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Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox

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  • Kirby Olson
    It really is funny, and what we will hear now for the next two years are attempts at blame from the different sides, with facts that fit the interpretation
    Message 1 of 29 , Sep 9, 2005
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      It really is funny, and what we will hear now for the next two years are
      attempts at blame from the different sides, with facts that "fit" the
      interpretation that they want.

      I hated Bush until 9/11, and then I liked how he and Guiliani dealt with
      that mess. So I started to switch teams. I had already been driven crazy
      by a former feminist wife who blamed everything on men and male domination.
      And now that I see that the Democrats are increasingly taking up that model
      I can't bear to listen to it any longer. Hillary drives me completely out
      of my mind just to hear her voice with that note of "I am a good person and
      I am on the right side because I am a woman" business.

      I even get a kick out of Bush's swagger because I know it will drive my
      ex-wife and all her cohorts out of their minds, which gives my vengeful
      little heart a beat of merriment. I love his boots and his thick belt, and
      his hats. It's sort of self-destructive, but that's where I am right now.
      It's self-destructive because I know these guys are not thinking about
      renewable energy sources as they really should be at this juncture in
      history, and I know they are not interested in cleaning up the food industry
      which is a real mess (I still go to health food stores but I try to avoid
      the feminists' wrath as I go in and out of those havens of organicity), and
      I know that if it were up to the Bush-Cheney gang there would be a kind of
      Calvinist theocracy in place, and well, I don't think as a Lutheran that
      Calvinists have any merit whatsoever. But still -- unless the Democrats
      were to run a moderate like Lieberman, or a guy with a sense of humor (I
      can't think of any prominent Democrats for whom this is a major part of
      their schtick, but it might conceivably exist) I'll probably not vote. I
      can't bring myself to vote for either group at this point, and wish that
      something else would arise.

      As for me, I'd rather look at the busses sitting in New Orleans and say,
      it's the mayor's fault. Bush is as innocent as Tweety Bird.

      My new mental mode incenses everybody that I know, and I think I find that
      kind of fun, too.
      It would be really fun to be an actual feminist in a Women's Studies
      department and to go around tooting Bush's horn, and watching the fury.
      Even better would be to argue something along the lines of Cheney's
      ingeniousness, but unfortunately I have so little time to pick up facts that
      might support such a view.

      So many pleasures are denied simply by the finite nature of time and space.

      Kirby


      >From: "ellen 'windy' lytle" <thedgey@...>
      >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
      >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:16:45 -0500
      >
      >funny how some see the same stuff so differently ; in 2004, as well as
      >before, the locals and the new orleans city corps of engineers asked for
      >additional moneys for the levees and were given only 20% of what was deemed
      >needed because the rest of THEIR money was going for the iraq war and home
      >security( to keep a watch out for arabs???!!!!!!!!!) why in god's name
      >would
      >any rational person think bush wasn't to blame? thedge ps del banco, the
      >louisiana governor declared a 'state of emergency' two days before (sat. i
      >believe) and nothing was done from the fed.level for days...
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
      >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
      >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:46 PM
      >Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
      >
      >
      > >
      > > God didn't flood New Orleans. 1.9 billion dollars were appropriated to
      > > reinforce the levees but the mayor and governor used the money for
      >anything
      > > but.
      > >
      > > Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans.
      > >
      > > God is not responsible for this. George Bush is not responsible for
      >this.
      > > Bush asked the governor to declare a state of emergency and to begin
      > > evacuations two days before the storm hit. Katrina is responsible, in
      > > combination with the governor and mayor of the city. Bush and God come
      >out
      > > pretty clean on this! The mayor was told by the National Hurricane
      >Center
      > > two days before the storm hit that he had to evacuate. And yet the
      >busses
      > > sat, and are now destroyed. New Orleans is like the proverbial
      >grasshopper.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -- Kirby
      > >
      > > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
      > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
      > > >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:21:38 -0000
      > > >
      > > >I just read John Bailey's The Lost German Slave Girl: The Extraordinary
      > > >True Story of Sally Miller and Her Fight for Freedom in Old New Orleans
      > > >(Grove, New York: 2003). New Orleans has always been fucking and
      > > >fucking over her Black citizens. The book can make you indignant about
      > > >history's wrongs. If God existed, He'd have flooded old New Orleans and
      > > >saved only Sally Miller. Bailey's a lawyer, and the book functions as a
      > > >page-turning mystery. I read it alongside a Fodor's guide to New
      > > >Orleans. How could God be so cruel as to flood that wonderful city?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Kirby Olson
      According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago, Bush has an IQ of about 130. Kerry s IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points on Kerry. And
      Message 2 of 29 , Sep 9, 2005
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        According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago, Bush has
        an IQ of about 130. Kerry's IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points on
        Kerry.

        And I think that might be the top Democrat. Dean must have been barely
        sentient -- somewhere around 90 -- able to feed himself but not much more.

        If you listen to the other side of this story -- and I honestly don't know
        who's correct -- the right is arguing that the Democratic mayor and governor
        screwed this up. Bush allowed this to be a federal disaster area pending
        the approval of the governor. He also allowed 1.9 billion to Louisiana for
        federal works projects in that state last year (more than any other state).
        But Louisiana spent it on other things.

        I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
        partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left see Bush
        as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse than
        Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster his
        flagging popularity.

        My mind reels. I like to tease the left (I was always anarchist and never a
        communist) when they say things like let's raise the taxes (this was Ron
        Silliman's prescription). At this point I'm just glad that there are still
        two parties of elites that attack each other, as between the two there is
        occasionally some small possibility of truthfulness. What I fear most is a
        one-party state. Each party seems to want that, but it's the last thing on
        earth I want. I prefer the Finnish model -- where there are 50 parties and
        they have a parliamentary system where you get seats proportionate to your
        representation instead of a winner take all model. I'd like to see Owl
        Parties, and Lutheran Surrealists, and Green Anarchists, and Calvinist
        Creeps, and Feminist Fatsos, and other parties in all their unadulterated
        glory, squeaking their madness in the rotunda, instead of these supposedly
        objective senators and presidents from the Skull & Bones club pretending to
        speak for all Americans.

        -- Kirby


        >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
        >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans as Lake George
        >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:05:16 -0000
        >
        >Theodicy is the vindication of God's goodness in the face of evil. I
        >prefer His saints to God Himself. The French founded New Orleans on
        >high ground; the French Quarter thus survived the flood. Fly from
        >Australia writes that her cousins survived the NOLA disaster. That's
        >good. Tout est au mieux, says Pangloss in Candide, quoting Leibniz;
        >all is for the best. Sometimes optimism becomes feckless. Flood
        >control in the US is a federal responsibility, and, as I understand
        >it, the Army Corps of Engineers wanted $40 million for the levees of
        >New Orlans last year. Bush gave them half. He also sent the Louisiana
        >National Guard to Irag. Thus, there were no first responders to
        >Katrina. The NOLA police, unequipped for such a disaster, cracked.
        >Voltaire pointed his finger at Leibniz after the Lisbon Earthquake. I
        >would point my finger at Bush, but why bother? He's just a dope.
        >
        >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
        >wrote:
        > > Does the whole of New Orleans need to be torn down and rebuilt due
        >to the
        > > water damage?
        > >
        > >
        > > >From: rutertoot@a...
        > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
        > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
        > > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
        > > >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:08:07 EDT
        > > >
        > > >An old neighborhood friend who had moved to New Orleans escaped
        >the flood
        > > >in
        > > >the back of a pick-up truck. He ended up in Memphis, then
        >Chicago, and is
        > > >now
        > > >headed to New York. "Do you need a place to stay?" I asked and
        >indeed he
        > > >does.
        >
        >
      • Halvard Johnson
        ... Well, whether GWB engineered it or not, he certainly benefitted from it--if only because 9/11 prevented the Enron collapse from becoming the scandal that
        Message 3 of 29 , Sep 9, 2005
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          On Sep 9, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Kirby Olson wrote:

          > I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
          > partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left
          > see Bush
          > as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse
          > than
          > Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster
          > his
          > flagging popularity.

          Well, whether GWB engineered it or not, he certainly
          benefitted from it--if only because 9/11 prevented
          the Enron collapse from becoming the scandal that
          swept him and his buddies away.

          Hal "We fought a war on poverty,
          and poverty won."
          --Pres. Ronald Reagan

          Halvard Johnson
          ================
          email: halvard@...
          halvard@...
          website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
          blogs: http://entropyandme.blogspot.com
          http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com
        • Kirby Olson
          Packing agencies with your backers and exaggerating your record are standards in politics. I m sure the whole of Louisiana is packed with backers of whoever s
          Message 4 of 29 , Sep 9, 2005
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            Packing agencies with your backers and exaggerating your record are
            standards in politics.

            I'm sure the whole of Louisiana is packed with backers of whoever's
            whatever.

            It's fun to switch channels.

            If you listen to Fox News, you get a totally different perspective from CNN.

            MSNBC has a few conservatives now and then, too.

            Of course they are going to try and exonerate Bush. Just as the liberals
            are of course going to try and use this as the one final head chop for Bush
            and his gang.

            All you have to do is flick around to the different news channels and admire
            how objective they all are. There are about 10 news channels in my cable
            package and every one has their own slant. Then of course there's the
            blogosphere. If you look up something like "busses in New Orleans" you can
            come up with thousands of conservative blowhards to match the thousands of
            liberal blowhards whose taglines might be something like "Katrina" and
            "Bush's fault"

            It's fun to flip around and see the different angles. Thank heavens there
            are at least two in this diverse and open society.

            Instead of lamenting that "God" whacked New Orleans, the conservatives will
            instead argue things like, it's amazing that God kept that silly city out of
            harm's way so long.

            You really have to approach this with a sort of diffident sense of humor.
            Because you can't change anybody else's mind no matter what you say. We're
            all too polarized at this point. Are there are any independents left who
            haven't totally made up their mind without the facts at all whose fault it
            was? Once you've mad eup your mind, you start to find facts that fit.
            That's all that's happening now. Nothing else CAN happen. It's ideological
            gridlock, with the left slowly but inexorably giving way. All they need to
            do is nominate Hillary and it's over. Unless the right picks someone who is
            too far that way. Jeb vs. Hillary would be a blow-out.

            My favorite showdown would be Condi vs. Hillary. The right would lose
            because Condi is black, but it would cause a thousand gaffes of political
            incorrectness on every side, and the whole country would end up offended. I
            would enjoy this immensely.

            -- Kirby


            >From: souvienstoidemoublier <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
            >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
            >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:30:33 -0000
            >
            >I believe we are going to see failings on all levels, but was really
            >surprised that someone would try to exonerate the President and the
            >federal government. It is now coming out that Bush packed his
            >agencies with his political whores and that the main FEMA guy may
            >have exaggerated part of his record.
            >
            >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "ellen 'windy' lytle"
            ><thedgey@e...> wrote:
            > > funny how some see the same stuff so differently ; in 2004, as
            >well as
            > > before, the locals and the new orleans city corps of engineers
            >asked for
            > > additional moneys for the levees and were given only 20% of what
            >was deemed
            > > needed because the rest of THEIR money was going for the iraq war
            >and home
            > > security( to keep a watch out for arabs???!!!!!!!!!) why in god's
            >name would
            > > any rational person think bush wasn't to blame? thedge ps del
            >banco, the
            > > louisiana governor declared a 'state of emergency' two days before
            >(sat. i
            > > believe) and nothing was done from the fed.level for days...
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
            > > To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:46 PM
            > > Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > God didn't flood New Orleans. 1.9 billion dollars were
            >appropriated to
            > > > reinforce the levees but the mayor and governor used the money for
            > > anything
            > > > but.
            > > >
            > > > Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans.
            > > >
            > > > God is not responsible for this. George Bush is not responsible
            >for this.
            > > > Bush asked the governor to declare a state of emergency and to
            >begin
            > > > evacuations two days before the storm hit. Katrina is
            >responsible, in
            > > > combination with the governor and mayor of the city. Bush and
            >God come
            > > out
            > > > pretty clean on this! The mayor was told by the National
            >Hurricane Center
            > > > two days before the storm hit that he had to evacuate. And yet
            >the busses
            > > > sat, and are now destroyed. New Orleans is like the proverbial
            > > grasshopper.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -- Kirby
            > > >
            > > > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
            > > > >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:21:38 -0000
            > > > >
            > > > >I just read John Bailey's The Lost German Slave Girl: The
            >Extraordinary
            > > > >True Story of Sally Miller and Her Fight for Freedom in Old New
            >Orleans
            > > > >(Grove, New York: 2003). New Orleans has always been fucking and
            > > > >fucking over her Black citizens. The book can make you
            >indignant about
            > > > >history's wrongs. If God existed, He'd have flooded old New
            >Orleans and
            > > > >saved only Sally Miller. Bailey's a lawyer, and the book
            >functions as a
            > > > >page-turning mystery. I read it alongside a Fodor's guide to New
            > > > >Orleans. How could God be so cruel as to flood that wonderful
            >city?
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            >
          • Kirby Olson
            People just argue from what they perceive to be their advantage. I think the law term is special pleading. At least that s the term in rhetoric. Nobody cares
            Message 5 of 29 , Sep 9, 2005
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              People just argue from what they perceive to be their advantage. I think
              the law term is special pleading. At least that's the term in rhetoric.
              Nobody cares about the actual fairness or objectivity of their facts. If
              the Republicans were to run Condi and the Demos were to run some white man
              from the south, you can bet they would begin to say, well, we shouldn't
              think about race or gender, we should instead think about character, etc.
              etc. It's just whatever will win at any given moment, and get you your way.

              I do think that fairness matters, but I don't think that anybody in national
              politics can afford to be idealistic. Idealism is for losers at that level.
            • ellen 'windy' lytle
              i think you may have bushes numbers mixed up; i m sure they re 013- thedge ... From: Kirby Olson To:
              Message 6 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                i think you may have bushes' numbers mixed up; i'm sure they're 013- thedge
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:55 AM
                Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!


                > According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago, Bush
                has
                > an IQ of about 130. Kerry's IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points on
                > Kerry.
                >
                > And I think that might be the top Democrat. Dean must have been barely
                > sentient -- somewhere around 90 -- able to feed himself but not much more.
                >
                > If you listen to the other side of this story -- and I honestly don't know
                > who's correct -- the right is arguing that the Democratic mayor and
                governor
                > screwed this up. Bush allowed this to be a federal disaster area pending
                > the approval of the governor. He also allowed 1.9 billion to Louisiana
                for
                > federal works projects in that state last year (more than any other
                state).
                > But Louisiana spent it on other things.
                >
                > I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
                > partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left see
                Bush
                > as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse
                than
                > Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster his
                > flagging popularity.
                >
                > My mind reels. I like to tease the left (I was always anarchist and never
                a
                > communist) when they say things like let's raise the taxes (this was Ron
                > Silliman's prescription). At this point I'm just glad that there are
                still
                > two parties of elites that attack each other, as between the two there is
                > occasionally some small possibility of truthfulness. What I fear most is
                a
                > one-party state. Each party seems to want that, but it's the last thing
                on
                > earth I want. I prefer the Finnish model -- where there are 50 parties
                and
                > they have a parliamentary system where you get seats proportionate to your
                > representation instead of a winner take all model. I'd like to see Owl
                > Parties, and Lutheran Surrealists, and Green Anarchists, and Calvinist
                > Creeps, and Feminist Fatsos, and other parties in all their unadulterated
                > glory, squeaking their madness in the rotunda, instead of these supposedly
                > objective senators and presidents from the Skull & Bones club pretending
                to
                > speak for all Americans.
                >
                > -- Kirby
                >
                >
                > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans as Lake George
                > >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:05:16 -0000
                > >
                > >Theodicy is the vindication of God's goodness in the face of evil. I
                > >prefer His saints to God Himself. The French founded New Orleans on
                > >high ground; the French Quarter thus survived the flood. Fly from
                > >Australia writes that her cousins survived the NOLA disaster. That's
                > >good. Tout est au mieux, says Pangloss in Candide, quoting Leibniz;
                > >all is for the best. Sometimes optimism becomes feckless. Flood
                > >control in the US is a federal responsibility, and, as I understand
                > >it, the Army Corps of Engineers wanted $40 million for the levees of
                > >New Orlans last year. Bush gave them half. He also sent the Louisiana
                > >National Guard to Irag. Thus, there were no first responders to
                > >Katrina. The NOLA police, unequipped for such a disaster, cracked.
                > >Voltaire pointed his finger at Leibniz after the Lisbon Earthquake. I
                > >would point my finger at Bush, but why bother? He's just a dope.
                > >
                > >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                > >wrote:
                > > > Does the whole of New Orleans need to be torn down and rebuilt due
                > >to the
                > > > water damage?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >From: rutertoot@a...
                > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
                > > > >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:08:07 EDT
                > > > >
                > > > >An old neighborhood friend who had moved to New Orleans escaped
                > >the flood
                > > > >in
                > > > >the back of a pick-up truck. He ended up in Memphis, then
                > >Chicago, and is
                > > > >now
                > > > >headed to New York. "Do you need a place to stay?" I asked and
                > >indeed he
                > > > >does.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • ellen 'windy' lytle
                and kirby....one can see blatantly how you don t follow idealism in any manner but even a nihilist melts somewhat in the face of floods wiping out humans,
                Message 7 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
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                  and kirby....one can see blatantly how you don't follow idealism in any
                  manner but even a nihilist melts somewhat in the face of floods wiping out
                  humans, animals, and everyone's books, papers, photographs and artwork- at
                  least fire makes a clean sweep of stuff and i love ash, but water rots and
                  leaves the debris behind for a whole world to deal with....thedge...ok you
                  asked for it politics and religion always manage to creeep into everything
                  and dean's numbers are backwards too; more like 190....
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                  To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:55 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!


                  > According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago, Bush
                  has
                  > an IQ of about 130. Kerry's IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points on
                  > Kerry.
                  >
                  > And I think that might be the top Democrat. Dean must have been barely
                  > sentient -- somewhere around 90 -- able to feed himself but not much more.
                  >
                  > If you listen to the other side of this story -- and I honestly don't know
                  > who's correct -- the right is arguing that the Democratic mayor and
                  governor
                  > screwed this up. Bush allowed this to be a federal disaster area pending
                  > the approval of the governor. He also allowed 1.9 billion to Louisiana
                  for
                  > federal works projects in that state last year (more than any other
                  state).
                  > But Louisiana spent it on other things.
                  >
                  > I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
                  > partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left see
                  Bush
                  > as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse
                  than
                  > Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster his
                  > flagging popularity.
                  >
                  > My mind reels. I like to tease the left (I was always anarchist and never
                  a
                  > communist) when they say things like let's raise the taxes (this was Ron
                  > Silliman's prescription). At this point I'm just glad that there are
                  still
                  > two parties of elites that attack each other, as between the two there is
                  > occasionally some small possibility of truthfulness. What I fear most is
                  a
                  > one-party state. Each party seems to want that, but it's the last thing
                  on
                  > earth I want. I prefer the Finnish model -- where there are 50 parties
                  and
                  > they have a parliamentary system where you get seats proportionate to your
                  > representation instead of a winner take all model. I'd like to see Owl
                  > Parties, and Lutheran Surrealists, and Green Anarchists, and Calvinist
                  > Creeps, and Feminist Fatsos, and other parties in all their unadulterated
                  > glory, squeaking their madness in the rotunda, instead of these supposedly
                  > objective senators and presidents from the Skull & Bones club pretending
                  to
                  > speak for all Americans.
                  >
                  > -- Kirby
                  >
                  >
                  > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans as Lake George
                  > >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:05:16 -0000
                  > >
                  > >Theodicy is the vindication of God's goodness in the face of evil. I
                  > >prefer His saints to God Himself. The French founded New Orleans on
                  > >high ground; the French Quarter thus survived the flood. Fly from
                  > >Australia writes that her cousins survived the NOLA disaster. That's
                  > >good. Tout est au mieux, says Pangloss in Candide, quoting Leibniz;
                  > >all is for the best. Sometimes optimism becomes feckless. Flood
                  > >control in the US is a federal responsibility, and, as I understand
                  > >it, the Army Corps of Engineers wanted $40 million for the levees of
                  > >New Orlans last year. Bush gave them half. He also sent the Louisiana
                  > >National Guard to Irag. Thus, there were no first responders to
                  > >Katrina. The NOLA police, unequipped for such a disaster, cracked.
                  > >Voltaire pointed his finger at Leibniz after the Lisbon Earthquake. I
                  > >would point my finger at Bush, but why bother? He's just a dope.
                  > >
                  > >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                  > >wrote:
                  > > > Does the whole of New Orleans need to be torn down and rebuilt due
                  > >to the
                  > > > water damage?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >From: rutertoot@a...
                  > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
                  > > > >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:08:07 EDT
                  > > > >
                  > > > >An old neighborhood friend who had moved to New Orleans escaped
                  > >the flood
                  > > > >in
                  > > > >the back of a pick-up truck. He ended up in Memphis, then
                  > >Chicago, and is
                  > > > >now
                  > > > >headed to New York. "Do you need a place to stay?" I asked and
                  > >indeed he
                  > > > >does.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Kirby Olson
                  His character is impetuous (he s no Hamlet like Kerry) but the brain is fundamentally quick and sound. I ll try to find the link for you to his IQ score. --
                  Message 8 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    His character is impetuous (he's no Hamlet like Kerry) but the brain is
                    fundamentally quick and sound. I'll try to find the link for you to his IQ
                    score.

                    -- Kirby


                    >From: "ellen 'windy' lytle" <thedgey@...>
                    >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!
                    >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:55:39 -0500
                    >
                    >i think you may have bushes' numbers mixed up; i'm sure they're 013- thedge
                    >----- Original Message -----
                    >From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                    >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:55 AM
                    >Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!
                    >
                    >
                    > > According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago, Bush
                    >has
                    > > an IQ of about 130. Kerry's IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points on
                    > > Kerry.
                    > >
                    > > And I think that might be the top Democrat. Dean must have been barely
                    > > sentient -- somewhere around 90 -- able to feed himself but not much
                    >more.
                    > >
                    > > If you listen to the other side of this story -- and I honestly don't
                    >know
                    > > who's correct -- the right is arguing that the Democratic mayor and
                    >governor
                    > > screwed this up. Bush allowed this to be a federal disaster area
                    >pending
                    > > the approval of the governor. He also allowed 1.9 billion to Louisiana
                    >for
                    > > federal works projects in that state last year (more than any other
                    >state).
                    > > But Louisiana spent it on other things.
                    > >
                    > > I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
                    > > partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left see
                    >Bush
                    > > as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse
                    >than
                    > > Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster
                    >his
                    > > flagging popularity.
                    > >
                    > > My mind reels. I like to tease the left (I was always anarchist and
                    >never
                    >a
                    > > communist) when they say things like let's raise the taxes (this was Ron
                    > > Silliman's prescription). At this point I'm just glad that there are
                    >still
                    > > two parties of elites that attack each other, as between the two there
                    >is
                    > > occasionally some small possibility of truthfulness. What I fear most
                    >is
                    >a
                    > > one-party state. Each party seems to want that, but it's the last thing
                    >on
                    > > earth I want. I prefer the Finnish model -- where there are 50 parties
                    >and
                    > > they have a parliamentary system where you get seats proportionate to
                    >your
                    > > representation instead of a winner take all model. I'd like to see Owl
                    > > Parties, and Lutheran Surrealists, and Green Anarchists, and Calvinist
                    > > Creeps, and Feminist Fatsos, and other parties in all their
                    >unadulterated
                    > > glory, squeaking their madness in the rotunda, instead of these
                    >supposedly
                    > > objective senators and presidents from the Skull & Bones club pretending
                    >to
                    > > speak for all Americans.
                    > >
                    > > -- Kirby
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans as Lake George
                    > > >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:05:16 -0000
                    > > >
                    > > >Theodicy is the vindication of God's goodness in the face of evil. I
                    > > >prefer His saints to God Himself. The French founded New Orleans on
                    > > >high ground; the French Quarter thus survived the flood. Fly from
                    > > >Australia writes that her cousins survived the NOLA disaster. That's
                    > > >good. Tout est au mieux, says Pangloss in Candide, quoting Leibniz;
                    > > >all is for the best. Sometimes optimism becomes feckless. Flood
                    > > >control in the US is a federal responsibility, and, as I understand
                    > > >it, the Army Corps of Engineers wanted $40 million for the levees of
                    > > >New Orlans last year. Bush gave them half. He also sent the Louisiana
                    > > >National Guard to Irag. Thus, there were no first responders to
                    > > >Katrina. The NOLA police, unequipped for such a disaster, cracked.
                    > > >Voltaire pointed his finger at Leibniz after the Lisbon Earthquake. I
                    > > >would point my finger at Bush, but why bother? He's just a dope.
                    > > >
                    > > >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                    > > >wrote:
                    > > > > Does the whole of New Orleans need to be torn down and rebuilt due
                    > > >to the
                    > > > > water damage?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > >From: rutertoot@a...
                    > > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
                    > > > > >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:08:07 EDT
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >An old neighborhood friend who had moved to New Orleans escaped
                    > > >the flood
                    > > > > >in
                    > > > > >the back of a pick-up truck. He ended up in Memphis, then
                    > > >Chicago, and is
                    > > > > >now
                    > > > > >headed to New York. "Do you need a place to stay?" I asked and
                    > > >indeed he
                    > > > > >does.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Kirby Olson
                    http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm There have been a number of these studies published. The one I originally read was in the NY Times but you have
                    Message 9 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

                      There have been a number of these studies published. The one I originally
                      read was in the NY Times but you have to do some kind of annoying giving up
                      of all information in order to enter the Times' archives.

                      At any rate, for what it's worth. The guy does have a brain, he just has
                      different principles than most of the blue state folks. I offer this merely
                      in favor of the intellectual diversity that everybody seems to think is such
                      an important thing right now.
                    • Kirby Olson
                      I m an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and people who lost their books. I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans. They
                      Message 10 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I'm an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and people who
                        lost their books.

                        I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans. They
                        diverted the Mississippi to make the city where it is. Colossal hubris to
                        move a whole river. The rivers don't like being shoved around, and finally
                        they shove back. The river god is demonic that way.

                        Do people really believe in IQ scores?

                        I read the Steven Jay Gould book against them as being bound up in cultural
                        specificities. But then they make their way back now and then irregardless
                        it seems.

                        I do believe in idealism, but only if it's grounded in realism.

                        Now they're going to rebuild the city at the cost of 50 billion dollars,
                        only to have it flood again in ten years. It's funny.

                        I like the early jazz of New Orleans. I found myself humming a lot of it,
                        and wishing I could play boogie woogie piano. I like the way those bass
                        rhythms roll.

                        Has everybody heard Professor Longhair?

                        The Wild Tchopitoulas? (This one is a faux-Indian band that the Neville
                        brothers are in, and behind -- very good lead singer whose name I can't
                        recall -- hot !). Now the death estimates are lowered from 10,000 to about
                        two hundred I hear.

                        -- Kirby
                      • rutertoot@aol.com
                        My roomate at Fire Island lived in New Orleans during the winter. She always plays her jazz favorites from NOLA during and after dinner. When I imagine my
                        Message 11 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          My 'roomate' at Fire Island lived in New Orleans during the winter. She
                          always plays her jazz favorites from NOLA during and after dinner.
                          When I imagine my home being flooded, I wonder what I'd miss most. I'd be
                          sorry to lose my diaries and my old stuffed animals.
                        • ellen 'windy' lytle
                          god, i so don t believe in iq tests or any tests predominantly but of course bush is smart; clever as can be but a pathological liar is usually quite
                          Message 12 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            god, i so don' t believe in iq tests or any tests predominantly but of
                            course bush is smart; clever as can be but a pathological liar is usually
                            quite cunning....thedge
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                            To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:04 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!


                            > His character is impetuous (he's no Hamlet like Kerry) but the brain is
                            > fundamentally quick and sound. I'll try to find the link for you to his
                            IQ
                            > score.
                            >
                            > -- Kirby
                            >
                            >
                            > >From: "ellen 'windy' lytle" <thedgey@...>
                            > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                            > >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                            > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!
                            > >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:55:39 -0500
                            > >
                            > >i think you may have bushes' numbers mixed up; i'm sure they're 013-
                            thedge
                            > >----- Original Message -----
                            > >From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                            > >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                            > >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:55 AM
                            > >Subject: RE: [Unmuzzled Ox] By George!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > According to a report in the New York Times a year and a half ago,
                            Bush
                            > >has
                            > > > an IQ of about 130. Kerry's IQ was only 120. So Bush has ten points
                            on
                            > > > Kerry.
                            > > >
                            > > > And I think that might be the top Democrat. Dean must have been
                            barely
                            > > > sentient -- somewhere around 90 -- able to feed himself but not much
                            > >more.
                            > > >
                            > > > If you listen to the other side of this story -- and I honestly don't
                            > >know
                            > > > who's correct -- the right is arguing that the Democratic mayor and
                            > >governor
                            > > > screwed this up. Bush allowed this to be a federal disaster area
                            > >pending
                            > > > the approval of the governor. He also allowed 1.9 billion to
                            Louisiana
                            > >for
                            > > > federal works projects in that state last year (more than any other
                            > >state).
                            > > > But Louisiana spent it on other things.
                            > > >
                            > > > I think the facts we will be getting will be highly dependent on the
                            > > > partisan nature of sources and agendas. Many Americans on the left
                            see
                            > >Bush
                            > > > as simply evil. I even have many friends who think that Bush is worse
                            > >than
                            > > > Hitler, and that he even engineered the WTC attack in order to bolster
                            > >his
                            > > > flagging popularity.
                            > > >
                            > > > My mind reels. I like to tease the left (I was always anarchist and
                            > >never
                            > >a
                            > > > communist) when they say things like let's raise the taxes (this was
                            Ron
                            > > > Silliman's prescription). At this point I'm just glad that there are
                            > >still
                            > > > two parties of elites that attack each other, as between the two there
                            > >is
                            > > > occasionally some small possibility of truthfulness. What I fear most
                            > >is
                            > >a
                            > > > one-party state. Each party seems to want that, but it's the last
                            thing
                            > >on
                            > > > earth I want. I prefer the Finnish model -- where there are 50
                            parties
                            > >and
                            > > > they have a parliamentary system where you get seats proportionate to
                            > >your
                            > > > representation instead of a winner take all model. I'd like to see
                            Owl
                            > > > Parties, and Lutheran Surrealists, and Green Anarchists, and Calvinist
                            > > > Creeps, and Feminist Fatsos, and other parties in all their
                            > >unadulterated
                            > > > glory, squeaking their madness in the rotunda, instead of these
                            > >supposedly
                            > > > objective senators and presidents from the Skull & Bones club
                            pretending
                            > >to
                            > > > speak for all Americans.
                            > > >
                            > > > -- Kirby
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >From: mandreox <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >Subject: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans as Lake George
                            > > > >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:05:16 -0000
                            > > > >
                            > > > >Theodicy is the vindication of God's goodness in the face of evil. I
                            > > > >prefer His saints to God Himself. The French founded New Orleans on
                            > > > >high ground; the French Quarter thus survived the flood. Fly from
                            > > > >Australia writes that her cousins survived the NOLA disaster. That's
                            > > > >good. Tout est au mieux, says Pangloss in Candide, quoting Leibniz;
                            > > > >all is for the best. Sometimes optimism becomes feckless. Flood
                            > > > >control in the US is a federal responsibility, and, as I understand
                            > > > >it, the Army Corps of Engineers wanted $40 million for the levees of
                            > > > >New Orlans last year. Bush gave them half. He also sent the Louisiana
                            > > > >National Guard to Irag. Thus, there were no first responders to
                            > > > >Katrina. The NOLA police, unequipped for such a disaster, cracked.
                            > > > >Voltaire pointed his finger at Leibniz after the Lisbon Earthquake. I
                            > > > >would point my finger at Bush, but why bother? He's just a dope.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >--- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                            > > > >wrote:
                            > > > > > Does the whole of New Orleans need to be torn down and rebuilt due
                            > > > >to the
                            > > > > > water damage?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > >From: rutertoot@a...
                            > > > > > >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > >To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] New Orleans Paradox
                            > > > > > >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:08:07 EDT
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >An old neighborhood friend who had moved to New Orleans escaped
                            > > > >the flood
                            > > > > > >in
                            > > > > > >the back of a pick-up truck. He ended up in Memphis, then
                            > > > >Chicago, and is
                            > > > > > >now
                            > > > > > >headed to New York. "Do you need a place to stay?" I asked and
                            > > > >indeed he
                            > > > > > >does.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • ellen 'windy' lytle
                            really? two hundred is miniscule compared w/10,000 - are you sure?- maybe now a week plus later we can finally find some the innocent animals who didn t ask to
                            Message 13 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              really? two hundred is miniscule compared w/10,000 - are you sure?- maybe
                              now a week plus later we can finally find some the innocent animals who
                              didn't ask to be there in the first place...thedge
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                              To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:56 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] Nagin's Lake


                              > I'm an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and people who
                              > lost their books.
                              >
                              > I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans. They
                              > diverted the Mississippi to make the city where it is. Colossal hubris to
                              > move a whole river. The rivers don't like being shoved around, and
                              finally
                              > they shove back. The river god is demonic that way.
                              >
                              > Do people really believe in IQ scores?
                              >
                              > I read the Steven Jay Gould book against them as being bound up in
                              cultural
                              > specificities. But then they make their way back now and then
                              irregardless
                              > it seems.
                              >
                              > I do believe in idealism, but only if it's grounded in realism.
                              >
                              > Now they're going to rebuild the city at the cost of 50 billion dollars,
                              > only to have it flood again in ten years. It's funny.
                              >
                              > I like the early jazz of New Orleans. I found myself humming a lot of it,
                              > and wishing I could play boogie woogie piano. I like the way those bass
                              > rhythms roll.
                              >
                              > Has everybody heard Professor Longhair?
                              >
                              > The Wild Tchopitoulas? (This one is a faux-Indian band that the Neville
                              > brothers are in, and behind -- very good lead singer whose name I can't
                              > recall -- hot !). Now the death estimates are lowered from 10,000 to
                              about
                              > two hundred I hear.
                              >
                              > -- Kirby
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • souvienstoidemoublier
                              Maybe it s time for a change. Maybe too many people have died.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Maybe it's time for a change. Maybe too many people have died.

                                --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                                wrote:
                                > Packing agencies with your backers and exaggerating your record are
                                > standards in politics.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • souvienstoidemoublier
                                I know of who you speak and have a Tipitina s t-shirt. ... who ... hubris to ... finally ... cultural ... irregardless ... dollars, ... of it, ... bass ...
                                Message 15 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I know of who you speak and have a Tipitina's t-shirt.

                                  --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > I'm an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and people
                                  who
                                  > lost their books.
                                  >
                                  > I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans. They
                                  > diverted the Mississippi to make the city where it is. Colossal
                                  hubris to
                                  > move a whole river. The rivers don't like being shoved around, and
                                  finally
                                  > they shove back. The river god is demonic that way.
                                  >
                                  > Do people really believe in IQ scores?
                                  >
                                  > I read the Steven Jay Gould book against them as being bound up in
                                  cultural
                                  > specificities. But then they make their way back now and then
                                  irregardless
                                  > it seems.
                                  >
                                  > I do believe in idealism, but only if it's grounded in realism.
                                  >
                                  > Now they're going to rebuild the city at the cost of 50 billion
                                  dollars,
                                  > only to have it flood again in ten years. It's funny.
                                  >
                                  > I like the early jazz of New Orleans. I found myself humming a lot
                                  of it,
                                  > and wishing I could play boogie woogie piano. I like the way those
                                  bass
                                  > rhythms roll.
                                  >
                                  > Has everybody heard Professor Longhair?
                                  >
                                  > The Wild Tchopitoulas? (This one is a faux-Indian band that the
                                  Neville
                                  > brothers are in, and behind -- very good lead singer whose name I
                                  can't
                                  > recall -- hot !). Now the death estimates are lowered from 10,000
                                  to about
                                  > two hundred I hear.
                                  >
                                  > -- Kirby
                                • souvienstoidemoublier
                                  I just wanna check on something, is everybody opposed to the flooding? Any in favor? ... maybe ... who ... people who ... They ... hubris to ... and ...
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I just wanna check on something, is everybody opposed to the flooding?
                                    Any in favor?

                                    --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "ellen 'windy' lytle" <thedgey@e.
                                    ..> wrote:
                                    > really? two hundred is miniscule compared w/10,000 - are you sure?-
                                    maybe
                                    > now a week plus later we can finally find some the innocent animals
                                    who
                                    > didn't ask to be there in the first place...thedge
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                                    > To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:56 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] Nagin's Lake
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > I'm an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and
                                    people who
                                    > > lost their books.
                                    > >
                                    > > I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans.
                                    They
                                    > > diverted the Mississippi to make the city where it is. Colossal
                                    hubris to
                                    > > move a whole river. The rivers don't like being shoved around,
                                    and
                                    > finally
                                    > > they shove back. The river god is demonic that way.
                                    > >
                                    > > Do people really believe in IQ scores?
                                    > >
                                    > > I read the Steven Jay Gould book against them as being bound up in
                                    > cultural
                                    > > specificities. But then they make their way back now and then
                                    > irregardless
                                    > > it seems.
                                    > >
                                    > > I do believe in idealism, but only if it's grounded in realism.
                                    > >
                                    > > Now they're going to rebuild the city at the cost of 50 billion
                                    dollars,
                                    > > only to have it flood again in ten years. It's funny.
                                    > >
                                    > > I like the early jazz of New Orleans. I found myself humming a
                                    lot of it,
                                    > > and wishing I could play boogie woogie piano. I like the way
                                    those bass
                                    > > rhythms roll.
                                    > >
                                    > > Has everybody heard Professor Longhair?
                                    > >
                                    > > The Wild Tchopitoulas? (This one is a faux-Indian band that the
                                    Neville
                                    > > brothers are in, and behind -- very good lead singer whose name I
                                    can't
                                    > > recall -- hot !). Now the death estimates are lowered from 10,000
                                    to
                                    > about
                                    > > two hundred I hear.
                                    > >
                                    > > -- Kirby
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                  • Kirby Olson
                                    It s still not clear. They have to get the city completely drained and find out what s on the bottom. But I think that usually dead people float, as they
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
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                                      It's still not clear. They have to get the city completely drained and find
                                      out what's on the bottom.
                                      But I think that usually dead people float, as they bloat up, and then bob
                                      on the water's surface. so I think we have them unless they were trapped in
                                      an attic.

                                      The original estimate was three months to drain the city. Now it's one
                                      month tops.

                                      So we'll soon have the actual figures.

                                      I suppose that all of the historic structures will be undermined, and have
                                      to be razed and rebuilt? I was only there one time. I liked the beautiful
                                      architecture but there was a sinister air in the French quarter. I felt
                                      like I was being followed a lot of the time. In fact, I was. Some muggers
                                      followed me out of the French quarter but I knew I could race them to my
                                      hotel and did.

                                      -- K.

                                      >From: "ellen 'windy' lytle" <thedgey@...>
                                      >Reply-To: unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] Nagin's Lake
                                      >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:15:15 -0500
                                      >
                                      >really? two hundred is miniscule compared w/10,000 - are you sure?- maybe
                                      >now a week plus later we can finally find some the innocent animals who
                                      >didn't ask to be there in the first place...thedge
                                      >----- Original Message -----
                                      >From: "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@...>
                                      >To: <unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:56 AM
                                      >Subject: Re: [Unmuzzled Ox] Nagin's Lake
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > I'm an inverted idealist. But I am sorry for the artists and people who
                                      > > lost their books.
                                      > >
                                      > > I read twenty years ago that this would happen to New Orleans. They
                                      > > diverted the Mississippi to make the city where it is. Colossal hubris
                                      >to
                                      > > move a whole river. The rivers don't like being shoved around, and
                                      >finally
                                      > > they shove back. The river god is demonic that way.
                                      > >
                                      > > Do people really believe in IQ scores?
                                      > >
                                      > > I read the Steven Jay Gould book against them as being bound up in
                                      >cultural
                                      > > specificities. But then they make their way back now and then
                                      >irregardless
                                      > > it seems.
                                      > >
                                      > > I do believe in idealism, but only if it's grounded in realism.
                                      > >
                                      > > Now they're going to rebuild the city at the cost of 50 billion dollars,
                                      > > only to have it flood again in ten years. It's funny.
                                      > >
                                      > > I like the early jazz of New Orleans. I found myself humming a lot of
                                      >it,
                                      > > and wishing I could play boogie woogie piano. I like the way those bass
                                      > > rhythms roll.
                                      > >
                                      > > Has everybody heard Professor Longhair?
                                      > >
                                      > > The Wild Tchopitoulas? (This one is a faux-Indian band that the Neville
                                      > > brothers are in, and behind -- very good lead singer whose name I can't
                                      > > recall -- hot !). Now the death estimates are lowered from 10,000 to
                                      >about
                                      > > two hundred I hear.
                                      > >
                                      > > -- Kirby
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Kirby Olson
                                      We ll need some good engineers. Then we ll need some good new entrepreneurs to bring the city back to life with cash influx and sensible ideas. I always liked
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Sep 10, 2005
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                                        We'll need some good engineers.

                                        Then we'll need some good new entrepreneurs to bring the city back to life
                                        with cash influx and sensible ideas.

                                        I always liked the idea of Raymond Aron's that a country can live without
                                        its artists, but it can't live for one day without its entrepreneurs.

                                        But I'd rather listen to Longhair at Tipitina's. (Wasn't it a bar?)

                                        If it's in the French quarter, then it's intact. That area survived, I
                                        think.
                                      • souvienstoidemoublier
                                        Tipitina s is named after the Professor Longhair song, I don t believe he ever played there . . . I could check on it, I have a number of books on New Orleans
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Sep 11, 2005
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                                          Tipitina's is named after the Professor Longhair song, I don't believe
                                          he ever played there . . . I could check on it, I have a number of
                                          books on New Orleans rhythm and blues, blues, soul, and pop . . . I
                                          think it is outside the French Quarter a good bit [the French Quarter
                                          is just a small part, there are a lot of places like the Commander's
                                          Palace and Dookie Chase that are outside, if I remember right, like
                                          Commander's Palace is, I think in the Garden District, Dookie Chase
                                          across from some HUGE projects], I have been there, only it was about
                                          18 years ago, the Sheila Ryan Lottery weekend when there was a 54
                                          Million Dollar jackpot in the Florida Lottery. I went to see Clapton
                                          on the Chronicles tour with Mark Knopfler and Buckwheat Zydeco at the
                                          Superdome the night before and went to Zachary Richard at Tipitina's on
                                          Saturday night . . . I had five numbers of the six, and two related
                                          tickets, I won $2,727 total, and if I had had a 27 on my ticket, I
                                          would have won 27 million dollars. I took this as a sign that I should
                                          start playing 27, but this was a mistake . . .

                                          --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson" <kirbyolson2@h...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > We'll need some good engineers.
                                          >
                                          > Then we'll need some good new entrepreneurs to bring the city back to
                                          life
                                          > with cash influx and sensible ideas.
                                          >
                                          > I always liked the idea of Raymond Aron's that a country can live
                                          without
                                          > its artists, but it can't live for one day without its entrepreneurs.
                                          >
                                          > But I'd rather listen to Longhair at Tipitina's. (Wasn't it a bar?)
                                          >
                                          > If it's in the French quarter, then it's intact. That area survived,
                                          I
                                          > think.
                                        • souvienstoidemoublier
                                          Here is where Tipitina s is, it is pretty far from the French Quarter, http://tinyurl.com/d4buc ... believe ... Quarter ... Commander s ... about ... Clapton
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Sep 11, 2005
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                                            Here is where Tipitina's is, it is pretty far from the French
                                            Quarter,

                                            http://tinyurl.com/d4buc

                                            --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, souvienstoidemoublier
                                            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                            > Tipitina's is named after the Professor Longhair song, I don't
                                            believe
                                            > he ever played there . . . I could check on it, I have a number of
                                            > books on New Orleans rhythm and blues, blues, soul, and pop . . . I
                                            > think it is outside the French Quarter a good bit [the French
                                            Quarter
                                            > is just a small part, there are a lot of places like the
                                            Commander's
                                            > Palace and Dookie Chase that are outside, if I remember right, like
                                            > Commander's Palace is, I think in the Garden District, Dookie Chase
                                            > across from some HUGE projects], I have been there, only it was
                                            about
                                            > 18 years ago, the Sheila Ryan Lottery weekend when there was a 54
                                            > Million Dollar jackpot in the Florida Lottery. I went to see
                                            Clapton
                                            > on the Chronicles tour with Mark Knopfler and Buckwheat Zydeco at
                                            the
                                            > Superdome the night before and went to Zachary Richard at
                                            Tipitina's on
                                            > Saturday night . . . I had five numbers of the six, and two related
                                            > tickets, I won $2,727 total, and if I had had a 27 on my ticket, I
                                            > would have won 27 million dollars. I took this as a sign that I
                                            should
                                            > start playing 27, but this was a mistake . . .
                                            >
                                            > --- In unmuzzledox@yahoogroups.com, "Kirby Olson"
                                            <kirbyolson2@h...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > We'll need some good engineers.
                                            > >
                                            > > Then we'll need some good new entrepreneurs to bring the city
                                            back to
                                            > life
                                            > > with cash influx and sensible ideas.
                                            > >
                                            > > I always liked the idea of Raymond Aron's that a country can live
                                            > without
                                            > > its artists, but it can't live for one day without its
                                            entrepreneurs.
                                            > >
                                            > > But I'd rather listen to Longhair at Tipitina's. (Wasn't it a
                                            bar?)
                                            > >
                                            > > If it's in the French quarter, then it's intact. That area
                                            survived,
                                            > I
                                            > > think.
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