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#6 Counting coup in the final conflict

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  • TimeStar
    Roger wrote: With different groups of people wanting to use words defined in different ways, how is anyone expected to communicate? If a person goes West far
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 29 6:28 PM
      Roger wrote:

      With different groups of people wanting to use words defined in different
      ways, how is anyone expected to communicate? If a person goes West far
      enough, then they eventually end up going all the way round the world. So,
      if I choose to define things I could point to my east and say America is
      that way, then I am still in the west even with
      respect to America. But by some strange arbitrary definition process of
      humans, it is not usually defined in that way, and I am supposed to point
      west. Why is that?

      Krsanna wrote:

      A compass pointing to magnetic north is the ultimate direction finder as
      long as surveyors, cartographers, pilots, etc. can monitor the precise
      movement of magnetic north. Maps and globes are popular solutions to the
      conundrum that you cite.

      I'm glad we worked through that definition.





      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
      To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [UFOnet] #4 Counting coup in the final conflict


      > Krsanna
      >
      > I look forward to your information on Jung.
      >
      > The West has been usually meant to mean west of the Middle East
      (Jerusalem
      > and so forth). Europe is thus the West with respect to Iran etc. With
      > America being more west, you seem to want to define that you are in The
      West
      > and England is in the East.
      >
      > With different groups of people wanting to use words defined in different
      > ways, how is anyone expected to communicate?
      > If a person goes West far enough, then they eventually end up going all
      the
      > way round the world. So, if I choose to define things I could point to my
      > east and say America is that way, then I am still in the west even with
      > respect to America. But by some strange arbitrary definition process of
      > humans, it is not usually defined in that way, and I am supposed to point
      > west. Why is that?
      >
      > Similar problems occur with words like Spirituality.
      >
      > In my dictionary, which is probably too old for your liking, Spiritual
      means
      > 'concerned with sacred or religious things'. Presumably spiritual in the
      > days of my dictionary meant much the same thing as religious? But since
      that
      > time you have decided to redefine spiritual and religious to mean
      different
      > things?
      >
      > Back to this Bohemian Grove matter. So, the Native Americans got the
      ruling
      > elite of the white man to follow their religion? The only problem is that
      in
      > the definition of the white man's existing religion that is Satanism.
      >
      > As you can see the change in meaning of words can cause a great deal of
      > problems.
      >
      > One person uses their words to mean one thing, and another person uses
      them
      > to mean something else, end - result is usually: WAR BETWEEN NATIONS.
      > The origin of a lot of wars is rather trivial, don't you think?
      >
      > As I have pointed out in several postings, there is quite a large number
      of
      > different religious groups who want their version of Faith confirmed as
      > absolutely true, with everyone else's being wrong, if ET ever gives us a
      > large scale public visit. The conflict once again is over the meaning of
      > words.
      >
      >
      > Cheers Roger
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "TimeStar" <timestar@...>
      > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:53 AM
      > Subject: [UFOnet] #4 Counting coup in the final conflict
      >
      >
      > > Dear Roger:
      > >
      > > You are now talking about "Carl Jung's Collective Unconscious" with
      > examples that contradict Jung's definition of the collective unconscious.
      > But before dealing with the lofty terms of the collective unconscious, it
      > would be a good idea to explain how you are defining terms already used to
      > state your case, specificially "Westernised mind" and "primitive
      religion".
      > I'm particularly interested in your definition and operational model for
      > "Westernised mind of the Europeans". This effort will certainly
      contribute
      > to your desire for proofs.
      > >
      > > You assert, "What I am interested in is proof not faith." The proofs
      that
      > interest you demand stringent disciplines of data that generally begin
      with
      > defining terms. To keep this dialog moving, I'll suggest a definition for
      > westernised mind and you can comment on it.
      > >
      > > Eastern and western hemispheres are divided by the Greenwich Mean, or 0
      > longitude, that runs through London and the dateline that runs through the
      > Pacific west of Hawaii. You can check my figures by looking at any good
      > globe.
      > >
      > > Most of Europe is in the eastern hemisphere and you, Roger, are hovering
      > on the eastern hemisphere with your dial-up address in Exeter (England).
      As
      > I have pointed out to you on several occasions, most of Europe's science
      and
      > religion were imported straight out of the Middle East by way of Greece
      and
      > the Holy Land. French and Italian are Latin languages and English
      > originated as a literally vulgar language (spoken but not written) that
      was
      > organized on Latin rules. Europe and part of London are technically in
      the
      > eastern hemisphere and have very different historical cultures than the
      rest
      > of the western hemisphere.
      > >
      > > Technically, Roger, you should be thinking of yourself as more of an
      > easterner than a westerner. Bear in mind that we are relying on the
      > geographic coordinates laid out with the globe. English speaking people
      > tend to think of themselves as westerners, although their culture largely
      > imported from the Middle East. I've always found that an interesting
      > phenomenon.
      > >
      > > The Atlantic Ocean separates most of the western hemisphere from your
      > dial-up address in Exeter, and the Atlantic Ocean is big enough to keep
      the
      > eastern-inspired Europeans separated from the western hemisphere until 5
      > centuries ago. Five centuries is not a very long time in historical
      terms.
      > >
      > > The vast majority of land in the western hemisphere is west of the
      > Atlantic Ocean and includes Canada and North, Central and South America.
      > Central and South America have very large populations of indigenous
      peoples,
      > or Native Americans.
      > >
      > > The Magna Carta that originated in what is technically in easternized
      mind
      > of Englishmen was a unique document when it was signed in the 11th
      Century.
      > It protected the rights of the aristocracy (landowners) but did absolutely
      > nothing for the common person who was a landless vassal. The Magna Carta
      > took care of the monied property owners and left the vassals in a world of
      > hurt.
      > >
      > > The concept of human rights was borrowed from the Native American
      Iroquois
      > League of Nations that served as a model for America's government. Native
      > Americans, who had evolved a true democracy with the concepts of human
      > dignity hundreds of years before Columbus set foot on the American
      > continent. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson studied Native American
      > governance and modeled the new nation after what they had learned from
      > Native Americans.
      > >
      > > Thus the principles of human rights and dignity in governance was gifted
      > to the world by Native Americans. The true "Westernised mind" is Native
      > American in origin.
      > >
      > > This data may initially seem like an insurmountable to existed fixated
      > opinions you may have, but a search of the data will show and a look at
      the
      > globe with show that it is factual. But with your keen intelligence and a
      > little work with the globe the reality of this definition will be readily
      > apparent.
      > >
      > > The westernized mind, therefore, is Native American in origin. Perhaps
      > you really had something else in mind when you wrote about the
      "Westernised
      > mind"?
      > >
      > > PRIMITIVE RELIGIONS
      > >
      > > This definition does not come into view as easily as the global
      definition
      > of east and west. The first task for finding this definition is to define
      > "religion" and "primitive". Additionally, "spirituality" should be added
      to
      > the list for definition. As you undoubtedly know, European religion
      started
      > began as an expansionist movement of Rome that subsequently adopted
      > Christianity as a religion.
      > >
      > > Again, I have pointed out to you many times that Native Americans did
      not
      > worship the supreme deity in the same way that Europeans worshipped their
      > god of wrath who threatened expulsion to hell if they didn't get with the
      > program. Therefore, what the European defined as religion is not
      > necessarily the same everywhere. Spirituality is not necessarily the same
      > as religion and should be defined with its own terms.
      > >
      > > I WILL POST A FEW COMMENTS FROM CARL JUNG ABOUT THE COLLECTIVE
      UNCONSCIOUS
      > TOMORROW TO SHOW YOU THAT YOUR THEORY ATTEMPTING TO EXPLAIN PAST LIVES IS
      > NOT CONSISTENT WITH JUNG'S DEFINITION.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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