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Re: Dryopteris x critica spores?

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  • chrisophilus
    Hello there, Plant- and part-size can be misleading as one sometimes gets gigantic, but ordinary plants. Stomatal size is a lot more important - but really
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 1, 2010
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      Hello there,
      Plant- and part-size can be misleading as one sometimes gets gigantic, but ordinary plants. Stomatal size is a lot more important - but really the thing to look at is the spores!
      Are they by-and-large [sorry, not very scientific!] abortive, or mostly good - and are there some big spherical diplospores etc. - assuming they are fully ripe.
      I can't see the picture 'til I get back to Kathmandu in a few days (I'm at the Botanical Survey of India in Dehra Dun right now). But I'lll try to comment then when the rush is over, as I'm familiar with a number of known, chromosome-counted plants of them, and many whose spores and morphology mean they must be the hybrids. However Ken Trewren knows the frond-morphology of these hybrids better than anyone!
      All the best,
      Chris F.-J.


      --- In uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com, "k.ballintijn" <kballint@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear forum members,
      >
      > Last year, in november, I found in the Purmerbos, mentioned earlier on this forum, a rather robust "male-fern". The foto's are on the url http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/46302457
      >
      > Total leaf-length is 109 cm
      > Maximum pinna length 17 cm.
      > Corresponding maximum pinna width is 3 cm.
      >
      > I have also measured the stomata length. This is on the average 65 micron (based on 17 measurements). This length is much larger than the stomata sizes of D.borreri/cambrense or D. filix-mas given by Schneller 1974 in Ber.Schweiz.Bot.Ges. 84 (3) 195-217. As D. borreri was earlier identified for the Purmerbos i wonder if this could be
      > D. x critica.
      >
      > Could you please comment ?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Koos Ballintijn
      >
    • Wim de Winter
      ... Such relative terms are useful once you know the taxa, but they do not convey the idea to not-knowers. We could use some measurement data here, I think. Of
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 2, 2010
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        > Are they by-and-large [sorry, not very scientific!]
        Such relative terms are useful once you know the taxa, but they do not
        convey the idea to not-knowers. We could use some measurement data here,
        I think.
        Of spores, sori and stomata.

        regards,

        Wim
      • KEN TREWREN
        Dear Koos, Please find attached a picture of the spores of D. x critica. I haven t studied stomatal length I m afraid. I hope that this helps (in conjunction
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 10, 2010
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        Dear Koos,

        Please find attached a picture of the spores of D. x critica. I haven't
        studied stomatal length I'm afraid. I hope that this helps (in conjunction wih
        what I have said on the Yahoo Fern Group website). If you would like me to
        check the spores, could you please send me a pinna with ripe spores in the
        summer?

        Best wishes

        Ken



        ------ Original Message ------
        Received: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:28:38 PM GMT
        From: "k.ballintijn" <kballint@...>
        To: uk-ferns@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [uk-ferns] Dryopteris x critica ?

        Dear forum members,

        Last year, in november, I found in the Purmerbos, mentioned earlier on this
        forum, a rather robust "male-fern". The foto's are on the url
        http://waarneming.nl/waarneming/view/46302457

        Total leaf-length is 109 cm
        Maximum pinna length 17 cm.
        Corresponding maximum pinna width is 3 cm.

        I have also measured the stomata length. This is on the average 65 micron
        (based on 17 measurements). This length is much larger than the stomata sizes
        of D.borreri/cambrense or D. filix-mas given by Schneller 1974 in
        Ber.Schweiz.Bot.Ges. 84 (3) 195-217. As D. borreri was earlier identified for
        the Purmerbos i wonder if this could be
        D. x critica.

        Could you please comment ?

        Regards,

        Koos Ballintijn
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