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Re: [ujeni] life expectancy

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  • Scott Geibel
    before we automatically assume that dropping the price of AIDS drugs will make everything in Africa all Hunky Dory, we have a lot to learn from current trial
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
      before we automatically assume that dropping the price of AIDS drugs will make everything in Africa all Hunky Dory, we have a lot to learn from current trial programs and their actual impacts. Uptake of VCT- let alone uptake of many trial ARV programs (where prices have already been lowered)- remains low. At present the issue remains complex, and I unfortunately think it may be awhile before we see a significant direct correlation between decreased drug prices and increased life expectancy in these countries- no matter how much money you poor in. There are too many other related factors (VCT still, stigma and discrimination, barrier methods, etc) that require equal if not greater attention.

      Nevertheless, we are already putting money into AIDS drugs here... and soon will be putting in much much more when some of these trial programs go to national upscale- Scott


      Weber wrote:
      Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
      terms of money.  The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
      ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
      sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
      Do we give it as much aid as other countries?  In fact, did I hear Peace
      Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
      was doing so well?  We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
      Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he taught
      in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S.  But there
      Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list.  So maybe
      if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
      some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up.  I suspect
      that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
      while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
      civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
      people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
      southern continent.  I forgive you, Paul,  for behaving like the accountant
      you are but not for being an inveterate cynic!    Cathy




      From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

      >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
      >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
      >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
      >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

      >From: holland@...

      >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest
      >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
      >africa":  botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
      >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
      >
      >-M




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    • Paul DEVER
      Mismanagement also accounts for a fair share of corruption. If all goverrment dependents had to go to the local hospitals and wait in line, and had to go to
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
        Mismanagement also accounts for a fair share of corruption. If all
        goverrment dependents had to go to the local hospitals and wait in line, and
        had to go to the public schools, and had the same access to everything as
        the regular Mr. Phiri did, then many of these peoblems would have been
        solved, yes even AIDS could be under control....coz they would have made
        sure that if they could not get their kids to SAfrica to get the AZT and
        such, that they would teach them about prophylaxis...






        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: "Weber" <weber@...>
        Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
        To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
        Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800

        Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
        terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
        ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
        sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
        Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
        Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
        was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
        Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he taught
        in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
        Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So maybe
        if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
        some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I suspect
        that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
        while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
        civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
        people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
        southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the accountant
        you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




        From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

        >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
        >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
        >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
        >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

        >From: holland@...

        >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
        lowest
        >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
        >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
        >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
        >
        >-M





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      • Paul DEVER
        Oh, and Cathy, I AM the cynic that keeps the world going...except that sometimes your hubby keeps me in check... It would be nice if we could make people
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
          Oh, and Cathy, I AM the cynic that keeps the world going...except that
          sometimes your hubby keeps me in check...

          It would be nice if we could make people understand that throwing money AND
          constructive programs would help, not just money, and nnot just grass roots
          education programs...

          All these combined would help us in the end...

          Did I tell you about the time we went to Timbuktou?????

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        • Luz Huntington
          Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails, the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations, the United
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
            Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails,
            the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations,
            the United States and all over would use condoms more. Its such a cheap way
            to prevent AIDS and its aftermath.

            Luz






            >From: "Weber" <weber@...>
            >Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
            >To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
            >Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
            >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800
            >
            >Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
            >terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
            >ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
            >sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
            >Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
            >Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
            >was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
            >Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
            >taught
            >in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
            >Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
            >maybe
            >if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
            >some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I suspect
            >that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
            >while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
            >civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
            >people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
            >southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the accountant
            >you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
            >
            > >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
            >and
            > >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
            > >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
            > >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...
            >
            > >From: holland@...
            >
            > >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
            >lowest
            > >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part
            >of
            > >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
            > >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
            > >
            > >-M
            >
            >
            >


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          • Paul DEVER
            Good point, too...however, I remember FSNs telling me about the local hospitals which would reuse needles for shots, and not all the time sterilize them. Also,
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
              Good point, too...however, I remember FSNs telling me about the local
              hospitals which would reuse needles for shots, and not all the time
              sterilize them.

              Also, I am not sure how many transfusions go on in Malawi or elsewhere, so
              that is another source of AIDS...






              ----Original Message Follows----
              From: "Luz Huntington" <luzhunt@...>
              Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
              To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
              Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:08:41 +0000

              Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails,
              the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations,
              the United States and all over would use condoms more. Its such a cheap way
              to prevent AIDS and its aftermath.

              Luz






              >From: "Weber" <weber@...>
              >Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
              >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800
              >
              >Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
              >terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
              >ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
              >sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
              AIDS?)
              >Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
              >Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
              >was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
              >Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
              >taught
              >in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
              >Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
              >maybe
              >if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
              >some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
              suspect
              >that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
              >while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
              >civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
              only
              >people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
              >southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
              accountant
              >you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
              >
              > >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
              >and
              > >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
              > >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
              > >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...
              >
              > >From: holland@...
              >
              > >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
              >lowest
              > >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part
              >of
              > >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
              > >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
              > >
              > >-M
              >
              >
              >


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            • Christine Chumbler
              Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush s doubling the size of the
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
                Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC
                is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush's doubling the
                size of the agency hoohaw.

                >>> weber@... 11/2/02 11:30 PM >>>
                Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think
                in
                terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life
                expectancy
                ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more
                economically
                sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
                AIDS?)
                Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear
                Peace
                Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the
                country
                was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                taught
                in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But
                there
                Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                maybe
                if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available
                with
                some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
                suspect
                that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live
                forever
                while the countries lose their teachers, their really good
                hard-working
                civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
                only
                people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
                accountant
                you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




                From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

                >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                and
                >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why
                the
                >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

                >From: holland@...

                >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                lowest
                >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our
                part of
                >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi
                (39.3),
                >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                >
                >-M




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              • Paul DEVER
                Does that bode well or not: 1. It is an indicator of politics (which I thought PC was above...) 2. PC failed (by not putting systems in place to keep it
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
                  Does that bode well or not:

                  1. It is an indicator of politics (which I thought PC was above...)

                  2. PC failed (by not putting systems in place to keep it running properly
                  after departure.)

                  3. PC left (along with other agencies a culture of dependence a la "Lords of
                  Poverty")

                  4. AIDS is taking over.

                  I like none of these selections...






                  ----Original Message Follows----
                  From: "Christine Chumbler" <cchumble@...>
                  Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                  To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
                  Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:32:37 -0500

                  Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC
                  is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush's doubling the
                  size of the agency hoohaw.

                  >>> weber@... 11/2/02 11:30 PM >>>
                  Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think
                  in
                  terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life
                  expectancy
                  ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more
                  economically
                  sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
                  AIDS?)
                  Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear
                  Peace
                  Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the
                  country
                  was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                  Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                  taught
                  in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But
                  there
                  Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                  maybe
                  if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available
                  with
                  some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
                  suspect
                  that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live
                  forever
                  while the countries lose their teachers, their really good
                  hard-working
                  civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
                  only
                  people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                  southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
                  accountant
                  you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




                  From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

                  >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                  and
                  >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                  >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why
                  the
                  >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

                  >From: holland@...

                  >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                  lowest
                  >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our
                  part of
                  >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi
                  (39.3),
                  >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                  >
                  >-M




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