier. I think they had gone
                out of style by WW2. As for the coil, what happens when you try to run
                it. I assume it's intended for 110V AC power. If it doesn't buzz
                cleaning or adjustment of the contact may be all it takes. I have a
                couple here which worked when picked up at swap meets and they were both
                working when I got them.

                Ed
              • James Moore
                Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once again. Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of 20s-30s. I think
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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                  Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once again.
                  Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of 20s-30s.
                  I think that it originally buzzed when I plugged it in, but then stopped but
                  made no stink or smell when it quit. I opened the base up and it had a set
                  of points and a capacitor attached to the coil, if I remember right. I figured
                  the cap went bad, or something like that... that wouldn't have made a smell
                  if it went bad. Could just be a loose connection inside somewhere. I would
                  like to get it fixed if I can find it. Have any suggestion on where to take it?
                  Thanks Ed or any other list member, for any advice of suggestions on related
                  to the possibility of getting it fixed. Thanks...

                  JPM

                  At 07:00 PM 4/9/04 -0700, you wrote:
                  "Don't know whether this will make it to the Tesla list so I am CC to
                  you, MR.

                  I have one of these violet ray things in the original case with four or
                  five
                  attachments in various shapes. The coil didn't seem to work though...
                  think it may have a bad cap or something. I thought about trying to get
                  it fixed, but don't know who to take it to for such repair. It seems to
                  be
                  quite old... maybe from the 30s-30s? Got it in with some of my dad's
                  stuff after he died in 1984... The tubes are good, because I held them
                  up to a Eye of the Storm Tesla plasma globe, and they lit up with a
                  purple glow, so they haven't developed leaks. I haven't seen this stuff
                  for a while... it is probably piled in the garage under a mound of
                  debris.
                  I am only getting sparatic posts from the list so I don't know what is
                  wrong.

                  JPM"

                           Those things have been around for far longer than that, probably at
                  least since the 1890's and maybe even earlier.  I think they had gone
                  out of style by WW2.  As for the coil, what happens when you try to run
                  it.  I assume it's intended for  110V AC power.  If it doesn't buzz
                  cleaning or adjustment of the contact may be all it takes.  I have a
                  couple here which worked when picked up at swap meets and they were both
                  working when I got them.

                  Ed


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                  "Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
                               --David Guy Powers--


                • David Thomson
                  Hi James, Try cleaning the contacts with fine sandpaper. Also check the gap to see if it looks right. I cleaned up my old unit and adjusted the spark gap and
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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                    Hi James,
                     
                    Try cleaning the contacts with fine sandpaper.  Also check the gap to see if it looks right.  I cleaned up my old unit and adjusted the spark gap and it worked great afterward.  Mine doesn't have a capacitor, though.  It is entirely a coil and spark gap circuit.
                     
                    Dave
                  • James Moore
                    I may be wrong about having a cap... it has been a long time since I have seen it. My house has been burglarized three times since the last time I saw it, so
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
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                      I may be wrong about having a cap... it has been a long time since I have seen it.
                      My house has been burglarized three times since the last time I saw it, so there
                      is a chance that I don't even have it any more. If I can remember to look tomorrow
                      for it, I might find it if I still have it. I do have burglar bars completely around my
                      house now, so I should be able to keep what I still have, at this point, unless the
                      idiots get angry about not being able to rip me off while on vacation and just torch
                      the place... that is my worst fear now... because I think that the little criminals live
                      right next door to me. Sad affair... one of my best friends on the north and what has
                      turned out to be my worst enemies on the south side. Time will tell if they will attempt
                      any malicious Vandalism or retaliation for my trying my best to keep them out.

                      JPM

                      At 10:41 PM 4/9/04 -0500, you wrote:
                      Hi James,
                       
                      Try cleaning the contacts with fine sandpaper.  Also check the gap to see if it looks right.  I cleaned up my old unit and adjusted the spark gap and it worked great afterward.  Mine doesn't have a capacitor, though.  It is entirely a coil and spark gap circuit.
                       
                      Dave


                      "Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
                                   --David Guy Powers--


                    • Ed Phillips
                      Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once again. Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of 20s-30s. I think
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once
                        again.
                        Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of
                        20s-30s.
                        I think that it originally buzzed when I plugged it in, but then stopped
                        but
                        made no stink or smell when it quit. I opened the base up and it had a
                        set
                        of points and a capacitor attached to the coil, if I remember right. I
                        figured
                        the cap went bad, or something like that... that wouldn't have made a
                        smell
                        if it went bad. Could just be a loose connection inside somewhere. I
                        would
                        like to get it fixed if I can find it. Have any suggestion on where to
                        take it?
                        Thanks Ed or any other list member, for any advice of suggestions on
                        related
                        to the possibility of getting it fixed. Thanks...

                        JPM

                        If I were you I'd take a look at the points and see if they're
                        touching. If they are and nothing happens I'd try cleaning them with a
                        bit of very fine sandpaper, then hold them together with a piece of
                        paper between them, then pull the paper out to finish cleaning, then try
                        power again. The points are usually adjustable with a screw and if it
                        doesn't buzz I'd try moving them together slightly and see if that
                        helps. If the capacitor across the points had shorted I'd expect that
                        you'd have gotten "a smell". You could also check the continuity
                        between the sides of the line cord with an ohmmeter and see what the
                        resistance is. I'd expect it to be somewhere between 20 and 200 ohms,
                        depending on the size of the wire on the primary winding.

                        If all of that doesn't get you anywhere then I'd inspect carefully for
                        loose wires or corrosion on wires where they're connected. On some old
                        stuff the parts were mounted on a board and over the years the board has
                        shrunk enough that screwed connections become loose.

                        If I had the thing here I could tell you in a few minutes whether it's
                        repairable and probably fix it easily, but it would be a real pain for
                        you to pack it and ship it and then repack and return it. Local
                        solutions would be better [where are you?]. If the primary coil is open
                        things get a bit harder. I would think any competent appliance shop
                        could check it out, even though they'd never seen one. It is very much
                        like a big buzzer or spark coil (two slightly different configurations)
                        and should be easy to debug by a careful guy even if he hadn't seen one
                        before. Another thing you could try is to talk to a physics teacher in
                        a local high school and see if he could help or suggest someone who
                        could.


                        Nice toy when you get it working.

                        Ed
                      • Bert Hickman
                        James, If you do find it, you could send it to me and I ll try to fix it for you. It sounds like it may simply have corroded or misadjusted points. Best
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
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                          James,

                          If you do find it, you could send it to me and I'll try to fix it for
                          you. It sounds like it may simply have corroded or misadjusted points.

                          Best regards,

                          -- Bert --
                          --
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------
                          We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by Ultrastrong Fields,
                          Lichtenberg Figures (electrical discharges in acrylic), & Scarce OOP
                          Technical Books. Stoneridge Engineering -- http://www.teslamania.com
                          -------------------------------------------------------------------

                          Ed Phillips wrote:

                          > Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once
                          > again.
                          > Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of
                          > 20s-30s.
                          > I think that it originally buzzed when I plugged it in, but then stopped
                          > but
                          > made no stink or smell when it quit. I opened the base up and it had a
                          > set
                          > of points and a capacitor attached to the coil, if I remember right. I
                          > figured
                          > the cap went bad, or something like that... that wouldn't have made a
                          > smell
                          > if it went bad. Could just be a loose connection inside somewhere. I
                          > would
                          > like to get it fixed if I can find it. Have any suggestion on where to
                          > take it?
                          > Thanks Ed or any other list member, for any advice of suggestions on
                          > related
                          > to the possibility of getting it fixed. Thanks...
                          >
                          > JPM
                          >
                          > If I were you I'd take a look at the points and see if they're
                          > touching. If they are and nothing happens I'd try cleaning them with a
                          > bit of very fine sandpaper, then hold them together with a piece of
                          > paper between them, then pull the paper out to finish cleaning, then try
                          > power again. The points are usually adjustable with a screw and if it
                          > doesn't buzz I'd try moving them together slightly and see if that
                          > helps. If the capacitor across the points had shorted I'd expect that
                          > you'd have gotten "a smell". You could also check the continuity
                          > between the sides of the line cord with an ohmmeter and see what the
                          > resistance is. I'd expect it to be somewhere between 20 and 200 ohms,
                          > depending on the size of the wire on the primary winding.
                          >
                          > If all of that doesn't get you anywhere then I'd inspect carefully for
                          > loose wires or corrosion on wires where they're connected. On some old
                          > stuff the parts were mounted on a board and over the years the board has
                          > shrunk enough that screwed connections become loose.
                          >
                          > If I had the thing here I could tell you in a few minutes whether it's
                          > repairable and probably fix it easily, but it would be a real pain for
                          > you to pack it and ship it and then repack and return it. Local
                          > solutions would be better [where are you?]. If the primary coil is open
                          > things get a bit harder. I would think any competent appliance shop
                          > could check it out, even though they'd never seen one. It is very much
                          > like a big buzzer or spark coil (two slightly different configurations)
                          > and should be easy to debug by a careful guy even if he hadn't seen one
                          > before. Another thing you could try is to talk to a physics teacher in
                          > a local high school and see if he could help or suggest someone who
                          > could.
                          >
                          >
                          > Nice toy when you get it working.
                          >
                          > Ed
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > .
                          >
                        • James Moore
                          Good trouble shooting suggestions guys... hopefully it is still here somewhere. Thanks for the generous offer Bert... I will look for it this weekend, but I
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
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                            Good trouble shooting suggestions guys... hopefully it is still here somewhere.
                            Thanks for the generous offer Bert... I will look for it this weekend, but I have
                            a lot of ground to cover, and hopefully I can locate it... was in a nice black
                            wooden box, with velvet inside I think. Thanks for the suggestions....

                            JPM

                            At 09:51 AM 4/10/04 -0500, you wrote:
                            James,

                            If you do find it, you could send it to me and I'll try to fix it for
                            you. It sounds like it may simply have corroded or misadjusted points.

                            Best regards,

                            -- Bert --
                            --
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------
                            We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by Ultrastrong Fields,
                            Lichtenberg Figures (electrical discharges in acrylic), & Scarce OOP
                            Technical Books. Stoneridge Engineering -- http://www.teslamania.com
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Ed Phillips wrote:

                            > Ok.... Hi Ed, looks like I may be getting stuff from the list once
                            > again.
                            > Well from what you said, this kit might be early 1900s instead of
                            > 20s-30s.
                            > I think that it originally buzzed when I plugged it in, but then stopped
                            > but
                            > made no stink or smell when it quit. I opened the base up and it had a
                            > set
                            > of points and a capacitor attached to the coil, if I remember right. I
                            > figured
                            > the cap went bad, or something like that... that wouldn't have made a
                            > smell
                            > if it went bad. Could just be a loose connection inside somewhere. I
                            > would
                            > like to get it fixed if I can find it. Have any suggestion on where to
                            > take it?
                            > Thanks Ed or any other list member, for any advice of suggestions on
                            > related
                            > to the possibility of getting it fixed. Thanks...
                            >
                            > JPM
                            >
                            >        If I were you I'd take a look at the points and see if they're
                            > touching.  If they are and nothing happens I'd try cleaning them with a
                            > bit of very fine sandpaper, then hold them together with a piece of
                            > paper between them, then pull the paper out to finish cleaning, then try
                            > power again.  The points are usually adjustable with a screw and if it
                            > doesn't buzz I'd try moving them together slightly and see if that
                            > helps.  If the capacitor across the points had shorted I'd expect that
                            > you'd have gotten "a smell".  You could also check the continuity
                            > between the sides of the line cord with an ohmmeter and see  what the
                            > resistance is.  I'd expect it to be somewhere between 20 and 200 ohms,
                            > depending on the size of the wire on the primary winding.
                            >
                            >        Nice toy when you get it working.
                            >
                            > Ed


                            "Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
                                         --David Guy Powers--


                          • James Moore
                            ... JPM Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it. --David Guy Powers--
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
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                              Thanks Ed for the helpful suggestions.... now if I can just find it again.

                              JPM


                              "Each day is a new life. Seize it. Live it."
                                           --David Guy Powers--


                            • Jim Farrer
                              Derek, This sounds familiar, as if it came from the book on HAARP by Jerry Vassilatos. Don t have the book at hand, memory is always questionable. This is the
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 2, 2004
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                                Derek,
                                This sounds familiar, as if it came from the book on HAARP by Jerry Vassilatos.
                                Don't have the book at hand, memory is always questionable. This is the only
                                source I've seen this idea expressed. Since Tesla didn't say it or write it,
                                it becsomes suspect in the eyes of scientists and engineers.

                                I've often wondered where Vassilatos got his ideas.

                                Jim Farrer

                                Derek wrote:
                                >
                                > Tesla performed an experiment in which he discharged a high voltage
                                > capacitor across an air gap. Upon discharge, he noticed a physical
                                > pressure wave upon his body, which surprisingly was able to penetrate
                                > both a copper and glass shield. He also noticed that if the duration
                                > of the impulse discharge was small enough, the physical pressure wave
                                > then manifested as a type of warming ratiation.
                                >
                                > Is there anyone out there who has performed this type of experiment
                                > and/or studied this type of effect? I'm interested in it, and would
                                > like to know the voltage, details of the apparatus used, and findings.
                                >
                                > Thanks.
                                > Derek
                                >
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                              • Bert Hickman
                                Jim, ...plus the fact that the effects apparently have not been replicated over the last 100+ years. I ve personally discharged capacitor banks ranging from
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 2, 2004
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                                  Jim,

                                  ...plus the fact that the effects apparently have not been replicated
                                  over the last 100+ years. I've personally discharged capacitor banks
                                  ranging from less than 1 Joule through 8500 Joules. And although the
                                  discharges can be very loud, even deafening, and the flash brilliant,
                                  the claimed effects were not observed. But I wasn't trying to achieve
                                  submicrosecond discharges. BTW, there were many active experimenters
                                  using capacitor discharges during the days of spark radio... to my
                                  knowledge, the effects claimed by Mr. Vassilatos were not reported in
                                  any of the popular or scientific literature of that era either. It
                                  also makes me wonder about the source(s) of his information.

                                  -- Bert --
                                  --
                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  We specialize in UNIQUE items! Coins shrunk by Ultrastrong Fields,
                                  Lichtenberg Figures (electrical discharges in acrylic), & Scarce OOP
                                  Technical Books. Stoneridge Engineering -- http://www.teslamania.com
                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------

                                  Jim Farrer wrote:
                                  > Derek,
                                  > This sounds familiar, as if it came from the book on HAARP by Jerry Vassilatos.
                                  > Don't have the book at hand, memory is always questionable. This is the only
                                  > source I've seen this idea expressed. Since Tesla didn't say it or write it,
                                  > it becsomes suspect in the eyes of scientists and engineers.
                                  >
                                  > I've often wondered where Vassilatos got his ideas.
                                  >
                                  > Jim Farrer
                                  >
                                  > Derek wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>Tesla performed an experiment in which he discharged a high voltage
                                  >>capacitor across an air gap. Upon discharge, he noticed a physical
                                  >>pressure wave upon his body, which surprisingly was able to penetrate
                                  >>both a copper and glass shield. He also noticed that if the duration
                                  >>of the impulse discharge was small enough, the physical pressure wave
                                  >>then manifested as a type of warming ratiation.
                                  >>
                                  >>Is there anyone out there who has performed this type of experiment
                                  >>and/or studied this type of effect? I'm interested in it, and would
                                  >>like to know the voltage, details of the apparatus used, and findings.
                                  >>
                                  >>Thanks.
                                  >>Derek
                                  >>
                                  ><SNIP>
                                • Ed Phillips
                                  Derek, This sounds familiar, as if it came from the book on HAARP by Jerry Vassilatos. Don t have the book at hand, memory is always questionable. This is
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 2, 2004
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                                    "Derek,
                                    This sounds familiar, as if it came from the book on HAARP by Jerry
                                    Vassilatos.
                                    Don't have the book at hand, memory is always questionable. This is the
                                    only
                                    source I've seen this idea expressed. Since Tesla didn't say it or
                                    write it,
                                    it becsomes suspect in the eyes of scientists and engineers.

                                    I've often wondered where Vassilatos got his ideas.

                                    Jim Farrer"

                                    Out of a bottle? From smoking weed?

                                    Ed
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