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DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

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  • bensbarn2001
    Hi (Kevin), Long time no post, but I ve finally got around to adding another room to our house and it s got about 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 22, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi (Kevin),

      Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got about 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.

      Regards,

      Ben
    • Kevin Hawkins
      The gateway doesn t effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It can additionally
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 22, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
        and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
        can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
        same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
        can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

        Scenes are just a collection of group states that are triggered by
        'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
        being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
        else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
        touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

        HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
        a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
        trigger application but it does of course report the resulting lighting
        group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
        application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
        role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
        wish..

        K

        On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
        > Hi (Kevin),
        >
        > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got about 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Ben
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Ben Wilkinson
        Thanks for this Kevin. I ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet. I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 23, 2012
        • 0 Attachment

          Thanks for this Kevin.

           

          I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

           

          I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there something which documents this?  

           

          Thanks again

           

          Ben

           

          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
          Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

           

           

          The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
          and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
          can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
          same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
          can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

          Scenes are just a collection of group states that are triggered by
          'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
          being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
          else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
          touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

          HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
          a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
          trigger application but it does of course report the resulting lighting
          group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
          application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
          role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
          wish..

          K

          On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
          > Hi (Kevin),
          >
          > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got about 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Ben
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

           


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        • Ben Wilkinson
          I ve been doing some more work on this today. Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit. I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I m
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 25, 2012
          • 0 Attachment

            I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

             

            Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

            I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

             

            Then I set up a custom light with address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

             

            Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

             

            ,k2405<level>00

             

            when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

            Normal lights show as

            ,k2005<level>00

             

            Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

             

            Thanks

             

            Ben

            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
            Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

             

             

            Thanks for this Kevin.

             

            I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

             

            I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

             

            Thanks again

             

            Ben

             

            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
            Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

             

              < o>

            The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
            and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
            can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
            same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
            can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

            Scenes are just a collection of group states that are triggered by
            'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
            being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
            else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
            touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

            HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
            a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
            trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
            group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
            application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
            role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
            wish..

            K

            On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
            > Hi (Kevin),
            >
            > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got about 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Ben
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            & g! t;

             


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          • Ben Wilkinson
            Success! Works ok now doing what I described below. The problem was that I d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn t like that. Now I can
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
            • 0 Attachment

              Success!

               

              Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

               

              Ben

               

              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
              Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

               

               

              I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

               

              Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

              I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

               

              Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

               

              Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

               

              ,k2405<level>00

               

              when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

              Normal lights show as

              ,k2005<level>00

               

              Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

               

              Thanks

               

              Ben

              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
              Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

               

               

              Thanks for this Kevin.

               

              I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

               

              I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

               

              Thanks again

               

              Ben

               

              ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
              Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

               

                < o>

              The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
              and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
              can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
              same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
              ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

              Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
              'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
              being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
              else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
              touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

              HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
              a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
              trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
              group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
              application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
              role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
              wish..

              K

              On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
              > Hi (Kevin),
              >
              > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Ben
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              & g! t;

               


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            • Paul Gale
              That s cool :) I ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway - I ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro. Can you see any
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
              • 0 Attachment

                That’s cool J

                 

                I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                 

                Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                 

                Paul.

                 

                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                 




                Success!

                 

                Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                 

                Ben

                 

                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                 

                 

                I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                 

                Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                 

                Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                 

                Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                 

                ,k2405<level>00

                 

                when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                Normal lights show as

                ,k2005<level>00

                 

                Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                 

                Thanks

                 

                Ben

                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                 

                 

                Thanks for this Kevin.

                 

                I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                 

                I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                 

                Thanks again

                 

                Ben

                 

                ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                 

                  < o>

                The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                wish..

                K

                On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                > Hi (Kevin),
                >
                > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Ben
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                & g! t;

                 


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              • Ben Wilkinson
                The room I m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                • 0 Attachment

                  The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                   

                  My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                   

                  Ben

                   

                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                  Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                   

                   

                  That’s cool J

                   

                  I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                   

                  Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                   

                  Paul.

                   

                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                  Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                   





                  Success!

                   

                  Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                   

                  Ben

                   

                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                  Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                   

                   

                  I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                   

                  Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                  I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                   

                  Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                   

                  Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                   

                  ,k2405<level>00

                   

                  when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                  Normal lights show as

                  ,k2005<level>00

                   

                  Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                   

                  Thanks

                   

                  Ben

                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                  Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                   

                   

                  Thanks for this Kevin.

                   

                  I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                   

                  I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                   

                  Thanks again

                   

                  Ben

                   

                  ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                  Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                   

                    < o>

                  The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                  and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                  can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                  same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                  ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                  Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                  'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                  being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                  else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                  touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                  HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                  a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                  trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                  group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                  application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                  role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                  wish..

                  K

                  On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                  > Hi (Kevin),
                  >
                  > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Ben
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  & g! t;

                   


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                • Gavin Hill
                  Ben, I m a C-Bus novice too, but I have seen on a PAC, TS or Wiser you can define a scene and then tell that scene to be triggered by a group. So Watch TV
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ben, I'm a C-Bus novice too, but I have seen on a PAC, TS or Wiser you can define a scene and then tell that scene to be triggered by a group.  So "Watch TV" scene could be triggered by a lighting group "100 - Trigger TV" being set from 0 to 255 (OFF to ON).  When that lighting group is activated, the scene in the TS/PAC/Wiser is triggered.  This could be what KEvin was referring to.  I've never seen the approach you are following where a different scene is triggered based on the level of a lighting group - I didn't know this was possible (and from your experiement it's not).

                    Gavin.


                    On 26 November 2012 12:46, Ben Wilkinson <ben@...> wrote:
                     

                    The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                     

                    My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                     

                    Ben

                     

                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                    Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51


                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                     

                     

                    That’s cool J

                     

                    I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                     

                    Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                     

                    Paul.

                     

                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                    Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                     





                    Success!

                     

                    Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                     

                    Ben

                     

                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                    Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                     

                     

                    I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                     

                    Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                    I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                     

                    Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                     

                    Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                     

                    ,k2405<level>00

                     

                    when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                    Normal lights show as

                    ,k2005<level>00

                     

                    Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                     

                    Thanks

                     

                    Ben

                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                    Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                     

                     

                    Thanks for this Kevin.

                     

                    I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                     

                    I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                     

                    Thanks again

                     

                    Ben

                     

                    ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                    Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                     

                      < o>

                    The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                    and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                    can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                    same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                    ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                    Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                    'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                    being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                    else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                    touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                    HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                    a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                    trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                    group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                    application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                    role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                    wish..

                    K

                    On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                    > Hi (Kevin),
                    >
                    > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Ben
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    & g! t;

                     


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                  • Paul Gale
                    Not sure what your buffer overflow problems would be - not heard of that before. In a number of places, I use button on my DLT s to set a group on/off and HV
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Not sure what your buffer overflow problems would be – not heard of that before.

                       

                      In a number of places, I use button on my DLT’s to set a group on/off and HV with the gateway detects this and performs all the macros etc that I need. The button is linked with a virtual group, so it’s not directly associated with a CB dimmer etc. This way the button can be set to do some logic processing before a light or appliance is actually turned on/off. This is done through the X10  module summary screen in HVXL – so I have on/off actions for the virtual CB group that actually control the lights/appliances.

                       

                      Of course you can also turn these groups on/off/dim to reflect the status on the DLT. Very powerful J

                       

                      Is that what you meant – that could be one way to trigger the scene? I guess you could also toggle through different scenes with one button – linked with some whole house text to speech to announce the scene – movie mode etc etc ;) It does rely on HV and the gateway to be up and stable but I’ve not had any issues for a long time J

                       

                      Paul.

                       

                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                      Sent: 26 November 2012 10:47
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       




                      The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                       

                      My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                       

                      Ben

                       

                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                      Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       

                       

                      That’s cool J

                       

                      I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                       

                      Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                       

                      Paul.

                       

                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                      Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       




                      Success!

                       

                      Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                       

                      Ben

                       

                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                      Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       

                       

                      I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                       

                      Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                      I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                       

                      Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                       

                      Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                       

                      ,k2405<level>00

                       

                      when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                      Normal lights show as

                      ,k2005<level>00

                       

                      Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                       

                      Thanks

                       

                      Ben

                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                      Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       

                       

                      Thanks for this Kevin.

                       

                      I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                       

                      I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                       

                      Thanks again

                       

                      Ben

                       

                      ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                      Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                       

                        < o>

                      The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                      and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                      can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                      same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                      ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                      Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                      'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                      being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                      else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                      touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                      HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                      a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                      trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                      group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                      application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                      role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                      wish..

                      K

                      On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                      > Hi (Kevin),
                      >
                      > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Ben
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      & g! t;

                       


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                    • Kevin Hawkins
                      Glad it s working Ben - best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think. BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                        Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                        If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                        If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus commands as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.     There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                        One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual group and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                           K


                         On 26/11/2012 10:46, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                        The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                         

                        My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                         

                        Ben

                         

                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                        Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                         

                         

                        That’s cool J

                         

                        I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                         

                        Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                         

                        Paul.

                         

                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                        Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                         





                        Success!

                         

                        Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                         

                        Ben

                         

                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                        Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                         

                         

                        I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                         

                        Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                        I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                         

                        Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                         

                        Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                         

                        ,k2405<level>00

                         

                        when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                        Normal lights show as

                        ,k2005<level>00

                         

                        Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                         

                        Thanks

                         

                        Ben

                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                        Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                         

                         

                        Thanks for this Kevin.

                         

                        I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                         

                        I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                         

                        Thanks again

                         

                        Ben

                         

                        ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                        Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                         

                          < o>

                        The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                        and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                        can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                        same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                        ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                        Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                        'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                        being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                        else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                        touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                        HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                        a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                        trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                        group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                        application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                        role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                        wish..

                        K

                        On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                        > Hi (Kevin),
                        >
                        > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Ben
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        & g! t;

                         


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                      • Ben Wilkinson
                        Thanks for this Gavin, Just one thing to clarify. I m not triggering a different scene based on a group level. I just wanted to be able to trigger the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Thanks for this Gavin,

                           

                          Just one thing to clarify.  I’m not triggering a different scene based on a group level.   I just wanted to be able to trigger the scenes that are stored in DLT and Saturn switches from HV.   I can now do that, and did it because I thought there would be serial port buffer problems in HV if I didn’t – although Kevin has said this is not the case so I probably didn’t need to do all this.  It was a useful exercise anyway, though.

                           

                          Ben

                           

                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gavin Hill
                          Sent: 26 November 2012 11:10
                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           

                           

                          Ben, I'm a C-Bus novice too, but I have seen on a PAC, TS or Wiser you can define a scene and then tell that scene to be triggered by a group.  So "Watch TV" scene could be triggered by a lighting group "100 - Trigger TV" being set from 0 to 255 (OFF to ON).  When that lighting group is activated, the scene in the TS/PAC/Wiser is triggered.  This could be what KEvin was referring to.  I've never seen the approach you are following where a different scene is triggered based on the level of a lighting group - I didn't know this was possible (and from your experiement it's not).

                          Gavin.

                           

                          On 26 November 2012 12:46, Ben Wilkinson <ben@...> wrote:

                           

                          The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                           

                          My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                           

                          Ben

                           

                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                          Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51


                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           

                           

                          That’s cool J

                           

                          I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                           

                          Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                           

                          Paul.

                           

                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                          Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           




                          Success!

                           

                          Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                           

                          Ben

                           

                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                          Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           

                           

                          I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                           

                          Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                          I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                           

                          Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                           

                          Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                           

                          ,k2405<level>00

                           

                          when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                          Normal lights show as

                          ,k2005<level>00

                           

                          Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                           

                          Thanks

                           

                          Ben

                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                          Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           

                           

                          Thanks for this Kevin.

                           

                          I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                           

                          I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                           

                          Thanks again

                           

                          Ben

                           

                          ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                          Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                           

                            < o>

                          The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                          and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                          can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                          same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                          ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                          Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                          'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                          being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                          else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                          touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                          HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                          a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                          trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                          group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                          application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                          role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                          wish..

                          K

                          On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                          > Hi (Kevin),
                          >
                          > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Ben
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          & g! t;

                           


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                        • Ben Wilkinson
                          Thanks a lot for this Kevin. As usual, tons of useful info! I m glad about the buffering. I thought I ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                             

                            Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been pressed though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                             

                            Regards,

                             

                            Ben

                             

                            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                            Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             

                             

                            Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                            Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                            If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                            If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus commands as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.     There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                            One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual group and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                               K


                             On 26/11/2012 10:46, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                            The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                             

                            My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                             

                            Ben

                             

                            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                            Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             

                             

                            That’s cool J

                             

                            I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                             

                            Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                             

                            Paul.

                             

                            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                            Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             






                            Success!

                             

                            Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                             

                            Ben

                             

                            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                            Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             

                             

                            I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                             

                            Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                            I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                             

                            Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                             

                            Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                             

                            ,k2405<level>00

                             

                            when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                            Normal lights show as

                            ,k2005<level>00

                             

                            Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                             

                            Thanks

                             

                            Ben

                            From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                            Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             

                             

                            Thanks for this Kevin.

                             

                            I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                             

                            I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                             

                            Thanks again

                             

                            Ben

                             

                            ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                            Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                            To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                             

                              < o>

                            The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                            and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                            can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                            same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                            ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                            Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                            'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                            being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                            else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                            touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                            HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                            a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                            trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                            group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                            application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                            role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                            wish..

                            K

                            On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                            > Hi (Kevin),
                            >
                            > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Ben
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            & g! t;

                             


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                          • Ben Wilkinson
                            Thanks for this Paul. I can see what you ve done (also see that the concept is described in Kevin s gateway doc). I probably should have done it this way
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 26, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Thanks for this Paul.   I can see what you’ve done (also see that the concept is described in Kevin’s gateway doc).   I probably should have done it this way from the start, as seems the HV serial buffer problems have been fixed very cleverly by Kevin.    Having done the scenes, I think it’s pretty easy to just tag a virtual group onto each switch and save setting them up in HV.    That way I can tell when each button has been pressed, like you are, set the scene in Cbus and do anything else I need doing in HV.     If I wanted to use one button to toggle through scenes (which is a nice idea), then I’d have to use HV alone.

                               

                               

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                              Sent: 26 November 2012 13:35
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               

                               

                              Not sure what your buffer overflow problems would be – not heard of that before.

                               

                              In a number of places, I use button on my DLT’s to set a group on/off and HV with the gateway detects this and performs all the macros etc that I need. The button is linked with a virtual group, so it’s not directly associated with a CB dimmer etc. This way the button can be set to do some logic processing before a light or appliance is actually turned on/off. This is done through the X10  module summary screen in HVXL – so I have on/off actions for the virtual CB group that actually control the lights/appliances.

                               

                              Of course you can also turn these groups on/off/dim to reflect the status on the DLT. Very powerful J

                               

                              Is that what you meant – that could be one way to trigger the scene? I guess you could also toggle through different scenes with one button – linked with some whole house text to speech to announce the scene – movie mode etc etc ;) It does rely on HV and the gateway to be up and stable but I’ve not had any issues for a long time J

                               

                              Paul.

                               

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                              Sent: 26 November 2012 10:47
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               





                              The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                               

                              My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                               

                              Ben

                               

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                              Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               

                               

                              That’s cool J

                               

                              I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                               

                              Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                               

                              Paul.

                               

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                              Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               





                              Success!

                               

                              Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                               

                              Ben

                               

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                              Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               

                               

                              I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                               

                              Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                              I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                               

                              Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                               

                              Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                               

                              ,k2405<level>00

                               

                              when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                              Normal lights show as

                              ,k2005<level>00

                               

                              Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                               

                              Thanks

                               

                              Ben

                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                              Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               

                               

                              Thanks for this Kevin.

                               

                              I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                               

                              I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                               

                              Thanks again

                               

                              Ben

                               

                              ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                              Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                               

                                < o>

                              The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                              and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                              can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                              same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                              ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                              Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                              'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                              being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                              else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                              touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                              HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                              a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                              trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                              group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                              application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                              role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                              wish..

                              K

                              On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                              > Hi (Kevin),
                              >
                              > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Ben
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              & g! t;

                               


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                            • Paul Gale
                              Yes - I love it, very flexible :) Paul. From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson Sent: 26 November
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 28, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Yes – I love it, very flexible J

                                 

                                Paul.

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                Sent: 26 November 2012 22:36
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 




                                Thanks for this Paul.   I can see what you’ve done (also see that the concept is described in Kevin’s gateway doc).   I probably should have done it this way from the start, as seems the HV serial buffer problems have been fixed very cleverly by Kevin.    Having done the scenes, I think it’s pretty easy to just tag a virtual group onto each switch and save setting them up in HV.    That way I can tell when each button has been pressed, like you are, set the scene in Cbus and do anything else I need doing in HV.     If I wanted to use one button to toggle through scenes (which is a nice idea), then I’d have to use HV alone.

                                 

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                                Sent: 26 November 2012 13:35
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 

                                 

                                Not sure what your buffer overflow problems would be – not heard of that before.

                                 

                                In a number of places, I use button on my DLT’s to set a group on/off and HV with the gateway detects this and performs all the macros etc that I need. The button is linked with a virtual group, so it’s not directly associated with a CB dimmer etc. This way the button can be set to do some logic processing before a light or appliance is actually turned on/off. This is done through the X10  module summary screen in HVXL – so I have on/off actions for the virtual CB group that actually control the lights/appliances.

                                 

                                Of course you can also turn these groups on/off/dim to reflect the status on the DLT. Very powerful J

                                 

                                Is that what you meant – that could be one way to trigger the scene? I guess you could also toggle through different scenes with one button – linked with some whole house text to speech to announce the scene – movie mode etc etc ;) It does rely on HV and the gateway to be up and stable but I’ve not had any issues for a long time J

                                 

                                Paul.

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                Sent: 26 November 2012 10:47
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 




                                The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

                                 

                                My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

                                 

                                Ben

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
                                Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 

                                 

                                That’s cool J

                                 

                                I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

                                 

                                Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

                                 

                                Paul.

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 




                                Success!

                                 

                                Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

                                 

                                Ben

                                 

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 

                                 

                                I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

                                 

                                Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

                                I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

                                 

                                Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

                                 

                                Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

                                 

                                ,k2405<level>00

                                 

                                when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

                                Normal lights show as

                                ,k2005<level>00

                                 

                                Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

                                 

                                Thanks

                                 

                                Ben

                                From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 

                                 

                                Thanks for this Kevin.

                                 

                                I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

                                 

                                I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

                                 

                                Thanks again

                                 

                                Ben

                                 

                                ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
                                To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

                                 

                                  < o>

                                The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
                                and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
                                can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
                                same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
                                ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

                                Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
                                'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
                                being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
                                else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
                                touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

                                HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
                                a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
                                trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
                                group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
                                application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
                                role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
                                wish..

                                K

                                On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
                                > Hi (Kevin),
                                >
                                > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > Ben
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                & g! t;

                                 


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                              • Ben Wilkinson
                                Hi Kevin, Things have gone a bit wrong today. I ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they re
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 30, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Hi Kevin,

                                   

                                  Things have gone a bit wrong today.   I’ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they’re already doing).   So that’s involved mapping the X10 actions to virtual CBus groups (which I then switch from within a scene).   I have tried many things but not getting it to work.   I think I’ve followed your Gateway instructions properly (I’ve certainly read it about 10 times!) but not having much joy.   One issue seems to be that the gateway status page doesn’t show “Running ok”.     It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).  

                                   

                                  It shows: xAPRabbit : D: CB ID

                                   

                                  Then, underneath the matrix display of lights:

                                   

                                  Licence (xAP) CB HV MID:3268374032
                                  C-Bus SIM ID 0 SID:0 ver none
                                  Gateway ver beta 1 v22a 27th Jan 2009

                                   

                                  Also I now can’t seem to trigger scenes from HV like I could before.   The rest (old stuff) of the CBus light control is working fine. 

                                   

                                  Is there anything obvious I’m doing wrong you can tell from above message?

                                   

                                  Many thanks

                                   

                                  Ben

                                   

                                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                  Sent: 26 November 2012 22:08
                                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                   

                                   

                                  Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                                   

                                  Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been presse d! though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                                   

                                  Regards,

                                   

                                  Ben

                                   

                                  From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                  Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                                  To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gatew a! y

                                   

                                  < p class="MsoNormal"> 

                                  Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                                  Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                                  If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in ! the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                                  If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus command s! as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.   ;   There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                                  One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual gro u! p and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                                     K


                                   


                                • Kevin Hawkins
                                  The gateway is not able to see the C-Bus interface. I can t remember if you have the onboard C-Bus SIM or are using a C-Bus RS232 serial interface or maybe
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 30, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The gateway is not able to see the C-Bus interface.    I can't remember if you have the onboard C-Bus SIM or are using a C-Bus RS232 serial interface  or maybe a C-Bus Ethernet interface.   Regardless the C-Bus interface is not being found.  The first thing it does with C-Bus is to read the ID of the interface.    It will have completed it's HomeVision synchronisation but will be unable to see or control anything on C-Bus.    

                                    I'll assume you've power cycled the gateway a couple of times and it does the same ?

                                    This is likely caused by a physical change somewhere , probably in the cabling to the C-Bus RS232 interface or possibly  the C-Bus interface IP address being wrong if you're using an Ethernet interface (which I dont think you are).  if you're using an onboard SIM just check that it is seated correctly in it's socket.       

                                    K

                                    On 30/11/2012 16:37, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                    Hi Kevin,

                                     

                                    Things have gone a bit wrong today.   I’ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they’re already doing).   So that’s involved mapping the X10 actions to virtual CBus groups (which I then switch from within a scene).   I have tried many things but not getting it to work.   I think I’ve followed your Gateway instructions properly (I’ve certainly read it about 10 times!) but not having much joy.   One issue seems to be that the gateway status page doesn’t show “Running ok”.     It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).  

                                     

                                    It shows: xAPRabbit : D: CB ID

                                     

                                    Then, underneath the matrix display of lights:

                                     

                                    Licence (xAP) CB HV MID:3268374032
                                    C-Bus SIM ID 0 SID:0 ver none
                                    Gateway ver beta 1 v22a 27th Jan 2009

                                     

                                    Also I now can’t seem to trigger scenes from HV like I could before.   The rest (old stuff) of the CBus light control is working fine. 

                                     

                                    Is there anything obvious I’m doing wrong you can tell from above message?

                                     

                                    Many thanks

                                     

                                    Ben

                                     

                                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                    Sent: 26 November 2012 22:08
                                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                     

                                     

                                    Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                                     

                                    Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been presse d! though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                                     

                                    Regards,

                                     

                                    Ben

                                     

                                    From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                    Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                                    To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gatew a! y

                                     

                                    < p class="MsoNormal"> 

                                    Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                                    Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                                    If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in ! the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                                    If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus command s! as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.   ;   There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                                    One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual gro u! p and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                                       K


                                     



                                  • Ben Wilkinson
                                    HI Kevin, Thanks for the quick reply. I am using the serial interface. I have a feeling this might have been happening for some time as I can t remember
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 30, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      HI Kevin,

                                       

                                      Thanks for the quick reply.   I am using the serial interface.   I have a feeling this might have been happening for some time as I can’t remember ever having seen the state of the CBus lights (although as I’ve never needed it until now, might have been there before).   All commands to the interface are working though (I did get the scene setting triggers working after I wrote first).   So I can control the whole CBus – just can’t see status of anything.   I’ll check the cables to the RS232, but I think they look good at least.

                                       

                                      Ben

                                       

                                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                      Sent: 30 November 2012 17:47
                                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                       

                                       

                                      The gateway is not able to see the C-Bus interface.    I can't remember if you have the onboard C-Bus SIM or are using a C-Bus RS232 serial interface  or maybe a C-Bus Ethernet interface.   Regardless the C-Bus interface is not being found.  The first thing it does with C-Bus is to read the ID of the interface.    It will have completed it's HomeVision synchronisation but will be unable to see or control anything on C-Bus.    

                                      I'll assume you've power cycled the gateway a couple of times and it does the same ?

                                      This is likely caused by a physical change somewhere , probably in the cabling to the C-Bus RS232 interface or possibly  the C-Bus interface IP address being wrong if you're using an Ethernet interface (which I dont think you are).  if you're using an onboard SIM just check that it is seated correctly in it's socket.       

                                      K

                                      On 30/11/2012 16:37, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                      Hi Kevin,

                                       

                                      Things have gone a bit wrong today.   I’ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they’re already doing).   So that’s involved mapping the X10 actions to virtual CBus groups (which I then switch from within a scene).   I have tried many things but not getting it to work.   I think I’ve followed your Gateway instructions properly (I’ve certainly read it about 10 times!) but not having much joy.   One issue seems to be that the gateway status page doesn’t show “Running ok”.     It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).  

                                       

                                      It shows: xAPRabbit : D: CB ID

                                       

                                      Then, underneath the matrix display of lights:

                                       

                                      Licence (xAP) CB HV MID:3268374032
                                      C-Bus SIM ID 0 SID:0 ver none
                                      Gateway ver beta 1 v22a 27th Jan 2009

                                       

                                      Also I now can’t seem to trigger scenes from HV like I could before.   The rest (old stuff) of the CBus light control is working fine. 

                                       

                                      Is there anything obvious I’m doing wrong you can tell from above message?

                                       

                                      Many thanks

                                       

                                      Ben

                                       

                                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                      Sent: 26 November 2012 22:08
                                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                       

                                       

                                      Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                                       

                                      Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been presse d! though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                                       

                                      Regards,

                                       

                                      Ben

                                       

                                      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                      Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                                      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gatew a! y

                                       

                                      < p class="MsoNormal"> 

                                      Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                                      Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                                      If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in ! the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                                      If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus command s! as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.   ;   There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                                      One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual gro u! p and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                                         K


                                       


                                       

                                       


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                                    • Ben Wilkinson
                                      Hi Kevin, I ve done some physical checking this morning. Wiring of the connector seems fine (checked with meter). I ve gone over the instructions again
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 1, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment

                                        Hi Kevin,

                                         

                                        I’ve done some physical checking this morning.   Wiring of the connector seems fine (checked with meter).   I’ve gone over the instructions again just to check everything physically is in the right place.   I’m plugging the HV into the LH socket (as you look at it) as per instructions.   The short CBus cable you made (for the CBus PCI) is plugged in the RH socket (grey).   I am a bit worried about the gateway instruction that says “DO NOT PLUG C-BUS into this socket if you don’t have a SIM , the gateway or C-Bus could be damaged”

                                         

                                        As I don’t have a SIM, I wanted to be sure the RH socket is correct.   The previous line seems to say that I should plug it into this one.  

                                         

                                        I doubt that I’ve changed the jumpers, but I thought I should check them also.   This is JP5 with 6 header possibilities.   From the RHS (with pin 1 on LHS), jumpers are at pins 2, 3 and 4, with the jumpers on the pairs of pins further away from the socket.   Is this correct? 

                                         

                                        Ben

                                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                        Sent: 30 November 2012 18:55
                                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                         

                                         

                                        HI Kevin,

                                         

                                        Thanks for the quick reply.   I am using the serial interface.   I have a feeling this might have been happening for some time as I can’t remember ever having seen the state of the CBus lights (although as I’ve never needed it until now, might have been there before).   All commands to the interface are working though (I did get the scene setting triggers working after I wrote first).   So I can control the whole CBus – just can’t see status of anything.   I’ll check the cables to the RS232, but I think they look good at least.

                                        &! nbsp;

                                        Ben

                                         

                                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                        Sent: 30 November 2012 17:47
                                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                         

                                         

                                        The gateway is not able to see the C-Bus interface.    I can't remember if you have the onboard C-Bus SIM or are using a C-Bus RS232 serial interf a! ce  or maybe a C-Bus Ethernet interface.   Regardless t he C-Bus interface is not being found.  The first thing it does with C-Bus is to read the ID of the interface.    It will have completed it's HomeVision synchronisation but will be unable to see or control anything on C-Bus.    

                                        I'll assume you've power cycled the gateway a couple of times and it does the same ?

                                        This is likely caused by a physical change somewhere , probably in the cabling to the C-Bus RS232 interface or possibly  the C-Bus interface IP address being wrong if you're using an Ethernet interface (which I dont think you are).  if you're using an onboard SIM just check that it is seated correctly in it's socket.       

                                        K

                                        On 30/11/2012 16:37, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                        Hi Kevin,

                                         

                                        Things have gone a bit wrong today.   I’ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they’re already doing).   So that’s involved mapping the X10 actions to virtual CBus groups (which I then switch from within a scene).   I have tried many things but not getting it to work.   I think I’ve followed your Gateway instructions properly (I’ve certainly read it about 10 times!) but not having much joy.   One issue seems to be that the gateway status page doesn’t show “Running ok”.     It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).  

                                         

                                        It shows: xAPRabbit : D: CB ID

                                         

                                        Then, underneath the matrix display of lights:

                                         

                                        Licence (xAP) CB HV MID:3268374032
                                        C-Bus SIM ID 0 SID:0 ver none
                                        Gateway ver beta 1 v22a 27th Jan 2009

                                         

                                        Also I now can’t seem to trigger scenes from HV like I could before.   The rest (old stuff) of the CBus light control is working fine. 

                                         

                                        Is there anything obvious I’m doing wrong you can tell ! from above message?

                                         

                                        Many thanks

                                         

                                        Ben

                                         

                                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                        Sent: 26 November 2012 22:08
                                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoo g! roups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                         

                                         

                                        Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                                         

                                        Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this ! circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been presse d! though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                                         

                                        Regards,

                                         

                                        Ben

                                         

                                        From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Beh alf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                        Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                                        To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gatew a! y

                                         

                                        < p class="MsoNormal"> 

                                        Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                                        Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                                        If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned f! aster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in ! the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                                        If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement ! anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, le vel calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus command s! as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.   ;   There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                                        One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group onl y! maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual gro u! p and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                                           K


                                         


                                         

                                         


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                                      • Kevin Hawkins
                                        I assume you still have the D: CB ID status and also there is still SIM ID = 0 shown ? Something has changed here because in this state there would be no
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 1, 2012
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                                          I assume you still have the D: CB ID status and also there is still  SIM ID = 0  shown ?    Something has changed here because in this state there would be no communication from C-Bus at all , the gateway would not update HV so nothing in HV that depended on a C-Bus state change would have worked (which it was doing a  few days ago - or are you saying it wasn't ?).   Have you previously ever received status updates or triggered a macro in HV from C-Bus.

                                          Have you physically moved the gateway at all in the last couple of days or re-configured C-Bus perhaps  - or loaded HV with some settings that mess up the custom lighting .. just before the issue started ?

                                          Also - is the gateway visible on Ethernet (the xAP packets) ?  Does the C-Bus RS232 interface work OK from C-Bus Toolkit ?

                                          Your connections to the gateway sound OK.   The warning within the instructions is to not plug C-Bus i.e. the pink cable into the right hand (often grey) socket unless you have the C-Bus SIM installed on the gateway and the appropriate jumper settings changed.  This is because the higher voltage used on C-Bus will destroy the RS232 serial interface chip on the gateway.  Actually creating very similar symptoms to what you're seeing .....

                                          Your firmware is slightly older than current versions although I think that the issue you're seeing is more fundamental.    I know later versions had improved C-Bus synchronisation and maybe this could cause a misleading stop on stage D: CB ID.  But I'm loathe to get you to update the firmware as that just creates another possible unknown.  The licences are validated against the SIM ID's and so you could disable your gateway features if you update as there is no SIM ID being recovered.  The SIM ID is checked before any C-Bus messages.

                                          You say  " It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).   " - If you have a group displaying a state here and you change that group on C-Bus (not from HV)  does it change state on the status web page  ?    Virtual groups - i.e.  groups that HV changes will get updated on this status page by HV and not from the C-BUS status messages.   I'm trying to establish if any real groups, i.e. the ones present in C-Bus output units are getting updated on this page.   Were they updated previously OK ?

                                              K






                                          01/12/2012 08:54, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                          Hi Kevin,

                                           

                                          I’ve done some physical checking this morning.   Wiring of the connector seems fine (checked with meter).   I’ve gone over the instructions again just to check everything physically is in the right place.   I’m plugging the HV into the LH socket (as you look at it) as per instructions.   The short CBus cable you made (for the CBus PCI) is plugged in the RH socket (grey).   I am a bit worried about the gateway instruction that says “DO NOT PLUG C-BUS into this socket if you don’t have a SIM , the gateway or C-Bus could be damaged”

                                           

                                          As I don’t have a SIM, I wanted to be sure the RH socket is correct.   The previous line seems to say that I should plug it into this one.  

                                           

                                          I doubt that I’ve changed the jumpers, but I thought I should check them also.   This is JP5 with 6 header possibilities.   From the RHS (with pin 1 on LHS), jumpers are at pins 2, 3 and 4, with the jumpers on the pairs of pins further away from the socket.   Is this correct? 

                                           

                                          Ben

                                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                          Sent: 30 November 2012 18:55
                                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                           

                                           

                                          HI Kevin,

                                           

                                          Thanks for the quick reply.   I am using the serial interface.   I have a feeling this might have been happening for some time as I can’t remember ever having seen the state of the CBus lights (although as I’ve never needed it until now, might have been there before).   All commands to the interface are working though (I did get the scene setting triggers working after I wrote first).   So I can control the whole CBus – just can’t see status of anything.   I’ll check the cables to the RS232, but I think they look good at least.

                                          &! nbsp;

                                          Ben

                                           

                                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                          Sent: 30 November 2012 17:47
                                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                           

                                           

                                          The gateway is not able to see the C-Bus interface.    I can't remember if you have the onboard C-Bus SIM or are using a C-Bus RS232 serial interf a! ce  or maybe a C-Bus Ethernet interface.   Regardless t he C-Bus interface is not being found.  The first thing it does with C-Bus is to read the ID of the interface.    It will have completed it's HomeVision synchronisation but will be unable to see or control anything on C-Bus.    

                                          I'll assume you've power cycled the gateway a couple of times and it does the same ?

                                          This is likely caused by a physical change somewhere , probably in the cabling to the C-Bus RS232 interface or possibly  the C-Bus interface IP address being wrong if you're using an Ethernet interface (which I dont think you are).  if you're using an onboard SIM just check that it is seated correctly in it's socket.       

                                          K

                                          On 30/11/2012 16:37, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                          Hi Kevin,

                                           

                                          Things have gone a bit wrong today.   I’ve been trying to use the buttons on switches to perform additional actions (to the scene setting they’re already doing).   So that’s involved mapping the X10 actions to virtual CBus groups (which I then switch from within a scene).   I have tried many things but not getting it to work.   I think I’ve followed your Gateway instructions properly (I’ve certainly read it about 10 times!) but not having much joy.   One issue seems to be that the gateway status page doesn’t show “Running ok”.     It also doesn’t show the status of any of the groups correctly (or at least very many of them).  

                                           

                                          It shows: xAPRabbit : D: CB ID

                                           

                                          Then, underneath the matrix display of lights:

                                           

                                          Licence (xAP) CB HV MID:3268374032
                                          C-Bus SIM ID 0 SID:0 ver none
                                          Gateway ver beta 1 v22a 27th Jan 2009

                                           

                                          Also I now can’t seem to trigger scenes from HV like I could before.   The rest (old stuff) of the CBus light control is working fine. 

                                           

                                          Is there anything obvious I’m doing wrong you can tell ! from above message?

                                           

                                          Many thanks

                                           

                                          Ben

                                           

                                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
                                          Sent: 26 November 2012 22:08
                                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoo g! roups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                           

                                           

                                          Thanks a lot for this Kevin.   As usual, tons of useful info!    I’m glad about the buffering.  I thought I’ve occasionally had lights not go on when a few were switched at a time.   But it’s unusual and I haven’t really taken much notice so may be mistaken.

                                           

                                          Useful reminder on the keys.   That had slipped my mind.   I think I’ll just use some sort of virtual group to indicate if a button has been pressed (assuming this is possible).   All I want to do in this ! circumstance is use it as an over-ride to automatic lighting so it should be fine.   Pity it doesn’t show which key has been presse d! though as then I might have been able to do some quite interesting things.

                                           

                                          Regards,

                                           

                                          Ben

                                           

                                          From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Beh alf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                          Sent: 26 November 2012 14:35
                                          To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gatew a! y

                                           

                                          < p class="MsoNormal"> 

                                          Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

                                          Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

                                          If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned f! aster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in ! the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

                                          If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement ! anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, le vel calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus command s! as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.   ;   There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

                                          One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group onl y! maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual gro u! p and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


                                             K


                                           


                                           

                                           


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                                        • Kevin Hawkins
                                          The below is correct - they could alternatively be on 3,4 and 5 - it is the same thing. (when using a C-Bus PCI RS232 interface) In addition there should be a
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Dec 2, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            The below is correct - they could alternatively be on 3,4 and 5 - it is the same thing.  (when using a C-Bus PCI RS232 interface)

                                            In addition there should be a jumper on JP23 between 1 and 2.

                                            There are 4 other jumpers for the HV serial port (porrt C) but those seem OK

                                            K


                                            On 01/12/2012 08:54, Ben Wilkinson wrote:
                                             

                                            I doubt that I’ve changed the jumpers, but I thought I should check them also.   This is JP5 with 6 header possibilities.   From the RHS (with pin 1 on LHS), jumpers are at pins 2, 3 and 4, with the jumpers on the pairs of pins further away from the socket.   Is this correct? 

                                             

                                            Ben



                                          • Ben Wilkinson
                                            Success!!! The JP23 was between pins 2 and 3. I ve changed it to 1 and 2,. First time around it didn t make any difference, but I took cbus power off the
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Dec 2, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment

                                              Success!!!

                                               

                                              The JP23 was between pins 2 and 3.   I’ve changed it to 1 and 2,.   First time around it didn’t make any difference, but I took cbus power off the PCI and then re-powered up.   Now everything is synching and the cbus page says ‘Running ok’.   There are a few things I’ll have to check out (eg some of the  lights are alternating between yellow and red every time a page is updated (lights are on all the time) and there are some weird lighting effects – but these are probably due to my programming which had tons of debug stuff in.  

                                               

                                              So problem is solved.  Many thanks for your help and patience!

                                               

                                              Ben

                                               

                                              From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
                                              Sent: 02 December 2012 09:48
                                              To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] Taken a few steps backwards!

                                               

                                               

                                              The below is correct - they could alternatively be on 3,4 and 5 - it is the same thing.  (when using a C-Bus PCI RS232 interface)

                                              In addition there should be a jumper on JP23 between 1 and 2.

                                              There are 4 other jumpers for the HV serial port (porrt C) but those seem OK

                                              K


                                              On 01/12/2012 08:54, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

                                               

                                              I doubt that I’ve changed the jumpers, but I thought I should check them also.   This is JP5 with 6 header possibilities.   From the RHS (with pin 1 on LHS), jumpers are at pins 2, 3 and 4, with the jumpers on the pairs of pins further away from the socket.   Is this correct? 

                                               

                                              Ben

                                               

                                               

                                               


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