Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [uk_jugglers] London Juggling Convention cost

Expand Messages
  • Charlie Hull
    Thanks Charlie (snap!) for the budget, it s nice when people are open and honest about these things. By the way, I thought there were 225 people not 200... I
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 13, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Charlie (snap!) for the budget, it's nice when people are open and
      honest about these things. By the way, I thought there were 225 people not
      200...

      I agree with you about paying performers; at Cambridge conventions we also
      had a policy of paying all performers (even though some of them didn't want
      to be paid) and this contributed to the cost, although our main costs were
      down to the fact we had to hire both a college for the day and a theatre for
      the show (venues in Cambridge are very busy and very pricey).

      Although it's a wonderful idea to expect performers at a convention to work
      for free (and in fact many have in the past and still do) it does breed the
      idea that the years of practise and indeed the act they do isn't actually
      worth that much. A token amount however passes on the message that although
      the event is being run to a budget, the organisers do appreciate the effort
      the performers put in.

      If you go outside the world of conventions, I'm sure many of us have had the
      conversation that starts "Can you come and perform at our fete/fair/school?
      Oh no, we weren't going to pay anything, last year one of the parents did it
      for nothing!". I even remember someone telling me that Channel 4 refused to
      offer any payment for trapeze artists to perform on the Big Breakfast...it's
      a fact that a lot of people don't put any value on circus performance,
      somehow thinking that 'free publicity' is enough, or that you do it for fun
      and thus for free (not the same thing!).

      But the fact remains that £12.50 is still a high price to pay for a one-day
      juggling event, especially when you take into account travel charges around
      London as well. I don't think you can get away from that.

      I think my point was the value for money issue; I was purely stating that
      last time I came, the convention ran for two days and there were a lot more
      workshops organised (I think there was a grand total of 2 this year, am I
      right?). If you'd asked some of the usual suspects I'm sure you could have
      got some more workshops planned before the day.

      However I would like to thank you again for actually publishing the budget;
      if someone from Chocfest or another convention could do the same, we could
      compare the costs of venues etc. and I think this might help to explain the
      price disparity between many northern and southern conventions.

      Charlie
      Cambridge



      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Charlie Holland [mailto:charlie@...]
      > Sent: 13 November 2002 19:49
      > To: uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [uk_jugglers] London Juggling Convention cost
      >
      >
      > Thanks Charlie for the review, but I need to take issue with the
      > notion that
      > £12.50 is expensive - though I'm aware people would like to pay
      > less. Let's
      > look at the budget (bearing in mind that we have a policy of paying
      > something to people doing their job (apart from the students who
      > got in free
      > for helping lug mats and staging around!) - be it performing, teching or
      > being on reception! We could of course ask the performers to perform for
      > free, but as "the country's premiere circus school" we aim to produce
      > performers who do get paid (even if it's less than usual) and to attract
      > applicants who aim to be professional
      >
      >
      > Income
      > 200 at av £11 (£12.50/ u16 £8, u6 free) £2200
      > Stall hire £100
      > Bar Cont'n £125
      > TOTAL INCOME £2425
      >
      > Expenditure
      > 13 performers at average under £100 each, plus travel for one from abroad
      > £1100
      > stage hire £230
      > 2 Show Technicians (setting up, teching, running show and getting
      > out) £240
      > Film projector hire £175
      > First aider / reception £60
      > Consumables (gaffa tape etc.) £20
      > marketing £80
      > Planning and management of convention £200
      > TOTAL EXPEND £2095
      >
      > CONTRIBUTION to overhead (phone, light, heat, rates, rent, bank charges
      > etc.) £320
      > equivalent to £23 per hour for two large halls and one studio
      > (and who knows
      > how much it's going to cost to resolve the bizarre gas smell, if it ever
      > comes back!!)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Karen Whitby
      Fraid I must disagree with you: £12.50 is expencive. Although I sympathise with all your overheads there are many other conventions throughout the year with
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        'Fraid I must disagree with you: �12.50 is expencive. Although I sympathise with all your overheads there are many other conventions throughout the year with (dare I say it) better facilities & a much lower entrance fee, for example I recall a ChocFest a year or two ago which was virtually free. I am sure many more people would be prepared to help out if the entrance fee was lower - but for over a tenner I expect all mod cons to be laid on. This ethos of as cheap as possible plus volunteers has always worked very well at BJC/EJC.
        On the other hand, however, I must take the opportunity to praise the show which alone was worth the �12.50 (well almost).
        So I suggest CS put their thinking caps on & consider how to achieve better VFM - a proper entrance ticket/tag would be a good start!
        Karen
        Charlie Holland <charlie@...> wrote:Thanks Charlie for the review, but I need to take issue with the notion that
        �12.50 is expensive - though I'm aware people would like to pay less. Let's
        look at the budget (bearing in mind that we have a policy of paying
        something to people doing their job (apart from the students who got in free
        for helping lug mats and staging around!) - be it performing, teching or
        being on reception! We could of course ask the performers to perform for
        free, but as "the country's premiere circus school" we aim to produce
        performers who do get paid (even if it's less than usual) and to attract
        applicants who aim to be professional


        Income
        200 at av �11 (�12.50/ u16 �8, u6 free) �2200
        Stall hire �100
        Bar Cont'n �125
        TOTAL INCOME �2425

        Expenditure
        13 performers at average under �100 each, plus travel for one from abroad
        �1100
        stage hire �230
        2 Show Technicians (setting up, teching, running show and getting out) �240
        Film projector hire �175
        First aider / reception �60
        Consumables (gaffa tape etc.) �20
        marketing �80
        Planning and management of convention �200
        TOTAL EXPEND �2095

        CONTRIBUTION to overhead (phone, light, heat, rates, rent, bank charges
        etc.) �320
        equivalent to �23 per hour for two large halls and one studio (and who knows
        how much it's going to cost to resolve the bizarre gas smell, if it ever
        comes back!!)



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        ---------------------------------
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Carter
        ... From: Karen Whitby To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [uk_jugglers] London
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Karen Whitby" <jugglejay@...>
          To: <uk_jugglers@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 9:34 AM
          Subject: Re: [uk_jugglers] London Juggling Convention cost



          > 'Fraid I must disagree with you: £12.50 is expencive. Although I
          sympathise with all your overheads
          > there are many other conventions throughout the year with (dare I say
          it) better facilities & a much
          > lower entrance fee, for example I recall a ChocFest a year or two ago
          which was virtually free.

          Well, there's a funny story about that, suffice it to say, that year was
          unusual. Chocfest has normally been around the 6-7 quid mark. Next
          year's may prove to be unusual too...
        • paul.seward@bristol.ac.uk
          --On 14 November 2002 10:37 +0000 Steve Carter ... Is there anything usual about Chocfest? -Paul
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            --On 14 November 2002 10:37 +0000 Steve Carter
            <steveatjugglerdotnet@...> wrote:

            > Well, there's a funny story about that, suffice it to say, that year was
            > unusual. Chocfest has normally been around the 6-7 quid mark. Next
            > year's may prove to be unusual too...

            Is there anything "usual" about Chocfest?

            -Paul
          • Steve Carter
            ... You mean apart from the stunningly high quality of the show, the good sized hall, ample space, great variety of activities, helpful stewards, friendly
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              >
              > Is there anything "usual" about Chocfest?
              >

              You mean apart from the stunningly high quality of the show, the good
              sized hall, ample space, great variety of activities, helpful stewards,
              friendly crowd, cheap beer, great t-shirt and competitive entry fee?

              Apart from that I'd say chocfest was a pretty hit-and-miss affair.
            • paul.seward@bristol.ac.uk
              --On 14 November 2002 10:48 +0000 Steve Carter ... And a pissed up little chap in the corner muttering something about his birthday... ... I d say chocfest was
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                --On 14 November 2002 10:48 +0000 Steve Carter
                <steveatjugglerdotnet@...> wrote:

                > You mean apart from the stunningly high quality of the show, the good
                > sized hall, ample space, great variety of activities, helpful stewards,
                > friendly crowd, cheap beer, great t-shirt and competitive entry fee?

                And a pissed up little chap in the corner muttering something about his
                birthday...

                > Apart from that I'd say chocfest was a pretty hit-and-miss affair.

                I'd say chocfest was a not-to-be-missed affair.

                BTW, when is it next year? I can't find any details on the IJDb :-P

                -Paul
              • Rob Stone
                snip .. to give a flavour of past chocfest (the next one is in doubt as the uni now want to up the charges to an uneconomic level where we would have to
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  snip ..
                  to give a flavour of past chocfest (the next one is in doubt as the
                  uni now want to up the charges to an uneconomic level where we would
                  have to charge 12.50) here are some approximate costings.

                  BTW We have never been free, usually 5..6 quid. one year we were told
                  erronously we couldnt charge for entry so we asked people to buy 5
                  quid worth of raffle tickets, some people took this to mean it was
                  free, we lost 700 quid !


                  >Income
                  >200 at av £11 (£12.50/ u16 £8, u6 free) £2200

                  200 at av £6 £ 1200


                  >Stall hire £100
                  nothing - but raffle prizes (unicycle+bits)

                  >Bar Cont'n £125
                  nothing

                  t-shirts - 50 quid profit
                  raffle 150

                  >TOTAL INCOME £2425
                  somewhere around the 1200..1500 mark

                  >
                  >Expenditure

                  >13 performers at average under £100 each, plus travel for one from abroad
                  >£1100
                  show budget approx 1000
                  (we start low and give the performers a cut of anything we make)

                  >stage hire £230

                  stage, lights sounds 250

                  >2 Show Technicians (setting up, teching, running show and getting out) £240

                  door staff 100
                  >Film projector hire £175
                  0
                  >First aider / reception £60
                  25
                  >Consumables (gaffa tape etc.) £20

                  consumables- chocolate - 50 quid

                  >marketing £80
                  0

                  >Planning and management of convention £200
                  0

                  approx 1400
                  >TOTAL EXPEND £2095
                  >
                  >CONTRIBUTION to overhead (phone, light, heat, rates, rent, bank charges
                  >etc.) £320
                  >equivalent to £23 per hour for two large halls and one studio (and who knows
                  >how much it's going to cost to resolve the bizarre gas smell, if it ever
                  >comes back!!)

                  0


                  what we do is promise our performers expenses plus a meagre income (i
                  think normally 60 quid each and the when give them more (not sure how
                  much but i think about extra 25 quid ?) if we make a profit and
                  therfore is sort of balances out. Of course we do have BJC cash to
                  fall back on if it all goes tits up.

                  *ALL* our helpers pay to get in and if we make a profit they get
                  their t-shirt for free.

                  anywasy thats just more info for conv. orgs. I have sympathy with the
                  expense issue, we are used to paying little for a lot, but you dont
                  always have control over expenses, i now lancaster used to charge a
                  fortuen for their Gym.
                  --
                  Rob.

                  .........................................................................
                  Rob Stone, Psychology, University of York, York, YO10 5DD. 01904 433161
                  .......................................................................
                • Steve Carter
                  ... And yes that does include Rob!
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 14, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > *ALL* our helpers pay to get in and if we make a profit they get
                    > their t-shirt for free.

                    And yes that does include Rob!
                  • circuskevin
                    Charlie Hull... snip were a lot more ... year, am I ... could have ... I would have thought pupils at The Circus Space would be queueing up to give
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 16, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Charlie Hull...
                      snip>
                      were a lot more
                      > workshops organised (I think there was a grand total of 2 this
                      year, am I
                      > right?). If you'd asked some of the usual suspects I'm sure you
                      could have
                      > got some more workshops planned before the day.

                      I would have thought pupils at 'The Circus Space' would be queueing
                      up to give workshops! The knack of teaching I am sure is useful in
                      many a professionals career. What better place to practice than a
                      juggling convention?
                      Maybe your graduates are overrun with performing opportunities?

                      Circus Kevin
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.