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Re: [uk_jugglers] Mugs..

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  • Mark Tillotson
    ... Mine s fine - be careful not to leave them in direct sunlight for ages - leuco-dye technology is not up to that. And you read the label about not being
    Message 1 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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      Nigel wrote:
      > So has everyone else's mug gone a funny brown colour that the BJC logo
      > clearly shows through? Or is it a Manchester phenomenon?
      >
      > N.

      Mine's fine - be careful not to leave them in direct sunlight for
      ages - leuco-dye technology is not up to that. And you read the label
      about not being dishwasher-proof didn't you ? - The dye layer isn't
      nearly as chemically robust as the pottery itself.

      I think they are rainproof though(!)

      __Mark T
    • Nigel
      ... Mine went the funny colour sometime on the Sunday just sat in my tent.. Hairy s has gone brown too. I have a perfectly good dishwasher at the end of my
      Message 2 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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        On 11 May 2006, at 13:58, Mark Tillotson wrote:

        > Nigel wrote:
        >> So has everyone else's mug gone a funny brown colour that the BJC logo
        >> clearly shows through? Or is it a Manchester phenomenon?
        >>
        >> N.
        >
        > Mine's fine - be careful not to leave them in direct sunlight for
        > ages - leuco-dye technology is not up to that. And you read the label
        > about not being dishwasher-proof didn't you ? - The dye layer isn't
        > nearly as chemically robust as the pottery itself.
        >
        > I think they are rainproof though(!)

        Mine went the funny colour sometime on the Sunday just sat in my tent..
        Hairy's has gone brown too.

        I have a perfectly good dishwasher at the end of my arm. A matching one
        on the other side too - don't need no water-and-power hungry machine to
        do it for me.

        N.

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      • Richard Loxley
        ... Actually dishwashing machines use less water and less power than hand washing:
        Message 3 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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          Nigel wrote:
          >
          > I have a perfectly good dishwasher at the end of my arm. A matching one
          > on the other side too - don't need no water-and-power hungry machine to
          > do it for me.

          Actually dishwashing machines use less water and less power
          than hand washing:

          http://www.landtechnik.uni-bonn.de/ifl_research/ifl_research_project.php?sec=HT&no=1

          But carry on using your arm-mounted dishwashers. I hear the detergent
          is good for the complexion ;-)

          - Richard
        • Mark Tillotson
          ... [ Rolls up sleeves for a good rant! ] Hmm, that article s a load of weasely tosh - anyone who uses 103 litres of water to wash 12 place settings is
          Message 4 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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            Richard Loxley wrote:
            > Nigel wrote:
            >
            >>I have a perfectly good dishwasher at the end of my arm. A matching one
            >>on the other side too - don't need no water-and-power hungry machine to
            >>do it for me.
            >
            >
            > Actually dishwashing machines use less water and less power
            > than hand washing:
            >
            > http://www.landtechnik.uni-bonn.de/ifl_research/ifl_research_project.php?sec=HT&no=1
            >
            > But carry on using your arm-mounted dishwashers. I hear the detergent
            > is good for the complexion ;-)
            >
            > - Richard
            >
            >

            [ Rolls up sleeves for a good rant! ]

            Hmm, that article's a load of weasely tosh - anyone who uses 103 litres of water to
            wash 12 place settings is deliberately trying to waste water and energy - my sink
            only takes 20 litres full I reckon, and most of that would be occupied by crockery.

            The energy required to make a dishwasher and to dispose of it at the end
            of its life, and to transport it and its parts is totally ignored, as is the
            environmental effects of making and using the chemicals in dishwasher powder
            and the salt and rinse liquids, which contains a whole cocktail of things other
            than simple detergents. Then there's the hidden cost of transporting the consumables and
            the packaging (over and above that for liquid detergent used in hand washing).

            Also dishwashers use more energy per-unit-water as they reheat the water to 60 degrees C. It
            is not necessary to use hot or even warm water for dish washing most of the time as
            liquid detergents function well at lower temperatures (exception being thick grease
            which I try not to eat in the first place!)

            Anyway the article looks good on the surface, but seems to be cherry-picked
            propaganda in reality.

            Dishwashers save human time and effort, not energy and resources...

            __Mark
          • Glyn Hanton
            ... maybe they re assuming you normally wash 2 place settings at a time and then throw out the water. They evidently haven t considered the folks who use every
            Message 5 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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              Mark Tillotson wrote:

              >[ Rolls up sleeves for a good rant! ]
              >
              >Hmm, that article's a load of weasely tosh - anyone who uses 103 litres of water to
              >wash 12 place settings is deliberately trying to waste water and energy
              >
              maybe they're assuming you normally wash 2 place settings at a time and
              then throw out the water. They evidently haven't considered the folks
              who use every piece of crockery they possess before even contemplating
              washing up, then deciding it would better be used for juggling practice,
              thus saving the effort and the water.

              if you eat sticky food it helps with the catching, although not so much
              the throwing ....

              --
              Glyn
              Loaded Dice Design and Media
              http://www.loadeddice.co.uk



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            • Jay Linn
              ... Oh come on, people. This is a bunch of right-on hippy jugglers
              Message 6 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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                Mark Tillotson wrote:
                > [ Rolls up sleeves for a good rant! ]
                >
                > Hmm, that article's a load of weasely tosh - anyone who uses 103 litres of water to
                > wash 12 place settings is deliberately trying to waste water and energy - my sink
                > only takes 20 litres full I reckon, and most of that would be occupied by crockery.
                >
                <dons flame throwing outfit, sword of simple truth, and trusty shield of
                righteousness>

                Oh come on, people. This is a bunch of right-on hippy jugglers
                debating a perfectly valid and relevant argument, through the medium of
                hearsay, prejudice, and one-sided cynicism.

                Nigel - do your homework. If you assert that handwashing is
                better, then back it up with evidence other than "it is and my brother
                will beat you up if you disagree".

                Mark - do your homework. If you disagree with the (admittedly
                preposterous sounding) volumes of water used in handwashing, then debunk
                the methodology of the study properly, instead of just saying "yeah, but
                my brother's bigger than your brother, so nyer". It's a study, remember,
                so presumably they have gathered implausible data, rather than just made
                it up.
                > The energy required to make a dishwasher and to dispose of it at the end
                > of its life, and to transport it and its parts is totally ignored, as is the
                > environmental effects of making and using the chemicals in dishwasher powder
                > and the salt and rinse liquids, which contains a whole cocktail of things other
                > than simple detergents. Then there's the hidden cost of transporting the consumables and
                > the packaging (over and above that for liquid detergent used in hand washing).
                >
                Yeah, damn right. On the other hand, sinks, taps, rubber gloves,
                and dishcloths just grow on trees locally.

                There are always hidden costs - how about you dare to compare
                like with like? One thing I discovered about having a dishwasher is just
                how much space storing dirty crockery and washing and drying it takes.
                When I got a dishwasher, I suddenly found I had half a kitchen spare
                that I didn't have before. Cost that benefit, if you can.

                By the way, the energy consumed by a single return car trip from
                Manchester or Cambridge to say, Bristol would probably run an efficient
                dishwasher for a year.
                > Also dishwashers use more energy per-unit-water as they reheat the water to 60 degrees C. It
                > is not necessary to use hot or even warm water for dish washing most of the time as
                > liquid detergents function well at lower temperatures (exception being thick grease
                > which I try not to eat in the first place!)
                >
                That's just disingenuous. Our AAA+ uses 14 litres and around 1.4
                kWh, at 45-55 deg, depending on what the sensors say it should be.
                Cooler settings require more energy and/or water.
                > Anyway the article looks good on the surface, but seems to be cherry-picked
                > propaganda in reality.
                >
                Anyone can cherry pick.

                I am *really* not an advocate for mechanisation of domestic
                chores (I prefer not to bother in the first place :-) but Mark and Nigel
                both seem to have decided that dishwashers are Eeeviilllll, and assess
                the evidence accordingly. Like I said, do your homework.


                --
                Jay Linn

                Rant? Moi?

                Jay@...
                http://jay-linn.co.uk
              • Nigel
                ... OK, handwashing is better from my perspective because: I don t have space in my kitchen ( or the rest of my house ) for another bigass white good box. I
                Message 7 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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                  On 11 May 2006, at 20:36, Jay Linn wrote:

                  > Nigel - do your homework. If you assert that handwashing is
                  > better, then back it up with evidence other than "it is and my brother
                  > will beat you up if you disagree".

                  OK, handwashing is better from my perspective because:
                  I don't have space in my kitchen ( or the rest of my house ) for
                  another bigass white good box.
                  I got "better" things to spend £X00 on than said bigass white good box
                  -16 million colours is more tempting than a timesaving* device, for
                  one..
                  In my limited experience of dishwashers they don't always wash all that
                  well, my hands mostly do, which gives me another reason not to get one.

                  * Timesaving? Yea, how long does the washing up take, anyway? As
                  compared to the time loading the machine?

                  Are we off topic enough yet?

                  N.


                  --------------------------------
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                  What's your excuse?
                  http://www.blood.co.uk
                • Danny Colyer
                  ... Weren t the brown ones brown right from the start? I thought it was just the lighting in the leisure centre s reception area that made them look black.
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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                    Nigel wrote:
                    > So has everyone else's mug gone a funny brown colour that the BJC logo
                    > clearly shows through? Or is it a Manchester phenomenon?

                    Weren't the brown ones brown right from the start? I thought it was
                    just the lighting in the leisure centre's reception area that made them
                    look black.

                    Mine's certainly been brown since I finished the brandy hot chocolate
                    that I drank out of it a few hours after purchase.

                    --
                    Danny Colyer ( d@... )
                    <http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
                    Subscribe to PlusNet <http://www.colyer.plus.com/referral/>
                    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
                  • AndyN
                    For what its worth, I m with Nigel here! I have never owned a dishwasher and will never do so. I have no moral or ecological reason for this, simply I don t
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 11, 2006
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                      For what its worth, I'm with Nigel here! I have never owned a dishwasher and
                      will never do so. I have no moral or ecological reason for this, simply I
                      don't have space for a dishwasher. I think even if I had, my lifestyle being
                      what it is, plus the size of my kitchen, means I need to clean up after
                      every meal!

                      I think my big brother/big sister/twin sister has a dishwasher.... but I
                      don't care!

                      Jay, I have not done any research in any of my reasoning other than asking
                      the cats........ The cats say, hand washing is more ecological.... I dare
                      you to argue with Billy the 'fat' cat of Beamish, and Maise the 'timid' They
                      should know. After all cats will only eat out of clean bowls!

                      Now I think we are way of topic...........

                      Andy

                      Not wishing to mention j******g in this post in case it becomes more on
                      topic.
                    • Greenway, Simon
                      I find washing clubs in the dishwasher makes them sparkle. -Simon -- Visit our website at www.roke.co.uk Roke Manor Research Ltd, Roke Manor, Romsey, Hampshire
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                        I find washing clubs in the dishwasher makes them sparkle.

                        -Simon

                        --

                        Visit our website at www.roke.co.uk

                        Roke Manor Research Ltd, Roke Manor, Romsey, Hampshire SO51 0ZN, UK.

                        The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is proprietary to
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                      • Jay Linn
                        Note to self : Bring dishwasher and bloody long extension cold feed pipes to Bristol. -- Jay Linn Jay@jay-linn.co.uk http://jay-linn.co.uk
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                          Note to self : Bring dishwasher and bloody long extension cold feed
                          pipes to Bristol.

                          --
                          Jay Linn

                          Jay@...
                          http://jay-linn.co.uk
                        • Jonathan the Jester
                          I find if you leave a tree hugger in the dishwasher overnight they come out a lot cleaner, and they make far less noise, hug fewer trees and are limp enough to
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                            I find if you leave a tree hugger in the dishwasher overnight they come out
                            a lot cleaner, and they make far less noise, hug fewer trees and are limp
                            enough to juggle with.

                            Funny how these people are the first to set fire to their Poi, long before
                            they have actually mastered the art....

                            JUST KIDDING!


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Greenway, Simon" <simon.greenway@...>
                            To: <uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:22 AM
                            Subject: RE: [uk_jugglers] Mugs..


                            >I find washing clubs in the dishwasher makes them sparkle.
                            >
                            > -Simon
                            >
                            > --
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                            > Roke Manor Research Ltd and must not be passed to any third party without
                            > permission. This communication is for information only and shall not
                            > create or
                            > change any contractual relationship.
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                          • Jonathan the Jester
                            You can actually use the water collected in a water butt for a dishwasher...
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                              You can actually use the water collected in a water butt for a dishwasher...


                              > Note to self : Bring dishwasher and bloody long extension cold feed
                              > pipes to Bristol.
                              >
                              >
                              > Jay@...
                              > http://jay-linn.co.uk
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                            • Nigel
                              ... Wow!! If it only needs a cold water feed then you re right, these things are *really* energy-efficient.. Presumably there s some kind of dynamo running off
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                On 12 May 2006, at 09:26, Jay Linn wrote:

                                > Note to self : Bring dishwasher and bloody long extension cold feed
                                > pipes to Bristol.

                                Wow!! If it only needs a cold water feed then you're right, these
                                things are
                                *really* energy-efficient.. Presumably there's some kind of dynamo
                                running off the water pressure to provide the electricity?

                                ;-)

                                - But all that aside, I have even less need of a dishwasher at Bristol,
                                the moving finger do all my washing up for me....

                                N.

                                --------------------------------
                                Only 6% of the eligible UK population donate blood.
                                What's your excuse?
                                http://www.blood.co.uk
                              • Ewano
                                I think you ve all missed the point.. Surely you need two dishwashers. Then you can use stuff from the clean one and fill the dirty one, then when there is no
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                  I think you've all missed the point..

                                  Surely you need two dishwashers. Then you can use stuff from the clean one
                                  and fill the dirty one, then when there is no more stuff to use you just
                                  turn on the dirty one and it magically turns into the clean one.

                                  Plus your dishwashers last twice as long and can be used to make the start
                                  of a henge when they need replacing..

                                  Ewano


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jay Linn
                                  ... I. Want. A. Bristol. Henge. NOW!! -- Jay Linn Jay@jay-linn.co.uk http://jay-linn.co.uk
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                    Ewano wrote:
                                    > Plus your dishwashers last twice as long and can be used to make the start
                                    > of a henge when they need replacing..
                                    I. Want. A. Bristol. Henge.

                                    NOW!!

                                    --
                                    Jay Linn

                                    Jay@...
                                    http://jay-linn.co.uk
                                  • dave booth
                                    paper plates be the answer..... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                      paper plates be the answer.....

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                                    • AndyN
                                      Ewano are you going to be making said dishwashers from pallets or use a venture scout or 2. Andy
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                        Ewano are you going to be making said dishwashers from pallets or use a
                                        venture scout or 2.

                                        Andy
                                      • Plumsie
                                        ... They get too soggy however you wash them. maybe someone should try laminating some paper plates Pete
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                          >----- Original Message ----
                                          >From: dave booth davejellybean@...
                                          >To: uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Sent: Friday, 12 May, 2006 12:23:32 PM
                                          >Subject: Re: [uk_jugglers] Mugs..
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >paper plates be the answer.....

                                          They get too soggy however you wash them.

                                          maybe someone should try laminating some paper plates

                                          Pete
                                        • Glyn Hanton
                                          ... I don t think we need to bring the conversation round to butts now do we Jonathan ? -- Glyn Loaded Dice Design and Media http://www.loadeddice.co.uk -- No
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                            Jonathan the Jester wrote:

                                            >You can actually use the water collected in a water butt for a dishwasher...
                                            >
                                            >
                                            I don't think we need to bring the conversation round to butts now do we
                                            Jonathan ?

                                            --
                                            Glyn
                                            Loaded Dice Design and Media
                                            http://www.loadeddice.co.uk



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                                          • Glyn Hanton
                                            ... I hope we intended to use recycled paper here personally - I reckon just give up on crockery and eat from the bone (or stalk if that s your preference) --
                                            Message 21 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                              dave booth wrote:

                                              > paper plates be the answer.....
                                              >
                                              >
                                              I hope we intended to use recycled paper here

                                              personally - I reckon just give up on crockery and eat from the bone (or
                                              stalk if that's your preference)

                                              --
                                              Glyn
                                              Loaded Dice Design and Media
                                              http://www.loadeddice.co.uk



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                                            • Jonathan the Jester
                                              I do my best to lower the tone and Glyn always has to somehow elevate the value of the conversation... From: Glyn Hanton To:
                                              Message 22 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                                I do my best to lower the tone and Glyn always has to somehow elevate the
                                                value of the conversation...



                                                From: "Glyn Hanton" <glyn@...>
                                                To: <uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 1:51 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [uk_jugglers] Mugs..


                                                > Jonathan the Jester wrote:
                                                >
                                                >>You can actually use the water collected in a water butt for a
                                                >>dishwasher...
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                > I don't think we need to bring the conversation round to butts now do we
                                                > Jonathan ?
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Glyn
                                                > Loaded Dice Design and Media
                                                > http://www.loadeddice.co.uk
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                              • Jay Linn
                                                ... Guh? That s just a stupid idea. How on Earth are we supposed to make a henge out of paper plates? Duh. -- Jay Linn Jay@jay-linn.co.uk http://jay-linn.co.uk
                                                Message 23 of 25 , May 12, 2006
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                                                  dave booth wrote:
                                                  > paper plates be the answer.....

                                                  Guh?

                                                  That's just a stupid idea.

                                                  How on Earth are we supposed to make a henge out of paper plates?
                                                  Duh.

                                                  --
                                                  Jay Linn

                                                  Jay@...
                                                  http://jay-linn.co.uk
                                                • Jonathan the Jester
                                                  ... Guh? That s just a stupid idea. How on Earth are we supposed to make a henge out of paper plates? Duh. Jonathan replied: Easy, you wash them up, they turn
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , May 14, 2006
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                                                    dave booth wrote:
                                                    > paper plates be the answer.....

                                                    Guh?

                                                    That's just a stupid idea.

                                                    How on Earth are we supposed to make a henge out of paper plates?
                                                    Duh.

                                                    Jonathan replied:

                                                    Easy, you wash them up, they turn into paper mache. You can make them into
                                                    juggling clubs and then make a henge out of paper mache juggling clubs...

                                                    ...Who said this wan't on topic?



                                                    --
                                                    Jay Linn

                                                    Jay@...
                                                    http://jay-linn.co.uk





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