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656Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

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  • Kevin Hawkins
    Nov 26, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Glad it's working Ben -  best to avoid group 0 wherever possible I think.  BTW you can control all lighting compatible applications on C-Bus this way, there are quite a few of them....

      Scenes can be achieved either way - the approaches differ slightly however.

      If you implement a scene directly on C-Bus then it is totally independent of HV and the gateway.  The gateway does not know if a scene has been set or not although it does track every individual group change.  It is actioned faster because the intermediary steps via the serial port are not required and also the exact messages sent out on C-Bus are compacted better.   Scenes on C-Bus typically use the trigger application (202).    There is also a scene indicator possibility where a button light indicates the scene is set and all members are still in the correct state.  If one member group changes state this will be unset accordingly.  You can also spread scenes across scene capbale switches etc.  So if you had two DLT's  for example some of the scene can be held in one and the remainder in the other.   This will be your way around implementing large scenes Ben.

      If you implement a scene on HV then it has to be triggered via a group change on the lighting (56) application.  You can't use the trigger application.  A scene within HV is essentially a HV macro that runs when something changes (your scene set key) and so you can implement anything that HV is capable of including conditional logic, delays, level calculations etc. which can be really powerful.    IIRC in the current firmware you should now be able to send any sequence of lighting commands and not get buffer overflows as the messages  are concatenated correctly or split across separate C-Bus commands as needed.   If that's not the case let me know.     There is also no automatic maintainance of a 'scene valid' indicator within HV so you are not aware if a group within  your scene changes state, thus breaking the scene.   You could implement this via a macro if you wanted to know though.

      One thing just to clarify.....   pressing a key on C-Bus doesn't actually send a message at all.. only if a key is linked with a group do you see the command to change that group state go out.  You don't know where (which key) originated the message from within HV although it maybe shows in the xAP message (origin=).    Also a group only maintains a state on C-Bus if it is present in an output unit e.g. a relay or dimmer.  If the group is not present in an output unit then it's called a virtual group.  Virtual groups are tracked by HV correctly so you can effectively treat them the same.  However an indicator light on C-Bus will not track the state of a virtual group and should you restart the gateway it will not be able to recover the current state of a virtual group from C-Bus. 


         K


       On 26/11/2012 10:46, Ben Wilkinson wrote:

      The room I’m doing this for has about 20 light circuits and if I try to do this individually via HV, there will be buffer overflow problems (at least I expect there will be).   So I think without this scene capability, I wouldn’t be able to do HV controlled lights at all.   I’m even struggling to fit the scenes within the Saturn switch (although I think there might be ways to overcome this using remote triggering).

       

      My next challenge will be recognising when a light switch has been pushed manually and automating a different scene when this is done.

       

      Ben

       

      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gale
      Sent: 26 November 2012 09:51
      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

       

       

      That’s cool J

       

      I’ve not tried CB scenes via the gateway – I’ve tended to create the scenes within HV itself i.e. set every light via a macro.

       

      Can you see any advantages to using a CB scene rather than doing it manually in HV?

       

      Paul.

       

      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
      Sent: 26 November 2012 08:28
      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

       





      Success!

       

      Works ok now doing what I described below.    The problem was that I’d used 2 Groups with address 0 and the Gateway didn’t like that.    Now I can trigger scenes from HV which is very useful!

       

      Ben

       

      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
      Sent: 25 November 2012 20:25
      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

       

       

      I’ve been doing some more work on this today.

       

      Have seen how to add an action trigger via Toolkit.   I set up the Trigger Group to be 0 on a Saturn switch I’m using .   Then set the secondary application to be Trigger Control (I don’t know if this is necessary).

      I set up a couple of scenes with Action selectors corresponding to the Scene number (ie 1, 2, 3  etc).  

       

      Then I set up a custom light wi t! h address 0 (to correspond to the Trigger group) and Extra Data 202 (for trigger control).  Then I set the level on this light at either levels 1, 2 or 3 depending which scene I wanted to select. 

       

      Anyway, it doesn’t work, so obviously I’m doing something wrong.   I do notice that on the HV ‘home’ menu logging, the command sent this way hardly varies from one sent to a standard light, although I can see the level changing on this log.  HV shows something like

       

      ,k2405<level>00

       

      when commands are sent from the Light Control menu.

      Normal lights show as

      ,k2005<level>00

       

      Any pointers as to what I’m doing wrong here?

       

      Thanks

       

      Ben

      From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Wilkinson
      Sent: 23 November 2012 08:42
      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

       

       

      Thanks for this Kevin.

       

      I’ve read up on triggering, though not sure I understand it entirely yet.  

       

      I see that Triggering uses a different application (202 as far as I can tell), so does this mean I set up a light with 202 as ‘extra data’ in HV?   If so, how do I get the gateway to send the correct trigger for each scene?   I guess it’s made up of the group address somehow, but also needs something to reference the scene number in the DLT or Saturn switch.   Is there s! omething which documents this?  

       

      Thanks again

       

      Ben

       

      ! From: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Hawkins
      Sent: 22 November 2012 15:39
      To: ukusa_gateway@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ukusa_gateway] DLT and Saturn Scenes in the Gateway

       

        < o>

      The gateway doesn't effectively care or know about scenes. It tracks
      and controls the 256 groups within the lighting (56) application. It
      can additionally control groups on other C-Bus applications that use the
      same lighting protocol but it doesn't tracks their states. So you
      ! can happily use C-Bus native scenes.

      Scenes are just a collecti on of group states that are triggered by
      'something' and that is normally a group on the trigger application
      being set to a specific level (action). The scenes are stored somewhere
      else on the C-Bus network typically in a scene capable light switch or a
      touchscreen / Wiser. Larger scenes can be spread across multiple devices.

      HV can issue these trigger commands via the getaway as can a button on
      a C-Bus switch. The gateway however doesn't report the changes on the
      trigger application but it does of course report the ! resulting lighting
      group changes. There is no reason you have to use the trigger
      application to invoke the scene although it is tidier as that is it's
      role. You could trigger scenes from lighting group changes should you
      wish..

      K

      On 22/11/2012 15:17, bensbarn2001 wrote:
      > Hi (Kevin),
      >
      > Long time no post, but I've finally got around to adding another room to our house and it's got a! bout 20 lighting circuits. So setting up pseudo 'scenes' in HV will likely run into buffer overflow situations. Therefore I wanted to know if the Gateway does currently support scenes programmed onto Saturn and DLT switches. I've looked at the documentation I have and also old messages in this forum, but can't see anything specific, but sorry if this is a repeat question.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Ben
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      & g! t;

       


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