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The new chap

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  • Bill Sells
    Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail. I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 13, 2009
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      Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
      I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
      Cheers Bill
    • Howard Matthews
      Hello Bill, and welcome to the group. You re right about the harts-tongue, though I m not sure about the next one. If in addition to the drooping fronds shown
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 13, 2009
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        Hello Bill, and welcome to the group.

        You're right about the harts-tongue, though I'm not sure about the next one.

        If in addition to the drooping fronds shown in your photo, it has near-vertical fronds from last year, that are now brown and dead looking, then yes it is hard fern.

        Take a look underneath the fronds. If they have more-or-less circular, light-brown coloured sori (that's the fruiting bodies) then it's a polypody.

        If it is the latter, don't worry too much about trying to identify it any further. As a beginner you need to walk before you can run! There are four different species of this genus in the UK, two of them common, one of them with a mainly southern and western distribution (and only on lime), and the fourth a new one only recently discovered in Yorkshire. Then there are three known hybrids. Even the experts have difficulty with them! Which book are you using, by the way?

        I'll hazard a guess that your one is Polypodium interjectum, which generally grows on neutral to limey substrates. Is it growing naturally in your garden or was it planted?

        Your 3rd photo is of male fern, I think, and a youngish one. They tend to stay green through the winter whereas more mature ones are deciduous. The species certainly commonly appears in gardens, and if you live in a fairly "ferny" area you will have plenty of them.



        --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Sells" <william.sells@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
        > I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
        > Cheers Bill
        >
      • Steve
        Hi Bill Welcome to the group ... From: Bill Sells To: Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:50 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 13, 2009
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          Hi Bill

          Welcome to the group


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bill Sells" <william.sells@...>
          To: <uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:50 PM
          Subject: [uk-ferns] The new chap


          > Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
          > I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I
          > think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in
          > abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the
          > winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble
          > identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still
          > not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
          > Cheers Bill
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • MATT BUSBY
          Hello Bil Welcome to the Group. I hate to disagree with Howard but I think the Polypodium is P. Vulgare.....its very long and narrow......P interjectum tends
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 13, 2009
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            Hello Bil
            Welcome to the Group.
            I hate to disagree with Howard but I think the Polypodium is P. Vulgare.....its very long and narrow......P interjectum tends to be broader and somewhat shorter........but that only my opinion. You really need to get it looked at 'in the flesh' to be absolutely sure. The first photo looks rather shiny for Dryopteris. Pity the camera was not closer to the frond.
             
            Good Luck with your fern growing..................Matt B

            --- On Fri, 13/3/09, Howard Matthews <howard.fernman@...> wrote:
            From: Howard Matthews <howard.fernman@...>
            Subject: [uk-ferns] Re: The new chap
            To: uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, 13 March, 2009, 7:02 PM

            Hello Bill, and welcome to the group.

            You're right about the harts-tongue, though I'm not sure about the next one.

            If in addition to the drooping fronds shown in your photo, it has near-vertical fronds from last year, that are now brown and dead looking, then yes it is hard fern.

            Take a look underneath the fronds. If they have more-or-less circular, light-brown coloured sori (that's the fruiting bodies) then it's a polypody.

            If it is the latter, don't worry too much about trying to identify it any further. As a beginner you need to walk before you can run! There are four different species of this genus in the UK, two of them common, one of them with a mainly southern and western distribution (and only on lime), and the fourth a new one only recently discovered in Yorkshire. Then there are three known hybrids. Even the experts have difficulty with them! Which book are you using, by the way?

            I'll hazard a guess that your one is Polypodium interjectum, which generally grows on neutral to limey substrates. Is it growing naturally in your garden or was it planted?

            Your 3rd photo is of male fern, I think, and a youngish one. They tend to stay green through the winter whereas more mature ones are deciduous. The species certainly commonly appears in gardens, and if you live in a fairly "ferny" area you will have plenty of them.

            --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroup s.com, "Bill Sells" <william.sells@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
            > I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
            > Cheers Bill
            >

          • Bill Sells
            Hello again, Thanks for the greetings Howard, Steve and Matt. In reply to your question Howard, at the moment the books I am using are John Kelly s Ferns in
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 14, 2009
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              Hello again,
              Thanks for the greetings Howard, Steve and Matt. In reply to your question Howard, at the moment the books I am using are John Kelly's Ferns in your Garden and The Observer's book of Ferns. My next question is, can you tell me what books should I look out for ? remembering I am a novice. I did once belong to The British Pteridological Society, the only problem was when I opened their journal it was like a monkey looking at the back of a watch. It was way over my head.
              Cheers Bill --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Matthews" <howard.fernman@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Bill, and welcome to the group.
              >
              > You're right about the harts-tongue, though I'm not sure about the next one.
              >
              > If in addition to the drooping fronds shown in your photo, it has near-vertical fronds from last year, that are now brown and dead looking, then yes it is hard fern.
              >
              > Take a look underneath the fronds. If they have more-or-less circular, light-brown coloured sori (that's the fruiting bodies) then it's a polypody.
              >
              > If it is the latter, don't worry too much about trying to identify it any further. As a beginner you need to walk before you can run! There are four different species of this genus in the UK, two of them common, one of them with a mainly southern and western distribution (and only on lime), and the fourth a new one only recently discovered in Yorkshire. Then there are three known hybrids. Even the experts have difficulty with them! Which book are you using, by the way?
              >
              > I'll hazard a guess that your one is Polypodium interjectum, which generally grows on neutral to limey substrates. Is it growing naturally in your garden or was it planted?
              >
              > Your 3rd photo is of male fern, I think, and a youngish one. They tend to stay green through the winter whereas more mature ones are deciduous. The species certainly commonly appears in gardens, and if you live in a fairly "ferny" area you will have plenty of them.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Sells" <william.sells@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
              > > I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
              > > Cheers Bill
              > >
              >
            • MATT BUSBY
              If you ae so keen on growing ferns, you really should rejoin the BPS. I assume from your comments that you were looking at the Society s Fern Gazette. Having
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 14, 2009
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                If you ae so keen on growing ferns, you really should rejoin the BPS. I assume from your comments that you were looking at the Society's Fern Gazette. Having been a member for close on 38 years, I get very little pleasure from the Gazette too. You do not need to take the gazette. You can join and opt not to take it and still enjoy lots of the Society's activities. Its worth the subscription just for the plant and spore exchange schemes.
                 
                Members are always pleased to help in any way they can.
                 
                I suggest you get a copy of THE PLANTFINDERS GUIDE TO GARDEN FERNS by Martin Rickard, pub by David and Charles. ISBN 0 7153 0806-8
                 
                Highly recommended!..................Matt B

                --- On Sat, 14/3/09, Bill Sells <william.sells@...> wrote:
                From: Bill Sells <william.sells@...>
                Subject: [uk-ferns] Re: The new chap
                To: uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, 14 March, 2009, 10:38 AM

                Hello again,
                Thanks for the greetings Howard, Steve and Matt. In reply to your question Howard, at the moment the books I am using are John Kelly's Ferns in your Garden and The Observer's book of Ferns. My next question is, can you tell me what books should I look out for ? remembering I am a novice. I did once belong to The British Pteridological Society, the only problem was when I opened their journal it was like a monkey looking at the back of a watch. It was way over my head.
                Cheers Bill --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroup s.com, "Howard Matthews" <howard.fernman@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Bill, and welcome to the group.
                >
                > You're right about the harts-tongue, though I'm not sure about the next one.
                >
                > If in addition to the drooping fronds shown in your photo, it has near-vertical fronds from last year, that are now brown and dead looking, then yes it is hard fern.
                >
                > Take a look underneath the fronds. If they have more-or-less circular, light-brown coloured sori (that's the fruiting bodies) then it's a polypody.
                >
                > If it is the latter, don't worry too much about trying to identify it any further. As a beginner you need to walk before you can run! There are four different species of this genus in the UK, two of them common, one of them with a mainly southern and western distribution (and only on lime), and the fourth a new one only recently discovered in Yorkshire. Then there are three known hybrids. Even the experts have difficulty with them! Which book are you using, by the way?
                >
                > I'll hazard a guess that your one is Polypodium interjectum, which generally grows on neutral to limey substrates. Is it growing naturally in your garden or was it planted?
                >
                > Your 3rd photo is of male fern, I think, and a youngish one. They tend to stay green through the winter whereas more mature ones are deciduous. The species certainly commonly appears in gardens, and if you live in a fairly "ferny" area you will have plenty of them.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroup s.com, "Bill Sells" <william.sells@ > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello to all, Having just retired I am now starting on the fern trail.
                > > I have put 3 photos under French 50 The harts tongue and the hard fern I think are right, can you tell me what the other is, they all grow in abundance in my garden, the unidentified one is green all through the winter. I have the problem in that just starting out, I have trouble identifying the ferns, I see the plant, look at the book and I am still not sure. Oh well that's the joy of learning.
                > > Cheers Bill
                > >
                >

              • Howard Matthews
                Currently there is virtually only one field guide available for identifying native ferns, and that is The Fern Guide by James Merryweather (a BPS member, of
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 14, 2009
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                  Currently there is virtually only one field guide available for identifying native ferns, and that is The Fern Guide by James Merryweather (a BPS member, of course!) and published by Field Studies Council.

                  It is very good for beginners as well as being relatively inexpensive and it is light, though you'll need a very large pocket to fit it in.

                  You can buy it direct from here:
                  http://www.field-studies-council.org/publications/pubsinfo.aspx?Code=OP117

                  FSC also sell a folding colour card of ferns, although I personally would not like to rely on this for identification purposes. In my opinion the book is infinitely better.
                • Christopher Roy Fraser-Jenkins
                  Dear all, I just got back to a computer - delighted to hear of the good old Observer s book of ferns! That s how I started when I climbed out of my
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 14, 2009
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                    Dear all,
                    I just got back to a computer - delighted to hear of the good old Observer's book of ferns! That's how I started when I climbed out of my prep-school dorm, grabbed some ferns and identified them the next morning with the little book (though for a while I thought I might have found Dryopteris villarii in the Malvern Hills! - whoops, I mean D. mindshelkensis, of course! So I also had the same difficulty to get some of them).
                    I must get that fern guide - it sounds really good - I can look forward to it when I come back to the UK later this year (I think).
                    Can't open the pictures up here in the North-East Frontier (India/Myanmar/Tibet border), but I'm making for home in Kathmandu next week - it takes some time to get there - and will look forward to seeing them then.
                    One thing - the new Pteridologist from the BPS is now a really fascinating journal after the Merryfication of its style, and I'd think everyone can find a lot of fun and interest in that.
                    Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which way you look at it, there's no guide to what I'm finding up here - quite a number are actually new, I believe, and others are very distinctive things unknown from India which will take a bit of research! Anyone know of a little scaly Ctenitis about a foot high or so, with a proliferous bulbil near the tip? Or a minature Thelypteris, which is only a single blade about 6 inches long and doesn't appear to get bigger at all? A proliferous Cyrtomium? A bright red rachis and midribed Pteris with many very narrow pinnules packed together? It's all good ferny fun up here.....
                    Cheers,
                    Chris F.-J.



                    --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Matthews" <howard.fernman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Currently there is virtually only one field guide available for identifying native ferns, and that is The Fern Guide by James Merryweather (a BPS member, of course!) and published by Field Studies Council.
                    >
                    > It is very good for beginners as well as being relatively inexpensive and it is light, though you'll need a very large pocket to fit it in.
                    >
                    > You can buy it direct from here:
                    > http://www.field-studies-council.org/publications/pubsinfo.aspx?Code=OP117
                    >
                    > FSC also sell a folding colour card of ferns, although I personally would not like to rely on this for identification purposes. In my opinion the book is infinitely better.
                    >
                  • steve.woodward@ntlworld.com
                    Will look forward to seeing photos of those if you have them Chris ... From: Christopher Roy Fraser-Jenkins chrisophilus@yahoo.co.uk Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 14, 2009
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                      Will look forward to seeing photos of those if you have them Chris

                      Original Message:
                      -----------------
                      From: Christopher Roy Fraser-Jenkins chrisophilus@...
                      Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:55:32 -0000
                      To: uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [uk-ferns] Observer's delight


                      Dear all,
                      I just got back to a computer - delighted to hear of the good old
                      Observer's book of ferns! That's how I started when I climbed out of my
                      prep-school dorm, grabbed some ferns and identified them the next morning
                      with the little book (though for a while I thought I might have found
                      Dryopteris villarii in the Malvern Hills! - whoops, I mean D.
                      mindshelkensis, of course! So I also had the same difficulty to get some of
                      them).
                      I must get that fern guide - it sounds really good - I can look
                      forward to it when I come back to the UK later this year (I think).
                      Can't open the pictures up here in the North-East Frontier
                      (India/Myanmar/Tibet border), but I'm making for home in Kathmandu next
                      week - it takes some time to get there - and will look forward to seeing
                      them then.
                      One thing - the new Pteridologist from the BPS is now a really
                      fascinating journal after the Merryfication of its style, and I'd think
                      everyone can find a lot of fun and interest in that.
                      Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which way you look at it,
                      there's no guide to what I'm finding up here - quite a number are actually
                      new, I believe, and others are very distinctive things unknown from India
                      which will take a bit of research! Anyone know of a little scaly Ctenitis
                      about a foot high or so, with a proliferous bulbil near the tip? Or a
                      minature Thelypteris, which is only a single blade about 6 inches long and
                      doesn't appear to get bigger at all? A proliferous Cyrtomium? A bright
                      red rachis and midribed Pteris with many very narrow pinnules packed
                      together? It's all good ferny fun up here.....
                      Cheers,
                      Chris F.-J.



                      --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Matthews" <howard.fernman@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Currently there is virtually only one field guide available for
                      identifying native ferns, and that is The Fern Guide by James Merryweather
                      (a BPS member, of course!) and published by Field Studies Council.
                      >
                      > It is very good for beginners as well as being relatively inexpensive and
                      it is light, though you'll need a very large pocket to fit it in.
                      >
                      > You can buy it direct from here:
                      > http://www.field-studies-council.org/publications/pubsinfo.aspx?Code=OP117
                      >
                      > FSC also sell a folding colour card of ferns, although I personally would
                      not like to rely on this for identification purposes. In my opinion the
                      book is infinitely better.
                      >




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