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life expectancy

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  • holland@panasas.com
    an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in our part of africa :
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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      an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3), lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).

      -M
    • Paul DEVER
      The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other countries on
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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        The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
        other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
        countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
        continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: holland@...
        Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
        To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [ujeni] life expectancy
        Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:07:41 -0500

        an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest
        average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
        africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
        lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).

        -M


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      • Weber
        Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy ages of
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2002
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          Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
          terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
          ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
          sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
          Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
          Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
          was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
          Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he taught
          in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
          Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So maybe
          if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
          some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I suspect
          that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
          while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
          civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
          people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
          southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the accountant
          you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




          From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

          >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
          >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
          >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
          >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

          >From: holland@...

          >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest
          >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
          >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
          >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
          >
          >-M
        • Scott Geibel
          before we automatically assume that dropping the price of AIDS drugs will make everything in Africa all Hunky Dory, we have a lot to learn from current trial
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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            before we automatically assume that dropping the price of AIDS drugs will make everything in Africa all Hunky Dory, we have a lot to learn from current trial programs and their actual impacts. Uptake of VCT- let alone uptake of many trial ARV programs (where prices have already been lowered)- remains low. At present the issue remains complex, and I unfortunately think it may be awhile before we see a significant direct correlation between decreased drug prices and increased life expectancy in these countries- no matter how much money you poor in. There are too many other related factors (VCT still, stigma and discrimination, barrier methods, etc) that require equal if not greater attention.

            Nevertheless, we are already putting money into AIDS drugs here... and soon will be putting in much much more when some of these trial programs go to national upscale- Scott


            Weber wrote:
            Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
            terms of money.  The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
            ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
            sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
            Do we give it as much aid as other countries?  In fact, did I hear Peace
            Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
            was doing so well?  We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
            Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he taught
            in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S.  But there
            Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list.  So maybe
            if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
            some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up.  I suspect
            that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
            while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
            civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
            people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
            southern continent.  I forgive you, Paul,  for behaving like the accountant
            you are but not for being an inveterate cynic!    Cathy




            From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

            >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
            >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
            >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
            >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

            >From: holland@...

            >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the lowest
            >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
            >africa":  botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
            >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
            >
            >-M




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          • Paul DEVER
            Mismanagement also accounts for a fair share of corruption. If all goverrment dependents had to go to the local hospitals and wait in line, and had to go to
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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              Mismanagement also accounts for a fair share of corruption. If all
              goverrment dependents had to go to the local hospitals and wait in line, and
              had to go to the public schools, and had the same access to everything as
              the regular Mr. Phiri did, then many of these peoblems would have been
              solved, yes even AIDS could be under control....coz they would have made
              sure that if they could not get their kids to SAfrica to get the AZT and
              such, that they would teach them about prophylaxis...






              ----Original Message Follows----
              From: "Weber" <weber@...>
              Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
              To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
              Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800

              Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
              terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
              ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
              sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
              Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
              Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
              was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
              Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he taught
              in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
              Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So maybe
              if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
              some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I suspect
              that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
              while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
              civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
              people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
              southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the accountant
              you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




              From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

              >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US and
              >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
              >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
              >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

              >From: holland@...

              >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
              lowest
              >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part of
              >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
              >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
              >
              >-M





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            • Paul DEVER
              Oh, and Cathy, I AM the cynic that keeps the world going...except that sometimes your hubby keeps me in check... It would be nice if we could make people
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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                Oh, and Cathy, I AM the cynic that keeps the world going...except that
                sometimes your hubby keeps me in check...

                It would be nice if we could make people understand that throwing money AND
                constructive programs would help, not just money, and nnot just grass roots
                education programs...

                All these combined would help us in the end...

                Did I tell you about the time we went to Timbuktou?????

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              • Luz Huntington
                Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails, the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations, the United
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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                  Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails,
                  the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations,
                  the United States and all over would use condoms more. Its such a cheap way
                  to prevent AIDS and its aftermath.

                  Luz






                  >From: "Weber" <weber@...>
                  >Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
                  >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800
                  >
                  >Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
                  >terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
                  >ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
                  >sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of AIDS?)
                  >Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
                  >Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
                  >was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                  >Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                  >taught
                  >in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
                  >Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                  >maybe
                  >if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
                  >some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I suspect
                  >that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
                  >while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
                  >civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the only
                  >people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                  >southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the accountant
                  >you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
                  >
                  > >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                  >and
                  > >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                  > >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
                  > >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...
                  >
                  > >From: holland@...
                  >
                  > >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                  >lowest
                  > >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part
                  >of
                  > >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
                  > >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                  > >
                  > >-M
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Paul DEVER
                  Good point, too...however, I remember FSNs telling me about the local hospitals which would reuse needles for shots, and not all the time sterilize them. Also,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2002
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                    Good point, too...however, I remember FSNs telling me about the local
                    hospitals which would reuse needles for shots, and not all the time
                    sterilize them.

                    Also, I am not sure how many transfusions go on in Malawi or elsewhere, so
                    that is another source of AIDS...






                    ----Original Message Follows----
                    From: "Luz Huntington" <luzhunt@...>
                    Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                    To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
                    Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:08:41 +0000

                    Cathy and Scott make some good points. For me, after reading these emails,
                    the only thing I can think about is how I wish people in African nations,
                    the United States and all over would use condoms more. Its such a cheap way
                    to prevent AIDS and its aftermath.

                    Luz






                    >From: "Weber" <weber@...>
                    >Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
                    >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:30:23 -0800
                    >
                    >Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think in
                    >terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life expectancy
                    >ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more economically
                    >sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
                    AIDS?)
                    >Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear Peace
                    >Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the country
                    >was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                    >Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                    >taught
                    >in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But there
                    >Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                    >maybe
                    >if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available with
                    >some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
                    suspect
                    >that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live forever
                    >while the countries lose their teachers, their really good hard-working
                    >civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
                    only
                    >people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                    >southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
                    accountant
                    >you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
                    >
                    > >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                    >and
                    > >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                    > >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why the
                    > >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...
                    >
                    > >From: holland@...
                    >
                    > >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                    >lowest
                    > >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our part
                    >of
                    > >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi (39.3),
                    > >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                    > >
                    > >-M
                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Christine Chumbler
                    Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush s doubling the size of the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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                      Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC
                      is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush's doubling the
                      size of the agency hoohaw.

                      >>> weber@... 11/2/02 11:30 PM >>>
                      Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think
                      in
                      terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life
                      expectancy
                      ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more
                      economically
                      sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
                      AIDS?)
                      Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear
                      Peace
                      Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the
                      country
                      was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                      Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                      taught
                      in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But
                      there
                      Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                      maybe
                      if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available
                      with
                      some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
                      suspect
                      that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live
                      forever
                      while the countries lose their teachers, their really good
                      hard-working
                      civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
                      only
                      people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                      southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
                      accountant
                      you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




                      From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

                      >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                      and
                      >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                      >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why
                      the
                      >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

                      >From: holland@...

                      >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                      lowest
                      >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our
                      part of
                      >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi
                      (39.3),
                      >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                      >
                      >-M




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                    • Paul DEVER
                      Does that bode well or not: 1. It is an indicator of politics (which I thought PC was above...) 2. PC failed (by not putting systems in place to keep it
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 4, 2002
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                        Does that bode well or not:

                        1. It is an indicator of politics (which I thought PC was above...)

                        2. PC failed (by not putting systems in place to keep it running properly
                        after departure.)

                        3. PC left (along with other agencies a culture of dependence a la "Lords of
                        Poverty")

                        4. AIDS is taking over.

                        I like none of these selections...






                        ----Original Message Follows----
                        From: "Christine Chumbler" <cchumble@...>
                        Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
                        To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [ujeni] life expectancy
                        Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:32:37 -0500

                        Life expectancy in Botswana was pushing 70 years before AIDS. Also, PC
                        is planning to go back into that country as part of Bush's doubling the
                        size of the agency hoohaw.

                        >>> weber@... 11/2/02 11:30 PM >>>
                        Hey Paul you are not only a cynic but an accountant, hence you think
                        in
                        terms of money. The cause of the almost inconceivably low life
                        expectancy
                        ages of course is AIDS, and isn't Botswana one of the more
                        economically
                        sound countries on the continent? (or wasn't it until the scourge of
                        AIDS?)
                        Do we give it as much aid as other countries? In fact, did I hear
                        Peace
                        Corps maybe wasn't going to go or isn't there anymore because the
                        country
                        was doing so well? We met a Peace Corps worker from Botswana on Zomba
                        Plateau who said that they had more text books in the school where he
                        taught
                        in the Okovango Delta than he had had in his school in the U.S. But
                        there
                        Botswana is at the top , or should that be bottom, of Mark's list. So
                        maybe
                        if we made it so that more AIDS drugs could be affordably available
                        with
                        some of those dollars we spend, the life expectancy would go up. I
                        suspect
                        that corrupt politicians have access to drugs and they will live
                        forever
                        while the countries lose their teachers, their really good
                        hard-working
                        civil servants, their health care workers, and their businessmen...the
                        only
                        people who can help lift the cloud of doom that seems to hang over the
                        southern continent. I forgive you, Paul, for behaving like the
                        accountant
                        you are but not for being an inveterate cynic! Cathy




                        From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>

                        >The cynic in me cries for an accounting of all the dollars spent in US
                        and
                        >other foreign aid money to these countries, then compare it to other
                        >countries on the continent and see why the stark difference, and why
                        the
                        >continued dumping of money as well as tolerance of the disparity...

                        >From: holland@...

                        >an interesting factoid from The Economist: the 10 countries with the
                        lowest
                        >average life expectancies are all in africa and almost all in "our
                        part of
                        >africa": botswana (36.1 years) , mozambique, swaziland, malawi
                        (39.3),
                        >lesotho, sierra leone, burundi, rwanda, zambia, zimbabwe (42.9).
                        >
                        >-M




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