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Conclusion part 5

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  • Roger Anderton
    Part 5- The Conclusion In opposition to mainstream science beliefs, I believe that telepathy is a reality, and that puts a whole new interpretation of our
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2001
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      Part 5- The Conclusion



      In opposition to mainstream science beliefs, I believe that telepathy is a reality, and that puts a whole new interpretation of our history for the past 2000 years.



      Mainstream science would be quite happy classifying the orthodox Christian religion as being founded upon hallucinations and delusions.

      BUT the mainstream science that has arisen has come about because of the corrupting influence of orthodox Christianity upon it.



      As noted - Orthodox Christianity was fighting any perceived threat to its beliefs, mainly through the actions of the Jesuits.

      These actions were not entirely successful, and failed to create a science that agreed with orthodox religion. For instance fundamentalists hate the scientific theory of evolution.

      Thus the religious people are unhappy with the science that they have shaped. A science that they have tried to make disregard any facts that contradict their faith.

      If science was free from orthodox Christian restrictions, it would have developed a science that agreed with Gnostic ideas. And as noted those Gnostic ideas are related to Eastern Mysticism.

      From theory and experiment I am convinced that telepathy is real, and the consequences of that upsets radically mainstream science.



      There are accounts that Jesus was able to appear physically, which some people take to mean that it was not a dream or vision or hallucination. But according to the Gnostic texts this was part of the mystery of how a vision of Jesus could become so real like that it seemed physical. This then corresponds to a type of shaman experience where the experiencer loses the ability to tell the difference between the dream and reality - where the dream impresses him as so real that it seems reality.

      From mainstream science all weird accounts by truthful witnesses could theoretically be explainable to some extent as mere hallucinations. The problem is that people can share the same delusion and hallucination. Modern science has a little problem with that issue. A shared hallucination experience seems to require telepathy.

      IF you add that 'telepathy is real' to the Shamanic Experience (or call such a weird experience whatever you like) then people can share the same fantasy, dream, vision, hallucination.

      And telepathy then raises all sorts of problems - if the vision - dream is experienced by a group of people, where does it come from? Could a dead person's consciousness exist, and transmit a vision to the living? Who is sending the telepathic message? It could be anyone or anything. Then the dream - vision looks like it could be to a large extent as real as watching television. Television is images transmitted to us onto a box. Shamanic experiences are transmitted to our brains, when our brains are in a certain state of mind that is able to pick them up.

      And what of the reports that the arisen Jesus was able to eat and such. Well, some visions become so realistic that the expereincer cannot tell the difference between reality and the vision. It is summarised by the Zen saying: ' a man dreams that he is a butterfly, or is it a butterfly that dreams it was a man?' If a person has a dream that he is a butterfly, and he gets totally lost into that dream, then he can awake in that dream and imagine it as reality, remembering what he was doing when he was not dreaming. He is then in dreamworld as a butterfly remembering what he did as a man, with those memories seeming like a dream.



      In the realworld he is a man that dreams of being a butterfly.

      In the dreamworld he is a butterfly that remembers the realworld as if it were the dream.



      Which experience is real? By the theory of relativity - all observer observations that are truthful, can be treated as equally valid.

      Telepathy causes a big problem - it can destroy the way we try to define the world as split into 'subjective' and 'objective.' In some science fiction stories this theme is explored, where telepaths give illusions that seem real, such as in the Classic Star Trek stories - The cage, and The Spectre of the Gun. And this theme is explored in a bit more detail, in films like The Matrix: what if a person lived his entire life in an illusionary world? If 'illusion' seemed as 'real' as 'reality', how could we tell the difference?

      Acceptance of telepathy then breaks us out of the rigidity that modern mainstream science wants to place these experiences as being. They then become a certain level of reality.



      The outrageous answer to the UFO Mystery is that : Mainstream beliefs fail. Western society has been engaged in trying to fit all evidence into the wrong ideology. Ancient wisdom a la Eastern Mysticism is valid not Western beliefs.







      Similar things have been said by other UFO Researchers about our Western beliefs being wrong, but the acceptance that one's education has led one to believe things that are radically wrong, is very psychologically disturbing. It seems that some of these researchers after having decided that this is the Answer to UFOs then fall into a delusion of believing 'anything' unorthodox.



      UFO Researcher Albert Budden comes close to a belief in telepathy. He recognises that electromagnetic disturbances can cause UFO experiences. But he would want to think of these experiences as being hallucinations without being intelligibly transmitted. He tries hard to hold onto this part of Western beliefs.



      David Icke talks of shape shifting reptilian aliens. He seems to be taking the word of some witnesses. Now if reality and dreamworld can get confused through telepathy, how real would be the experience of someone seeing a shape shifting alien? In 'imprecisely' defined words the UFO- alien experience can be happening on a different level of reality - what some call another dimension.

      A lot of Western Society's problems arise from denying the reality of telepathy, a reality that Eastern mysticism was more capable of dealing with.

      Western Society has tried to artificially divide the world it experiences into two categories such as - the 'natural' and the 'supernatural.'

      Experiences that it deems happen in the 'natural' world our society deem as 'real.'

      Those experiences deemed 'supernatural' it deems 'unreal' and ridicules as superstitious nonsense and so forth.

      When the proper reality is that everything happens in the 'natural' world there is no border between 'natural' and 'supernatural.' It is just a peculiarity of Western Civilisation that it does not want to accept the 'full version of reality.'

      From a scientific perspective this is interesting. The best way to understand the universe is to try to study part of its effects in isolation from other effects.

      IF science investigation had been started on an acceptance that telepathy works. Then the 'telepathy' part of human nature would have been a hindrance in trying to understand how the universe works. It has been the part of the physics - where the experimenter's mind interferes with the experiment that he is conducting. And there has been no adequate way to take this into account. Different experimenters would have different influences when they conducted the same experiment and thus produce different results. All experiments would then have been unpredictable. There would have been no way that experiments could be set up to compensate for such an effect as telepathy. So, science had to deny that such a thing was possible, and get its experimenters to believe that telepathy was not possible, so that their minds did not influence the experiments.

      Thus science as it has so far been formed has been founded on isolating the effect of telepathy (by denying it exists) hence producing data where the telepathy has not been a factor in the equations derived from that data.

      Some philosophers say that Science is an unnatural activity for humans to engage in. A procedure which ignores and isolates certain effects from what is being studied, is the only way that Western science has been able to proceed and be so successful as it has been. A 'holistic' approach (that seeks to include all relevant factors in what is being studied) would not have been so successful. Western science is so successful, because it takes an 'ostrich with its head in the sand' approach to many topics.

      The process of Western Science moves from one paradigm to the next, as it enlarges the scope of phenomena that it is willing to explain. The addition of 'telepathy' to the existing paradigm however creates a paradigm that is psychologically disturbing to people that have an unfounded faith that the existing paradigm contains the 'absolute truth', hence they engage in activity to try to prevent the advancement of science.



      Any questions?




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Banshee
      Hi, Roger, I have questions. I didn t understand everything you wrote but I know that telepathy and having visions , or see in the future, as I can call it
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 3, 2001
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        Hi, Roger, I have questions. I didn't understand everything you wrote but I
        know that telepathy and having 'visions', or see in the future, as I can
        call it that, are very true. It happens in this world, not only with
        christian people, but to everyone, from every believe or not believe.Not to
        everyone, but to people all over the world. And it has nothing to do with
        believe in jezus or the bible, it just happens to people, who really did not
        ask about it, it just happens to them. Some of them are scared to death
        when they find out the first time. People do not choose for seeing or
        hearing things they'd probably rather not see or hear. It makes them
        different, and which child wants to be different from the
        others.........Please, try to understand, it is a gift.......but it is also
        a curse........Friendly greetings, Banshee.
      • Roger Anderton
        Dear Banshee ... Sorry, I waffled on. I was just trying to give enough background information along with the main points. ... I can call it that, are very
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 4, 2001
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          Dear Banshee
          >>> I have questions. I didn't understand everything you wrote

          Sorry, I waffled on. I was just trying to give enough background information
          along with the main points.

          >>>but I know that telepathy and having 'visions', or see in the future, as
          I can
          call it that, are very true. It happens in this world, not only with
          christian people, but to everyone, from every believe or not believe.Not to
          everyone, but to people all over the world. And it has nothing to do with
          believe in jezus or the bible, it just happens to people, who really did not
          ask about it, it just happens to them.

          Yes, and the foundation of Christianity was in part based on people called
          Gnostics having telepathic experiences, with what they thought was Jesus.
          The orthodox Christians that became the Catholic Church condemned the
          Gnostics. Most Gnostics believed in a Spiritual Resurrection of Jesus -
          which was a telepathic experience. While the Catholics believed in a Bodily
          Resurrection of Jesus - where Jesus came back from the dead like a
          Frankenstein monster. When Catholics took control of Christianity, they then
          set about enforcing their belief onto everyone else, giving us a Social
          order that tries to deny the reality of anything connected with telepathy,
          ranging from adjusting physics, adjusting history, and adjusting any other
          science so that they are not in agreement with the hypothesis that telepathy
          exists.

          >>>> Some of them are scared to death
          when they find out the first time. People do not choose for seeing or
          hearing things they'd probably rather not see or hear. It makes them
          different, and which child wants to be different from the
          others.........Please, try to understand, it is a gift.......but it is also
          a curse........

          Yes, and has been part of the religious reasons for a lot of wars. In the
          West, people have been in denial about telepathy and so those who have the
          ability do not know how to properly use it. Westerners through Religious
          education on such subjects are often taught that it is Satanic, and so no
          one it gets out of control.

          Cheers Roger



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Banshee" <k.schans@...>
          To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:09 PM
          Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5


          > Hi, Roger, I have questions. I didn't understand everything you wrote but
          I
          > know that telepathy and having 'visions', or see in the future, as I can
          > call it that, are very true. It happens in this world, not only with
          > christian people, but to everyone, from every believe or not believe.Not
          to
          > everyone, but to people all over the world. And it has nothing to do with
          > believe in jezus or the bible, it just happens to people, who really did
          not
          > ask about it, it just happens to them. Some of them are scared to death
          > when they find out the first time. People do not choose for seeing or
          > hearing things they'd probably rather not see or hear. It makes them
          > different, and which child wants to be different from the
          > others.........Please, try to understand, it is a gift.......but it is
          also
          > a curse........Friendly greetings, Banshee.
          >
          >
        • Joseph F. Guarino
          I just caught the end of this part 5 post. Interestingly, I just started reading The Nag Hammadi last night. Synchronistic? I wasn t interested in the
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 4, 2001
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            I just caught the end of this "part 5" post. Interestingly, I just started reading The Nag Hammadi last night. Synchronistic?

            I wasn't interested in the other posts, because after starting to read the first one (part 1), I felt the author was stating mere opinion and I found no references to help support suggested claims, so I didn't read any more of them. This is a very difficult topic to me, because I realize how much one would have to research in order to draw the kinds of conclusive statements the author was making.

            Anyway, I thought it was neat how I just started to read these Gnostic texts that were found around 1945 and not published after being translated until about 1975. I turned on my computer and bam, there was a reference to this religious group. Kewl, eh?

            I would recommend the read. :O)

            Joseph
            Houston, TX


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Banshee
            Hi again Roger, now I have found you......telepathy and having visions are slowly coming up now. People dare to talk about it more often. Everybody carries
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 5, 2001
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              Hi again Roger, now I have found you......telepathy and having visions are
              slowly coming up now. People dare to talk about it more often. Everybody
              carries these 'gifts' inside....in your 'deeper self' as I call it. But
              people don't recognize it anymore, because of money and posessions and their
              love for power. They built wall's within their souls and cannot reach it
              anymore. But nowaday's you hear more and more about it.....that's cool, the
              way it should be. And everybody can learn to use these abilities, to begin
              learning to understand that there is another way of living. And you see it
              allthrough the ages, only then, you would be burned as a witch. I like this
              discussions...You write me back, please. Friendly greetings, Banshee
            • Roger Anderton
              ... would have to research in order to draw the kinds of conclusive statements the author was making. Yep, I ve read a lot to reach these conclusions. It shows
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 5, 2001
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                >>>This is a very difficult topic to me, because I realize how much one
                would have to research in order to draw the kinds of conclusive statements
                the author was making.



                Yep, I've read a lot to reach these conclusions.

                It shows how easily things can be hidden. Academics specialise in certain
                topics and don't take the overall picture of how their speciality fits in
                with every other topic.

                When you add up what all these academics are saying into one package then
                the common- sense world- view that ordinary people are taught is not
                correct.

                Then you start digging away and finding out how gigantic is the discrepancy
                between 'reality' and the 'common sense ordinary world view' and you end up
                dismissed as just another 'kook' by the mainstream.

                From the history, we have our - Western Society being founded upon
                Catholic Christianity and a suppression of Gnostic Christianity that was
                more in line with Eastern Mysticism. So, we tended to develop a Science
                based on that version of religious belief (with some exceptions), instead of
                science based on Eastern Mysticism.

                Telepathy is real, but our Science under Western religious influence has
                tended to suppress that Hypothesis whenever it can. Hence we can't even
                approach some mysteries with the correct scientific theories.


                Cheers Roger



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Joseph F. Guarino" <zen27@...>
                To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 9:26 PM
                Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5


                > I just caught the end of this "part 5" post. Interestingly, I just
                started reading The Nag Hammadi last night. Synchronistic?
                >
                > I wasn't interested in the other posts, because after starting to read the
                first one (part 1), I felt the author was stating mere opinion and I found
                no references to help support suggested claims, so I didn't read any more of
                them. This is a very difficult topic to me, because I realize how much one
                would have to research in order to draw the kinds of conclusive statements
                the author was making.
                >
                > Anyway, I thought it was neat how I just started to read these Gnostic
                texts that were found around 1945 and not published after being translated
                until about 1975. I turned on my computer and bam, there was a reference to
                this religious group. Kewl, eh?
                >
                > I would recommend the read. :O)
                >
                > Joseph
                > Houston, TX
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Roger Anderton
                Dear Banshee I agree with what you say. But I would prefer to live in a universe where telepathy does not exist. The consequences of its existence are far too
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 5, 2001
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                  Dear Banshee


                  I agree with what you say. But I would prefer to live in a universe where
                  telepathy does not exist. The consequences of its existence are far too
                  unpleasant.

                  Cheers Roger



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Banshee" <k.schans@...>
                  To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 8:47 AM
                  Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5


                  > Hi again Roger, now I have found you......telepathy and having visions are
                  > slowly coming up now. People dare to talk about it more often. Everybody
                  > carries these 'gifts' inside....in your 'deeper self' as I call it. But
                  > people don't recognize it anymore, because of money and posessions and
                  their
                  > love for power. They built wall's within their souls and cannot reach it
                  > anymore. But nowaday's you hear more and more about it.....that's cool,
                  the
                  > way it should be. And everybody can learn to use these abilities, to begin
                  > learning to understand that there is another way of living. And you see it
                  > allthrough the ages, only then, you would be burned as a witch. I like
                  this
                  > discussions...You write me back, please. Friendly greetings, Banshee
                  >
                  >
                • TimeStar
                  Roger, You is the most succinct statement of your views and data that I ve yet seen. Roger wrote: I agree with what you say. But I would prefer to live in a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 5, 2001
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                    Roger,

                    You is the most succinct statement of your views and data that I've yet
                    seen.

                    Roger wrote:

                    "I agree with what you say. But I would prefer to live in a universe where
                    telepathy does not exist. The consequences of its existence are far too
                    unpleasant." and

                    "War is part of Evolution - survival of the fittest."

                    Krsanna wrote:

                    The evidence indicates that telepathy is a qualifier of fitness in
                    evolution, with virtually all ET contacts -- "good and "bad" alike --
                    displaying telepathy. Thank you for this stunning summation.

                    Regards,

                    Krsanna




                    >
                    > Cheers Roger
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Banshee" <k.schans@...>
                    > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 8:47 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5
                    >
                    >
                    > > Hi again Roger, now I have found you......telepathy and having visions
                    are
                    > > slowly coming up now. People dare to talk about it more often.
                    Everybody
                    > > carries these 'gifts' inside....in your 'deeper self' as I call it. But
                    > > people don't recognize it anymore, because of money and posessions and
                    > their
                    > > love for power. They built wall's within their souls and cannot reach it
                    > > anymore. But nowaday's you hear more and more about it.....that's cool,
                    > the
                    > > way it should be. And everybody can learn to use these abilities, to
                    begin
                    > > learning to understand that there is another way of living. And you see
                    it
                    > > allthrough the ages, only then, you would be burned as a witch. I like
                    > this
                    > > discussions...You write me back, please. Friendly greetings, Banshee
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Cris Wilson
                    ... Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5 ... I think telepathy does exist to a certain extent, but not as shown on B5 or ST. 17 years ago I met and married
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 5, 2001
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                      >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                      Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Conclusion part 5
                      >>
                      >Dear Banshee
                      >
                      >
                      >I agree with what you say. But I would prefer to live in a universe where
                      >telepathy does not exist. The consequences of its existence are far too
                      >unpleasant.
                      >
                      >Cheers Roger



                      I think telepathy does exist to a certain extent, but not as shown on B5 or
                      ST. 17 years ago I met and married a British Army Lad, being a Brit myself
                      helps here. He was in the Falklands when the fighting was on, and he went on
                      his second tour less then eight months later just after we got married.

                      We used to send write a letter each day and if I would ask him a question,
                      (I wrote the letters in the evening, and posted them then following morning)
                      I would often get the reply to my question at lunchtime when I opened the
                      letter he had posted two days before I asked the question. I lived in a very
                      rural area and the postman who delivered my letters also took away my
                      letters, so there was no way that I could have read Phil�s letters before I
                      posted mine.

                      Another odd thing that happened telepathically was at night. I used to go
                      into a �dream� state and found I could have conversations with Phil. Year
                      later I found a red-faced and normally sceptical husband telling me he used
                      to have the same conversations with me when he went to sleep. I believe that
                      telepathic thoughts can move thought time and space especially with the
                      Falklands being in a different time zone to the UK.


                      Cris


                      What was - is, what is - will be, what will be - was.




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                    • Banshee
                      Hi Cris, I think that the experience you had with telepathy frightened you and scared you away. Most of the times, if telepathy comes true ,hope I wtite this
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 6, 2001
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                        Hi Cris, I think that the experience you had with telepathy frightened you
                        and scared you away. Most of the times, if telepathy comes true ,hope I
                        wtite this okay, it is suddenly. But why is it for you such a curse? You
                        said your husband had had the same experience at the same time as you. Why
                        did you get so much trouble with it.......it happens all the time, all over
                        the world. Everyone can get a telepatic experience, it is not evil, it gives
                        you the opportunity to have contact with a loved one, far away. Mostly it
                        happens when people are very stressed or frightened, then they send out a
                        signal, without knowing it themselves, and a loved one can pick up the
                        signal he send and that is very simply explained, the way telepathy works.
                        It is not a curse, it is a good thing, more people should have the ability
                        to be telepathic. Sorry if it is too simply said, but my english is not that
                        wel to write it all down at once. I hope you will change your mind about
                        telepathy, for it really is a good thing, not evil, no curse. Friendly
                        greetings, Banshee
                      • Cris Wilson
                        ... To me it’s a curse because I have not been able to keep using it; I would love to be able to telepathically talk to my family this way. I would love to
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 13, 2001
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                          >From: "Banshee" <k.schans@...>
                          >>
                          >Hi Cris, I think that the experience you had with telepathy frightened you
                          >and scared you away. Most of the times, if telepathy comes true ,hope I
                          >wtite this okay, it is suddenly. But why is it for you such a curse? You
                          >said your husband had had the same experience at the same time as you. Why
                          >did you get so much trouble with it.......it happens all the time, all over
                          >the world. Everyone can get a telepatic experience, it is not evil, it
                          >gives
                          >you the opportunity to have contact with a loved one, far away. Mostly it
                          >happens when people are very stressed or frightened, then they send out a
                          >signal, without knowing it themselves, and a loved one can pick up the
                          >signal he send and that is very simply explained, the way telepathy works.
                          >It is not a curse, it is a good thing, more people should have the ability
                          >to be telepathic. Sorry if it is too simply said, but my english is not
                          >that
                          >wel to write it all down at once. I hope you will change your mind about
                          >telepathy, for it really is a good thing, not evil, no curse. Friendly
                          >greetings, Banshee
                          >
                          >


                          To me it�s a curse because I have not been able to keep using it; I would
                          love to be able to telepathically talk to my family this way. I would love
                          to be able to expand on these gifts but I do not even know how to begin and
                          that is the sad part of it.

                          Lots of love

                          Cris

                          What was - is, what is - will be, what will be - was.








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