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  • Paul Scott
    ... Why ? Is there some reasoned argument behind your rhetoric or are you just role-playing Mr Sprouts of Wrath the purist anarchist ? ... those only too
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 23, 1999
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      Mark writes:

      >Although I approve in principle with the aim 'saving the hobby',
      >Organisations,Approved Zine lists, One point of Introduction
      >and Central Gamestart services are all an abomination and just
      >as likely to kill it.

      Why ? Is there some reasoned argument behind your rhetoric or are you
      just role-playing "Mr Sprouts of Wrath the purist anarchist"?


      >Ideas like these ares usually suggested by control freaks, approved >by
      those only too willing to be seen doing something and foisted on >the
      masses, who are unlikely to stick their necks out and complain >after
      the event. I however,don't care if you label me a cantankerous >old git
      and will quite happily complain now.

      Calm down!
      Accept the fact that maybe some people would rather get together, pool
      ideas, then actually DO something rather than see the hobby
      die. What actually are you doing? What is your golden suggestion
      to halt this decline?

      Try breathing exercises.


      >See you all at MasterCon, where you can kick my head in.

      Is the queue usually very long? Should I bring some sandwiches?

      Paul Scott.
    • Wightman, Mark, WIGHTMM
      Paul Scott writes ... just role-playing Mr Sprouts of Wrath the purist anarchist ? OK. I will try and explain why I think they are
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 25, 1999
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        "Paul Scott" <dipfreaky@...> writes

        >>Although I approve in principle with the aim 'saving the hobby',
        >Organisations,Approved Zine lists, One point of Introduction
        >and Central Gamestart services are all an abomination and just
        >as likely to kill it.

        >Why ? Is there some reasoned argument behind your rhetoric or are you
        just role-playing "Mr Sprouts of Wrath the purist anarchist"?

        OK. I will try and explain why I think they are bad ideas, maybe later
        somebody will explain why they are good ideas.

        CGS - It's been done once before and failed then. From the little I have
        read about the previous failure it was because the players themselves
        preferred just to sign up for one (or a number of 'zines). I know when I
        choose to put my name on a waiting list that I have decided that the 'zine
        in question is the one where I wish to play. The last thing I want to find
        out is that some CGS has switched it to another 'zine. Add in the friction
        between CGS and none-CGS 'zines (and you know there would be some) and it's
        impractical. It's a good idea if you want to cause lots of bad feeling
        between ed's though.

        Approved Zine lists - Do I really have to explain why this is a bad idea? If
        I do there's no hope.

        One point of Introduction - Hmm . . . I could almost be swayed on this one,
        but then I remember we allready have one in Danny. I think Danny does a
        marvelous and thankless task running Springboard as a newbie 'zine, but
        reading between the lines of some of these posts some of you don't.
        [Apologies, Paul if you aren't one of them].

        >>Ideas like these ares usually suggested by control freaks, approved >by
        those only too willing to be seen doing something and foisted on >the
        masses, who are unlikely to stick their necks out and complain >after
        the event. I however,don't care if you label me a cantankerous >old git
        and will quite happily complain now.

        >Calm down!
        Accept the fact that maybe some people would rather get together, pool
        ideas, then actually DO something rather than see the hobby
        die. What actually are you doing? What is your golden suggestion
        to halt this decline?

        But I'm not really mad (yet ;-)). Does my not having a 'golden' idea
        preclude me from commenting on other ideas?

        >Try breathing exercises.

        You know, I just knew I'd missed something.

        >>See you all at MasterCon, where you can kick my head in.

        >Is the queue usually very long? Should I bring some sandwiches?

        No sandwiches, just beer!


        Mark Wightman
      • Stephen Agar
        In message , Wightman, Mark, WIGHTMM writes ... Well, this shows that you have no idea how
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 25, 1999
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          In message <199902251427.OAA17361@...>, Wightman,
          Mark, WIGHTMM <mark.wightman@...> writes
          >From: "Wightman, Mark, WIGHTMM" <mark.wightman@...>
          >
          >"Paul Scott" <dipfreaky@...> writes
          >
          >>>Although I approve in principle with the aim 'saving the hobby',
          >>Organisations,Approved Zine lists, One point of Introduction
          >>and Central Gamestart services are all an abomination and just
          >>as likely to kill it.
          >
          >>Why ? Is there some reasoned argument behind your rhetoric or are you
          >just role-playing "Mr Sprouts of Wrath the purist anarchist"?
          >
          >OK. I will try and explain why I think they are bad ideas, maybe later
          >somebody will explain why they are good ideas.
          >
          >CGS - It's been done once before and failed then. From the little I have
          >read about the previous failure it was because the players themselves
          >preferred just to sign up for one (or a number of 'zines). I know when I
          >choose to put my name on a waiting list that I have decided that the 'zine
          >in question is the one where I wish to play. The last thing I want to find
          >out is that some CGS has switched it to another 'zine. Add in the friction
          >between CGS and none-CGS 'zines (and you know there would be some) and it's
          >impractical. It's a good idea if you want to cause lots of bad feeling
          >between ed's though.
          >

          Well, this shows that you have no idea how the CGS operated from 1980
          onwards. let me explain. Everthing is as it is now. Lists in zines. If
          someone comes in through ads placed etc. they are given every
          encouragement to make their own way. If they don't care which zine they
          play in, they have an OPTION just to put their name down for a Dip
          gamestart - and the person running the "CGS" drops them into an existing
          list - opefully filling it. The advantage to the newcomer is a quick
          gamestart (which I think is very important), the advantage to the hobby
          is that lists fill quicker. There is no such thing as a CGS zine and a
          non-CGS zine, unless an editor doesn't want subscribers this way. If you
          took the trouble to try and understand what you were critisiing, you
          would look less foolish. Your criticisms are true of the period
          1972-1976, but that was 23 years ago...

          >Approved Zine lists - Do I really have to explain why this is a bad idea? If
          >I do there's no hope.

          Approved zine lists are an appalling idea.

          >
          >One point of Introduction - Hmm . . . I could almost be swayed on this one,
          >but then I remember we allready have one in Danny. I think Danny does a
          >marvelous and thankless task running Springboard as a newbie 'zine, but
          >reading between the lines of some of these posts some of you don't.
          >[Apologies, Paul if you aren't one of them].

          I think Danny has done a marvellous job within the parameters he has set
          himself. I think the effect of what Danny has done has been most
          unfortunate for the hobby - partially the concept of a novice zine
          (which fails to engage people into the zine culture), partly Danny's
          personality which can be patronising. If my first exposure to the hobby
          had been Springboard, I wouldn't have taken it any further. Danny's take
          up rates were noticeably worse than mine, last time I advertised - and I
          am not claiming I did a super job.


          --
          Stephen Agar, Brighton, UK
          www.diplomacy.co.uk
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