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Re: [Ultralight Backpacking] question for quilters

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  • Howard Johnson
    I made a quilt, well sort of. I bought a down sleeping bag liner. It s a half shell made for giving a regular bag extra warmth. So it is just sort of a top
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 13, 2003
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      I made a quilt, well sort of. I bought a down sleeping bag liner. It's a half shell made for
      giving a regular bag extra warmth. So it is just sort of a top to a bag with no bottom. The one I
      got was down, not fiberfil. Down is lighter than fiberfill and compresses smaller, for a smaller
      pack load. Both have problems if they get "soaked", but a small amount of moisture does not impair
      down too much. (You should read what Jarine has to say about this. He went with fiberfil.) I'm
      extremely careful not to get it soaked and I'm religious about getting it out mid-day for some
      airing out, during lunch or whenever I get a dry break in the day. [Just to be clear, I'm prepared
      to sit up all night in a rare freak hard blowing rainstorm in my rain gear, if need be, and with the
      down liner safely packed in plastic to keep it dry. Later, once the rain has let up, I can nap to
      catch up on my sleep. Thus, I'd rather be dry and tired than fighting hypothermia. If the rain
      keeps up and you don't have an adiquate shelter to keep the drips out, it might be time to get back
      to your car.]

      I sowed velcro to the bottom of the down liner and glued velcro to a ridge-rest pad so together they
      make a hybrid bag. The liner is 16 oz, which is down 2 lb from my 3 lb. bag. And the pad weight is
      free because I take it anyway. Actually, I cut some of the weight off the pad. You don't really
      need the corners. I'll try to get some photos online in the next couple of weeks.

      I use the hybrid bag setup together with hotsack (ultralight weight vapor barrier) from Western
      Mountaineering. I've really come to like the hot sack. Its 4.5 oz made of special silver coated
      ripstop.

      I used this combo (liner & pad, +vb) for two trips this summer, one 4 day coastal trip and one 10
      day Sierra trip (which unfortunately got cut short to 5 days because I got ill half way. But we did
      carry the 10 day load.)

      My experience is that 1) you can comfortably lower you weight with a quilt. 2) The pad will
      adequately keep you warm on your underside. 3) Drafts, however, must be plugged because they can
      give you pesky cold spots, for me especially cold feet or legs (this was the reason I stitched to
      the full velcro seal). 4) Whatever you do, test it at home and on single night trips before heading
      out on a longer trip with it. 5) Because I also slept in my clothing my upper body was fine but
      legs less so. I found that using my coat wrapped around my legs helped. Also warming up before
      sleep with some exercise helps, and several layers of fresh warm dry socks (used only for sleeping
      - to keep them fully dry) helped.

      Heat loss occurs from a) convection (air flow and draftiness), b) normal skin evaporation (This can
      be substantial and is also what causes a wind chill factor), and c) black body radiation. The vapor
      barrier liner can stop b, and help with a, but you'll need to learn how to use it. When I first got
      mine the first thing I noticed was that I was getting quite moist at night. Because I was also
      sleeping in my cloths I was worried that I might get very cold in the morning when I needed to get
      up. But I haven't yet had a problem with this, and found that I dried out fairly quickly in the
      morning from the dry morning air and my body heat. Another issue was overheating at night.
      Normally your body sweats to correct for overheating. But when you're in a hot sack you just sweat,
      and sweat and you don't cool off from it. So I learned to adjust how far up on me I pulled the hot
      sack. Sometimes I just have it around my feet and knees when its really warm out. As it gets
      colder out, I pull it up around my waist, or half way up my chest. When its really cold I pull it
      up so just my nose is sticking out. This adjustment is important for another reason too. If you
      sweat a lot in the hot-sack it can really begin to stink I've mostly solved this by a) washing my
      feet before bed and wearing clean socks just used for sleeping, and b) from time to time washing the
      whole thing in a creek or lake. (I'll be interested to hear how well these things work in the cold,
      dry desert).

      Again, whatever you do, test it, test it, test it, before heading out for a multi-day trip, and be
      prepared to make some adjustments to it.

      Unresolved problems: The velcro started pulling up from my pad towards the end of my 10 days of
      using it. Also my sleeping bag liner is a bit too small. I just barely fit in it. Because I have
      some back discomfort issues, I tend to want to roll around a bit to get comfortable. Its harder to
      do this in this setup. I'm thinking about taking both my 3 lb. bag and 1lb liner on my next
      freezing trip. The liner is lighter weight and provides more warmth than cloths of the same weight,
      i.e. 2 pair of long underwear. And my 3 lb down bag, even with all my cloths on, is a tad on the
      cool side in 32 degree weather, even though its rated for 15 degrees. Perhaps the better soln, is a
      lighter weight bag. Mine isn't the lightest one.

      Finally there is a critters issue: mosquitoes and ants. I'll let you work on this one. :-)

      -H

      Now for the 4 or 5 of you still reading this, P.S. Peace is breaking out...

      Hope to see as many people as possible at the upcoming worldwide
      peace rally on January 18th. Yes, we know the corporate news won't
      report it accurately, again, no matter how many hundreds of thousands
      show up this time, but you'll know the truth. Peace is breaking out
      from the people.


      Please listen to the "Not in our name" music sound track and info at:
      * http://www.kzpg.com/Not_In_Our_Name.mp3
      * http://www.kzpg.com/Jan_18th_peace_rally_info.MP3


      We must stop our government from using our good name for its dirty
      deeds. Sorry for blasting this out to literally everyone in my address
      book. But the U.S. is preparing to spend hundreds of billions of
      dollars to commit awful crimes which you'll bear responsibility for in
      coming years.

      We must try to stop this government from doing more destruction.
      Many of us will be downtown in San Francisco on the 18th, along
      with hundreds of thousands of other common, decent people to send
      the message that this is still a democracy and we still care what it does.
      Please come out on January 18th and stand for something worth
      standing for: global peace via justice. "You can bomb the world into
      pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace." - Michael Feranti, Spearhead

      -- Howard

      _________________________________________________________________________________
      Teach me humility that we may be.


      "Jamie " wrote:

      > What are the main points I should be considering if I make a quilt?
      > I was reading through old post and someone said they used a tyvek(?)
      > type material as the main body and then for warmth/fill used
      > polyfil. I probably don't have the brands right, but am more
      > interested in the concept behind the materials used.
      >
      > Any help is greatly appreciated. Since I live in a fairly mild temp.
      > area I'm stongly entertaining the idea of making a quilt. I have my
      > bcakpack base weight down to 13lbs (w/o water, food, and clothing)
      > and am hoping to drop than a pound or two more if possible.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Jamie in AZ
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jamie <jdeben@hotmail.com>
      Thanks for all the good info. Howard. I have decided to check into the Ray Way a bit more before I decide whethe or not to go with the quilt idea. Since you
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 23, 2003
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        Thanks for all the good info. Howard. I have decided to check into
        the Ray Way a bit more before I decide whethe or not to go with the
        quilt idea.


        Since you keep bringing up, I'm curious why you are so anti-GWBush?

        Jamie in AZ
      • Tom Palmer
        Hi Howard, Where did you get the down bag liner? What are the dimensions? In a hammock, you do not need as big of a quilt and this may work for me. Thanks for
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 2 7:32 AM
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          Hi Howard,

          Where did you get the down bag liner? What are the dimensions? In a
          hammock, you do not need as big of a quilt and this may work for me.
          Thanks for a nice group,

          Palmer

          --- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, Howard Johnson
          <hwj@k...> wrote:
          > I made a quilt, well sort of. I bought a down sleeping bag liner.
          It's a half shell made for
          > giving a regular bag extra warmth. So it is just sort of a top to
          a bag with no bottom. The one I
          > got was down, not fiberfil. Down is lighter than fiberfill and
          compresses smaller, for a smaller
          > pack load. Both have problems if they get "soaked", but a small
          amount of moisture does not impair
          > down too much. (You should read what Jarine has to say about
          this. He went with fiberfil.) I'm
          > extremely careful not to get it soaked and I'm religious about
          getting it out mid-day for some
          > airing out, during lunch or whenever I get a dry break in the day.
          [Just to be clear, I'm prepared
          > to sit up all night in a rare freak hard blowing rainstorm in my
          rain gear, if need be, and with the
          > down liner safely packed in plastic to keep it dry. Later, once
          the rain has let up, I can nap to
          > catch up on my sleep. Thus, I'd rather be dry and tired than
          fighting hypothermia. If the rain
          > keeps up and you don't have an adiquate shelter to keep the drips
          out, it might be time to get back
          > to your car.]
          >
          > I sowed velcro to the bottom of the down liner and glued velcro to
          a ridge-rest pad so together they
          > make a hybrid bag. The liner is 16 oz, which is down 2 lb from my
          3 lb. bag. And the pad weight is
          > free because I take it anyway. Actually, I cut some of the weight
          off the pad. You don't really
          > need the corners. I'll try to get some photos online in the next
          couple of weeks.
          >
          > I use the hybrid bag setup together with hotsack (ultralight weight
          vapor barrier) from Western
          > Mountaineering. I've really come to like the hot sack. Its 4.5 oz
          made of special silver coated
          > ripstop.
          >
          > I used this combo (liner & pad, +vb) for two trips this summer, one
          4 day coastal trip and one 10
          > day Sierra trip (which unfortunately got cut short to 5 days
          because I got ill half way. But we did
          > carry the 10 day load.)
          >
          > My experience is that 1) you can comfortably lower you weight with
          a quilt. 2) The pad will
          > adequately keep you warm on your underside. 3) Drafts, however,
          must be plugged because they can
          > give you pesky cold spots, for me especially cold feet or legs
          (this was the reason I stitched to
          > the full velcro seal). 4) Whatever you do, test it at home and on
          single night trips before heading
          > out on a longer trip with it. 5) Because I also slept in my
          clothing my upper body was fine but
          > legs less so. I found that using my coat wrapped around my legs
          helped. Also warming up before
          > sleep with some exercise helps, and several layers of fresh warm
          dry socks (used only for sleeping
          > - to keep them fully dry) helped.
          >
          > Heat loss occurs from a) convection (air flow and draftiness), b)
          normal skin evaporation (This can
          > be substantial and is also what causes a wind chill factor), and c)
          black body radiation. The vapor
          > barrier liner can stop b, and help with a, but you'll need to learn
          how to use it. When I first got
          > mine the first thing I noticed was that I was getting quite moist
          at night. Because I was also
          > sleeping in my cloths I was worried that I might get very cold in
          the morning when I needed to get
          > up. But I haven't yet had a problem with this, and found that I
          dried out fairly quickly in the
          > morning from the dry morning air and my body heat. Another issue
          was overheating at night.
          > Normally your body sweats to correct for overheating. But when
          you're in a hot sack you just sweat,
          > and sweat and you don't cool off from it. So I learned to adjust
          how far up on me I pulled the hot
          > sack. Sometimes I just have it around my feet and knees when its
          really warm out. As it gets
          > colder out, I pull it up around my waist, or half way up my chest.
          When its really cold I pull it
          > up so just my nose is sticking out. This adjustment is important
          for another reason too. If you
          > sweat a lot in the hot-sack it can really begin to stink I've
          mostly solved this by a) washing my
          > feet before bed and wearing clean socks just used for sleeping, and
          b) from time to time washing the
          > whole thing in a creek or lake. (I'll be interested to hear how
          well these things work in the cold,
          > dry desert).
          >
          > Again, whatever you do, test it, test it, test it, before heading
          out for a multi-day trip, and be
          > prepared to make some adjustments to it.
          >
          > Unresolved problems: The velcro started pulling up from my pad
          towards the end of my 10 days of
          > using it. Also my sleeping bag liner is a bit too small. I just
          barely fit in it. Because I have
          > some back discomfort issues, I tend to want to roll around a bit to
          get comfortable. Its harder to
          > do this in this setup. I'm thinking about taking both my 3 lb. bag
          and 1lb liner on my next
          > freezing trip. The liner is lighter weight and provides more
          warmth than cloths of the same weight,
          > i.e. 2 pair of long underwear. And my 3 lb down bag, even with all
          my cloths on, is a tad on the
          > cool side in 32 degree weather, even though its rated for 15
          degrees. Perhaps the better soln, is a
          > lighter weight bag. Mine isn't the lightest one.
          >
          > Finally there is a critters issue: mosquitoes and ants. I'll let
          you work on this one. :-)
          >
          > -H
          >
          > Now for the 4 or 5 of you still reading this, P.S. Peace is
          breaking out...
          >
          > Hope to see as many people as possible at the upcoming worldwide
          > peace rally on January 18th. Yes, we know the corporate news won't
          > report it accurately, again, no matter how many hundreds of
          thousands
          > show up this time, but you'll know the truth. Peace is breaking out
          > from the people.
          >
          >
          > Please listen to the "Not in our name" music sound track and info
          at:
          > * http://www.kzpg.com/Not_In_Our_Name.mp3
          > * http://www.kzpg.com/Jan_18th_peace_rally_info.MP3
          >
          >
          > We must stop our government from using our good name for its dirty
          > deeds. Sorry for blasting this out to literally everyone in my
          address
          > book. But the U.S. is preparing to spend hundreds of billions of
          > dollars to commit awful crimes which you'll bear responsibility for
          in
          > coming years.
          >
          > We must try to stop this government from doing more destruction.
          > Many of us will be downtown in San Francisco on the 18th, along
          > with hundreds of thousands of other common, decent people to send
          > the message that this is still a democracy and we still care what
          it does.
          > Please come out on January 18th and stand for something worth
          > standing for: global peace via justice. "You can bomb the world
          into
          > pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace." - Michael Feranti,
          Spearhead
          >
          > -- Howard
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          ___________
          > Teach me humility that we may be.
          >
          >
          > "Jamie " wrote:
          >
          > > What are the main points I should be considering if I make a
          quilt?
          > > I was reading through old post and someone said they used a tyvek
          (?)
          > > type material as the main body and then for warmth/fill used
          > > polyfil. I probably don't have the brands right, but am more
          > > interested in the concept behind the materials used.
          > >
          > > Any help is greatly appreciated. Since I live in a fairly mild
          temp.
          > > area I'm stongly entertaining the idea of making a quilt. I have
          my
          > > bcakpack base weight down to 13lbs (w/o water, food, and clothing)
          > > and am hoping to drop than a pound or two more if possible.
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Jamie in AZ
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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