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Zine Poll

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  • Nick Parish
    What are you talking about, Stephen? Adding up all the top votes gives 53 votes and even allowing for the odd joint-top, that still suggests that many, and
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 2, 2002
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      What are you talking about, Stephen? Adding up all the top votes gives 53
      votes and even allowing for the odd joint-top, that still suggests that
      many, and possibly most, of the voters didn't vote for FWTDR. Me, for one.

      Nick


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    • Richard Smith
      ... Ah, I get it now! Doh! Richard
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 5, 2002
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        Stephen said:

        >The person who runs the Poll (if they are an editor) has always had
        >the best chance of getting the most votes as his subbers were
        >contacting him anyway.

        Ah, I get it now! Doh!

        Richard
      • fwtdr
        Apologies - I should have thought of posting the results here as well as on my site. It was indeed Alan Parr who said I would win the poll if I ran it,
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
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          Apologies - I should have thought of posting the results here as well
          as on my site.

          It was indeed Alan Parr who said I would win the poll if I ran it,
          although I did wonder why, if this was so certain, it never happened
          for Ryk. I don't believe I got more people voting because I ran the
          poll. The argument that they send me the votes when they send me
          game orders seems to be equally valid for any other editor.

          I can't comment on the details of the votes, but to answer Stephen's
          pondering over whether Mango would have topped the poll under a
          preferential voting system, it would not have happened.

          I did put some thoughts together in the latest issue of FWTDR, and
          I've repeated them below.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          What of the poll's future? It was suggested that it would be better
          run by someone who did not edit a zine, but there wasn't time to sort
          out that degree of nicety if we were going to have the 2001 poll at
          all. Some would rather the poll didn't run, but they do seem to be
          in the minority. Fewer voters than before? Possibly, but if the
          hobby is truly shrinking that's bound to be the case. If there are
          fewer players but the same proportion vote, then the result should be
          just as valid.

          Ah, but I would say that, wouldn't I?

          There's nowt like forward planning, so the best time to think of the
          2002 Zine Poll is right now. I'm holding the baton for the moment,
          and would be prepared to keep it and run the next poll if that is
          what people want. On the other hand, if it should be run by a non-
          editor, then that person needs to be found and the details sorted out
          sooner rather than later.
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          John Harrington has offered his services for the 2002 poll, and I'd
          support him in that. There's little to actually hand over, other
          than the file used for the voting form, although he (or whoever) is
          also welcome to the fairly simple spreadsheet I used to record and
          calculate the votes.

          Keith
        • Howard Bishop
          Not worth a lot, but I d like to add my thanks to Keith for organising the poll and congratulations for his win. I don t think that the fact that Keith
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
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            Not worth a lot, but I'd like to add my thanks to Keith for organising the
            poll and congratulations for his win.

            I don't think that the fact that Keith organised the poll made a ha'p'rth of
            difference. All the zines I received had poll forms. I'm sure there weren't
            many people in the PBM community who weren't aware of the poll and how to
            get hold of a ballot paper. In the end I was awash with accursed blank
            ballot forms!!

            Two minor observations :
            1. The Tangerine Terror made its chart debut. Hurrah!
            2. The zine poll provides a guide to the size of the PBM community. If the
            number of people actively participating goes up (unlikely, but you never
            know), we should see a corresponding increase in the number of votes cast.

            Happy New Year to one and all.

            Cheers
            Howard
          • Stephen Agar
            In message , Howard Bishop writes ... That isn t true actually :-) ... Yes - but
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
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              In message <430E6BBE8858D511B3D000508BF3951A59CD48@UK-STORE1>, Howard
              Bishop <hbishop@...> writes
              >Not worth a lot, but I'd like to add my thanks to Keith for organising the
              >poll and congratulations for his win.
              >
              >I don't think that the fact that Keith organised the poll made a ha'p'rth of
              >difference. All the zines I received had poll forms.

              That isn't true actually :-)

              > I'm sure there weren't
              >many people in the PBM community who weren't aware of the poll and how to
              >get hold of a ballot paper. In the end I was awash with accursed blank
              >ballot forms!!
              >
              >Two minor observations :
              >1. The Tangerine Terror made its chart debut. Hurrah!
              >2. The zine poll provides a guide to the size of the PBM community. If the
              >number of people actively participating goes up (unlikely, but you never
              >know), we should see a corresponding increase in the number of votes cast.
              >

              Yes - but the prognosis must be it will go down further. I managed to
              start 2 games of Diplomacy in 12 months as a postal zine, and another 3
              in 4 weeks once I put an automatic sign-up form on the Internet. I think
              that speaks volumes.

              Regards

              --
              Stephen Agar, Brighton, UK
              http://www.diplomacy-archive.com
            • fiendishgames
              Just a reminder to those of you who have yet to vote in the Zine Poll or the Postal Gaming Web Site poll that you have just under 3 weeks to get your votes in.
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 12, 2003
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                Just a reminder to those of you who have yet to vote in the Zine Poll
                or the Postal Gaming Web Site poll that you have just under 3 weeks
                to get your votes in. I'm sure you all still have lots of Christmas
                shopping to do so do it now.

                Votes should be e-mailed to me at zinepoll@... .

                You may vote for up to 10 zines - just list them in order of
                preference.

                Similarly, you may vote for up to 10 web sites; when voting for
                these, please include the URL of each web site.

                If you are unsure whether an "e-zine" qualifies as a web site or a
                zine then it probably qualifies as a zine; examples include The Blue
                Nose Special, Serendipity, Diversions. If the zine can be downloaded
                from a web page then it is a zine, whereas if it can't, then it isn't!

                Editors are reminded that they may not vote for their own zines.

                Full details are available in the files section of the UKPBM
                Yahoogroups web site
                (http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EPTZP0HARbooQY3pc7lta8atvudLNsUuj1EQLGnG
                vwL4Wsmu6RjrjVfcgOVRr-OeuwQhn61XiyUm2CAwaA/ZP03.pdf)


                TTFN,



                John
              • fiendish@blueyonder.co.uk
                Hi Mike, No, you are not the first one to say so. Alan Parr has been saying it for as many years as I can remember. I think that, despite a valiant but futile
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 29, 2004
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                  Hi Mike,

                  No, you are not the first one to say so. Alan Parr has been saying it for as many years as I can remember.

                  I think that, despite a valiant but futile effort by a few of us on this mailing list a few years back (particularly Alex Bardy and John Colledge) to entice new people into the zine-based hobby, all we can look forward to is a gentle decline further into irrelevance.

                  Thanks to e-mail, the proliferation of games clubs and conventions, the gold mine of German games and online gaming, the role that zines used to fill - i.e. the opportunity to play games you would not normally have the opportunity to play with a community of like-minded people - is no longer particularly relevant. Some zines still survive out of mixture of force of habit, communual spirit and an interest in keeping in touch with the editor, and almost all of them represent remarkably good value in terms of bangs for the buck. However, in a world where you can whiz through a game of Puerto Rico online in about 40 minutes, who wants to play a game of "Where Is My Mind?" over a period of 15 months?

                  It's too late to change the voting system this year but I will have a serious look at it next year, after I have seen how many voters there are this time round. Maybe it would be best to put the thing out of its misery but I'd be interested to know the view of editors on this?

                  On a vaguely related subject, some of you will have noticed that there was no Mission From God this year. This is another hobby institution whose time might have passed. Given that I get very few outside contributors supplying zine reviews these days I was thinking of changing the format of the zine into something a bit more web-log ("blog") in form. This is not an original idea; Tringham and Dodds did something about 10 years ago along the lines of what I am considering, namely a sort of digest of what's happening in the zines.

                  Typical format would be:

                  Editorial rant
                  Maybe a few reviews and typical chat-zine stuff if I feel like it
                  Comments on zines I have received since the last issue
                  Contact details of all zines

                  We could, perhaps, change the name of the zine and call it Greatest Hits ....

                  The zine would probably be bi-monthly, and might have a more up to date online version.


                  Any thoughts on this idea?


                  John


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mike Dean [mailto:mike.dean@...]
                  Sent: Thu 28/10/2004 15:47
                  To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc:
                  Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Digest Number 482




                  >>>>> If anyone can think of a better system, let me know.

                  And the silence was deafening.... does anybody really care anymore?
                  Perhaps I'm just the first one to actually say so.

                  As far as voting mechanisms are concerned - why not just allow
                  people to vote for their favourite, and their second favourite - 3
                  points to the 1st and 1 point to the 2nd. Ratings any others after
                  that seems pointless.





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                • Chris Tringham
                  Well, glad to hear that we were ahead of our time with Hobby News . A blog might be a good way to provide news on whatever is happening, and promote the hobby
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 30, 2004
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                    Well, glad to hear that we were ahead of our time with "Hobby News".

                    A blog might be a good way to provide news on whatever is happening, and
                    promote the hobby into the bargain. There are plenty of people in the
                    hobby who could write entertaining blogs and reach a far wider audience
                    more cheaply and easily than by publishing a zine. Surely Pete
                    Doubleday must have one by now?

                    Chris
                  • Howard Bishop
                    I vote to leave the scoring system as it is. These are the zines I see. They are all in a very healthy state. Indeed, some of them are taking on new games and
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 30, 2004
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                      I vote to leave the scoring system as it is.

                      These are the zines I see. They are all in a very healthy state. Indeed,
                      some of them are taking on new games and have shortened turnaround time. If
                      only I could say the same about TTT!!

                      FWTDR
                      Obsidian
                      TCP
                      Hopscotch
                      Geneva
                      Minstrel
                      TBNS
                      Ode
                      Western Front
                      Damn The Consequences
                      Variable Pig
                      Jack Duckworth's Alternate Universe
                      Bloodstock

                      I used to get Pigbutton/Ratadan but that seems to have stopped now. Perhaps
                      my credit ran out.
                      I believe that once the current crop of games is complete, Serendipity will
                      also cease trading. A shame.

                      I think PBMBlog sounds like a top idea.

                      Anyway time to start thinking about the getting my Tangerines out (for the
                      lads).

                      H

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: fiendish@... [mailto:fiendish@...]
                      Sent: 29 October 2004 11:15
                      To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [ukpbm] Zine Poll


                      Hi Mike,

                      No, you are not the first one to say so. Alan Parr has been saying it for
                      as many years as I can remember.

                      I think that, despite a valiant but futile effort by a few of us on this
                      mailing list a few years back (particularly Alex Bardy and John Colledge) to
                      entice new people into the zine-based hobby, all we can look forward to is a
                      gentle decline further into irrelevance.

                      Thanks to e-mail, the proliferation of games clubs and conventions, the gold
                      mine of German games and online gaming, the role that zines used to fill -
                      i.e. the opportunity to play games you would not normally have the
                      opportunity to play with a community of like-minded people - is no longer
                      particularly relevant. Some zines still survive out of mixture of force of
                      habit, communual spirit and an interest in keeping in touch with the editor,
                      and almost all of them represent remarkably good value in terms of bangs for
                      the buck. However, in a world where you can whiz through a game of Puerto
                      Rico online in about 40 minutes, who wants to play a game of "Where Is My
                      Mind?" over a period of 15 months?

                      It's too late to change the voting system this year but I will have a
                      serious look at it next year, after I have seen how many voters there are
                      this time round. Maybe it would be best to put the thing out of its misery
                      but I'd be interested to know the view of editors on this?

                      On a vaguely related subject, some of you will have noticed that there was
                      no Mission From God this year. This is another hobby institution whose time
                      might have passed. Given that I get very few outside contributors supplying
                      zine reviews these days I was thinking of changing the format of the zine
                      into something a bit more web-log ("blog") in form. This is not an original
                      idea; Tringham and Dodds did something about 10 years ago along the lines of
                      what I am considering, namely a sort of digest of what's happening in the
                      zines.

                      Typical format would be:

                      Editorial rant
                      Maybe a few reviews and typical chat-zine stuff if I feel like it
                      Comments on zines I have received since the last issue
                      Contact details of all zines

                      We could, perhaps, change the name of the zine and call it Greatest Hits
                      ....

                      The zine would probably be bi-monthly, and might have a more up to date
                      online version.


                      Any thoughts on this idea?


                      John


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Mike Dean [mailto:mike.dean@...]
                      Sent: Thu 28/10/2004 15:47
                      To: ukpbm@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc:
                      Subject: [ukpbm] Re: Digest Number 482




                      >>>>> If anyone can think of a better system, let me know.

                      And the silence was deafening.... does anybody really care anymore?
                      Perhaps I'm just the first one to actually say so.

                      As far as voting mechanisms are concerned - why not just allow
                      people to vote for their favourite, and their second favourite - 3
                      points to the 1st and 1 point to the 2nd. Ratings any others after
                      that seems pointless.





                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                    • xyropedes@canada.com
                      (Cough) Diversions (Cough) Available as a download in pdf. Looking for Dip content. I like the idea of a blog. I ve just discovered a whole new area of
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 30, 2004
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                        (Cough) Diversions (Cough) Available as a download in
                        pdf. Looking for Dip content.

                        I like the idea of a blog. I've just discovered a
                        whole new area of interest with this form of
                        expression. Must make strenuous efforts to avoid
                        starting one myself. But definite potential there.

                        I'll get me coat.

                        Rip G
                      • John Harrington
                        Sorry for the delay in releasing the results. My PC has been acting up, freezing all the time and so I made the mistake of trying to fix it. It s now not
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 18, 2005
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                          Sorry for the delay in releasing the results. My PC has been acting
                          up, freezing all the time and so I made the mistake of trying to fix
                          it. It's now not booting up at all but it is recognising the disk
                          drives so the data is all there (it's backed up, anyway). As soon
                          as I get the PC fixed I'll get the damn thing published, but in the
                          meantime, if you didn't vote, you've got a chance to get a in a late
                          vote!


                          John (e-mailing from work)
                        • John Harrington
                          Dear all, Sorry for the late announcement of this. I was holding off making a final decision until MidCon. I will not be running the Zine Poll this year.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 18, 2005
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                            Dear all,

                            Sorry for the late announcement of this. I was holding off making a
                            final decision until MidCon.

                            I will not be running the Zine Poll this year. Someone else may take
                            over and if they do I can forward them Keith Thomasson's Excel
                            spreadsheet, which proved invaluable in totting up the numbers in
                            previous years; these days, probably all you'd need is fingers, thumbs
                            and maybe the toes of one foot.

                            If there are any editors reading this, please publicise my decision.
                            Feel free to castigate me for the late announcement.


                            Regards,


                            John
                          • Bruce Edwards
                            Hi I m sure there are others out there who could say more on this but anyway... I haven t been around the zine scene that long but would like to thank John for
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 27, 2005
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                              Hi

                              I'm sure there are others out there who could say more on this but anyway...

                              I haven't been around the zine scene that long but would like to thank John for arranging, organising and counting the Zine Poll over the last few years.
                              Imho, I think the time is right to stop the poll, as it seems there are fewer zines around - and so it is likely the ones with the highest readership will be the ones scoring best.

                              I guess the same is true for MfG too, so thanks again to John for keeping up (as best he could) with all the zines starting and folding while trying to write something about the zines to try and attract new subbers!

                              Bruce

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Peter Sullivan
                              ... To me, the main reason to stop the Zine Poll is simply the lack of voters, rather than lack of zeens. Anyone who does want to put a case forward for
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 27, 2005
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                                Bruce Edwards wrote:

                                > I haven't been around the zine scene that long but would like to thank
                                > John for arranging, organising and counting the Zine Poll over the
                                > last few years.
                                > Imho, I think the time is right to stop the poll, as it seems there
                                > are fewer zines around - and so it is likely the ones with the highest
                                > readership will be the ones scoring best.

                                To me, the main reason to stop the Zine Poll is simply the lack of
                                voters, rather than lack of zeens. Anyone who does want to put a case
                                forward for keeping it going needs, IMHO, to suggest how to address that
                                first.

                                > I guess the same is true for MfG too, so thanks again to John for
                                > keeping up (as best he could) with all the zines starting and folding
                                > while trying to write something about the zines to try and attract new
                                > subbers!

                                I'm not so sure the case for stopping Mission from God is as strong.
                                Firstly, it doesn't have such a need for "critical mass" as the poll -
                                really just a keen editor plus a few hangers-on to contribute outside
                                reviews is all it takes to keep it going. And it's a useful resource,
                                even if not for as many people as it used to be. Regardless of new
                                blood, I can see it being of interest for returnees - of which there may
                                be increasing numbers as the old guard of the 1970s come up to
                                retirement (early or otherwise) and idly enter "postal diplomacy" into a
                                web search engine one day...

                                --
                                Peter Sullivan <peter@...>
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