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Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)

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  • Roger Anderton
    Hi Bart Its done a very good job of doing that up to now. Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole is not geared up to
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2 8:17 AM
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      Hi Bart

      Its done a very good job of doing that up to now.

      Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole
      is not geared up to accepting it.

      Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound effects
      on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance, imagine
      what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me, it
      was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."

      At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution calls
      for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan. And the expert
      says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."
      Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.

      If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
      they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
      easily be rejected.

      The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society would
      collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
      suppressed at all costs no matter what. Ideally science should be allowed to
      look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea. But in the case of this
      idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea. Society would have to be
      structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory would
      be acceptable. Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
      needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
      excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.

      Cheers Roger



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: S A L <anthropoid_study@...>
      To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:36 AM
      Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


      >
      > I agree that while Budden is opening the door to science he is trying to
      > close the door to aliens.
      >
      > But do you realy think that science will actualy succed in shutting the
      > "alien-door" and keeping it shut?
      >
      > Bart Meinen.
      >
      > >----- Original Message -----
      > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
      > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
      > >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:05:10 +0100
      > >
      > >I disagree he's trying to close doors, but see other e-mail
      > >
      > >Roger
      > _________________________________________________________________________
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    • S A L
      ... Hi Roger ... I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens. But like you illustrated so well in your court example: Society as a
      Message 2 of 9 , May 4 2:49 AM
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        >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
        >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
        >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:17:07 +0100
        >
        >Hi Bart

        Hi Roger

        <snip>
        >Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole
        >is not geared up to accepting it.

        I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens.
        But like you illustrated so well in your court example:
        Society as a whole is not constucted to cope with aliens here on Earth.
        Scientificly there is a big difference in the chance aliens excists and the
        chance that they are here on Earth.

        >Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound effects
        >on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance,
        >imagine
        >what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me,
        >it
        >was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."

        I think the defence would lable the person as mental ill, probably having a
        multiple personality syndrome.

        >At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution calls
        >for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan.

        Dr. Carl Sagan was an astronomer and he has giffen his personal (not
        professional) opinion on the subject "Aliens here on Earth".
        The subject has nothing to do with astronomy (accept for the mentioned
        change calculation).
        Because Sagan discussed the subject often and did research on the subject he
        was an expert on Aliens, just as Erich von Daeniken is.
        Sagan is assumed more credible than Von Daeniken, because Sagan was a
        scientist.

        >And the expert
        >says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."

        That's the personal opinion of the expert.

        >Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.
        >
        >If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
        >they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
        >easily be rejected.

        But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable doubt,
        science don't.

        >The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society would
        >collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
        >suppressed at all costs no matter what.

        Untill there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
        Hypothesis (ETH).

        >Ideally science should be allowed to
        >look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea.

        Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
        ETH.

        >But in the case of this
        >idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.

        So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
        etc.) is a health threat.

        >Society would have to be
        >structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory
        >would
        >be acceptable.

        ETH is still a hypothesis, not a theory.

        >Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
        >needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
        >excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.

        There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in studying
        the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
        Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.

        >Cheers Roger

        Where is the Guinness?
        :o)
        Bart Meinen.
        _________________________________________________________________________
        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
      • Roger Anderton
        Hi Bart ... doubt, science don t. Science works by assumptions as well, just tries to hide them. ... Hypothesis (ETH). I have no idea what that evidence could
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 1, 2001
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          Hi Bart


          >>>>But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable
          doubt,
          science don't.

          Science works by assumptions as well, just tries to hide them.
          >>>>Until there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
          Hypothesis (ETH).

          I have no idea what that evidence could be. Surely we have been given amble
          evidence that everything can be debunked?

          >>>Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
          ETH.

          That framework has been suppressed.

          > [But in the case of this idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.]
          So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
          etc.) is a health threat.

          Correct. Health issues, aliens, etc., all tie together in a complete package
          that has to be suppressed by the needs of certain people in Society.
          A big difference between Sagan's personal opinion (that aliens are not
          here) and Daniken's personal opinion (that aliens are here) is that Sagan
          and Society likes to pretend that this first opinion is scientific and the
          other opinion is not scientific, but they place their belief in this opinion
          from faith and not from evidence.

          >>>>There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in
          studying
          the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
          An expectation created because of Cover - Up

          >>Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.

          In other words changing the expectation is suppressing one possibility from
          being considered i.e. if it is successful then its Cover - up . IF you have
          two theories A and B, and you are only allowed to consider theory A as the
          answer to some phenomenon, then theory B has not been put to a proper test.
          Saying theory A answers most of the mystery of the phenomenon under question
          does not mean that theory A fits as the complete answer to that phenomenon.
          It is a lie to think that the scientific method should be to consider only
          one theory and suppress other contenders, but in UFO related subjects -
          science allows itself to lie.

          Cheers Roger
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "S A L" <anthropoid_study@...>
          To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:49 AM
          Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


          > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
          > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
          > >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:17:07 +0100
          > >
          > >Hi Bart
          >
          > Hi Roger
          >
          > <snip>
          > >Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a
          whole
          > >is not geared up to accepting it.
          >
          > I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens.
          > But like you illustrated so well in your court example:
          > Society as a whole is not constucted to cope with aliens here on Earth.
          > Scientificly there is a big difference in the chance aliens excists and
          the
          > chance that they are here on Earth.
          >
          > >Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound
          effects
          > >on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance,
          > >imagine
          > >what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me,
          > >it
          > >was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."
          >
          > I think the defence would lable the person as mental ill, probably having
          a
          > multiple personality syndrome.
          >
          > >At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution
          calls
          > >for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan.
          >
          > Dr. Carl Sagan was an astronomer and he has giffen his personal (not
          > professional) opinion on the subject "Aliens here on Earth".
          > The subject has nothing to do with astronomy (accept for the mentioned
          > change calculation).
          > Because Sagan discussed the subject often and did research on the subject
          he
          > was an expert on Aliens, just as Erich von Daeniken is.
          > Sagan is assumed more credible than Von Daeniken, because Sagan was a
          > scientist.
          >
          > >And the expert
          > >says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."
          >
          > That's the personal opinion of the expert.
          >
          > >Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.
          > >
          > >If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
          > >they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
          > >easily be rejected.
          >
          > But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable doubt,
          > science don't.
          >
          > >The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society
          would
          > >collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
          > >suppressed at all costs no matter what.
          >
          > Untill there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
          > Hypothesis (ETH).
          >
          > >Ideally science should be allowed to
          > >look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea.
          >
          > Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
          > ETH.
          >
          > >But in the case of this
          > >idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.
          >
          > So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
          > etc.) is a health threat.
          >
          > >Society would have to be
          > >structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory
          > >would
          > >be acceptable.
          >
          > ETH is still a hypothesis, not a theory.
          >
          > >Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
          > >needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
          > >excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.
          >
          > There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in
          studying
          > the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
          > Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.
          >
          > >Cheers Roger
          >
          > Where is the Guinness?
          > :o)
          > Bart Meinen.
          > _________________________________________________________________________
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