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Re: Chemtrails and UFO's

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  • Philip J Crocker
    Hi all, I have just been reading John A Keels Disneyland of the Gods . In this Keel proposes the link between electromagnetic and gravitational anomolies on
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 2, 2001
      Hi all,
      I have just been reading John A Keels 'Disneyland of the Gods'. In this Keel proposes the link between electromagnetic and gravitational anomolies on the surface of the Earth, with all manner of phenomenon, such as UFO's, Lake Monsters/ Unusual animals, Poltergeists, Ghosts. etc and that these are often related to water. He also mentions the ancient tracks and paths which link ancient sites such as Stonehenge, Avebury, Callanish etc are also related to the electromagnetic phenomenon and that these are in turn related to the appearance of glowing lights and other phenomena which seem to follow or appear on these ancient paths with regularity.
      He then goes on to mention that in the 90's there was a series of NASA programs in which rockets carrying barium salts were launched high into the stratosphere to seed the chemical which spread out and followed the electromagnetic fields like iron filings. These could be used to measure the orientation and location of such fields.
      Now this is just a stab in the dark so to speak, but suppose the governments of the world wanted detailed knowledge of the positions and strengths of the electromagnetic fields in their respective countries to tell them where such anomolies exist, so that the phenomenon may be tracked, catalogued and perhapse influenced? How would you go about it? send teams of ground vehicles all over the country with sophisticated electronic devices and hope to explain these away when challenged? Or send tanker planes up and surruptitiosly spray with some chemical concoction from above, where no direct challenge can take place? I recall that an analysis of the chemical gave the properties as being highly reactive to electricity and of course electromagnetism.
      Just a thought, anyone care to comment?
      Take care
      Phil


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • TimeStar
      You might want to look into what kind of research has been done at Martha, Texas. The area is noted for the Martha Lights , and some friends showed me
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 2, 2001
        You might want to look into what kind of research has been done at Martha,
        Texas. The area is noted for the "Martha Lights", and some friends showed
        me newspaper newspaper article about research where the Army (?) dropped
        bags of something from airplanes to see where the bags would land.

        The friends who showed me the article had been driving through Texas when
        they suddenly realized that the road had changed and nothing looked the same
        as the road they had been driving on. They apparently drove for hours and
        finally ended up outside of Martha, Texas, where they learned that events
        like they experienced happen frequently in the area. The Martha, Texas
        locals told them that the Army had done some experiments of dropping bags
        from planes to see where they landed. The Martha area is noted for
        anomalous light phenomena.

        The people they talked to around Martha were proud of the anomalous lights
        that they considered a tourist attraction.

        Regards,

        Krsanna Duran



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Philip J Crocker" <PHILJCROCK@...>
        To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:03 PM
        Subject: [UFOnet] Re: Chemtrails and UFO's


        >
        > Hi all,
        > I have just been reading John A Keels 'Disneyland of the Gods'. In this
        Keel proposes the link between electromagnetic and gravitational anomolies
        on the surface of the Earth, with all manner of phenomenon, such as UFO's,
        Lake Monsters/ Unusual animals, Poltergeists, Ghosts. etc and that these are
        often related to water. He also mentions the ancient tracks and paths which
        link ancient sites such as Stonehenge, Avebury, Callanish etc are also
        related to the electromagnetic phenomenon and that these are in turn related
        to the appearance of glowing lights and other phenomena which seem to follow
        or appear on these ancient paths with regularity.
        > He then goes on to mention that in the 90's there was a series of NASA
        programs in which rockets carrying barium salts were launched high into the
        stratosphere to seed the chemical which spread out and followed the
        electromagnetic fields like iron filings. These could be used to measure the
        orientation and location of such fields.
        > Now this is just a stab in the dark so to speak, but suppose the
        governments of the world wanted detailed knowledge of the positions and
        strengths of the electromagnetic fields in their respective countries to
        tell them where such anomolies exist, so that the phenomenon may be tracked,
        catalogued and perhapse influenced? How would you go about it? send teams of
        ground vehicles all over the country with sophisticated electronic devices
        and hope to explain these away when challenged? Or send tanker planes up and
        surruptitiosly spray with some chemical concoction from above, where no
        direct challenge can take place? I recall that an analysis of the chemical
        gave the properties as being highly reactive to electricity and of course
        electromagnetism.
        > Just a thought, anyone care to comment?
        > Take care
        > Phil
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • philip crocker
        Hi Timestar, Thanks for you information, I shall look up the Martha Lights phenomenon. Do you know anything of the famous gravitational anomaly in the USA? I
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 3, 2001
          Hi Timestar,
          Thanks for you information, I shall look up the Martha
          Lights phenomenon. Do you know anything of the famous
          gravitational anomaly in the USA? I should like to dig
          out anything I can find on this.
          Keel proposes a theory which would agree with you in
          that the Earth is an electromagnetic cauldron that
          produces areas of variable physical reality.
          In these areas anything is possible if you know how to
          manipulate it, or that it will attract such elemental
          forces and powers that can use it for their own
          purposes, the catalyst seems to be animal biological
          energy, i.e., us.
          Regarding Nuclear Power Stations and Military sites on
          ancient sacred sites, you reminded me of Bruce
          Cathie's theories of the harmonic power grid which
          criss crosses the earth and that contrary to popular
          belief, Nuclear fission cannot take place at any point
          on the Earth's surface. This requires the presence of
          these strong electromagnetic phenomena, in particular
          those found at sacred sites. The Hiroshima and
          Nagasaki targets were chosen because they are on the
          grid, and that Tokyo is not. This would indicate that
          Nuclear war is a highly precise affair, not the 'bomb
          anywhere' threat we are lead to believe. If this is
          known to those who control such terrifying energies,
          it is not popular knowledge, and indicates that Roger
          is right and that there exists a science that is
          secret in both use and theory.
          If Cathie is right and UFO's are bound to follow these
          fields it indicates a weakness in their abilities, it
          would also explain why they are often seen to wobble
          as if in difficulty and occasionally lose it
          altogether and crash, something that has always
          puzzled me. Perhaps cruising the electromagnetic
          airways is not as easy after all?
          Thanks for the comments, it has opened other avenues
          of thought!
          Kindest Regards
          Phil



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: TimeStar
          To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 03 September 2001 07:12
          Subject: [UFOnet] Electromagnetic anomalies -
          Chemtrails and UFO's


          The electromagnetic anomalies associated with ancient
          sites was discussed at
          length in the 1950's by early contactees. George Hunt
          Williamson wrote
          about the lolcations of megalithic sites near
          earthquake fault lines where
          anomalies are noted in 1959 in his book, "Road In The
          Sky".

          The topic has been discussed for decades and the
          locations of nuclear sites
          and other research and military installations have
          strong relationships with
          electromagnetic anomalies. Many, many nuclear sites
          are located on ancient
          sacred sites with electromagnetic anomalies.

          Hanford Nuclear Reserve, for instance, is built a site
          owned by the Yakima
          Tribe and has a history of fireballs that goes back at
          least 150 years, when
          the early settlers arrived. Hanford is right next to
          the Columbia River.
          But Hanford is not the only nuclear site built on land
          anciently used by
          Native Americans, close to water, with electromagnetic
          anomalies.

          The selection of ancient sacred sites for nuclear
          installations goes back to
          the 1940's, with early UFO contactees discussing these
          features in the
          1950's. This knowledge has been openly discussed for
          decades.

          Regards,

          Krsanna

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        • Banshee
          Hi Krsanna, I hope everything is ok with you. I read the comment from Phil and it scares the hell out of me. You think this can be?? There s no such feeling
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 4, 2001
            Hi Krsanna,

            I hope everything is ok with you.
            I read the comment from Phil and it scares the hell out of me.
            You think this can be?? There's no such feeling but can it be??
            Will you explain this for me please, if you can and have the time for it.

            Friendly greetings, Banshee
          • TimeStar
            Hey, Banshee: I think Phil is on the right track. And it s not a minute too soon. The original purpose of HAARP was to image underground tunnels, and in1995
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 4, 2001
              Hey, Banshee: I think Phil is on the right track. And it's not a minute
              too soon. The original purpose of HAARP was to image underground tunnels,
              and in1995 they issued a press release stating that the first test in 1994
              had been successful in locating tunnels near El Paso, Texas. Now that the
              Hanford Nuclear Reservation has been officially closed, an underground
              facility at Hanford is being used for experiments on gravity.

              In order to capitalize on the planet's resources governments must control
              the land of the planet and needs a labor force to do the work for them.
              That was the original objective of the Nefilim in the Middle East and
              remains their objective to this day. The smartest way to do this is to
              convince the slaves that the Nefilim's goals are the slaves' goals. Then
              the slave joins in the task masters' objectives willingly.

              The Nefilim came to this planet looking for gold and bioengineered slave
              labor for their needs. The descendents of the same Nefilim stated their
              objective was gold and slaves when the Vatican and Spain funded Christopher
              Columbus' voyage to the New World. Columbus could not get funding for his
              venture for years until assuring the "governments" that he could find gold
              and slaves.

              I just want to get the right hats on the right heads, find out who's who in
              this zoo. That's why I keep telling these guys to not project their
              problems on people who have never indulged in their goals, for example,
              indigenous people who had lots of gold they used for decoration and ritual
              and had no interest in possessing the land.

              This society is rapidly heading into crisis, and we need to sort out who has
              created the problems of a rapidly collapsing biosphere for the sake of
              posterity. Once the collapse is complete -- and there is a
              point-of-no-return for biological systems -- we want to identify what
              created the collapse and move forward with a better understanding.

              Regards,

              Krsanna

              Phil wrote:

              Now this is just a stab in the dark so to speak, but suppose the governments
              of the world wanted detailed knowledge of the positions and strengths of the
              electromagnetic fields in their respective countries to tell them where such
              anomolies exist, so that the phenomenon may be tracked, catalogued and
              perhapse influenced? How would you go about it? send teams of ground
              vehicles all over the country with sophisticated electronic devices and hope
              to explain these away when challenged? Or send tanker planes up and
              surruptitiosly spray with some chemical concoction from above, where no
              direct challenge can take place? I recall that an analysis of the chemical
              gave the properties as being highly reactive to electricity and of course
              electromagnetism.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Banshee" <k.schans@...>
              To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 1:45 AM
              Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


              > Hi Krsanna,
              >
              > I hope everything is ok with you.
              > I read the comment from Phil and it scares the hell out of me.
              > You think this can be?? There's no such feeling but can it be??
              > Will you explain this for me please, if you can and have the time for it.
              >
              > Friendly greetings, Banshee
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
              to:
              > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
              > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
              > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
              > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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              > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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              > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
              >
              > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
              brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
              aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Roger Anderton
              Phil That would tie into one of the things they could be doing with HAARP. What do you think about Keel s conclusion that we are playthings duped into
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 4, 2001
                Phil

                That would tie into one of the things they could be doing with HAARP.

                What do you think about Keel's conclusion that we are playthings duped into
                believing lies etc.?

                Roger
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Philip J Crocker" <PHILJCROCK@...>
                To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:03 PM
                Subject: [UFOnet] Re: Chemtrails and UFO's


                >
                > Hi all,
                > I have just been reading John A Keels 'Disneyland of the Gods'. In this
                Keel proposes the link between electromagnetic and gravitational anomolies
                on the surface of the Earth, with all manner of phenomenon, such as UFO's,
                Lake Monsters/ Unusual animals, Poltergeists, Ghosts. etc and that these are
                often related to water. He also mentions the ancient tracks and paths which
                link ancient sites such as Stonehenge, Avebury, Callanish etc are also
                related to the electromagnetic phenomenon and that these are in turn related
                to the appearance of glowing lights and other phenomena which seem to follow
                or appear on these ancient paths with regularity.
                > He then goes on to mention that in the 90's there was a series of NASA
                programs in which rockets carrying barium salts were launched high into the
                stratosphere to seed the chemical which spread out and followed the
                electromagnetic fields like iron filings. These could be used to measure the
                orientation and location of such fields.
                > Now this is just a stab in the dark so to speak, but suppose the
                governments of the world wanted detailed knowledge of the positions and
                strengths of the electromagnetic fields in their respective countries to
                tell them where such anomolies exist, so that the phenomenon may be tracked,
                catalogued and perhapse influenced? How would you go about it? send teams of
                ground vehicles all over the country with sophisticated electronic devices
                and hope to explain these away when challenged? Or send tanker planes up and
                surruptitiosly spray with some chemical concoction from above, where no
                direct challenge can take place? I recall that an analysis of the chemical
                gave the properties as being highly reactive to electricity and of course
                electromagnetism.
                > Just a thought, anyone care to comment?
                > Take care
                > Phil
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
                to:
                > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                >
                > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • philip crocker
                Hi Roger, How are you these days? Timestar (thanks Timestar) has sent lots of info on HAARP, I have only just realised how important this is, the manipulation
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 4, 2001
                  Hi Roger,
                  How are you these days?
                  Timestar (thanks Timestar) has sent lots of info on
                  HAARP, I have only just realised how important this
                  is, the manipulation of our electromagnetic
                  environment must give unbelievable power to the
                  wielder. HAARP 'feels' bad, it does not seem to be
                  benevolent in its operation and effects, I suspect it
                  is a flexing of hidden muscle to be used when it
                  becomes necessary.
                  Bruce Cathie sells a program (Gridworks) that can
                  place this grid from any point on a map, this would
                  indicate the locations of power stations and other
                  centres of influence on the grid, it would seem the
                  governments of the world have commandeered most of
                  these sights since the 1940's. The knowledge is at
                  least that old. Stonehenge was commandeered by the
                  American Airforce at this time.
                  Yes, I am afraid I have come to the conclusion that as
                  Keel says we are manipulated in so many ways we are
                  not even aware of most of them.
                  The degree of control is frightening, and so old, we
                  no longer see it, our very belief systems are
                  contaminated with the superiority of the 'godlike'
                  powers of the ET's or Fairies, or Gods or Demons or
                  whatever. It is hidden physics and deeply implanted
                  control systems that gives them the edge. How do we
                  stop being used? How do you challenge the Gods?
                  This is the slave/owner mentality taken to extreme
                  degree. The owner must impress on the slave that the
                  owner is superior, even if it is not. This is done
                  from birth and through ancient manipulation of the
                  slave culture.
                  I suspect there are many control systems in operation,
                  many others dormant, the inevitable conclusion is that
                  we are important enough to expend this effort on. It
                  is the human factor which seems to power the
                  phenomenon, do we have abilities that we are not aware
                  of? is that what is being kept from us?
                  However, in our demise may also reside our opportunity
                  to seek a way out of the mire. That is that as
                  Timestar says, it is knowledge of the reality of our
                  environment that gives the edge to the controllers
                  (Timestar names them Nefilim, Keel calls them the
                  Ultraterrestrials). I suspect that humans have been
                  excluded for so long from the simple knowledge that
                  its electromagnetism which drives the universe, that
                  we are impotent without knowing it. How can you fight
                  apparent magic? Perhaps by realising that it is not
                  magic. This must have been where the governments of
                  the world were 60 years ago. How far have they
                  progressed since? How much do they realise the truth
                  about the Ultraterrestrials/Nefilim? HAARP does not
                  seem to be a weapon to protect the human race, only
                  freedom of access to this knowledge would do that,
                  maybe I am wrong (I hope I am)

                  Take Care
                  Phil


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Roger Anderton
                  To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 04 September 2001 16:12
                  Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Re: Chemtrails and UFO's


                  Phil

                  That would tie into one of the things they could be
                  doing with HAARP.

                  What do you think about Keel's conclusion that we are
                  playthings duped into
                  believing lies etc.?

                  Roger

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                • TimeStar
                  Phil wrote: It is the human factor which seems to power the phenomenon, do we have abilities that we are not aware of? is that what is being kept from us?
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 4, 2001
                    Phil wrote:

                    It is the human factor which seems to power the phenomenon, do we have
                    abilities that we are not aware of? is that what is being kept from us?
                    However, in our demise may also reside our opportunity to seek a way out of
                    the mire. That is that as Timestar says, it is knowledge of the reality of
                    our environment that gives the edge to the controllers
                    (Timestar names them Nefilim, Keel calls them the Ultraterrestrials). I
                    suspect that humans have been excluded for so long from the simple knowledge
                    that its electromagnetism which drives the universe, that we are impotent
                    without knowing it. How can you fight apparent magic? Perhaps by realising
                    that it is not magic.

                    Krsanna wrote:

                    Exactly!


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "philip crocker" <freemagonia@...>
                    To: "ufonet" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 3:05 PM
                    Subject: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


                    > Hi Roger,
                    > How are you these days?
                    > Timestar (thanks Timestar) has sent lots of info on
                    > HAARP, I have only just realised how important this
                    > is, the manipulation of our electromagnetic
                    > environment must give unbelievable power to the
                    > wielder. HAARP 'feels' bad, it does not seem to be
                    > benevolent in its operation and effects, I suspect it
                    > is a flexing of hidden muscle to be used when it
                    > becomes necessary.
                    > Bruce Cathie sells a program (Gridworks) that can
                    > place this grid from any point on a map, this would
                    > indicate the locations of power stations and other
                    > centres of influence on the grid, it would seem the
                    > governments of the world have commandeered most of
                    > these sights since the 1940's. The knowledge is at
                    > least that old. Stonehenge was commandeered by the
                    > American Airforce at this time.
                    > Yes, I am afraid I have come to the conclusion that as
                    > Keel says we are manipulated in so many ways we are
                    > not even aware of most of them.
                    > The degree of control is frightening, and so old, we
                    > no longer see it, our very belief systems are
                    > contaminated with the superiority of the 'godlike'
                    > powers of the ET's or Fairies, or Gods or Demons or
                    > whatever. It is hidden physics and deeply implanted
                    > control systems that gives them the edge. How do we
                    > stop being used? How do you challenge the Gods?
                    > This is the slave/owner mentality taken to extreme
                    > degree. The owner must impress on the slave that the
                    > owner is superior, even if it is not. This is done
                    > from birth and through ancient manipulation of the
                    > slave culture.
                    > I suspect there are many control systems in operation,
                    > many others dormant, the inevitable conclusion is that
                    > we are important enough to expend this effort on. It
                    > is the human factor which seems to power the
                    > phenomenon, do we have abilities that we are not aware
                    > of? is that what is being kept from us?
                    > However, in our demise may also reside our opportunity
                    > to seek a way out of the mire. That is that as
                    > Timestar says, it is knowledge of the reality of our
                    > environment that gives the edge to the controllers
                    > (Timestar names them Nefilim, Keel calls them the
                    > Ultraterrestrials). I suspect that humans have been
                    > excluded for so long from the simple knowledge that
                    > its electromagnetism which drives the universe, that
                    > we are impotent without knowing it. How can you fight
                    > apparent magic? Perhaps by realising that it is not
                    > magic. This must have been where the governments of
                    > the world were 60 years ago. How far have they
                    > progressed since? How much do they realise the truth
                    > about the Ultraterrestrials/Nefilim? HAARP does not
                    > seem to be a weapon to protect the human race, only
                    > freedom of access to this knowledge would do that,
                    > maybe I am wrong (I hope I am)
                    >
                    > Take Care
                    > Phil
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Roger Anderton
                    > To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: 04 September 2001 16:12
                    > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Re: Chemtrails and UFO's
                    >
                    >
                    > Phil
                    >
                    > That would tie into one of the things they could be
                    > doing with HAARP.
                    >
                    > What do you think about Keel's conclusion that we are
                    > playthings duped into
                    > believing lies etc.?
                    >
                    > Roger
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo!
                    Messenger
                    > http://im.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
                    to:
                    > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                    > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                    > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                    > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                    > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                    > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                    >
                    > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                    brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                    aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Roger Anderton
                    Hi Phil I reach similar conclusions, from digging into our History. It looks worse the more one looks into History. It seems that most Conspiracies are linked:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 6, 2001
                      Hi Phil

                      I reach similar conclusions, from digging into our History.

                      It looks worse the more one looks into History. It seems that most
                      Conspiracies are linked: Witch-hunts, burning of Heretics, debunking etc.,
                      have been going on for a long time against individual people. Religious
                      groups organise themselves and decide what ideas they do not like, and then
                      set about persecuting the disapproved individual: a case of many people
                      versus one person - an uneven fight. All these little Conspiracies are all
                      parts of the same overall structure of the true events around us being
                      covered up.

                      A large number of People want to believe in a certain set of ideas usually
                      defined by the Judeo - Christian tradition and have taken steps to try to
                      maintain that Dogma. On occasions 'they' have failed, but it still results
                      in the Corruption of Science, preventing it from being what it really should
                      be.

                      Keel's theory next step seems to be David Icke's theory. Icke's various
                      Reptilians seem to be the Ultra terrestrials once again. But Icke does not
                      have everything right. He only has the general outline of how the things
                      seem to fit together so far.

                      At the stage we are at this moment, we have been denied the proper
                      Scientific theory and proper Scientific method in order to investigate the
                      evidence and determine what is being hoaxed and what is genuine. So, even
                      saying that the 'Ultra terrestrials exist' is without sufficient proof (in
                      the versions of UT so far conceived), though seems one of the best working
                      hypotheses.

                      Proper science works from 'not knowing' and we should not let our
                      imaginations run away with us too much, else we imagine frightening
                      scenarios that do not really exist.

                      On the surface level of Society things seem to be all right, with just a few
                      little bad things starting to happen more often. There seems lots of people
                      trying to get things back on the right track, but are all fighting among
                      themselves. No point worrying, may be one of them will get things back on
                      track. A person can only do their bit, then leave it to the rest to muddle
                      through.





                      Cheers Roger

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "philip crocker" <freemagonia@...>
                      To: "ufonet" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 10:05 PM
                      Subject: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


                      > Hi Roger,
                      > How are you these days?
                      > Timestar (thanks Timestar) has sent lots of info on
                      > HAARP, I have only just realised how important this
                      > is, the manipulation of our electromagnetic
                      > environment must give unbelievable power to the
                      > wielder. HAARP 'feels' bad, it does not seem to be
                      > benevolent in its operation and effects, I suspect it
                      > is a flexing of hidden muscle to be used when it
                      > becomes necessary.
                      > Bruce Cathie sells a program (Gridworks) that can
                      > place this grid from any point on a map, this would
                      > indicate the locations of power stations and other
                      > centres of influence on the grid, it would seem the
                      > governments of the world have commandeered most of
                      > these sights since the 1940's. The knowledge is at
                      > least that old. Stonehenge was commandeered by the
                      > American Airforce at this time.
                      > Yes, I am afraid I have come to the conclusion that as
                      > Keel says we are manipulated in so many ways we are
                      > not even aware of most of them.
                      > The degree of control is frightening, and so old, we
                      > no longer see it, our very belief systems are
                      > contaminated with the superiority of the 'godlike'
                      > powers of the ET's or Fairies, or Gods or Demons or
                      > whatever. It is hidden physics and deeply implanted
                      > control systems that gives them the edge. How do we
                      > stop being used? How do you challenge the Gods?
                      > This is the slave/owner mentality taken to extreme
                      > degree. The owner must impress on the slave that the
                      > owner is superior, even if it is not. This is done
                      > from birth and through ancient manipulation of the
                      > slave culture.
                      > I suspect there are many control systems in operation,
                      > many others dormant, the inevitable conclusion is that
                      > we are important enough to expend this effort on. It
                      > is the human factor which seems to power the
                      > phenomenon, do we have abilities that we are not aware
                      > of? is that what is being kept from us?
                      > However, in our demise may also reside our opportunity
                      > to seek a way out of the mire. That is that as
                      > Timestar says, it is knowledge of the reality of our
                      > environment that gives the edge to the controllers
                      > (Timestar names them Nefilim, Keel calls them the
                      > Ultraterrestrials). I suspect that humans have been
                      > excluded for so long from the simple knowledge that
                      > its electromagnetism which drives the universe, that
                      > we are impotent without knowing it. How can you fight
                      > apparent magic? Perhaps by realising that it is not
                      > magic. This must have been where the governments of
                      > the world were 60 years ago. How far have they
                      > progressed since? How much do they realise the truth
                      > about the Ultraterrestrials/Nefilim? HAARP does not
                      > seem to be a weapon to protect the human race, only
                      > freedom of access to this knowledge would do that,
                      > maybe I am wrong (I hope I am)
                      >
                      > Take Care
                      > Phil
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Roger Anderton
                      > To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: 04 September 2001 16:12
                      > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Re: Chemtrails and UFO's
                      >
                      >
                      > Phil
                      >
                      > That would tie into one of the things they could be
                      > doing with HAARP.
                      >
                      > What do you think about Keel's conclusion that we are
                      > playthings duped into
                      > believing lies etc.?
                      >
                      > Roger
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      >
                    • Bjg228@cs.com
                      Rodger I never heard it put so truthfuly...Thanks.. BobbyJoe
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                        Rodger

                        I never heard it put so truthfuly...Thanks..

                        BobbyJoe
                      • WaveMaster516@aol.com
                        Whats a chemtrail?
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                          Whats a chemtrail?
                        • MoNiSpY@aol.com
                          To the question What is a chemtrail please visit the below site: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ __________________________________________________
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                            To the question "What is a chemtrail" please visit the below site:

                            http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/


                            __________________________________________________
                            Disclosure Project Media Petition:
                            http://gopetition.com/info.php?petid=390
                            ___________________________________________________
                            The Spirit's Light - meditation, steps towards
                            inner peace, Bible prophesy, and a personal journal:
                            http://thespiritslight.tripod.com
                            ____________________________________________________
                            Interested in Space, Aliens, UFOs, etc? Visit:
                            Links To Space:
                            http://members.tripod.com/links_to_space/index.htm
                            ____________________________________________________



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Joe McGonagle
                            ... Also, check out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/files/Chemtrails/contrail.pdf (Acrobat file) Joe
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                              --- In ufonet@y..., WaveMaster516@a... wrote:
                              > Whats a chemtrail?

                              Also, check out:

                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/files/Chemtrails/contrail.pdf

                              (Acrobat file)

                              Joe
                            • Bjg228@cs.com
                              Hi I have had many Alien craft singtings in my life, including a craft landed and the Alien s got out and hung around for a while....Scard the crap out of
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                                Hi

                                I have had many Alien craft singtings in my life, including a craft landed
                                and the Alien's got out and hung around for a while....Scard the crap out of
                                me....But it was a truly great experince afterwards....These people are
                                dangers to say the least....You ought to see what they did to a cow across
                                the street........

                                BobbyJoe
                              • Robert R Colee
                                me too! http://angelfire.com/electronic/planetarycom/xfile3.html http://99449774.home.icq.com Robert How did over a million people get free money grants last
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 7, 2001
                                  me too!
                                  http://angelfire.com/electronic/planetarycom/xfile3.html

                                  http://99449774.home.icq.com

                                  Robert

                                  "How did over a million people get free money grants last year
                                  for their businesses?" Click on the link below to find out how
                                  you, too, can be the recipient of free money.
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                                • Banshee
                                  Bobby Joe, You have seen a lot of crafts. You have seen aliens come out of the craft. So why do you say: This PEOPLE are danger??? And what did they do to that
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 8, 2001
                                    Bobby Joe,

                                    You have seen a lot of crafts. You have seen aliens come out of the craft.
                                    So why do you say: This PEOPLE are danger???
                                    And what did they do to that cow on the other side of the street?? These
                                    dangerous 'people'.........

                                    Friendly greetings, Banshee
                                  • philip crocker
                                    Hello Roger, Yes, I agree with you Roger, at first my worst nightmare was that Keels Ultraterrestrials leads uncomfortably to Ikes Reptilians, and quite
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 8, 2001
                                      Hello Roger,
                                      Yes, I agree with you Roger, at first my worst
                                      nightmare was that Keels Ultraterrestrials leads
                                      uncomfortably to Ikes Reptilians, and quite frankly I
                                      do not want to go there. Anyway Ike 'feels' wrong, I'm
                                      not sure how much value there is in a feeling, but I
                                      think it is that part of my mind says it does not add
                                      up that way. Keel says that the driving force is
                                      probably electromagnetic itself in 'form', sorry,
                                      electromagnetism has no form, but I run out of terms
                                      to express myself. The implication is that it is
                                      highly different than what we would term as a 'being'
                                      i.e., not reptilian or anything else, but can briefly
                                      become what ever it needs to be, or more correctly,
                                      what our minds reflect.
                                      Also it may not be mentally similar to us, and this is
                                      where David Ike falls down, he sees everything in
                                      'human' terms, of greed, power, possession and so on.
                                      Keels observations seem to indicate that the positive
                                      or negative impression gained by the victim of these
                                      encounters is a subjective one, and the image that is
                                      reflected is a result of our own mentality. Maybe the
                                      Ultraterrestrials are projections into our reality on
                                      our terms (the Solaris effect) the 'control' we
                                      experience may be more of an effort to disguise the
                                      truth of the proximity and perhaps the vulnerability
                                      of the forms. I have often wondered why the phenomenon
                                      continually projects the impression that it is outside
                                      our space/reality/time. What if this is the main point
                                      is to divert our attention away from the obvious? and
                                      that in reality it is not separate but right amongst
                                      us? The continual plea is that we are endangering our
                                      planet, I agree, but we are also damaging the
                                      environment for anything else that lives here.
                                      I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt here, because I
                                      can see that anything with our worst interests at
                                      heart could do us much more damage than is evident, or
                                      maybe its just good husbandry? Keel says that the
                                      spiritualism and channelling are the same phenomenon
                                      from a different angle, as are poltergeists, ghosts,
                                      miracles, visions and religious visitations, and that
                                      the individuals concerned are highly personally
                                      targeted. This would indicate a close link with our
                                      subconscious and deep inner selves.
                                      The utraterrestrials or Nefilim may be real, but they
                                      may be also be projected forms acting out a game that
                                      is older thann the present one. That is the ET origin
                                      of the Nefilim may be no more than the same claim made
                                      by the recent phenomenon.
                                      Have you read any of Colin Wilson's theories about the
                                      'ladder of the mind'? that we are the receptacle of
                                      many higher (and lower) forms of mentality and that we
                                      move up and down the rungs occasionally, but are
                                      mostly stuck where we are. The supposed purpose is to
                                      reach a 'gestalt' of all these forms, a sort of god
                                      like whole?
                                      Of course none of this explains the 'wheezing olive
                                      skinned men in black' and their apparently unhealthy
                                      life style! Nore does it explain crashed UFO's and
                                      bodies. Maybe we are not the only ones being
                                      controlled!
                                      I remember an old science fiction story, by Damon
                                      Knight, I think, about mental parasites that hide in
                                      the mind and feed off our mental energy, only a
                                      purging of the mind sets people free whereupon the
                                      free ones discover they have enormous mental powers
                                      and abilities, all kept repressed by the ousted
                                      resident parasites.

                                      I don't know Roger, I'm still trying to digest it all,
                                      sometimes it gets a bit too big for me and my mind
                                      rebels and goes off for a mental cuppa, which reminds
                                      me I'm about due for one, a real one that is!

                                      Take Care Roger,
                                      Phil

                                      ____________________________________________________________
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                                    • TimeStar
                                      Phil wrote: Maybe the Ultraterrestrials are projections into our reality on our terms (the Solaris effect) the control we experience may be more of an effort
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 8, 2001
                                        Phil wrote:

                                        Maybe the Ultraterrestrials are projections into our reality on our terms
                                        (the Solaris effect) the 'control' we experience may be more of an effort to
                                        disguise the truth of the proximity and perhaps the vulnerability of the
                                        forms. I have often wondered why the phenomenon continually projects the
                                        impression that it is outside our space/reality/time. What if this is the
                                        main point is to divert our attention away from the obvious?

                                        Krsanna wrote:

                                        The Toltec sorcerer don Juan Matus discussed entities of this nature at
                                        length with Carlos Castenada. A part of don Juan's teachings was about how these entities control humankind who remain ignorant of them. Don Juan taught Castenada how to look into "worlds" associated with this planet where these entities reside, how to communicate with their worlds, and how to gain mastery over the modes in which these entities function.

                                        Phil comments wondering "why the phenomenon continually projects the
                                        impression that it is outside our space/reality/time" allude to ancient
                                        knowledge in Native America. Some of this knowledge is recapitulated in
                                        Castenada's book, "The Active Side of Infinity". Don Juan's purpose with
                                        Castenda was to apprentice "a man of knowledge", who understood his own
                                        existence.

                                        The fact that David Icke is British exposing the affiliations of monarchs
                                        and other rulers that Roger finds so pertinent is representative of the
                                        knowledge available in different parts of the world. Specifically,
                                        knowledge within the domain of the Nefilim in the Middle East is focused
                                        entirely differently than the knowledge in the Americas where the "Nefilim" who produced the Judao-Christian tradition were NOT active.

                                        It will be interesting to see how many of the Nefilim's descendents in the
                                        domains they claimed in the Middle and Near East and Africa are still
                                        capable of higher human functions in another 50 years. I'm betting that
                                        there will be a startling resurgence of the more ancient roots in 50 years.
                                        The very ancient traditions of India may flourish with new life when
                                        the earth cleansing is complete that we cannot anticipate with the dominant
                                        paradigm at this time.

                                        The ancient roots of knowledge in the world deal with "phenomenon that
                                        continually projects the impression that it is outside our space/reality/time" in a very different way than the Nefilim's philosophical heirs do. The ancient traditions stand a much better chance of survival in the currently changing environmental conditions.

                                        David Icke and Roger's problems are not representative to the entire globe
                                        but of their specific situations.



                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "philip crocker" <freemagonia@...>
                                        To: "ufonet" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 3:11 AM
                                        Subject: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


                                        > Hello Roger,
                                        > Yes, I agree with you Roger, at first my worst
                                        > nightmare was that Keels Ultraterrestrials leads
                                        > uncomfortably to Ikes Reptilians, and quite frankly I
                                        > do not want to go there. Anyway Ike 'feels' wrong, I'm
                                        > not sure how much value there is in a feeling, but I
                                        > think it is that part of my mind says it does not add
                                        > up that way. Keel says that the driving force is
                                        > probably electromagnetic itself in 'form', sorry,
                                        > electromagnetism has no form, but I run out of terms
                                        > to express myself. The implication is that it is
                                        > highly different than what we would term as a 'being'
                                        > i.e., not reptilian or anything else, but can briefly
                                        > become what ever it needs to be, or more correctly,
                                        > what our minds reflect.
                                        > Also it may not be mentally similar to us, and this is
                                        > where David Ike falls down, he sees everything in
                                        > 'human' terms, of greed, power, possession and so on.
                                        > Keels observations seem to indicate that the positive
                                        > or negative impression gained by the victim of these
                                        > encounters is a subjective one, and the image that is
                                        > reflected is a result of our own mentality. Maybe the
                                        > Ultraterrestrials are projections into our reality on
                                        > our terms (the Solaris effect) the 'control' we
                                        > experience may be more of an effort to disguise the
                                        > truth of the proximity and perhaps the vulnerability
                                        > of the forms. I have often wondered why the phenomenon
                                        > continually projects the impression that it is outside
                                        > our space/reality/time. What if this is the main point
                                        > is to divert our attention away from the obvious? and
                                        > that in reality it is not separate but right amongst
                                        > us? The continual plea is that we are endangering our
                                        > planet, I agree, but we are also damaging the
                                        > environment for anything else that lives here.
                                        > I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt here, because I
                                        > can see that anything with our worst interests at
                                        > heart could do us much more damage than is evident, or
                                        > maybe its just good husbandry? Keel says that the
                                        > spiritualism and channelling are the same phenomenon
                                        > from a different angle, as are poltergeists, ghosts,
                                        > miracles, visions and religious visitations, and that
                                        > the individuals concerned are highly personally
                                        > targeted. This would indicate a close link with our
                                        > subconscious and deep inner selves.
                                        > The utraterrestrials or Nefilim may be real, but they
                                        > may be also be projected forms acting out a game that
                                        > is older thann the present one. That is the ET origin
                                        > of the Nefilim may be no more than the same claim made
                                        > by the recent phenomenon.
                                        > Have you read any of Colin Wilson's theories about the
                                        > 'ladder of the mind'? that we are the receptacle of
                                        > many higher (and lower) forms of mentality and that we
                                        > move up and down the rungs occasionally, but are
                                        > mostly stuck where we are. The supposed purpose is to
                                        > reach a 'gestalt' of all these forms, a sort of god
                                        > like whole?
                                        > Of course none of this explains the 'wheezing olive
                                        > skinned men in black' and their apparently unhealthy
                                        > life style! Nore does it explain crashed UFO's and
                                        > bodies. Maybe we are not the only ones being
                                        > controlled!
                                        > I remember an old science fiction story, by Damon
                                        > Knight, I think, about mental parasites that hide in
                                        > the mind and feed off our mental energy, only a
                                        > purging of the mind sets people free whereupon the
                                        > free ones discover they have enormous mental powers
                                        > and abilities, all kept repressed by the ousted
                                        > resident parasites.
                                        >
                                        > I don't know Roger, I'm still trying to digest it all,
                                        > sometimes it gets a bit too big for me and my mind
                                        > rebels and goes off for a mental cuppa, which reminds
                                        > me I'm about due for one, a real one that is!
                                        >
                                        > Take Care Roger,
                                        > Phil
                                        >
                                        > ____________________________________________________________
                                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
                                        > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        to:
                                        > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                                        > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                                        > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                                        > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
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                                        > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                                        > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                                        >
                                        > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                                        brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                                        aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Bjg228@cs.com
                                        Banshee The Alien craft story, it go s somehting like this....I was hunting coyotes one night in n. calif. and a hugh dome shape craft floated afew hundred
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 8, 2001
                                          Banshee

                                          The Alien craft story, it go's somehting like this....I was hunting coyotes
                                          one night in n. calif. and a hugh dome shape craft floated afew hundred feet
                                          over our heads cruzed by and landed in the middle of a pound.....We could not
                                          see the craft from the trees..

                                          The craft glowed floricent blue it had a smaller dom on top that glowed
                                          floricent white...We headed back to my house on foot on the way down the
                                          mountian this 6 or 7 ft by 2 ft in diametor silver metielic thing floated 6
                                          ft off the ground and followed us almost to my house.....

                                          The craft came back the next night except it was breaking the top off the
                                          junaper trees and breaking hugh 5 ton boulders into thumb nail
                                          gravel.....They rip some tin off the hey barn slaughter without spilling a
                                          drop of blood......They put the cow in a field of alfalfa which is dangers
                                          for live cattle..

                                          There was a sound coming from the pound that sounded like this>>Bon won won
                                          won won and slowly taperd off...Strange as it may sound its true...I heard
                                          the sound days later in the middle of the day and I think it was coming from
                                          under ground..I movied to Idaho the next day..The place it happen at was
                                          called the devil's garden by the local Indians.....


                                          I am with out a dought the most addicted rock hound I know....I have rock
                                          hound the west coast and from Mexico to Panama and every country in
                                          between....Been doing it for almost 40 years.....I spend a lot of my life out
                                          side looking down or looking up....

                                          Right now im researching the black rock desert N. Nev. looking for a very
                                          special agate's and fire opal mines...Im coming up with stuff I have never
                                          seen in my life....I also own the Junnila Benitoite mine the rarest blue
                                          crystals in the world......

                                          The Benitoite crystals one day will help the Planet....They come from very
                                          deep in the earth.....I also have a vortex on the Benitoite mine because many
                                          of the trees are destoted or kind of strange.....Its like the Moon with pine
                                          trees....

                                          The reason I say these Alien's are dangers is what they did to my mother's
                                          family....I was in Roswell the summer of 47....

                                          BobbyJoe
                                        • TimeStar
                                          What did the aliens do to your mother s family? Krsanna ... From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 4:52 PM
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Sep 8, 2001
                                            What did the aliens do to your mother's family?

                                            Krsanna

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: <Bjg228@...>
                                            To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 4:52 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


                                            > Banshee
                                            >
                                            > The Alien craft story, it go's somehting like this....I was hunting
                                            coyotes
                                            > one night in n. calif. and a hugh dome shape craft floated afew hundred
                                            feet
                                            > over our heads cruzed by and landed in the middle of a pound.....We could
                                            not
                                            > see the craft from the trees..
                                            >
                                            > The craft glowed floricent blue it had a smaller dom on top that glowed
                                            > floricent white...We headed back to my house on foot on the way down the
                                            > mountian this 6 or 7 ft by 2 ft in diametor silver metielic thing floated
                                            6
                                            > ft off the ground and followed us almost to my house.....
                                            >
                                            > The craft came back the next night except it was breaking the top off the
                                            > junaper trees and breaking hugh 5 ton boulders into thumb nail
                                            > gravel.....They rip some tin off the hey barn slaughter without spilling a
                                            > drop of blood......They put the cow in a field of alfalfa which is dangers
                                            > for live cattle..
                                            >
                                            > There was a sound coming from the pound that sounded like this>>Bon won
                                            won
                                            > won won and slowly taperd off...Strange as it may sound its true...I heard
                                            > the sound days later in the middle of the day and I think it was coming
                                            from
                                            > under ground..I movied to Idaho the next day..The place it happen at was
                                            > called the devil's garden by the local Indians.....
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I am with out a dought the most addicted rock hound I know....I have rock
                                            > hound the west coast and from Mexico to Panama and every country in
                                            > between....Been doing it for almost 40 years.....I spend a lot of my life
                                            out
                                            > side looking down or looking up....
                                            >
                                            > Right now im researching the black rock desert N. Nev. looking for a very
                                            > special agate's and fire opal mines...Im coming up with stuff I have never
                                            > seen in my life....I also own the Junnila Benitoite mine the rarest blue

                                            > crystals in the world......
                                            >
                                            > The Benitoite crystals one day will help the Planet....They come from very
                                            > deep in the earth.....I also have a vortex on the Benitoite mine because
                                            many
                                            > of the trees are destoted or kind of strange.....Its like the Moon with
                                            pine
                                            > trees....
                                            >
                                            > The reason I say these Alien's are dangers is what they did to my mother's
                                            > family....I was in Roswell the summer of 47....
                                            >
                                            > BobbyJoe
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
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                                          • Banshee
                                            Hi Bobby Joe, I am sorry I reacted too cruel. But you wrote it down in a way I thought, yeah, yeah. It makes it a lot clearer now. And I think I agree with you
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 9, 2001
                                              Hi Bobby Joe,
                                              I am sorry I reacted too cruel. But you wrote it down in a way I thought,
                                              yeah, yeah.
                                              It makes it a lot clearer now. And I think I agree with you on the subject
                                              what may be there, underground. That part I have heard more. I hope you are
                                              right about the 'rocks' you find. If it can help Nature it is your job to do
                                              so.
                                              I wish you luck.
                                              Friendly greetings, Banshee
                                            • Banshee
                                              Bobby Joe, I forgot to ask you. What did the aliens do to your mother. Have you seen it happen?? Tell me please, what did these aliens do to your mother. I
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 9, 2001
                                                Bobby Joe,
                                                I forgot to ask you. What did the aliens do to your mother. Have you seen it
                                                happen??
                                                Tell me please, what did these aliens do to your mother.
                                                I want to know, I don't believe aliens are a danger.
                                                Please, will you explain??
                                                Friendly greetings, Banshee
                                              • Roger Anderton
                                                Dear Phil Yes. The danger with this UFO investigation is knowing when to stop: One can establish for oneself that something very odd is happening and that
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Sep 9, 2001
                                                  Dear Phil

                                                  Yes. The danger with this UFO investigation is knowing when to stop:

                                                  One can establish for oneself that something very odd is happening and that
                                                  leads one to conclude 'such and such'. But then this leads to something
                                                  else, and then something else etc., getting more outlandish along the way,
                                                  with one not knowing when to stop.

                                                  Icke tries adding everything up, and seems to get part of the way to the
                                                  answer, then goes too far.

                                                  Cheers
                                                  Roger
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "philip crocker" <freemagonia@...>
                                                  To: "ufonet" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:11 AM
                                                  Subject: [UFOnet] Chemtrails and UFO's


                                                  > Hello Roger,
                                                  > Yes, I agree with you Roger, at first my worst
                                                  > nightmare was that Keels Ultraterrestrials leads
                                                  > uncomfortably to Ikes Reptilians, and quite frankly I
                                                  > do not want to go there. Anyway Ike 'feels' wrong, I'm
                                                  > not sure how much value there is in a feeling, but I
                                                  > think it is that part of my mind says it does not add
                                                  > up that way. Keel says that the driving force is
                                                  > probably electromagnetic itself in 'form', sorry,
                                                  > electromagnetism has no form, but I run out of terms
                                                  > to express myself. The implication is that it is
                                                  > highly different than what we would term as a 'being'
                                                  > i.e., not reptilian or anything else, but can briefly
                                                  > become what ever it needs to be, or more correctly,
                                                  > what our minds reflect.
                                                  > Also it may not be mentally similar to us, and this is
                                                  > where David Ike falls down, he sees everything in
                                                  > 'human' terms, of greed, power, possession and so on.
                                                  > Keels observations seem to indicate that the positive
                                                  > or negative impression gained by the victim of these
                                                  > encounters is a subjective one, and the image that is
                                                  > reflected is a result of our own mentality. Maybe the
                                                  > Ultraterrestrials are projections into our reality on
                                                  > our terms (the Solaris effect) the 'control' we
                                                  > experience may be more of an effort to disguise the
                                                  > truth of the proximity and perhaps the vulnerability
                                                  > of the forms. I have often wondered why the phenomenon
                                                  > continually projects the impression that it is outside
                                                  > our space/reality/time. What if this is the main point
                                                  > is to divert our attention away from the obvious? and
                                                  > that in reality it is not separate but right amongst
                                                  > us? The continual plea is that we are endangering our
                                                  > planet, I agree, but we are also damaging the
                                                  > environment for anything else that lives here.
                                                  > I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt here, because I
                                                  > can see that anything with our worst interests at
                                                  > heart could do us much more damage than is evident, or
                                                  > maybe its just good husbandry? Keel says that the
                                                  > spiritualism and channelling are the same phenomenon
                                                  > from a different angle, as are poltergeists, ghosts,
                                                  > miracles, visions and religious visitations, and that
                                                  > the individuals concerned are highly personally
                                                  > targeted. This would indicate a close link with our
                                                  > subconscious and deep inner selves.
                                                  > The utraterrestrials or Nefilim may be real, but they
                                                  > may be also be projected forms acting out a game that
                                                  > is older thann the present one. That is the ET origin
                                                  > of the Nefilim may be no more than the same claim made
                                                  > by the recent phenomenon.
                                                  > Have you read any of Colin Wilson's theories about the
                                                  > 'ladder of the mind'? that we are the receptacle of
                                                  > many higher (and lower) forms of mentality and that we
                                                  > move up and down the rungs occasionally, but are
                                                  > mostly stuck where we are. The supposed purpose is to
                                                  > reach a 'gestalt' of all these forms, a sort of god
                                                  > like whole?
                                                  > Of course none of this explains the 'wheezing olive
                                                  > skinned men in black' and their apparently unhealthy
                                                  > life style! Nore does it explain crashed UFO's and
                                                  > bodies. Maybe we are not the only ones being
                                                  > controlled!
                                                  > I remember an old science fiction story, by Damon
                                                  > Knight, I think, about mental parasites that hide in
                                                  > the mind and feed off our mental energy, only a
                                                  > purging of the mind sets people free whereupon the
                                                  > free ones discover they have enormous mental powers
                                                  > and abilities, all kept repressed by the ousted
                                                  > resident parasites.
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't know Roger, I'm still trying to digest it all,
                                                  > sometimes it gets a bit too big for me and my mind
                                                  > rebels and goes off for a mental cuppa, which reminds
                                                  > me I'm about due for one, a real one that is!
                                                  >
                                                  > Take Care Roger,
                                                  > Phil
                                                  >
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