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Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)

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  • S A L
    ... I agree that you must always be open for every hypothesis. ... The diciplines from with the environmental health approach evolved: *EM pollution *Holistic
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 24, 2001
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      >From: "ROSELLI SABATINO, CARLOS GABRIEL" <cgprosellis@...>
      >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
      >To: "'ufonet@yahoogroups.com'" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
      >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:03:21 -0300
      >
      >Yes, I know you did Bart. My message was not directed to your statement
      >specifically. I was trying to point how often we, truth seekers, go tempted
      >by a specific field of study.

      I agree that you must always be open for every hypothesis.

      >The whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be
      >something a single scientific field will resolve.

      The diciplines from with the environmental health approach evolved:
      *EM pollution
      *Holistic medicine and clinical ecology
      *Electromagnetics
      *Bioelectricmagnetics
      *Neurology
      *Psychology
      *Physical geology
      *Meteorology
      *Atmosperic physics
      *Electrical engineering
      (This list is not exhaustive)

      >I also see there is not a
      >single theory today that gives us a good perspective of this problem.

      Budden's suggestions in Electric UFO's gives a good perspective on how you
      can investigate Alien Abductions. I may leed to resolving parts of the UFO
      phenomenon.

      >It's what keeps our search alive.
      >
      >:)
      >
      >Best wishes,
      >Carlos Roselli

      UFOnet is an open, international, free news and *discussion* list.
      I hope this discussion will also be kept alive!

      Thanks for the (last???) comments!
      Bart Meinen.
      _________________________________________________________________________
      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
    • Roger Anderton
      ... engineering ... I agree. If you look at everything that the Establishment rejects and debunks, then it fits within a general overall pattern where it is
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 25, 2001
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        >>>The whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be
        >>>something a single scientific field will resolve.

        >The diciplines from with the environmental health approach evolved:
        >*EM pollution, *Holistic medicine and clinical ecology
        >*Electromagnetics, *Bioelectricmagnetics, *Neurology, *Psychology
        >*Physical geology, *Meteorology, *Atmosperic physics, *Electrical
        engineering
        > (This list is not exhaustive)

        I agree. If you look at everything that the Establishment rejects and
        debunks, then it fits within a general overall pattern where it is pretty
        much that everything we are expected to believe from Mainstream Science is
        nonsense.
        Part of Budden's theorizing lies on Electromagnetism have more effects than
        accepted by Mainstream Science. If you look into that issue then you find
        the Genius behind nearly all our Electrical devices, has not properly
        given the credited he deserved : Nikola Tesla. And Tesla made a lot of
        extraordinary claims about what you could do with electricity, that have
        been covered up Big business interests. He gave lectures about Anti gravity
        air craft from 1891 to 1893. Further he was experimenting with radio long
        before Marconi, and claimed that he was picking up aliens on his radio.
        Budden's theorizing leads back to Conspiracy and cover up with Tesla
        Technology, and that leads back to aliens, which Budden does not want to
        believe in.

        The reason why "The whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be something a
        single scientific field will resolve." is because all scientific fields have
        been adjusted in an attempt to exclude the relevant answers.



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: S A L <anthropoid_study@...>
        To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:12 PM
        Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


        > >From: "ROSELLI SABATINO, CARLOS GABRIEL" <cgprosellis@...>
        > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: "'ufonet@yahoogroups.com'" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
        > >Subject: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
        > >Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:03:21 -0300
        > >
        > >Yes, I know you did Bart. My message was not directed to your statement
        > >specifically. I was trying to point how often we, truth seekers, go
        tempted
        > >by a specific field of study.
        >
        > I agree that you must always be open for every hypothesis.
        >
        > >The whole UFO phenomenon does not seem to be
        > >something a single scientific field will resolve.
        >
        > The diciplines from with the environmental health approach evolved:
        > *EM pollution
        > *Holistic medicine and clinical ecology
        > *Electromagnetics
        > *Bioelectricmagnetics
        > *Neurology
        > *Psychology
        > *Physical geology
        > *Meteorology
        > *Atmosperic physics
        > *Electrical engineering
        > (This list is not exhaustive)
        >
        > >I also see there is not a
        > >single theory today that gives us a good perspective of this problem.
        >
        > Budden's suggestions in Electric UFO's gives a good perspective on how you
        > can investigate Alien Abductions. I may leed to resolving parts of the UFO
        > phenomenon.
        >
        > >It's what keeps our search alive.
        > >
        > >:)
        > >
        > >Best wishes,
        > >Carlos Roselli
        >
      • S A L
        ... That s also why I like Budden s theorizing , it opens door for science but doesn t close the door to aliens. -- Bart Meinen The Study of Anthropoid Life
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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          >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
          >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
          >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:51:10 +0100

          >Budden's theorizing leads back to Conspiracy and cover up with Tesla
          >Technology, and that leads back to aliens, which Budden does not want >to
          >believe in.

          That's also why I like "Budden's theorizing", it opens door for science but
          doesn't close the door to aliens.

          --
          Bart Meinen
          The Study of Anthropoid Life forms (SAL)
          URL: http://home.hetnet.nl/~wc/index2.html
          _________________________________________________________________________
          Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
        • Roger Anderton
          I disagree he s trying to close doors, but see other e-mail Roger ... From: S A L To: Sent: Thursday,
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 29, 2001
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            I disagree he's trying to close doors, but see other e-mail

            Roger

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: S A L <anthropoid_study@...>
            To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:09 PM
            Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


            > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
            > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
            > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
            > >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:51:10 +0100
            >
            > >Budden's theorizing leads back to Conspiracy and cover up with Tesla
            > >Technology, and that leads back to aliens, which Budden does not want >to
            > >believe in.
            >
            > That's also why I like "Budden's theorizing", it opens door for science
            but
            > doesn't close the door to aliens.
            >
            > --
            > Bart Meinen
            > The Study of Anthropoid Life forms (SAL)
            > URL: http://home.hetnet.nl/~wc/index2.html
            > _________________________________________________________________________
            > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
            >
            >
            > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
            to:
            > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
            > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
            > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
            > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
            > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
            > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
            >
            > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
            brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
            aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • S A L
            I agree that while Budden is opening the door to science he is trying to close the door to aliens. But do you realy think that science will actualy succed in
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 30, 2001
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              I agree that while Budden is opening the door to science he is trying to
              close the door to aliens.

              But do you realy think that science will actualy succed in shutting the
              "alien-door" and keeping it shut?

              Bart Meinen.

              >----- Original Message -----
              >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
              >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
              >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:05:10 +0100
              >
              >I disagree he's trying to close doors, but see other e-mail
              >
              >Roger
              _________________________________________________________________________
              Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
            • Roger Anderton
              ... From: S A L To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:36 AM Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last
              Message 6 of 9 , May 1 12:08 PM
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: S A L <anthropoid_study@...>
                To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:36 AM
                Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


                >
                > I agree that while Budden is opening the door to science he is trying to
                > close the door to aliens.
                >
                > But do you realy think that science will actualy succed in shutting the
                > "alien-door" and keeping it shut?
                >
                > Bart Meinen.
                >
                > >----- Original Message -----
                > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
                > >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:05:10 +0100
                > >
                > >I disagree he's trying to close doors, but see other e-mail
                > >
                > >Roger
                > _________________________________________________________________________
                > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                >
                >
                > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
                to:
                > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
                > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                >
                > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Roger Anderton
                Hi Bart Its done a very good job of doing that up to now. Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole is not geared up to
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2 8:17 AM
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                  Hi Bart

                  Its done a very good job of doing that up to now.

                  Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole
                  is not geared up to accepting it.

                  Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound effects
                  on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance, imagine
                  what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me, it
                  was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."

                  At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution calls
                  for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan. And the expert
                  says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."
                  Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.

                  If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
                  they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
                  easily be rejected.

                  The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society would
                  collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
                  suppressed at all costs no matter what. Ideally science should be allowed to
                  look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea. But in the case of this
                  idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea. Society would have to be
                  structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory would
                  be acceptable. Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
                  needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
                  excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.

                  Cheers Roger



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: S A L <anthropoid_study@...>
                  To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:36 AM
                  Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


                  >
                  > I agree that while Budden is opening the door to science he is trying to
                  > close the door to aliens.
                  >
                  > But do you realy think that science will actualy succed in shutting the
                  > "alien-door" and keeping it shut?
                  >
                  > Bart Meinen.
                  >
                  > >----- Original Message -----
                  > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                  > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
                  > >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:05:10 +0100
                  > >
                  > >I disagree he's trying to close doors, but see other e-mail
                  > >
                  > >Roger
                  > _________________________________________________________________________
                  > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                  >
                  >
                  > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list dedicated
                  to:
                  > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                  > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                  > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
                  > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                  >
                  > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                  brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                  aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • S A L
                  ... Hi Roger ... I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens. But like you illustrated so well in your court example: Society as a
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 4 2:49 AM
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                    >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                    >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
                    >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:17:07 +0100
                    >
                    >Hi Bart

                    Hi Roger

                    <snip>
                    >Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a whole
                    >is not geared up to accepting it.

                    I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens.
                    But like you illustrated so well in your court example:
                    Society as a whole is not constucted to cope with aliens here on Earth.
                    Scientificly there is a big difference in the chance aliens excists and the
                    chance that they are here on Earth.

                    >Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound effects
                    >on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance,
                    >imagine
                    >what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me,
                    >it
                    >was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."

                    I think the defence would lable the person as mental ill, probably having a
                    multiple personality syndrome.

                    >At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution calls
                    >for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan.

                    Dr. Carl Sagan was an astronomer and he has giffen his personal (not
                    professional) opinion on the subject "Aliens here on Earth".
                    The subject has nothing to do with astronomy (accept for the mentioned
                    change calculation).
                    Because Sagan discussed the subject often and did research on the subject he
                    was an expert on Aliens, just as Erich von Daeniken is.
                    Sagan is assumed more credible than Von Daeniken, because Sagan was a
                    scientist.

                    >And the expert
                    >says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."

                    That's the personal opinion of the expert.

                    >Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.
                    >
                    >If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
                    >they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
                    >easily be rejected.

                    But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable doubt,
                    science don't.

                    >The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society would
                    >collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
                    >suppressed at all costs no matter what.

                    Untill there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
                    Hypothesis (ETH).

                    >Ideally science should be allowed to
                    >look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea.

                    Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
                    ETH.

                    >But in the case of this
                    >idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.

                    So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
                    etc.) is a health threat.

                    >Society would have to be
                    >structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory
                    >would
                    >be acceptable.

                    ETH is still a hypothesis, not a theory.

                    >Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
                    >needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
                    >excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.

                    There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in studying
                    the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
                    Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.

                    >Cheers Roger

                    Where is the Guinness?
                    :o)
                    Bart Meinen.
                    _________________________________________________________________________
                    Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
                  • Roger Anderton
                    Hi Bart ... doubt, science don t. Science works by assumptions as well, just tries to hide them. ... Hypothesis (ETH). I have no idea what that evidence could
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 1, 2001
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                      Hi Bart


                      >>>>But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable
                      doubt,
                      science don't.

                      Science works by assumptions as well, just tries to hide them.
                      >>>>Until there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
                      Hypothesis (ETH).

                      I have no idea what that evidence could be. Surely we have been given amble
                      evidence that everything can be debunked?

                      >>>Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
                      ETH.

                      That framework has been suppressed.

                      > [But in the case of this idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.]
                      So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
                      etc.) is a health threat.

                      Correct. Health issues, aliens, etc., all tie together in a complete package
                      that has to be suppressed by the needs of certain people in Society.
                      A big difference between Sagan's personal opinion (that aliens are not
                      here) and Daniken's personal opinion (that aliens are here) is that Sagan
                      and Society likes to pretend that this first opinion is scientific and the
                      other opinion is not scientific, but they place their belief in this opinion
                      from faith and not from evidence.

                      >>>>There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in
                      studying
                      the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
                      An expectation created because of Cover - Up

                      >>Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.

                      In other words changing the expectation is suppressing one possibility from
                      being considered i.e. if it is successful then its Cover - up . IF you have
                      two theories A and B, and you are only allowed to consider theory A as the
                      answer to some phenomenon, then theory B has not been put to a proper test.
                      Saying theory A answers most of the mystery of the phenomenon under question
                      does not mean that theory A fits as the complete answer to that phenomenon.
                      It is a lie to think that the scientific method should be to consider only
                      one theory and suppress other contenders, but in UFO related subjects -
                      science allows itself to lie.

                      Cheers Roger
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "S A L" <anthropoid_study@...>
                      To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:49 AM
                      Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)


                      > >From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                      > >Reply-To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >Subject: Re: UFOnet: RE: Gasoline Fumes (last comments)
                      > >Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:17:07 +0100
                      > >
                      > >Hi Bart
                      >
                      > Hi Roger
                      >
                      > <snip>
                      > >Some individuals might be able to cope with aliens, but Society as a
                      whole
                      > >is not geared up to accepting it.
                      >
                      > I think most people believe UFOs have something to do with aliens.
                      > But like you illustrated so well in your court example:
                      > Society as a whole is not constucted to cope with aliens here on Earth.
                      > Scientificly there is a big difference in the chance aliens excists and
                      the
                      > chance that they are here on Earth.
                      >
                      > >Society on the whole assumes there are no aliens, this has profound
                      effects
                      > >on everything which our society has built itself upon. For instance,
                      > >imagine
                      > >what would happen in the law courts if the accused claimed "it wasn't me,
                      > >it
                      > >was some 'evil alien clone copy of me' that done it."
                      >
                      > I think the defence would lable the person as mental ill, probably having
                      a
                      > multiple personality syndrome.
                      >
                      > >At the moment, such claims are laughed out of court. The prosecution
                      calls
                      > >for an expert on Aliens such as it once did with Carl Sagan.
                      >
                      > Dr. Carl Sagan was an astronomer and he has giffen his personal (not
                      > professional) opinion on the subject "Aliens here on Earth".
                      > The subject has nothing to do with astronomy (accept for the mentioned
                      > change calculation).
                      > Because Sagan discussed the subject often and did research on the subject
                      he
                      > was an expert on Aliens, just as Erich von Daeniken is.
                      > Sagan is assumed more credible than Von Daeniken, because Sagan was a
                      > scientist.
                      >
                      > >And the expert
                      > >says "aliens don't exist, and if they did exist they couldn't get here."
                      >
                      > That's the personal opinion of the expert.
                      >
                      > >Reassured the accused's claims are dismissed.
                      > >
                      > >If the assumption was accepted that aliens were here, then who knows what
                      > >they could be capable of. The accused's most bizarre claims could not so
                      > >easily be rejected.
                      >
                      > But keep in mind: courts work with assumptions to create reasonable doubt,
                      > science don't.
                      >
                      > >The Law Courts would become a bigger farce than they are now. Society
                      would
                      > >collapse. Out of necessity, the "aliens are here" hypothesis must be
                      > >suppressed at all costs no matter what.
                      >
                      > Untill there is scientific evidence that supports the Extraterrestrial
                      > Hypothesis (ETH).
                      >
                      > >Ideally science should be allowed to
                      > >look with an open mind at the evidence for any idea.
                      >
                      > Unfortunately science still hasn't come up with a framework to study the
                      > ETH.
                      >
                      > >But in the case of this
                      > >idea, it is politically an unacceptable idea.
                      >
                      > So is Buddens idea that electromagnetism (from power lines, mobile phones,
                      > etc.) is a health threat.
                      >
                      > >Society would have to be
                      > >structured completely different to what it is now before such a theory
                      > >would
                      > >be acceptable.
                      >
                      > ETH is still a hypothesis, not a theory.
                      >
                      > >Science is restrained by socio- economic- politico- religious
                      > >needs and has always been so constrained, hence there has been such an
                      > >excellent cover -up: it is in most peoples' best interest to cover it up.
                      >
                      > There is still no career or major scientific discovery expected in
                      studying
                      > the UFO phenomenon scientificly.
                      > Keeping aliens out of the subject, means changing that expectation.
                      >
                      > >Cheers Roger
                      >
                      > Where is the Guinness?
                      > :o)
                      > Bart Meinen.
                      > _________________________________________________________________________
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