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Re: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

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  • Roger Anderton
    Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream scienceDear C G Roselli ... I am aware of Vallee s theorizing. He thinks of a control system , which is a fairly ambiguous idea, in
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2001
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      Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

      Dear C G Roselli

       

      >>>>>I know scientists like Peter Sturrock, Jacques Vallee, Michael Persinger... to mention some, who have not find any evidence of the "extraterrestrial" hypothesis.
      I am aware of Vallee’s theorizing. He thinks of a ‘control system’, which is a fairly ambiguous idea, in some part related to Carl Jung’s theorizing that we all share a ‘collective unconsciousness’, which means we could all be one organism like an ‘ant colony’ but we are unaware of this because of the delusion of individuality that we have during our conscious lives.
      All of this is of course speculation. But I wonder what we would call such a ‘collective mind’? It would be totally alien to anything I personally was conscious of. To me it would be an Alien. I don’t know what you would call it.
      Vallee and other scientists’ speculations in this area, does not necessarily lead to the ‘collective mind’ idea. Some scientists start to get all religious about the matter and think in terms of God. Now what is God? Something totally alien to humanity? Just another alien as far as I am concerned. I don’t know what you would call it.
      So, some scientists when they speculate as to what is the answer to the UFO Mystery, come up with Exotic Alien ideas. Vallee’s speculations are Exotic Alien ideas. There are lots of such speculating, ranging to ideas that entities come here from another dimension of reality etc., all just Exotic Aliens.
      The ET 1950s B movie idea of some humanoid creature coming here from another planet, is just one of the more simpler alien scenarios.
      >>>>>But publishing ideas in journals or giving lectures is not imposing concepts.
      Certain journals censor ideas, and will only allow certain ideas to be published. These journals then give a biased perspective. As I have already said - Tesla is one of the keys to UFO physics. Ideas associated with him get suppressed.
       
      >>>>>Years ago, the extraterrestrial model was the only way to explain UFOs other than optical ilusions and other debunking attitudes.
      I disagree. My investigations reveal that there has been long term censorship in science, further back than Tesla and science is now built on the wrong foundations.
      The Aliens have the possibility of coming to us via Tesla technology. Tesla technology might be ‘back engineering’. There might have been no physical contact made with aliens, only communication made in the 19th century (or earlier, because Tesla appears to not be the first), with persons unknown then building the unconventional crafts.
      The debunkers merely move to new ground, trying to put up another false idea as dogma, when an old idea falls. Budden’s theorizing is a resurrection of a lot of what has been censored, but minus the bits about aliens. Looks like creating a new falsehood to me to divert mainstream physics once again.
      In the correct history: the Copernican Revolution came about based on heretical religious ideas. Mainstream religion eventually got around to persecuting that heresy and associated heresies, leaving just a part of the physics to struggle on. Eventually Newton made a big break through, working from his belief that he was recovering Ancient Wisdom. Boscovich in the 18th century completed the gaps in Newton’s theory. There were physicists working on these theories until WWII, then physics history was rewritten. I wonder why? Maybe someone was scarred of the Atom bomb technology, and worried at what else the proper physics was capable of.
       
      Roger
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 3:05 PM
      Subject: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

      Hello Roger,

      original-------------------------------------
       
      Dear C. G. Roselli

      The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does not want to believe in aliens, and he does not even want to consider the possibility that aliens are involved, and has closed his mind to that possibility. EM effects can do some of the things Budden says, and he wants to believe it is all accidental rather than deliberate.

      There are quite a few people that want to believe that no aliens are involved, and they try to impose that belief on the rest of us. Not accepting a hypothesis without evidence is being scientific. But these people don’t even want to consider certain hypotheses, and refuse to consider the evidence. That is not what I call scientific, but these people try to make out that they are scientific. [snipped] 
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------

      That the UFOs are more than EM is only an affirmation, and not a good reason to leave other ideas out of the game. Neither Budden, nor others, have to believe in aliens or any other reason to investigate UFOs. They just follow a hypothesis line. Let us see what happens. I do not this author enough to affirm his closed mind.

      You said: "...quite a few people that want to believe that no aliens are involved... try to impose that belief on the rest of us..." I know scientists like Peter Sturrock, Jacques Vallee, Michael Persinger... to mention some, who have not find any evidence of the "extraterrestrial" hypothesis. But publishing ideas in journals or giving lectures is not imposing concepts.

      Years ago, the extraterrestrial model was the only way to explain UFOs other than optical ilusions and other debunking attitudes. Let us see what happens with each line of research. Since I am a scientist myself, I see different hypothesis as something good for knowledge.

      CGR.

       

    • kdk44@juno.com
      I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such as Tesla s and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at what happened
      Message 2 of 6 , May 12, 2001
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        I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such
        as Tesla's and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at
        what happened with Dr. John Mack when he published his new theories of
        the Abduction phenomena, Harvard tried to kick him out, he almost had to
        go to court to keep his tenure. Anyone who has a master's degree from a
        University knows that to have a thesis passed and supported, the only way
        you can get a master's degree, is by the approval of a professor.
        Professors are not fond of thesis' presenting new field expanding
        research or theories, the rule seems to be 'support the science already
        there or take a hike'. Not only is it quite evident to anyone that
        Universities suppress science but also the Government. And guess who
        funds alot of University projects? You are right if you answered 'Old
        Sam'.

        If there isn't any suppression of science, then why did Thomas
        Edison get all the credit for electricity, which he stole from Tesla, and
        why is Tesla's name not in the history books. Also, why is it that we
        have to pay for heat and electricity when we could all have free energy
        devices in our backyard? Peace and Love, Sophia
      • Roger Anderton
        Tesla is in the History books, but is not given enough prominence, he is side-lined. As well as political reasons for suppressing much of what Tesla was about,
        Message 3 of 6 , May 31, 2001
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          Tesla is in the History books, but is not given enough prominence, he is
          side-lined.

          As well as political reasons for suppressing much of what Tesla was about,
          there seem also religious reasons.

          A lot of people seem to want to believe in certain things, and suppress
          evidence to the contrary. Tesla's insights into Electromagnetism lead to the
          physics of how telepathy works, and there has been a great deal of effort to
          debunk data from the parapsychologists over the past hundred years on that
          subject. The implications of telepathy being real leads to the other
          paranormal topics being real as well, and Homo Religious wants to believe
          false ideas in such topics.




          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <kdk44@...>
          To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: <anseca@...>; <thunderwolf@...>; <watcher1@...>;
          <lakotawan@...>; <phil@...>; <drdonj5219@...>
          Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 2:08 AM
          Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science


          > I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such
          > as Tesla's and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at
          > what happened with Dr. John Mack when he published his new theories of
          > the Abduction phenomena, Harvard tried to kick him out, he almost had to
          > go to court to keep his tenure. Anyone who has a master's degree from a
          > University knows that to have a thesis passed and supported, the only way
          > you can get a master's degree, is by the approval of a professor.
          > Professors are not fond of thesis' presenting new field expanding
          > research or theories, the rule seems to be 'support the science already
          > there or take a hike'. Not only is it quite evident to anyone that
          > Universities suppress science but also the Government. And guess who
          > funds alot of University projects? You are right if you answered 'Old
          > Sam'.
          >
          > If there isn't any suppression of science, then why did Thomas
          > Edison get all the credit for electricity, which he stole from Tesla, and
          > why is Tesla's name not in the history books. Also, why is it that we
          > have to pay for heat and electricity when we could all have free energy
          > devices in our backyard? Peace and Love, Sophia
          >
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