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Re: [uk_jugglers] Jugglers vs Unicyclists?

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  • Annette Gliwa
    Glyn, I agree, with children I never do staff. specialy not in a workshop scenario. However somehow they sounded a little older then that? no? But of course
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 24, 2007
      Glyn,
      I agree, with children I never do staff. specialy not in a workshop scenario.
      However somehow they sounded a little older then that? no?
      But of course you have to be there and know the people to be able to judge if this is
      a feasable or good idea.
      xAnnette


      Glyn Hanton <glyn@...> wrote:
      Annette Gliwa wrote:
      > If you are determined to make them juggle (which I do actually think is the final goal against hooliganism) how about organising a fire night. Staff f.e in the basic move is not so difficult to learn and they might like it after watching all these Japanese fighting movies (stereotype hello
      Whilst I agree with almost everything Annette's just said, I'd like to
      add that I'm personally not too keen to teach staff straight away to
      some generally younger folks for exactly the reason Annette mentions as
      to why they want to learn. Whether being able to whirl a stick around
      makes you any better at hitting a person with it is debatable, but I'm
      sure it makes people _think they're better at hitting people with it.
      Anyone who's ever run a workshop involving kids will know that at some
      point, you will have to tell some lads that the devilsticks are not
      swords, and they shouldn't be trying to beat each other with them. As
      much fun as it is to watch ....

      I think when people makes decisions to teach things like this, there
      something to be said for how well you know the person, how much time
      you're going to spend with them etc etc I personally think there's
      something to be said for refusing to teach staff in some situations
      _until a person has learned to juggle.

      --
      Glyn
      Loaded Dice Design and Media
      www.loadeddice.co.uk






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    • Richard Loxley
      ... As a member of both the juggling and unicycling communities, I have noticed that the overlap is mostly only one-way. Jugglers seem to be interested in all
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 24, 2007
        Kevin Rowe wrote:
        > What are the characteristics of Jugglers versus Unicyclists?
        >
        > Two different sets of people? How much overlap?

        As a member of both the juggling and unicycling communities, I have
        noticed that the overlap is mostly only one-way.

        Jugglers seem to be interested in all unusual manipulation skills, and
        as such often learn to unicycle. They tend to do unicycle tricks and
        maybe hockey.

        Unicyclists seem to start because it is a cool extreme sport. They tend
        to be more into the extreme side of it, such as trials and muni. Some of
        them drift into hockey or tricks, but the tricks are those which are cool.
        They have very little interest in juggling and the like.

        If you are looking to develop these teenagers in some way, I think
        Annette's and Roslyn's advice is sound.

        If they don't want to juggle, fair play! But if you can help them find
        'their thing' then great :-)

        - Richard
      • Rob Thorburn
        ... workshop scenario. ... I m personally not too keen to teach staff straight away to ... as to why they want to learn. Whether being able to whirl a stick
        Message 3 of 19 , Oct 25, 2007
          Annette Gliwa wrote:
          > I agree, with children I never do staff. specialy not in a
          workshop scenario.

          > Glyn Hanton <glyn@...> wrote:
          I'm personally not too keen to teach staff straight away to
          > some generally younger folks for exactly the reason Annette mentions
          as to why they want to learn. Whether being able to whirl a stick
          around makes you any better at hitting a person with it is debatable,
          but I'm sure it makes people _think they're better at hitting people
          with it.
          > Anyone who's ever run a workshop involving kids will know that at
          some point, you will have to tell some lads that the devilsticks are
          not swords, and they shouldn't be trying to beat each other with them.
          As much fun as it is to watch ....
          >
          > I think when people makes decisions to teach things like this, there
          > something to be said for how well you know the person, how much time
          > you're going to spend with them etc etc I personally think there's
          > something to be said for refusing to teach staff in some situations
          > _until a person has learned to juggle.
          >
          > --



          I'm with pete on this one (though about staff) - i've *never* had any
          problems in 8 years of teaching children staff spinning and contact,
          as opposed to the hundreds of times i've had to tell them not to throw
          juggling balls at each other/the wall/the other end of the hall.... if
          anything it makes them respond better to be treated like they can
          handle something that might be a little dangerous.)petes words are
          much better - 'cool and empowering')

          Rob
        • Kester the Jester
          My son is currently sporting a black eye after being hit by a pole/staff that they use in gymnastics. I d rather be hit with a beanbag and I d think he d
          Message 4 of 19 , Oct 25, 2007
            My son is currently sporting a black eye after being hit by a pole/staff that they use in gymnastics. I'd rather be hit with a beanbag and I'd think he'd concur.

            Nigel


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Rob Thorburn
            To: uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:35 AM
            Subject: [uk_jugglers] Re: Jugglers vs Unicyclists?


            Annette Gliwa wrote:
            > I agree, with children I never do staff. specialy not in a
            workshop scenario.

            > Glyn Hanton <glyn@...> wrote:
            I'm personally not too keen to teach staff straight away to
            > some generally younger folks for exactly the reason Annette mentions
            as to why they want to learn. Whether being able to whirl a stick
            around makes you any better at hitting a person with it is debatable,
            but I'm sure it makes people _think they're better at hitting people
            with it.
            > Anyone who's ever run a workshop involving kids will know that at
            some point, you will have to tell some lads that the devilsticks are
            not swords, and they shouldn't be trying to beat each other with them.
            As much fun as it is to watch ....
            >
            > I think when people makes decisions to teach things like this, there
            > something to be said for how well you know the person, how much time
            > you're going to spend with them etc etc I personally think there's
            > something to be said for refusing to teach staff in some situations
            > _until a person has learned to juggle.
            >
            > --

            I'm with pete on this one (though about staff) - i've *never* had any
            problems in 8 years of teaching children staff spinning and contact,
            as opposed to the hundreds of times i've had to tell them not to throw
            juggling balls at each other/the wall/the other end of the hall.... if
            anything it makes them respond better to be treated like they can
            handle something that might be a little dangerous.)petes words are
            much better - 'cool and empowering')

            Rob






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          • Glyn Hanton
            Again I agree with your points, but I think you re missing mine (apologies if I m mistaken). Maybe I should emphasise that what I was suggesting was NOT that
            Message 5 of 19 , Oct 25, 2007
              Again I agree with your points, but I think you're missing mine
              (apologies if I'm mistaken).

              Maybe I should emphasise that what I was suggesting was NOT that young
              people shouldn't be taught staff, it was that it's possibly wise to be
              at least vaguely aware of who you're teaching and teach accordingly.
              This conversation started in the context of teaching the 'local
              hooligans' unicycling. Of course Nigel may well have been using the
              term 'hooligan' in the affectionate sense. To take it to a logical
              extreme, I presume you wouldn't teach a known axe murderer how to more
              effectively use a katana and then send them on their way feeling cool
              and empowered. There are levels in all things.

              The fact that _you've not _experienced problems doesn't make it wise to
              teach hooligans how to use sub machine guns, and it also doesn't mean
              there haven't been problems outside of your zone of control which you
              wouldn't know about. Apologies for the use of rhetoric, but I hope it
              emphasises my point.

              Of course, these are staffs, not sub machine guns and hence we make our
              judgements accordingly. I'm sure you do this. The reason I wrote my
              original response was because I thought it could be read from Annette's
              comment (whether she meant it or not) that teaching staff was a good way
              to bring people into juggling. I merely wanted to add to that, that I
              didn't think that would _always be a good idea, and I get the impression
              Annette agrees with me from her subsequent post.

              To put it into a juggling context, so it's not just about staff. A while
              back I was doing a walkabout around a new housing estate on 'open day',
              and ended up entertaining a bunch of teenagers. Whilst watching me doing
              a 3 ball cross and follow (weave for the poi mongers) and similar stuff,
              one young thing, about the age of ten exclaimed "wow! imagine that with
              knives!". Now there's a lad I'd be hesitant to teach a cross and follow
              pattern too, until I knew him a little better.

              I think it's important to stress again, that I'm not, and I don't think
              anyone else is suggesting you shouldn't teach staff, or whip cracking or
              for that matter, how to use sub machine guns, 'in a suitable
              environment'. These things are all cool and empowering, and I'm glad we
              agree on that.


              Rob Thorburn wrote:
              > I'm with pete on this one (though about staff) - i've *never* had any
              > problems in 8 years of teaching children staff spinning and contact,
              > as opposed to the hundreds of times i've had to tell them not to throw
              > juggling balls at each other/the wall/the other end of the hall.... if
              > anything it makes them respond better to be treated like they can
              > handle something that might be a little dangerous.)petes words are
              > much better - 'cool and empowering')
              >
              > Rob
              >

              --
              Glyn
              Loaded Dice Design and Media
              www.loadeddice.co.uk
            • Kester the Jester
              Glyn, You are confusing me with Kevin. I don t have local hooligans knocking at my door, I just have 3 hooligans of my own. Nigel ... From: Glyn Hanton To:
              Message 6 of 19 , Oct 25, 2007
                Glyn,

                You are confusing me with Kevin. I don't have local hooligans knocking at my door, I just have 3 hooligans of my own.

                Nigel
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Glyn Hanton
                To: uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 1:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [uk_jugglers] Re: Jugglers vs Unicyclists?


                Again I agree with your points, but I think you're missing mine
                (apologies if I'm mistaken).

                Maybe I should emphasise that what I was suggesting was NOT that young
                people shouldn't be taught staff, it was that it's possibly wise to be
                at least vaguely aware of who you're teaching and teach accordingly.
                This conversation started in the context of teaching the 'local
                hooligans' unicycling. Of course Nigel may well have been using the
                term 'hooligan' in the affectionate sense. To take it to a logical
                extreme, I presume you wouldn't teach a known axe murderer how to more
                effectively use a katana and then send them on their way feeling cool
                and empowered. There are levels in all things.

                The fact that _you've not _experienced problems doesn't make it wise to
                teach hooligans how to use sub machine guns, and it also doesn't mean
                there haven't been problems outside of your zone of control which you
                wouldn't know about. Apologies for the use of rhetoric, but I hope it
                emphasises my point.

                Of course, these are staffs, not sub machine guns and hence we make our
                judgements accordingly. I'm sure you do this. The reason I wrote my
                original response was because I thought it could be read from Annette's
                comment (whether she meant it or not) that teaching staff was a good way
                to bring people into juggling. I merely wanted to add to that, that I
                didn't think that would _always be a good idea, and I get the impression
                Annette agrees with me from her subsequent post.

                To put it into a juggling context, so it's not just about staff. A while
                back I was doing a walkabout around a new housing estate on 'open day',
                and ended up entertaining a bunch of teenagers. Whilst watching me doing
                a 3 ball cross and follow (weave for the poi mongers) and similar stuff,
                one young thing, about the age of ten exclaimed "wow! imagine that with
                knives!". Now there's a lad I'd be hesitant to teach a cross and follow
                pattern too, until I knew him a little better.

                I think it's important to stress again, that I'm not, and I don't think
                anyone else is suggesting you shouldn't teach staff, or whip cracking or
                for that matter, how to use sub machine guns, 'in a suitable
                environment'. These things are all cool and empowering, and I'm glad we
                agree on that.

                Rob Thorburn wrote:
                > I'm with pete on this one (though about staff) - i've *never* had any
                > problems in 8 years of teaching children staff spinning and contact,
                > as opposed to the hundreds of times i've had to tell them not to throw
                > juggling balls at each other/the wall/the other end of the hall.... if
                > anything it makes them respond better to be treated like they can
                > handle something that might be a little dangerous.)petes words are
                > much better - 'cool and empowering')
                >
                > Rob
                >

                --
                Glyn
                Loaded Dice Design and Media
                www.loadeddice.co.uk






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                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Glyn Hanton
                ... oops - my sincerest apologies to Kevin. -- Glyn Loaded Dice Design and Media www.loadeddice.co.uk
                Message 7 of 19 , Oct 25, 2007
                  Kester the Jester wrote:
                  > Glyn,
                  >
                  > You are confusing me with Kevin. I don't have local hooligans knocking at my door, I just have 3 hooligans of my own.
                  >
                  oops - my sincerest apologies to Kevin.

                  --
                  Glyn
                  Loaded Dice Design and Media
                  www.loadeddice.co.uk
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