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Is it just me???

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  • Paul DEVER
    Is it just me, or is there a trend growing that puts us in the following situation: We realize that mistakes were made by having proxy wars fought on various
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 20, 2001
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      Is it just me, or is there a trend growing that puts us in the following
      situation:

      We realize that mistakes were made by having proxy wars fought on various
      fronts in the 60-80's with Russia, but we now see that by supporting people
      who were against "communism", or against our enemies, we were actually
      creating more support for those parties against us? As we kept many bad
      leaders (corrupt, oppressive, violent, etc.), their citizens were rising
      with anger agsint them.

      It would be nice if we could have a time-out inall these countries and those
      that are ready for democracy should be encourqged to vote. Those that are
      not, should be encouraged to slowly allow their citizens to gain a knowledge
      of democracy and it benefits as welll as its risks. This will allow them to
      decide for themselves to choose the government fo their choice: If it is an
      Islamist government (as in Algeria), so be it...if it is communist (as in
      Cuba), so be it...As far as we can prove, these countries are better off as
      they are now (Cuba), but not as well off since their government that was
      duly elected was not allowed to come to power (Algeria, Nigeria, etc.)

      If the citizens at least have a say, they might be less apt to focus on
      other problems...

      Or we could carve up all the countriews along ethnic lines where they want,
      and have each group fend for itself...This might work in Afghanistan, where
      there is no Majority that would be able to rule peacefully, but if ther wer
      many enclaves among the Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc., they might have peace in
      their own areas, and around them.

      _________________________________________________________________
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    • Stacia & Kristof Nordin
      Hi Paul I think I like what your getting at: Let each country decide what is best for their situation. But it is easier said than done when human rights
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 21, 2001
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        Hi Paul
         
        I think I like what your getting at:  Let each country decide what is best for their situation.  But it is easier said than done when human rights issues come into play.  I'm not sure where and how much we should get our noses into other people's business in any event.  It is a case by case basis I suppose.
         
        Stacia
        ***********************************************************
        Stacia Nordin, RD
        HIV/AIDS Crisis Corps Coordinator
        US Peace Corps Malawi, P.O. Box 208, Lilongwe, Malawi, Africa
        Work Phones:  (+265)  757-157 or 757-667
        Work Fax:        (+265)  751-008
        Cell Phone:       (+265) 960-613
        Home Phone:    (+265)  707-213
        Home E-mail:    nordin@...
         
        ************************************************************
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
        To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:55 AM
        Subject: [ujeni] Is it just me???

        Is it just me, or is there a trend growing that puts us in the following
        situation:

        We realize that mistakes were made by having proxy wars fought on various
        fronts in the 60-80's with Russia, but we now see that by supporting people
        who were against "communism", or against our enemies, we were actually
        creating more support for those parties against us?  As we kept many bad
        leaders (corrupt, oppressive, violent, etc.), their citizens were rising
        with anger agsint them.

        It would be nice if we could have a time-out inall these countries and those
        that are ready for democracy should be encourqged to vote.   Those that are
        not, should be encouraged to slowly allow their citizens to gain a knowledge
        of democracy and it benefits as welll as its risks.  This will allow them to
        decide for themselves to choose the government fo their choice:  If it is an
        Islamist government (as in Algeria), so be it...if it is communist (as in
        Cuba), so be it...As far as we can prove, these countries are better off as
        they are now (Cuba), but not as well off since their government  that was
        duly elected was not allowed to come to power (Algeria, Nigeria, etc.)

        If the citizens at least have a say, they might be less apt to focus on
        other problems...

        Or we could carve up all the countriews along ethnic lines where they want,
        and have each group fend for itself...This might work in Afghanistan, where
        there is no Majority that would be able to rule peacefully, but if ther wer
        many enclaves among the Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc., they might have peace in
        their own areas, and around them.

        _________________________________________________________________
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      • DEVIS Jonathan
        ... True, but when we attempt to bring human rights into the fray, we risk obliterating many cultures altogether, so it might be
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 21, 2001
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          --- Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...> a écrit :
          <HR>
          <html><body>
          <tt>
          True, but when we attempt to bring human rights into
          the fray, we risk <BR>
          obliterating many cultures altogether, so it might be
          better to let things <BR>
          be, and wrap a giant wall around us, and be
          self-sufficient...(:><BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
          ----Original Message Follows----<BR>
          From: "Stacia & Kristof Nordin"
          <nordin@...><BR>
          Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com<BR>
          To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com><BR>
          Subject: Re: [ujeni] Is it just me???<BR>
          Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:01:46 +0200<BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
          Hi Paul<BR>
          <BR>
          I think I like what your getting at:  Let each
          country decide what is best <BR>
          for their situation.  But it is easier said than
          done when human rights <BR>
          issues come into play.  I'm not sure where and
          how much we should get our <BR>
          noses into other people's business in any event. 
          It is a case by case basis <BR>
          I suppose.<BR>
          <BR>
          Stacia<BR>
          ***********************************************************<BR>
          Stacia Nordin, RD<BR>
          HIV/AIDS Crisis Corps Coordinator<BR>
          US Peace Corps Malawi, P.O. Box 208, Lilongwe, Malawi,
          Africa<BR>
          Work Phones:  (+265)  757-157 or 757-667<BR>
          Work Fax:       
          (+265)  751-008<BR>
          Cell Phone:       (+265)
          960-613<BR>
          Home Phone:    (+265)  707-213<BR>
          Home E-mail:    nordin@...<BR>
          <BR>
          ************************************************************<BR>
               -----Original
          Message-----<BR>
               From: Paul DEVER
          <pcpaul@...><BR>
               To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
          <ujeni@yahoogroups.com><BR>
               Date: Saturday, October 20,
          2001 3:55 AM<BR>
               Subject: [ujeni] Is it just
          me???<BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
               Is it just me, or is there a
          trend growing that puts us in the <BR>
          following<BR>
               situation:<BR>
          <BR>
               We realize that mistakes were
          made by having proxy wars fought on <BR>
          various<BR>
               fronts in the 60-80's with
          Russia, but we now see that by supporting <BR>
          people<BR>
               who were against
          "communism", or against our enemies, we were
          actually<BR>
               creating more support for
          those parties against us?  As we kept many <BR>
          bad<BR>
               leaders (corrupt, oppressive,
          violent, etc.), their citizens were <BR>
          rising<BR>
               with anger agsint them.<BR>
          <BR>
               It would be nice if we could
          have a time-out inall these countries and <BR>
          those<BR>
               that are ready for democracy
          should be encourqged to vote.   Those that
          <BR>
          are<BR>
               not, should be encouraged to
          slowly allow their citizens to gain a <BR>
          knowledge<BR>
               of democracy and it benefits
          as welll as its risks.  This will allow <BR>
          them to<BR>
               decide for themselves to
          choose the government fo their choice:  If it
          <BR>
          is an<BR>
               Islamist government (as in
          Algeria), so be it...if it is communist (as <BR>
          in<BR>
               Cuba), so be it...As far as
          we can prove, these countries are better <BR>
          off as<BR>
               they are now (Cuba), but not
          as well off since their government  that <BR>
          was<BR>
               duly elected was not allowed
          to come to power (Algeria, Nigeria, etc.)<BR>
          <BR>
               If the citizens at least have
          a say, they might be less apt to focus on<BR>
               other problems...<BR>
          <BR>
               Or we could carve up all the
          countriews along ethnic lines where they <BR>
          want,<BR>
               and have each group fend for
          itself...This might work in Afghanistan, <BR>
          where<BR>
               there is no Majority that
          would be able to rule peacefully, but if ther <BR>
          wer<BR>
               many enclaves among the
          Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc., they might have peace <BR>
          in<BR>
               their own areas, and around
          them.<BR>
          <BR>
              
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        • Paul DEVER
          True, but when we attempt to bring human rights into the fray, we risk obliterating many cultures altogether, so it might be better to let things be, and wrap
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 21, 2001
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            True, but when we attempt to bring human rights into the fray, we risk
            obliterating many cultures altogether, so it might be better to let things
            be, and wrap a giant wall around us, and be self-sufficient...(:>


            ----Original Message Follows----
            From: "Stacia & Kristof Nordin" <nordin@...>
            Reply-To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com
            To: <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [ujeni] Is it just me???
            Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:01:46 +0200


            Hi Paul

            I think I like what your getting at: Let each country decide what is best
            for their situation. But it is easier said than done when human rights
            issues come into play. I'm not sure where and how much we should get our
            noses into other people's business in any event. It is a case by case basis
            I suppose.

            Stacia
            ***********************************************************
            Stacia Nordin, RD
            HIV/AIDS Crisis Corps Coordinator
            US Peace Corps Malawi, P.O. Box 208, Lilongwe, Malawi, Africa
            Work Phones: (+265) 757-157 or 757-667
            Work Fax: (+265) 751-008
            Cell Phone: (+265) 960-613
            Home Phone: (+265) 707-213
            Home E-mail: nordin@...

            ************************************************************
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Paul DEVER <pcpaul@...>
            To: ujeni@yahoogroups.com <ujeni@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Saturday, October 20, 2001 3:55 AM
            Subject: [ujeni] Is it just me???


            Is it just me, or is there a trend growing that puts us in the
            following
            situation:

            We realize that mistakes were made by having proxy wars fought on
            various
            fronts in the 60-80's with Russia, but we now see that by supporting
            people
            who were against "communism", or against our enemies, we were actually
            creating more support for those parties against us? As we kept many
            bad
            leaders (corrupt, oppressive, violent, etc.), their citizens were
            rising
            with anger agsint them.

            It would be nice if we could have a time-out inall these countries and
            those
            that are ready for democracy should be encourqged to vote. Those that
            are
            not, should be encouraged to slowly allow their citizens to gain a
            knowledge
            of democracy and it benefits as welll as its risks. This will allow
            them to
            decide for themselves to choose the government fo their choice: If it
            is an
            Islamist government (as in Algeria), so be it...if it is communist (as
            in
            Cuba), so be it...As far as we can prove, these countries are better
            off as
            they are now (Cuba), but not as well off since their government that
            was
            duly elected was not allowed to come to power (Algeria, Nigeria, etc.)

            If the citizens at least have a say, they might be less apt to focus on
            other problems...

            Or we could carve up all the countriews along ethnic lines where they
            want,
            and have each group fend for itself...This might work in Afghanistan,
            where
            there is no Majority that would be able to rule peacefully, but if ther
            wer
            many enclaves among the Pashtuns, Tajiks, etc., they might have peace
            in
            their own areas, and around them.

            _________________________________________________________________
            Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
            http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp





            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




            _________________________________________________________________
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