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RE: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?

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  • Howard Bishop
    Stephen, Unless we have to pay to keep it going, I would be an advocate for leaving it. Otherwise, it s as good as saying that the Amateur PBM hobby no longer
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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      Stephen,

      Unless we have to pay to keep it going, I would be an advocate for leaving
      it.

      Otherwise, it's as good as saying that the Amateur PBM hobby no longer
      exists. For relative newcomers like myself, it sends a message that says
      "don't bother, we're no longer open for business". In which case, I might as
      well plan to fold my 'zine now.

      I do understand your frustration at the lack of activity though.

      Howard


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul Dowden
      If there is a problem paying for the site, I think I could quite easily incorporate the site (free of course) into mine at
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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        If there is a problem paying for the site, I think I could quite easily incorporate the site (free of course) into mine at http://chingfordgames1.homestead.com/pbm2.html; you will notice I have a plug there already for the postal games site.

        Paul Dowden

        >>> hbishop@... 10/09/02 09:31:44 >>>
        Stephen,

        Unless we have to pay to keep it going, I would be an advocate for leaving
        it.

        Otherwise, it's as good as saying that the Amateur PBM hobby no longer
        exists. For relative newcomers like myself, it sends a message that says
        "don't bother, we're no longer open for business". In which case, I might as
        well plan to fold my 'zine now.

        I do understand your frustration at the lack of activity though.

        Howard


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      • Tom Tweedy
        In message , Howard Bishop writes ... Does that mean I d also have to take off any
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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          In message <430E6BBE8858D511B3D000508BF3951AF322C6@UK-STORE1>, Howard
          Bishop <hbishop@...> writes
          >Stephen,
          >
          >Unless we have to pay to keep it going, I would be an advocate for leaving
          >it.
          >
          >Otherwise, it's as good as saying that the Amateur PBM hobby no longer
          >exists. For relative newcomers like myself, it sends a message that says
          >"don't bother, we're no longer open for business". In which case, I might as
          >well plan to fold my 'zine now.
          >
          >I do understand your frustration at the lack of activity though.
          >
          >Howard

          Does that mean I'd also have to take off any reference on dip2000 to the
          postal hobby and send John Harrington?

          Also, we get UK Cons advertised here...

          Tom
          --
          Tom Tweedy
          Diplomacy 2000
          http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
        • Tom Tweedy
          In message , Ben & Linley Goodale writes ... Er... Mark Boyle debacle ... did I miss
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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            In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
            Goodale <ben_goodale@...> writes
            >
            >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some months ago, there
            >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we were onto
            >something.

            Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?

            Tom
            --
            Tom Tweedy
            Diplomacy 2000
            http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
          • Ben & Linley Goodale
            This is true. It doesn t hurt to leave it open. We could always play a game or something. ... From: Howard Bishop To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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              This is true. It doesn't hurt to leave it open. We could always play a game or something.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Howard Bishop
              To: 'ukpbm@yahoogroups.com'
              Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 6:31
              Subject: RE: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?


              Stephen,

              Unless we have to pay to keep it going, I would be an advocate for leaving
              it.

              Otherwise, it's as good as saying that the Amateur PBM hobby no longer
              exists. For relative newcomers like myself, it sends a message that says
              "don't bother, we're no longer open for business". In which case, I might as
              well plan to fold my 'zine now.

              I do understand your frustration at the lack of activity though.

              Howard


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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            • Ben & Linley Goodale
              far too long drawn out and melodramatic to revisit Tom.... ... From: Tom Tweedy To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 9:08 Subject: Re:
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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                far too long drawn out and melodramatic to revisit Tom....

                ...needless to say it fired up the message count for a bit.....think it wa something to do with disputes over zine polls or somesuch.....you know, usual thing...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Tom Tweedy
                To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 9:08
                Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?


                In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                Goodale <ben_goodale@...> writes
                >
                >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some months ago, there
                >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we were onto
                >something.

                Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?

                Tom
                --
                Tom Tweedy
                Diplomacy 2000
                http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/

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              • Stephen Agar
                In message , Paul Dowden writes ... No, this service is totally free. It s no hassle to leave it running
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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                  In message <sd7dc4d8.000@...>, Paul Dowden
                  <Paul.Dowden@...> writes
                  >If there is a problem paying for the site, I think I could quite easily
                  >incorporate the site (free of course) into mine at
                  >http://chingfordgames1.homestead.com/pbm2.html; you will notice I have
                  >a plug there already for the postal games site.
                  >
                  >Paul Dowden
                  >

                  No, this service is totally free. It's no hassle to leave it running as
                  such - I am just a little worried that people join, see no activity,
                  then leave.

                  How many active amateur zines are they these days? 12-15?
                  There's certainly very little sense of community.
                  How many Dip games going? 20?
                  How's con attendances holding up (rarely been to any since the kids
                  arrived - though I am going to MidCon this year)?

                  BTW - listening to a Nick Harper CD as I type this - great stuff -
                  anyone else like him?

                  Regards

                  --
                  Stephen Agar
                • Bruce Edwards
                  It all comes down to one question: (imho) what do we want to use this message board for? Most groups I sub to are organised around a particular game and one or
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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                    It all comes down to one question: (imho)

                    what do we want to use this message board for?

                    Most groups I sub to are organised around a particular game and one or two linked to a specific hobby. The Monster Island group, for example, contains messages relevant to the pbm games run by ABM (in the US) and KJC (UK). Then there are sub-groups for those playing in a particular area or group so that information can be exchanged. I currently sub to 10 zines... 1 is closing down (C&T), 1 is on 'holiday'. I have just written to another and 2 are web-based. Most have letter columns, some mention or review other zines.

                    Howard has a point. If it's not costing money, keep it open, but if you want to take yourself off the mailing list, then perhaps someone else would step in??

                    Anyway, you've generated a topic of conversation... and a few messages!!
                    ;-)

                    B.

                    psychopath website (for games) - http://www.psychozine.co.uk
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Ben & Linley Goodale
                    To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:29 PM
                    Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?


                    far too long drawn out and melodramatic to revisit Tom....

                    ...needless to say it fired up the message count for a bit.....think it wa something to do with disputes over zine polls or somesuch.....you know, usual thing...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Tom Tweedy
                    To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 9:08
                    Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?


                    In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                    Goodale <ben_goodale@...> writes
                    >
                    >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some months ago, there
                    >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we were onto
                    >something.

                    Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?

                    Tom
                    --
                    Tom Tweedy
                    Diplomacy 2000
                    http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/

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                  • Stephen Agar
                    In message , Bruce Edwards writes ... Next you will be suggesting that I periodically suggest
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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                      In message <002d01c25915$2ae485c0$34e8403e@tinypc>, Bruce Edwards
                      <kactusjak@...> writes
                      >It all comes down to one question: (imho)
                      >
                      >what do we want to use this message board for?
                      >
                      >Most groups I sub to are organised around a particular game and one or
                      >two linked to a specific hobby. The Monster Island group, for example,
                      >contains messages relevant to the pbm games run by ABM (in the US) and
                      >KJC (UK). Then there are sub-groups for those playing in a particular
                      >area or group so that information can be exchanged. I currently sub to
                      >10 zines... 1 is closing down (C&T), 1 is on 'holiday'. I have just
                      >written to another and 2 are web-based. Most have letter columns, some
                      >mention or review other zines.
                      >
                      >Howard has a point. If it's not costing money, keep it open, but if you
                      >want to take yourself off the mailing list, then perhaps someone else
                      >would step in??
                      >
                      >Anyway, you've generated a topic of conversation... and a few messages!!
                      >;-)
                      >

                      Next you will be suggesting that I periodically suggest closing the
                      group every 18 months or so purely to generate postings.

                      What a slander :-)

                      --
                      Stephen Agar
                    • Bruce Edwards
                      No, it s not slander... that s spoken. I think you mean libellous!! ;-) B. psychopath website (for games) - http://www.psychozine.co.uk ... From: Stephen Agar
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 10, 2002
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                        No, it's not slander... that's spoken.
                        I think you mean libellous!!
                        ;-)

                        B.
                        psychopath website (for games) - http://www.psychozine.co.uk
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Stephen Agar
                        To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:11 PM
                        Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Time to say goodbye?


                        In message <002d01c25915$2ae485c0$34e8403e@tinypc>, Bruce Edwards
                        <kactusjak@...> writes
                        >It all comes down to one question: (imho)
                        >
                        >what do we want to use this message board for?
                        >
                        >Most groups I sub to are organised around a particular game and one or
                        >two linked to a specific hobby. The Monster Island group, for example,
                        >contains messages relevant to the pbm games run by ABM (in the US) and
                        >KJC (UK). Then there are sub-groups for those playing in a particular
                        >area or group so that information can be exchanged. I currently sub to
                        >10 zines... 1 is closing down (C&T), 1 is on 'holiday'. I have just
                        >written to another and 2 are web-based. Most have letter columns, some
                        >mention or review other zines.
                        >
                        >Howard has a point. If it's not costing money, keep it open, but if you
                        >want to take yourself off the mailing list, then perhaps someone else
                        >would step in??
                        >
                        >Anyway, you've generated a topic of conversation... and a few messages!!
                        >;-)
                        >

                        Next you will be suggesting that I periodically suggest closing the
                        group every 18 months or so purely to generate postings.

                        What a slander :-)

                        --
                        Stephen Agar

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                      • Mark Boyle
                        Hello Tom, Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess Downes
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 11, 2002
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                          Hello Tom,

                          Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                          was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                          Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                          few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                          jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                          four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.

                          To be concise:

                          1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                          to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                          ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                          incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                          Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                          well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                          one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                          I'm so bloody great).

                          2. Bardy ranted thrice before cockcrow that he had not being trying
                          to goad me into sending him copy for his tatty rag in order to gain
                          attention for himself...then subsequently admitted it, then wondered
                          what all the fuss was about...seeming to think that was what normal
                          people do - forgetting of course that in the real world, as opposed
                          to the petty & spiteful "friendly hobby", its what actually earns you
                          a Doc Martin in the balls.

                          Uncle Tom, Turbonick, Mike Hasbeen & several other rose-tinters were
                          rather cross with me being so nasty to Bardy & Downes. In fairness, I
                          can see their point - if I'm going to get involved in a battle of
                          wits I really ought not to pick on unarmed opponents. But jolly
                          embarrassing for them one month later, when Pondlife Bardy was
                          practically coming in his pants because, wait for it, Mango had
                          reached No.2 in the Zine Poll (on such a massive...ROTFL!...turnout),
                          proving what I said that the little jerk was a publicity seeking
                          troll that had thrown his rattle out of the pram because Yours Truly
                          had refusing to perform for his tatty rag.

                          3. UKPBM's house muppet Ben Goodale managed to spout similar piffle
                          ("he was so intense"...oh dear), then promptly apologised - but this
                          was more to do because he wanted something from me than out of
                          regret, ie. some old Uni folk names and addresses. Seems the way of
                          the world these days methinks. I duly obliged with the current
                          addresses of one Eileen Dougall, Ollie Bath and Simon Biggun, only to
                          find him wingeing on this board that I hadn't replied, so I sent them
                          again...nothing more heard since. Ho hum. Par for the course in
                          hobbyland/life in general - once your usefulness runs out, its ta-ta.

                          If there was a "debacle" (nice choice of brown-nosing words to your
                          peer group Ben, you ain't changed much...), it was the unsavoury
                          spectacle of watching several people opening their mouths and letting
                          their bellies rumble, then getting all cross for being taken to task
                          over it. The only one that emerged from it with any dignity was
                          Stephen Agar, who immediately apologised and drew a line under it.
                          Not so Bardy, who simply proved what a slimy reptile he is; not so
                          Downes, who was finally shown up for the lying rat he was & scuttled
                          off to his hole; and certainly not Goodale, whom to be honest I
                          really thought a lot better of - suppose those War Chivalry &
                          Lordship classes never taught him much on the finer points of honour.

                          Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                          days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                          off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                          night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                          last laugh the longest.

                          Deagh Dhùrachd,

                          Mark Boyle
                          "Pick of the Bunch"
                          (whenever he gets his finger out...)


                          --- In ukpbm@y..., Tom Tweedy <tom@l...> wrote:
                          > In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                          > Goodale <ben_goodale@c...> writes
                          > >
                          > >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some
                          months ago, there
                          > >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we
                          were onto
                          > >something.
                          >
                          > Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?
                          >
                          > Tom
                          > --
                          > Tom Tweedy
                          > Diplomacy 2000
                          > http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                        • Stephen Agar
                          In message , Mark Boyle writes ... Whatever I thought of Joy as person, I think it was a tragedy for her
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 11, 2002
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                            In message <alofbj+lmq2@...>, Mark Boyle
                            <markboyle_potb@...> writes
                            >
                            >Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                            >days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                            >off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                            >night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                            >last laugh the longest.
                            >

                            Whatever I thought of Joy as person, I think it was a tragedy for her
                            child that she died when he was still so young (only 6 years old?).
                            Anyone know what happened to Lee?

                            And what's all this putting my name and the word "dignity" in the same
                            sentence - are you trying to ruin my reputation? :-)

                            Regards

                            --
                            Stephen Agar
                          • Howard Bishop
                            ... Stephen, I understand where you re coming from. When I first joined the hobby a couple of years ago, there were posts to this group almost on a daily
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              >No, this service is totally free. It's no hassle to leave it running as
                              >such - I am just a little worried that people join, see no activity,
                              >then leave.

                              >How many active amateur zines are they these days? 12-15?
                              >There's certainly very little sense of community.
                              >How many Dip games going? 20?
                              >How's con attendances holding up (rarely been to any since the kids
                              >arrived - though I am going to MidCon this year)?

                              >BTW - listening to a Nick Harper CD as I type this - great stuff -
                              >anyone else like him?


                              Stephen,

                              I understand where you're coming from. When I first joined the hobby a
                              couple of years ago, there were posts to this group almost on a daily basis.
                              There seemed to be a really vibrant initiative to take PBM to the people at
                              that time. I agree that unless there are regular posts, newcomers might be
                              put off. We should either revisit the PBM promotion initiative or use the
                              group for other things, like advertising new games or general hobby news. If
                              it wasn't for this group, my zine wouldn't have survived.

                              BTW. I saw Nick H when I saw Roy H last year. They both played individual
                              sets and then got together to play a joint set at the end.They're back in
                              Wycombe again next month. I already have my ticket! I don't have any of
                              Nick's material. Anything you'd recommend?

                              Cheers
                              Howard



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bruce Edwards
                              But what I don t understand is why he s so upset? If he s got better things to concern myself with these days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
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                                But what I don't understand is why he's so upset?

                                If he's got "better things to concern myself with these days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself off..."

                                then what's the problem??

                                B.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Ben & Linley Goodale
                                To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:50 PM
                                Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?


                                Clearly there's life in the old dog yet.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Mark Boyle
                                To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 8:16
                                Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?


                                Hello Tom,

                                Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                                was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                                Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                                few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                                jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                                four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.

                                To be concise:

                                1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                                to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                                ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                                incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                                Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                                well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                                one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                                I'm so bloody great).

                                2. Bardy ranted thrice before cockcrow that he had not being trying
                                to goad me into sending him copy for his tatty rag in order to gain
                                attention for himself...then subsequently admitted it, then wondered
                                what all the fuss was about...seeming to think that was what normal
                                people do - forgetting of course that in the real world, as opposed
                                to the petty & spiteful "friendly hobby", its what actually earns you
                                a Doc Martin in the balls.

                                Uncle Tom, Turbonick, Mike Hasbeen & several other rose-tinters were
                                rather cross with me being so nasty to Bardy & Downes. In fairness, I
                                can see their point - if I'm going to get involved in a battle of
                                wits I really ought not to pick on unarmed opponents. But jolly
                                embarrassing for them one month later, when Pondlife Bardy was
                                practically coming in his pants because, wait for it, Mango had
                                reached No.2 in the Zine Poll (on such a massive...ROTFL!...turnout),
                                proving what I said that the little jerk was a publicity seeking
                                troll that had thrown his rattle out of the pram because Yours Truly
                                had refusing to perform for his tatty rag.

                                3. UKPBM's house muppet Ben Goodale managed to spout similar piffle
                                ("he was so intense"...oh dear), then promptly apologised - but this
                                was more to do because he wanted something from me than out of
                                regret, ie. some old Uni folk names and addresses. Seems the way of
                                the world these days methinks. I duly obliged with the current
                                addresses of one Eileen Dougall, Ollie Bath and Simon Biggun, only to
                                find him wingeing on this board that I hadn't replied, so I sent them
                                again...nothing more heard since. Ho hum. Par for the course in
                                hobbyland/life in general - once your usefulness runs out, its ta-ta.

                                If there was a "debacle" (nice choice of brown-nosing words to your
                                peer group Ben, you ain't changed much...), it was the unsavoury
                                spectacle of watching several people opening their mouths and letting
                                their bellies rumble, then getting all cross for being taken to task
                                over it. The only one that emerged from it with any dignity was
                                Stephen Agar, who immediately apologised and drew a line under it.
                                Not so Bardy, who simply proved what a slimy reptile he is; not so
                                Downes, who was finally shown up for the lying rat he was & scuttled
                                off to his hole; and certainly not Goodale, whom to be honest I
                                really thought a lot better of - suppose those War Chivalry &
                                Lordship classes never taught him much on the finer points of honour.

                                Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                                days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                                off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                                night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                                last laugh the longest.

                                Deagh Dhùrachd,

                                Mark Boyle
                                "Pick of the Bunch"
                                (whenever he gets his finger out...)


                                --- In ukpbm@y..., Tom Tweedy <tom@l...> wrote:
                                > In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                > Goodale <ben_goodale@c...> writes
                                > >
                                > >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some
                                months ago, there
                                > >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we
                                were onto
                                > >something.
                                >
                                > Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?
                                >
                                > Tom
                                > --
                                > Tom Tweedy
                                > Diplomacy 2000
                                > http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/


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                              • Ben & Linley Goodale
                                Clearly there s life in the old dog yet. ... From: Mark Boyle To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 8:16 Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Clearly there's life in the old dog yet.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Mark Boyle
                                  To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 8:16
                                  Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?


                                  Hello Tom,

                                  Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                                  was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                                  Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                                  few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                                  jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                                  four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.

                                  To be concise:

                                  1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                                  to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                                  ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                                  incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                                  Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                                  well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                                  one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                                  I'm so bloody great).

                                  2. Bardy ranted thrice before cockcrow that he had not being trying
                                  to goad me into sending him copy for his tatty rag in order to gain
                                  attention for himself...then subsequently admitted it, then wondered
                                  what all the fuss was about...seeming to think that was what normal
                                  people do - forgetting of course that in the real world, as opposed
                                  to the petty & spiteful "friendly hobby", its what actually earns you
                                  a Doc Martin in the balls.

                                  Uncle Tom, Turbonick, Mike Hasbeen & several other rose-tinters were
                                  rather cross with me being so nasty to Bardy & Downes. In fairness, I
                                  can see their point - if I'm going to get involved in a battle of
                                  wits I really ought not to pick on unarmed opponents. But jolly
                                  embarrassing for them one month later, when Pondlife Bardy was
                                  practically coming in his pants because, wait for it, Mango had
                                  reached No.2 in the Zine Poll (on such a massive...ROTFL!...turnout),
                                  proving what I said that the little jerk was a publicity seeking
                                  troll that had thrown his rattle out of the pram because Yours Truly
                                  had refusing to perform for his tatty rag.

                                  3. UKPBM's house muppet Ben Goodale managed to spout similar piffle
                                  ("he was so intense"...oh dear), then promptly apologised - but this
                                  was more to do because he wanted something from me than out of
                                  regret, ie. some old Uni folk names and addresses. Seems the way of
                                  the world these days methinks. I duly obliged with the current
                                  addresses of one Eileen Dougall, Ollie Bath and Simon Biggun, only to
                                  find him wingeing on this board that I hadn't replied, so I sent them
                                  again...nothing more heard since. Ho hum. Par for the course in
                                  hobbyland/life in general - once your usefulness runs out, its ta-ta.

                                  If there was a "debacle" (nice choice of brown-nosing words to your
                                  peer group Ben, you ain't changed much...), it was the unsavoury
                                  spectacle of watching several people opening their mouths and letting
                                  their bellies rumble, then getting all cross for being taken to task
                                  over it. The only one that emerged from it with any dignity was
                                  Stephen Agar, who immediately apologised and drew a line under it.
                                  Not so Bardy, who simply proved what a slimy reptile he is; not so
                                  Downes, who was finally shown up for the lying rat he was & scuttled
                                  off to his hole; and certainly not Goodale, whom to be honest I
                                  really thought a lot better of - suppose those War Chivalry &
                                  Lordship classes never taught him much on the finer points of honour.

                                  Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                                  days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                                  off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                                  night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                                  last laugh the longest.

                                  Deagh Dhùrachd,

                                  Mark Boyle
                                  "Pick of the Bunch"
                                  (whenever he gets his finger out...)


                                  --- In ukpbm@y..., Tom Tweedy <tom@l...> wrote:
                                  > In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                  > Goodale <ben_goodale@c...> writes
                                  > >
                                  > >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some
                                  months ago, there
                                  > >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we
                                  were onto
                                  > >something.
                                  >
                                  > Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?
                                  >
                                  > Tom
                                  > --
                                  > Tom Tweedy
                                  > Diplomacy 2000
                                  > http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/


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                                • Tom Tweedy
                                  In message , Mark Boyle writes ... [Snip] But all this happened YEARS ago... why on earth would Ben
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In message <alofbj+lmq2@...>, Mark Boyle
                                    <markboyle_potb@...> writes
                                    >Hello Tom,
                                    >
                                    >Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                                    >was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                                    >Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                                    >few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                                    >jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                                    >four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.
                                    >
                                    >To be concise:
                                    >
                                    >1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                                    >to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                                    >ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                                    >incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                                    >Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                                    >well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                                    >one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                                    >I'm so bloody great).

                                    [Snip]

                                    But all this happened YEARS ago... why on earth would Ben Goodale want
                                    to mention it again now? Cooo some people have long memories.

                                    Tom
                                    --
                                    Tom Tweedy
                                    Diplomacy 2000
                                    http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                                  • Tom Tweedy
                                    In message , Stephen Agar writes ... Too late Mr A - we all know now that Mark is a fan. :-) Tom -- Tom
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      In message <su4$eKN0w8f9EwyR@...>, Stephen Agar
                                      <stephen@...> writes

                                      >And what's all this putting my name and the word "dignity" in the same
                                      >sentence - are you trying to ruin my reputation? :-)

                                      Too late Mr A - we all know now that Mark is a fan. :-)

                                      Tom
                                      --
                                      Tom Tweedy
                                      Diplomacy 2000
                                      http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                                    • Tom Tweedy
                                      In message , Ben & Linley Goodale writes ... Yes indeed... but you just HAD to poke him with
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        In message <006501c25a52$9c6e7d20$24624fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                        Goodale <ben_goodale@...> writes
                                        >Clearly there's life in the old dog yet.

                                        Yes indeed... but you just HAD to poke him with a stick didn't you. :-)

                                        Tom

                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Mark Boyle
                                        > To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 8:16
                                        > Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hello Tom,
                                        >
                                        > Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                                        > was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                                        > Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                                        > few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                                        > jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                                        > four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.
                                        >
                                        > To be concise:
                                        >
                                        > 1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                                        > to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                                        > ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                                        > incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                                        > Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                                        > well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                                        > one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                                        > I'm so bloody great).
                                        >
                                        > 2. Bardy ranted thrice before cockcrow that he had not being trying
                                        > to goad me into sending him copy for his tatty rag in order to gain
                                        > attention for himself...then subsequently admitted it, then wondered
                                        > what all the fuss was about...seeming to think that was what normal
                                        > people do - forgetting of course that in the real world, as opposed
                                        > to the petty & spiteful "friendly hobby", its what actually earns you
                                        > a Doc Martin in the balls.
                                        >
                                        > Uncle Tom, Turbonick, Mike Hasbeen & several other rose-tinters were
                                        > rather cross with me being so nasty to Bardy & Downes. In fairness, I
                                        > can see their point - if I'm going to get involved in a battle of
                                        > wits I really ought not to pick on unarmed opponents. But jolly
                                        > embarrassing for them one month later, when Pondlife Bardy was
                                        > practically coming in his pants because, wait for it, Mango had
                                        > reached No.2 in the Zine Poll (on such a massive...ROTFL!...turnout),
                                        > proving what I said that the little jerk was a publicity seeking
                                        > troll that had thrown his rattle out of the pram because Yours Truly
                                        > had refusing to perform for his tatty rag.
                                        >
                                        > 3. UKPBM's house muppet Ben Goodale managed to spout similar piffle
                                        > ("he was so intense"...oh dear), then promptly apologised - but this
                                        > was more to do because he wanted something from me than out of
                                        > regret, ie. some old Uni folk names and addresses. Seems the way of
                                        > the world these days methinks. I duly obliged with the current
                                        > addresses of one Eileen Dougall, Ollie Bath and Simon Biggun, only to
                                        > find him wingeing on this board that I hadn't replied, so I sent them
                                        > again...nothing more heard since. Ho hum. Par for the course in
                                        > hobbyland/life in general - once your usefulness runs out, its ta-ta.
                                        >
                                        > If there was a "debacle" (nice choice of brown-nosing words to your
                                        > peer group Ben, you ain't changed much...), it was the unsavoury
                                        > spectacle of watching several people opening their mouths and letting
                                        > their bellies rumble, then getting all cross for being taken to task
                                        > over it. The only one that emerged from it with any dignity was
                                        > Stephen Agar, who immediately apologised and drew a line under it.
                                        > Not so Bardy, who simply proved what a slimy reptile he is; not so
                                        > Downes, who was finally shown up for the lying rat he was & scuttled
                                        > off to his hole; and certainly not Goodale, whom to be honest I
                                        > really thought a lot better of - suppose those War Chivalry &
                                        > Lordship classes never taught him much on the finer points of honour.
                                        >
                                        > Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                                        > days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                                        > off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                                        > night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                                        > last laugh the longest.
                                        >
                                        > Deagh Dhùrachd,
                                        >
                                        > Mark Boyle
                                        > "Pick of the Bunch"
                                        > (whenever he gets his finger out...)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In ukpbm@y..., Tom Tweedy <tom@l...> wrote:
                                        > > In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                        > > Goodale <ben_goodale@c...> writes
                                        > > >
                                        > > >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some
                                        > months ago, there
                                        > > >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we
                                        > were onto
                                        > > >something.
                                        > >
                                        > > Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?
                                        > >
                                        > > Tom
                                        > > --
                                        > > Tom Tweedy
                                        > > Diplomacy 2000
                                        > > http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >

                                        --
                                        Tom Tweedy
                                        Diplomacy 2000
                                        http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                                      • Stephen Agar
                                        In message , Howard Bishop writes ... I was very impressed with Light at the end
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Sep 12, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          In message <430E6BBE8858D511B3D000508BF3951AF322D7@UK-STORE1>, Howard
                                          Bishop <hbishop@...> writes
                                          >>No, this service is totally free. It's no hassle to leave it running as
                                          >>such - I am just a little worried that people join, see no activity,
                                          >>then leave.
                                          >
                                          >>How many active amateur zines are they these days? 12-15?
                                          >>There's certainly very little sense of community.
                                          >>How many Dip games going? 20?
                                          >>How's con attendances holding up (rarely been to any since the kids
                                          >>arrived - though I am going to MidCon this year)?
                                          >
                                          >>BTW - listening to a Nick Harper CD as I type this - great stuff -
                                          >>anyone else like him?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Stephen,
                                          >
                                          >I understand where you're coming from. When I first joined the hobby a
                                          >couple of years ago, there were posts to this group almost on a daily basis.
                                          >There seemed to be a really vibrant initiative to take PBM to the people at
                                          >that time. I agree that unless there are regular posts, newcomers might be
                                          >put off. We should either revisit the PBM promotion initiative or use the
                                          >group for other things, like advertising new games or general hobby news. If
                                          >it wasn't for this group, my zine wouldn't have survived.
                                          >
                                          >BTW. I saw Nick H when I saw Roy H last year. They both played individual
                                          >sets and then got together to play a joint set at the end.They're back in
                                          >Wycombe again next month. I already have my ticket! I don't have any of
                                          >Nick's material. Anything you'd recommend?
                                          >
                                          >Cheers
                                          >Howard
                                          >
                                          >

                                          I was very impressed with "Light at the end of the Kennel" ( a
                                          mini-album) and "Seed" - which are the only 2 I have at present.
                                          However, I was sufficiently impressed to order the rest of his back
                                          catalogue from Amazon.

                                          He's a bit like an acoustic Manic Street Preachers.

                                          Ah, Roy Harper. Anyone remember the classic song "The Black Cloud of
                                          Islam"? It's a wonder he hasn't been fatwa'd.

                                          --
                                          Stephen Agar
                                        • Ben & Linley Goodale
                                          Well, it seems remarkably easy to stir him up. And you get such good value, you know a throwaway line and you get about two pages of A4. I m sure he must
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 13, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Well, it seems remarkably easy to stir him up. And you get such good value, you know a throwaway line and you get about two pages of A4.

                                            I'm sure he must either have a good spy or perhaps he is also subbed under a nom de plume so he can flounce dramatically in and out.
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Tom Tweedy
                                            To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 10:20
                                            Subject: Re: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?


                                            In message <006501c25a52$9c6e7d20$24624fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                            Goodale <ben_goodale@...> writes
                                            >Clearly there's life in the old dog yet.

                                            Yes indeed... but you just HAD to poke him with a stick didn't you. :-)

                                            Tom

                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Mark Boyle
                                            > To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 8:16
                                            > Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Time to say goodbye?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hello Tom,
                                            >
                                            > Well, what your resident Geddy Lee lookalike Ben Goodale is on about
                                            > was actually last November/December time (I think), involved Princess
                                            > Downes Queen of Hearts, Steve Agar & Alex Bardy deciding to concoct a
                                            > few fantasies about your truly on the board, then find themselves
                                            > jolly surprised when I turned up in person to take them to task after
                                            > four subscribers decided to forward me the contents.
                                            >
                                            > To be concise:
                                            >
                                            > 1. Downes took off when I revealed the hypocrite's own failed attempt
                                            > to fiddle the ZOTY Poll many moons back whilst continuing to moralise
                                            > ad nauseum over the 1987 Great Zine Poll Swindle (The Stoat
                                            > incidentally grumbled to me on the phone this year that Bowen and
                                            > Downes did a far better job in wrecking the poll than I ever did -
                                            > well, he did get the two biggest turnouts ever thanks to Yours Truly,
                                            > one doesn't like to boast but what did he ever do without me...God,
                                            > I'm so bloody great).
                                            >
                                            > 2. Bardy ranted thrice before cockcrow that he had not being trying
                                            > to goad me into sending him copy for his tatty rag in order to gain
                                            > attention for himself...then subsequently admitted it, then wondered
                                            > what all the fuss was about...seeming to think that was what normal
                                            > people do - forgetting of course that in the real world, as opposed
                                            > to the petty & spiteful "friendly hobby", its what actually earns you
                                            > a Doc Martin in the balls.
                                            >
                                            > Uncle Tom, Turbonick, Mike Hasbeen & several other rose-tinters were
                                            > rather cross with me being so nasty to Bardy & Downes. In fairness, I
                                            > can see their point - if I'm going to get involved in a battle of
                                            > wits I really ought not to pick on unarmed opponents. But jolly
                                            > embarrassing for them one month later, when Pondlife Bardy was
                                            > practically coming in his pants because, wait for it, Mango had
                                            > reached No.2 in the Zine Poll (on such a massive...ROTFL!...turnout),
                                            > proving what I said that the little jerk was a publicity seeking
                                            > troll that had thrown his rattle out of the pram because Yours Truly
                                            > had refusing to perform for his tatty rag.
                                            >
                                            > 3. UKPBM's house muppet Ben Goodale managed to spout similar piffle
                                            > ("he was so intense"...oh dear), then promptly apologised - but this
                                            > was more to do because he wanted something from me than out of
                                            > regret, ie. some old Uni folk names and addresses. Seems the way of
                                            > the world these days methinks. I duly obliged with the current
                                            > addresses of one Eileen Dougall, Ollie Bath and Simon Biggun, only to
                                            > find him wingeing on this board that I hadn't replied, so I sent them
                                            > again...nothing more heard since. Ho hum. Par for the course in
                                            > hobbyland/life in general - once your usefulness runs out, its ta-ta.
                                            >
                                            > If there was a "debacle" (nice choice of brown-nosing words to your
                                            > peer group Ben, you ain't changed much...), it was the unsavoury
                                            > spectacle of watching several people opening their mouths and letting
                                            > their bellies rumble, then getting all cross for being taken to task
                                            > over it. The only one that emerged from it with any dignity was
                                            > Stephen Agar, who immediately apologised and drew a line under it.
                                            > Not so Bardy, who simply proved what a slimy reptile he is; not so
                                            > Downes, who was finally shown up for the lying rat he was & scuttled
                                            > off to his hole; and certainly not Goodale, whom to be honest I
                                            > really thought a lot better of - suppose those War Chivalry &
                                            > Lordship classes never taught him much on the finer points of honour.
                                            >
                                            > Not to worry though, I've better things to concern myself with these
                                            > days than the petty bitchery of a failing hobby that's killed itself
                                            > off...and having discovered the fate of one Joy Hibbert only last
                                            > night, I believe that what goes around come around, & we who laugh
                                            > last laugh the longest.
                                            >
                                            > Deagh Dhùrachd,
                                            >
                                            > Mark Boyle
                                            > "Pick of the Bunch"
                                            > (whenever he gets his finger out...)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In ukpbm@y..., Tom Tweedy <tom@l...> wrote:
                                            > > In message <005d01c258a8$e23a0b40$fc644fcb@goodale>, Ben & Linley
                                            > > Goodale <ben_goodale@c...> writes
                                            > > >
                                            > > >Hmm. You have a point. Since the Mark Boyle debacle of some
                                            > months ago, there
                                            > > >has been resolute silence, though I thought for a minute there we
                                            > were onto
                                            > > >something.
                                            > >
                                            > > Er... 'Mark Boyle debacle'... did I miss something here?
                                            > >
                                            > > Tom
                                            > > --
                                            > > Tom Tweedy
                                            > > Diplomacy 2000
                                            > > http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                            > ADVERTISEMENT
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >

                                            --
                                            Tom Tweedy
                                            Diplomacy 2000
                                            http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk/dip2000/

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