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Re: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

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  • Roger Anderton
    Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science Dear C. G. Roselli The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does not want to believe in aliens, and he does
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 29 6:03 AM
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      Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

       

       

      Dear C. G. Roselli

      The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does not want to believe in aliens, and he does not even want to consider the possibility that aliens are involved, and has closed his mind to that possibility. EM effects can do some of the things Budden says, and he wants to believe it is all accidental rather than deliberate.

      There are quite a few people that want to believe that no aliens are involved, and they try to impose that belief on the rest of us. Not accepting a hypothesis without evidence is being scientific. But these people don’t even want to consider certain hypotheses, and refuse to consider the evidence. That is not what I call scientific, but these people try to make out that they are scientific.

      The way that Science is now funded, researchers who pursue certain hypotheses find themselves discriminated against. Only researchers that pursue Orthodox approved ideas are usually funded. Hence the Science movement is getting one- sided. It is biased against certain ideas and pretends that it has disproved them, when in reality it never properly allowed anyone to consider them in the first place.

      This sort of thing has happened across all disciplines, hence all of the science that has been developed has been anti- the alien idea, and if things turned out the other way, then a lot of science beliefs would have to change.

      For instance - psychologists tend to believe that alien abduction experiences are hallucinations, mental illness instead of a genuine alien encounter. Hence the dogma of psychology is built as anti- aliens. (Other disciplines have similar foundations upon which they build.)

      Dr. John Mack (book Abductions) professor of psychiatry at Harvard was discriminated against by his colleagues when he went against dogma beliefs and decided to believe that the abduction experience was real (and had no answer from Orthodox beliefs). He was able to survive the backlash on his career for talking such unorthodox views, but many others who take such a stand do not survive.

      Usually taking unorthodox views means you lose reputation, lose your job and then lose your employability. Thus it pays scientists to go along with the existing beliefs. This has corrupted science, hence as you say the need for the interdisciplinary approach to solve the complexity of the UFO phenomenon. But it has been a manufactured complexity. And because of the conspiracy an interdisciplinary approach will not be allowed. If you look at the evidence then you find conspiracies exist, its just a natural part of human activity of people forming into groups to oppose other groups. A lot of the conspiracy centres around Tesla. He was the greatest scientist of the 19th and 20th century, but you won’t find that in most popular history books, because we are expected to believe a different version of history. If history can be rewritten to cover up the physics side of the UFO solution so easy, then near anything is possible.

      Cheers Roger

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:40 PM
      Subject: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

      Hello from the Southern Hemisphere again,

      --Roger Anderton wrote (quoting my sentence about the UFO phenomenon):

      <<"The reason why "The whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be something a
      single scientific field will resolve." is because all scientific fields have
      been adjusted in an attempt to exclude the relevant answers."

      I disagree. The reason why "the whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be" resolved by a single scientific field is not because a conspiracy or an "adjustment". It is because of its complexity, it need to be faced and studied through different Sciences.

      I am not saying conspiracies do not exist. I am saying that the answer will come from  inter-disciplinary perspective.

      <<"Further he was experimenting with radio long
      before Marconi, and  claimed  that he was picking up aliens on his radio.
      Budden's theorizing leads back to Conspiracy and cover up with Tesla
      Technology, and that leads back to aliens, which Budden does not want to
      believe in."

      Why should he "believe"? He is a genuine researcher of the EM causes for UFOs. There may be other causes rather than EM.

      C. G. Roselli



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    • Frits Westra
      Hello Roger and listers, I ve read two of Budden s books and a few of his articles. It s not my impression that Budden doesn t _want_ to believe in aliens;
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 30 12:03 PM
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        Hello Roger and listers,

        I've read two of Budden's books and a few of his articles. It's not my
        impression that Budden doesn't _want_ to believe in aliens; during his
        research he simply didn't come across any evidence for an alien connection
        in abduction cases.

        The core of his research during the past 20 years, consisted of 50
        abduction cases. Budden claims that he didn't pick these cases himself,
        all cases presented themselves to him. He didn't find evidence for
        extraterrestrial involvement in any of these cases, but he did discover
        various symptoms of electromagnetic hypersensitivity (a form of allergy to
        electromagnetic fields) in _every_one_ of his subjects.

        I think this is remarkable. I also think that it's not wise to draw
        far-reaching conclusions from only 50 cases, although it has to be said
        that his research has been thorough. Then again, Budden's findings are
        pointing us to an aspect of UFO/abduction phenomena that has been ignored
        by most investigators in the past. There is reason to look into this EM
        matter.

        Best regards,
        Frits

        On 29th April 2001, "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...> wrote:

        >Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

        >Dear C. G. Roselli

        >The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does
        >not want to be lieve in aliens, and he does not even want to
        >consider the possibility that aliens are involved, and has
        >closed his mind to that possibility.
      • Roger Anderton
        Hi Frits The alien connection he does not want to consider is via Tesla. The correct physics for the UFO phenomenon is via Tesla, and Tesla thought he might
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2001
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          Hi Frits

          The alien connection he does not want to consider is via Tesla. The correct
          physics for the UFO phenomenon is via Tesla, and Tesla thought he might
          have contacted aliens. And Budden is also being selective about what he will
          consider looking at. The old case of 'I see nothing to disprove my beliefs,
          because I have closed my eyes' - selective censorship sometimes called
          Knowledge Filter - where some of us have beliefs and will only consider
          evidence if it supports those pre- existing beliefs.

          Roger

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Frits Westra <fwestra@...>
          To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:03 PM
          Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science


          > Hello Roger and listers,
          >
          > I've read two of Budden's books and a few of his articles. It's not my
          > impression that Budden doesn't _want_ to believe in aliens; during his
          > research he simply didn't come across any evidence for an alien connection
          > in abduction cases.
          >
          > The core of his research during the past 20 years, consisted of 50
          > abduction cases. Budden claims that he didn't pick these cases himself,
          > all cases presented themselves to him. He didn't find evidence for
          > extraterrestrial involvement in any of these cases, but he did discover
          > various symptoms of electromagnetic hypersensitivity (a form of allergy to
          > electromagnetic fields) in _every_one_ of his subjects.
          >
          > I think this is remarkable. I also think that it's not wise to draw
          > far-reaching conclusions from only 50 cases, although it has to be said
          > that his research has been thorough. Then again, Budden's findings are
          > pointing us to an aspect of UFO/abduction phenomena that has been ignored
          > by most investigators in the past. There is reason to look into this EM
          > matter.
          >
          > Best regards,
          > Frits
          >
          > On 29th April 2001, "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...> wrote:
          >
          > >Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science
          >
          > >Dear C. G. Roselli
          >
          > >The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does
          > >not want to be lieve in aliens, and he does not even want to
          > >consider the possibility that aliens are involved, and has
          > >closed his mind to that possibility.
          >
          >
          > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
          to:
          > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
          > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
          > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
          > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
          >
          > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
          brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
          aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Roger Anderton
          Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream scienceDear C G Roselli ... I am aware of Vallee s theorizing. He thinks of a control system , which is a fairly ambiguous idea, in
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2001
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            Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

            Dear C G Roselli

             

            >>>>>I know scientists like Peter Sturrock, Jacques Vallee, Michael Persinger... to mention some, who have not find any evidence of the "extraterrestrial" hypothesis.
            I am aware of Vallee’s theorizing. He thinks of a ‘control system’, which is a fairly ambiguous idea, in some part related to Carl Jung’s theorizing that we all share a ‘collective unconsciousness’, which means we could all be one organism like an ‘ant colony’ but we are unaware of this because of the delusion of individuality that we have during our conscious lives.
            All of this is of course speculation. But I wonder what we would call such a ‘collective mind’? It would be totally alien to anything I personally was conscious of. To me it would be an Alien. I don’t know what you would call it.
            Vallee and other scientists’ speculations in this area, does not necessarily lead to the ‘collective mind’ idea. Some scientists start to get all religious about the matter and think in terms of God. Now what is God? Something totally alien to humanity? Just another alien as far as I am concerned. I don’t know what you would call it.
            So, some scientists when they speculate as to what is the answer to the UFO Mystery, come up with Exotic Alien ideas. Vallee’s speculations are Exotic Alien ideas. There are lots of such speculating, ranging to ideas that entities come here from another dimension of reality etc., all just Exotic Aliens.
            The ET 1950s B movie idea of some humanoid creature coming here from another planet, is just one of the more simpler alien scenarios.
            >>>>>But publishing ideas in journals or giving lectures is not imposing concepts.
            Certain journals censor ideas, and will only allow certain ideas to be published. These journals then give a biased perspective. As I have already said - Tesla is one of the keys to UFO physics. Ideas associated with him get suppressed.
             
            >>>>>Years ago, the extraterrestrial model was the only way to explain UFOs other than optical ilusions and other debunking attitudes.
            I disagree. My investigations reveal that there has been long term censorship in science, further back than Tesla and science is now built on the wrong foundations.
            The Aliens have the possibility of coming to us via Tesla technology. Tesla technology might be ‘back engineering’. There might have been no physical contact made with aliens, only communication made in the 19th century (or earlier, because Tesla appears to not be the first), with persons unknown then building the unconventional crafts.
            The debunkers merely move to new ground, trying to put up another false idea as dogma, when an old idea falls. Budden’s theorizing is a resurrection of a lot of what has been censored, but minus the bits about aliens. Looks like creating a new falsehood to me to divert mainstream physics once again.
            In the correct history: the Copernican Revolution came about based on heretical religious ideas. Mainstream religion eventually got around to persecuting that heresy and associated heresies, leaving just a part of the physics to struggle on. Eventually Newton made a big break through, working from his belief that he was recovering Ancient Wisdom. Boscovich in the 18th century completed the gaps in Newton’s theory. There were physicists working on these theories until WWII, then physics history was rewritten. I wonder why? Maybe someone was scarred of the Atom bomb technology, and worried at what else the proper physics was capable of.
             
            Roger
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 3:05 PM
            Subject: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science

            Hello Roger,

            original-------------------------------------
             
            Dear C. G. Roselli

            The UFO phenomenon is more than just EM effects. Budden does not want to believe in aliens, and he does not even want to consider the possibility that aliens are involved, and has closed his mind to that possibility. EM effects can do some of the things Budden says, and he wants to believe it is all accidental rather than deliberate.

            There are quite a few people that want to believe that no aliens are involved, and they try to impose that belief on the rest of us. Not accepting a hypothesis without evidence is being scientific. But these people don’t even want to consider certain hypotheses, and refuse to consider the evidence. That is not what I call scientific, but these people try to make out that they are scientific. [snipped] 
            ---------------------------------------------------------------------

            That the UFOs are more than EM is only an affirmation, and not a good reason to leave other ideas out of the game. Neither Budden, nor others, have to believe in aliens or any other reason to investigate UFOs. They just follow a hypothesis line. Let us see what happens. I do not this author enough to affirm his closed mind.

            You said: "...quite a few people that want to believe that no aliens are involved... try to impose that belief on the rest of us..." I know scientists like Peter Sturrock, Jacques Vallee, Michael Persinger... to mention some, who have not find any evidence of the "extraterrestrial" hypothesis. But publishing ideas in journals or giving lectures is not imposing concepts.

            Years ago, the extraterrestrial model was the only way to explain UFOs other than optical ilusions and other debunking attitudes. Let us see what happens with each line of research. Since I am a scientist myself, I see different hypothesis as something good for knowledge.

            CGR.

             

          • kdk44@juno.com
            I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such as Tesla s and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at what happened
            Message 5 of 6 , May 12, 2001
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              I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such
              as Tesla's and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at
              what happened with Dr. John Mack when he published his new theories of
              the Abduction phenomena, Harvard tried to kick him out, he almost had to
              go to court to keep his tenure. Anyone who has a master's degree from a
              University knows that to have a thesis passed and supported, the only way
              you can get a master's degree, is by the approval of a professor.
              Professors are not fond of thesis' presenting new field expanding
              research or theories, the rule seems to be 'support the science already
              there or take a hike'. Not only is it quite evident to anyone that
              Universities suppress science but also the Government. And guess who
              funds alot of University projects? You are right if you answered 'Old
              Sam'.

              If there isn't any suppression of science, then why did Thomas
              Edison get all the credit for electricity, which he stole from Tesla, and
              why is Tesla's name not in the history books. Also, why is it that we
              have to pay for heat and electricity when we could all have free energy
              devices in our backyard? Peace and Love, Sophia
            • Roger Anderton
              Tesla is in the History books, but is not given enough prominence, he is side-lined. As well as political reasons for suppressing much of what Tesla was about,
              Message 6 of 6 , May 31, 2001
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                Tesla is in the History books, but is not given enough prominence, he is
                side-lined.

                As well as political reasons for suppressing much of what Tesla was about,
                there seem also religious reasons.

                A lot of people seem to want to believe in certain things, and suppress
                evidence to the contrary. Tesla's insights into Electromagnetism lead to the
                physics of how telepathy works, and there has been a great deal of effort to
                debunk data from the parapsychologists over the past hundred years on that
                subject. The implications of telepathy being real leads to the other
                paranormal topics being real as well, and Homo Religious wants to believe
                false ideas in such topics.




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <kdk44@...>
                To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: <anseca@...>; <thunderwolf@...>; <watcher1@...>;
                <lakotawan@...>; <phil@...>; <drdonj5219@...>
                Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 2:08 AM
                Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: (Gas Fumes)-mainstream science


                > I think that suppression and repression of the alternative sciences, such
                > as Tesla's and others, is quite evident in our society. Just look at
                > what happened with Dr. John Mack when he published his new theories of
                > the Abduction phenomena, Harvard tried to kick him out, he almost had to
                > go to court to keep his tenure. Anyone who has a master's degree from a
                > University knows that to have a thesis passed and supported, the only way
                > you can get a master's degree, is by the approval of a professor.
                > Professors are not fond of thesis' presenting new field expanding
                > research or theories, the rule seems to be 'support the science already
                > there or take a hike'. Not only is it quite evident to anyone that
                > Universities suppress science but also the Government. And guess who
                > funds alot of University projects? You are right if you answered 'Old
                > Sam'.
                >
                > If there isn't any suppression of science, then why did Thomas
                > Edison get all the credit for electricity, which he stole from Tesla, and
                > why is Tesla's name not in the history books. Also, why is it that we
                > have to pay for heat and electricity when we could all have free energy
                > devices in our backyard? Peace and Love, Sophia
                >
                > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
                to:
                > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
                > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                >
                > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
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