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Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?

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  • Peter Johnson
    So tell us where do we get these crystals in question? Peter Johnson AUFORN S.A. ... From: Don Bennett To: ufonet@egroups.com Sent: Sunday, 3 September 2000
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 3, 2000
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      So tell us where do we get these crystals in question?
      Peter Johnson
      AUFORN S.A.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, 3 September 2000 6:20
      Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


          Roger, we're on the same wavelength on this one.  One place where I chose to interpret differently was Vallee's "control system."  If you read the context carefully, especially the example about finding a pattern of rocks in the desert and if you move one of the rocks a little guy pops out from behind a bush and yells at you, I interpreted Vallee's "control system" to mean a "feedback control system" like a house heating and air conditioning system controlled by a thermostat.  If you leave it alone it responds to the outside temperature to keep the indoor temperature at the setting on the thermostat, and you can change that setting.  However, there are other ways to intervene.  You can open a window.  You can light a candle and hold it under the thermostat.  You can pack the thermostat in ice.  Any one of these will elicit a response from the control system.  All you have to do is figure out what the control system is responding to; in the case of the example: temperature. 
          Many years ago I conducted a sociological experiment to test that thesis.  I had observed since 1963 that in every case I heard of in which a UFO was seen by someone who had the presence of mind to think a reasonable request at it, the UFO immediately complied.  There was an FBI agent who was a guest on the David Letterman Show who told of seeing a disc hover low over his car while he was on vacation.  Remarking that since he was an FBI agent, he wasn't afraid, he stopped the car, got out, looked up at the 35-foot disc that was hovering 50 feet over his head and thought at it that "I would like to see more of you."  Instantly, the UFO did a slow roll, displaying every square inch of itself to his view.  Another example: A musician who advertised in the LA Times for UFO info told me he was on Lookout Mountain overlooking El Toro Marine Base in Orange County, Calif. when an orange light flew by.  As it drew opposite his vantage point, he thought at it "If you're a spacecraft, hover."  It instantly stopped and hovered for a few seconds before resuming it's flight.  I read in Michael X. Barton's "Venusian Secret-Science" that one could buy a "Telolith" crystal, tune it to your telepathic frequency and communicate with Flying Saucers.  The address for purchase and tuning instructions were included.  I did, and sent this message "I am presently (1963) working on manned interplanetary operations (Apollo), so I know what's involved, so I won't be disappointed if nothing happens, but if it is convenient for you guys, I would like a flyover at two o'clock tomorrow morning when nobody else is around to verify that this thing works."  At 1:45 AM I went outside.  At exactly 2 AM the neighbors across the street came home.  (Somebody else was around) They opened the garage, turned on every light in the house, put the station wagon in the garage and started turning off the lights.  At 2:05 the last light went out and the ship went right over my head.  In 1981 I crafted the sociological experiment.  I invented "The Astrolitic Legation" as my way of volunteering my services here on Earth to "The Astrolites" a made-up name for whoever is in Flying Saucers responding to telepathic contacts from humans.  I wrote an "Invitation to Contact" letter giving instructions for making a telepathic request to the UFOs for a prearranged UFO flyover as a demonstration of telepathic contact.  I bought a mailing list of 1000 people, world-wide, who had bought UFO related books.  I printed 1000 copies of the letter and mailed them world-wide.  No hint of what they might see was included, but I soon received flyover reports from all over the world, describing the same thing I had seen.
          It is a control system, but you can control it.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
      To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
      Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:35 PM
      Subject: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?



      UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
      UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
      Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
      To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
      ufonet-subscribe@egroups.com
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      URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
      Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...

      Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!

    • Roger Anderton
      Don , very interesting. Vallee s control system in this scenario would mean something like Jung s collective unconsciousness: everyone s unconsciousness
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 4, 2000
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        Don , very interesting.

        Vallee’s control system in this scenario would mean something like Jung’s collective unconsciousness: everyone’s unconsciousness connected by some sort of telepathy. The unconscious has difficulty in communicating with the conscious mind and deals in symbology such as in dreams. This scenario would be a sharing of a dream-like state between people through ESP.

        Unfortunately we have no mechanism from orthodox science as to how telepathy would work, so information received by such means would be very dubious. To set up such a mechanism from orthodox science requires the breaking of too many existing beliefs within that science.

        If an alternative science were developed along ESP lines, would we be able to cope with it? i.e. would we be able to take a collective belief system change along these lines, or would we prefer existing beliefs?

         

        Some parapsychologists conclude that certain people would not be able to cope with ESP being real, e.g. Exploring the Paranormal edited by Drs. Zollschan, Schumaker and Walsh, Prism Press 1989 p 310 : Harvey J Irwin says ".... it would appear that for the sceptics the existence of the paranormal is unacceptable very largely for emotional reasons. The parapsychology debate therefore is confounded not only by gullible superstitiousness but by prejudicial fear as well... It is unlikely .. that sceptics would have the inclination to work through this fear: with some notable exceptions, sceptics to date have shown little real concern to maintain an objective and evenhanded perspective in their dealing with parapsychology."

         

        Is it because we cannot cope with a science with ESP that we have excluded looking at that type of data, and built existing science on a different path? Another case of scientists acting in the same manner as portrayed in Temple’s Crystal Sun: exclude certain types of data, build up a science on only one type of data to form a framework theory, then proclaim no evidence for ESP and it does not fit with science theory. When really they have not looked for a science theory that includes ESP. A case of the scientific ‘ideal’ not being adhered to. The type of science we create, might be dependent upon human weaknesses in what we are able to cope with. A curious possible psychological corruption of science imposed by human nature.

        Why are the people who believe in such phenomenon, wasting their time arguing with sceptics, when they could be building their own framework theory?

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 9:50 PM
        Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


            Roger, we're on the same wavelength on this one.  One place where I chose to interpret differently was Vallee's "control system."  If you read the context carefully, especially the example about finding a pattern of rocks in the desert and if you move one of the rocks a little guy pops out from behind a bush and yells at you, I interpreted Vallee's "control system" to mean a "feedback control system" like a house heating and air conditioning system controlled by a thermostat.  If you leave it alone it responds to the outside temperature to keep the indoor temperature at the setting on the thermostat, and you can change that setting.  However, there are other ways to intervene.  You can open a window.  You can light a candle and hold it under the thermostat.  You can pack the thermostat in ice.  Any one of these will elicit a response from the control system.  All you have to do is figure out what the control system is responding to; in the case of the example: temperature. 
            Many years ago I conducted a sociological experiment to test that thesis.  I had observed since 1963 that in every case I heard of in which a UFO was seen by someone who had the presence of mind to think a reasonable request at it, the UFO immediately complied.  There was an FBI agent who was a guest on the David Letterman Show who told of seeing a disc hover low over his car while he was on vacation.  Remarking that since he was an FBI agent, he wasn't afraid, he stopped the car, got out, looked up at the 35-foot disc that was hovering 50 feet over his head and thought at it that "I would like to see more of you."  Instantly, the UFO did a slow roll, displaying every square inch of itself to his view.  Another example: A musician who advertised in the LA Times for UFO info told me he was on Lookout Mountain overlooking El Toro Marine Base in Orange County, Calif. when an orange light flew by.  As it drew opposite his vantage point, he thought at it "If you're a spacecraft, hover."  It instantly stopped and hovered for a few seconds before resuming it's flight.  I read in Michael X. Barton's "Venusian Secret-Science" that one could buy a "Telolith" crystal, tune it to your telepathic frequency and communicate with Flying Saucers.  The address for purchase and tuning instructions were included.  I did, and sent this message "I am presently (1963) working on manned interplanetary operations (Apollo), so I know what's involved, so I won't be disappointed if nothing happens, but if it is convenient for you guys, I would like a flyover at two o'clock tomorrow morning when nobody else is around to verify that this thing works."  At 1:45 AM I went outside.  At exactly 2 AM the neighbors across the street came home.  (Somebody else was around) They opened the garage, turned on every light in the house, put the station wagon in the garage and started turning off the lights.  At 2:05 the last light went out and the ship went right over my head.  In 1981 I crafted the sociological experiment.  I invented "The Astrolitic Legation" as my way of volunteering my services here on Earth to "The Astrolites" a made-up name for whoever is in Flying Saucers responding to telepathic contacts from humans.  I wrote an "Invitation to Contact" letter giving instructions for making a telepathic request to the UFOs for a prearranged UFO flyover as a demonstration of telepathic contact.  I bought a mailing list of 1000 people, world-wide, who had bought UFO related books.  I printed 1000 copies of the letter and mailed them world-wide.  No hint of what they might see was included, but I soon received flyover reports from all over the world, describing the same thing I had seen.
            It is a control system, but you can control it.

      • Philip J Crocker
        Hi Don, I was fascinated by your experiments in attempting to verify Jacques Vallee s control system as operated by the UFO phenomenon. I read in Paul R
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 5, 2000
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          Hi Don,
          I was fascinated by your experiments in attempting to verify Jacques Vallee's control system' as operated by the UFO phenomenon. I read in Paul R Hill's book 'Unconventional Flying Objects' that one of the unexplored aspects of UFO sightings, is the repeatability of the event, that certain contactees have noticed if an event is witnessed at a certain location, time and place, that the event is often repeated at the same location and time the next day. Thereafter the phenomenon is subtly altered to involve the contactee to a greater degree, a sort of ratchet effect, which gradually escalates the personal involvement. (perhaps the eventual purpose becomes similar to Adamski or Meiyer). Your experiment would appear to confirm that the level of contact being offered is a highly personal one, tailored to the individual. I have often wondered if a sighting only leads to physical or mental contact if the individual wants it to be so, even on a sub-conscious level. Perhaps the first sighting contains both conscious and sub-conscious imaging on a fundamental level and that this either 'takes' or does not.
          I cant help but consider a sort of sophisticated 'lure' is being used such as exhibited in nature by creatures that use the lure to feed or reproduce, such as certain deep sea fish, that have a bioluminescent light on a long wand overhanging the massive jaws. In the absolute dark of the deep ocean, to other fish such a single light may mean a mate or food and is attracted to the light, the unfortunate 'luree' only discovers its mistake as the jaws snap closed.
          There is evidently a much more sophisticated system operated by the UFO phenomenon, but I ask myself, just how far removed is the eventual aim of the lurer? is it entirely altruistic? Is the ultimate purpose some kind of symbiotic relationship or are we all ready in that position that the control system is simply the operating system.
          The UFO phenomenon seems perfectly happy to remain in the background and indeed exhibits every sign of using the most elaborate means to conceal itself in guises that are designed to render its image laughable or defy rational explanation, and yet it contains this evident lure, a 'come-on' that we must follow.
          This I feel is quite deliberate.
          I recall a book on insects that imitate others such as flies that chemically imitate the larvae of bees, the pregnant female enters a bees nest, but remains unmolested because of a chemical disguise such that it seems to the bee colony that its just another bee.The fly then finds the larvae nursery and lays a single egg in an empty cell.the female then leaves. The egg hatches and is fed like any other bee larvae, it smells and acts like a bee larvae, even when it grows to enormous size and starts eating genuine bee larvae the bee workers duly feed their cuckoo fly. The fly then matures and eats its way out of the nest to mate and start the cycle again.
          There was another far more fascinating example of such behaviour, this was the 'slaver ant'. These insects are remarkable in that it consists of only a queen, drones, and soldiers, no workers. The queen having mated, finds a hole close to a 'normal' ants nest, and, like any other queen ant, then forms a chamber and proceeds to lay eggs, however, these eggs mature into larvae which develop only into soldiers. These soldiers have unusually large heads with enormous mandibles, but they have a far more subtle weapon at their disposal; a chemical armoury of remarkable effectiveness. When the slaver colony reaches sufficient numbers, it sends out scouts to survey the area. When a nearby 'normal' ants nest is found, a raiding party is sent out. Naturally the defending ants immediately summon their soldiers and a fight ensues. However the slavers are stronger, their jaws slice through the heads of the defending ants, only sheer weight of numbers can save the day for the defenders. For a while the defenders mob the fewer invaders and start to drive the invaders away. The invaders then play their trump card. Chemicals are released that make the defending ants sense that their own soldiers are enemies! The unfortunate defenders begin to fight amongst themselves instead of fighting the invaders. The invading ants relieved of the one factor that could defeat them, then fight their way to the centre of the nest and begin to abduct workers. These workers are taken to their own nest and presented to the queen. She has her own arsenal of chemical weapons, and doses the foreign workers with one that makes them think that she is 'their' queen and they promptly go to work for her as if nothing was amiss. These workers get none of the benefits of belonging to a regular nest and soon die.The slavers then need to replenish their supply of workers, if the slavers were to raid the same nest, it would soon sicken and die, and the potential source of workers would dry up, so the slavers regularly visit other nests. I recall the entomologists studied the raiding patterns of the slavers and were surprised to discover a circular shaped zone which was harvested in an organised segmental fan pattern. This was operated in such a way that no one host nest was unduly stressed, until the next time its segment came into the pattern.
          Now I am not proposing that the UFO phenomenon represents giant fish lures or slaver aliens feeding upon human nests or indeed stealing its workers, but I am suggesting that the control system represents a behaviour modifying element that is not entirely altruistic, and seems to contain what I have begun to call the ga-ga factor in that contactees and abductees in particular seem to have come under both psychological and chemical conditioning not dissimilar to brainwashing techniques. their surpressed recollection of the event, physical or not, exhibits confusion and contradictions to a degree where the actual events that took place may well have become so well hidden that there may be only hints of the true actions and consequences pertaining.
          I ask myself how the stolen ant worker would see the events of its abduction if it had the capacity to do so?
          I also ask myself how such a control system has benefited the human race and how would we be if we were not locked in such a system of feedback and interference?
          I used to ask myself, 'what do the pilots or controllers of the UFO's do in their spare time?, do they sleep? do they get tired and have bad days?, do they suddenly get caught short and have to rush off to the nearest bathroom? do they get things wrong, make mistakes (crash UFO's), have arguments with the boss?'.
          I now believe that none of the above takes place, because what we are allowed to perceive is only the 'cover story' and that there are many elements that are deliberately (and necessarily) hidden from view. What we see is tailored to our prejudices and concepts of 'normality'.
          I believe as Vallee does, that the UFO phenomenon is only part of a control system that strays into religion, mythology, folklore and beyond into the nature of reality itself, and that we may only have begun to peep through the curtains at the true nature of what it is that lures us.
           
          Phil Crocker
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: 02 September 2000 21:50
          Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


              Roger, we're on the same wavelength on this one.  One place where I chose to interpret differently was Vallee's "control system."  If you read the context carefully, especially the example about finding a pattern of rocks in the desert and if you move one of the rocks a little guy pops out from behind a bush and yells at you, I interpreted Vallee's "control system" to mean a "feedback control system" like a house heating and air conditioning system controlled by a thermostat.  If you leave it alone it responds to the outside temperature to keep the indoor temperature at the setting on the thermostat, and you can change that setting.  However, there are other ways to intervene.  You can open a window.  You can light a candle and hold it under the thermostat.  You can pack the thermostat in ice.  Any one of these will elicit a response from the control system.  All you have to do is figure out what the control system is responding to; in the case of the example: temperature. 
              Many years ago I conducted a sociological experiment to test that thesis.  I had observed since 1963 that in every case I heard of in which a UFO was seen by someone who had the presence of mind to think a reasonable request at it, the UFO immediately complied.  There was an FBI agent who was a guest on the David Letterman Show who told of seeing a disc hover low over his car while he was on vacation.  Remarking that since he was an FBI agent, he wasn't afraid, he stopped the car, got out, looked up at the 35-foot disc that was hovering 50 feet over his head and thought at it that "I would like to see more of you."  Instantly, the UFO did a slow roll, displaying every square inch of itself to his view.  Another example: A musician who advertised in the LA Times for UFO info told me he was on Lookout Mountain overlooking El Toro Marine Base in Orange County, Calif. when an orange light flew by.  As it drew opposite his vantage point, he thought at it "If you're a spacecraft, hover."  It instantly stopped and hovered for a few seconds before resuming it's flight.  I read in Michael X. Barton's "Venusian Secret-Science" that one could buy a "Telolith" crystal, tune it to your telepathic frequency and communicate with Flying Saucers.  The address for purchase and tuning instructions were included.  I did, and sent this message "I am presently (1963) working on manned interplanetary operations (Apollo), so I know what's involved, so I won't be disappointed if nothing happens, but if it is convenient for you guys, I would like a flyover at two o'clock tomorrow morning when nobody else is around to verify that this thing works."  At 1:45 AM I went outside.  At exactly 2 AM the neighbors across the street came home.  (Somebody else was around) They opened the garage, turned on every light in the house, put the station wagon in the garage and started turning off the lights.  At 2:05 the last light went out and the ship went right over my head.  In 1981 I crafted the sociological experiment.  I invented "The Astrolitic Legation" as my way of volunteering my services here on Earth to "The Astrolites" a made-up name for whoever is in Flying Saucers responding to telepathic contacts from humans.  I wrote an "Invitation to Contact" letter giving instructions for making a telepathic request to the UFOs for a prearranged UFO flyover as a demonstration of telepathic contact.  I bought a mailing list of 1000 people, world-wide, who had bought UFO related books.  I printed 1000 copies of the letter and mailed them world-wide.  No hint of what they might see was included, but I soon received flyover reports from all over the world, describing the same thing I had seen.
              It is a control system, but you can control it.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
          To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
          Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:35 PM
          Subject: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?



          UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
          UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
          Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
          To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-subscribe@egroups.com
          To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-unsubscribe@egroups.com

          URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
          Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...

          Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!

        • Don Bennett
          To Philip J. Crocker Not the same Doctor Crocker I knew as a classmate in Chemistry class in Burdick Jr. High School, Stamford Connecticut? I suppose not.
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 5, 2000
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            To Philip J. Crocker
            Not the same "Doctor" Crocker I knew as a classmate in Chemistry class in Burdick Jr. High School, Stamford Connecticut?  I suppose not.  Thank you for your recitation in defense of the local taboos.  Flyovers are not repeated on demand; that would be a violation of the Security Protocol implicit in The Captain's remark to Nebraska State Highway Patrolman Herbert Schirmer; "Landings are made at random."  If any pattern were followed except random, the US Government would find out what the pattern was via computers and be there at the next landing with Major Military Force.  There was a further development after the "Astrolitic Legation" experiment which involved my promotion from "Secretary of the Legation" which means the guy who mails the letters to "Delegate."  (look it up)  e-mail me at dpbennett@... and I'll send you a copy of that story.  My main job right now involves testing working models of Alien Technology.  Instead of sending the Black Helicopters to abduct me, top people at Secret labs have been most cooperative.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Philip J Crocker <PHILJCROCK@...>
            To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 2:07 AM
            Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


            Hi Don,
            I was fascinated by your experiments in attempting to verify Jacques Vallee's control system' as operated by the UFO phenomenon. I read in Paul R Hill's book 'Unconventional Flying Objects' that one of the unexplored aspects of UFO sightings, is the repeatability of the event, that certain contactees have noticed if an event is witnessed at a certain location, time and place, that the event is often repeated at the same location and time the next day. Thereafter the phenomenon is subtly altered to involve the contactee to a greater degree, a sort of ratchet effect, which gradually escalates the personal involvement. (perhaps the eventual purpose becomes similar to Adamski or Meiyer). Your experiment would appear to confirm that the level of contact being offered is a highly personal one, tailored to the individual. I have often wondered if a sighting only leads to physical or mental contact if the individual wants it to be so, even on a sub-conscious level. Perhaps the first sighting contains both conscious and sub-conscious imaging on a fundamental level and that this either 'takes' or does not.
            I cant help but consider a sort of sophisticated 'lure' is being used such as exhibited in nature by creatures that use the lure to feed or reproduce, such as certain deep sea fish, that have a bioluminescent light on a long wand overhanging the massive jaws. In the absolute dark of the deep ocean, to other fish such a single light may mean a mate or food and is attracted to the light, the unfortunate 'luree' only discovers its mistake as the jaws snap closed.
            There is evidently a much more sophisticated system operated by the UFO phenomenon, but I ask myself, just how far removed is the eventual aim of the lurer? is it entirely altruistic? Is the ultimate purpose some kind of symbiotic relationship or are we all ready in that position that the control system is simply the operating system.
            The UFO phenomenon seems perfectly happy to remain in the background and indeed exhibits every sign of using the most elaborate means to conceal itself in guises that are designed to render its image laughable or defy rational explanation, and yet it contains this evident lure, a 'come-on' that we must follow.
            This I feel is quite deliberate.
            I recall a book on insects that imitate others such as flies that chemically imitate the larvae of bees, the pregnant female enters a bees nest, but remains unmolested because of a chemical disguise such that it seems to the bee colony that its just another bee.The fly then finds the larvae nursery and lays a single egg in an empty cell.the female then leaves. The egg hatches and is fed like any other bee larvae, it smells and acts like a bee larvae, even when it grows to enormous size and starts eating genuine bee larvae the bee workers duly feed their cuckoo fly. The fly then matures and eats its way out of the nest to mate and start the cycle again.
            There was another far more fascinating example of such behaviour, this was the 'slaver ant'. These insects are remarkable in that it consists of only a queen, drones, and soldiers, no workers. The queen having mated, finds a hole close to a 'normal' ants nest, and, like any other queen ant, then forms a chamber and proceeds to lay eggs, however, these eggs mature into larvae which develop only into soldiers. These soldiers have unusually large heads with enormous mandibles, but they have a far more subtle weapon at their disposal; a chemical armoury of remarkable effectiveness. When the slaver colony reaches sufficient numbers, it sends out scouts to survey the area. When a nearby 'normal' ants nest is found, a raiding party is sent out. Naturally the defending ants immediately summon their soldiers and a fight ensues. However the slavers are stronger, their jaws slice through the heads of the defending ants, only sheer weight of numbers can save the day for the defenders. For a while the defenders mob the fewer invaders and start to drive the invaders away. The invaders then play their trump card. Chemicals are released that make the defending ants sense that their own soldiers are enemies! The unfortunate defenders begin to fight amongst themselves instead of fighting the invaders. The invading ants relieved of the one factor that could defeat them, then fight their way to the centre of the nest and begin to abduct workers. These workers are taken to their own nest and presented to the queen. She has her own arsenal of chemical weapons, and doses the foreign workers with one that makes them think that she is 'their' queen and they promptly go to work for her as if nothing was amiss. These workers get none of the benefits of belonging to a regular nest and soon die.The slavers then need to replenish their supply of workers, if the slavers were to raid the same nest, it would soon sicken and die, and the potential source of workers would dry up, so the slavers regularly visit other nests. I recall the entomologists studied the raiding patterns of the slavers and were surprised to discover a circular shaped zone which was harvested in an organised segmental fan pattern. This was operated in such a way that no one host nest was unduly stressed, until the next time its segment came into the pattern.
            Now I am not proposing that the UFO phenomenon represents giant fish lures or slaver aliens feeding upon human nests or indeed stealing its workers, but I am suggesting that the control system represents a behaviour modifying element that is not entirely altruistic, and seems to contain what I have begun to call the ga-ga factor in that contactees and abductees in particular seem to have come under both psychological and chemical conditioning not dissimilar to brainwashing techniques. their surpressed recollection of the event, physical or not, exhibits confusion and contradictions to a degree where the actual events that took place may well have become so well hidden that there may be only hints of the true actions and consequences pertaining.
            I ask myself how the stolen ant worker would see the events of its abduction if it had the capacity to do so?
            I also ask myself how such a control system has benefited the human race and how would we be if we were not locked in such a system of feedback and interference?
            I used to ask myself, 'what do the pilots or controllers of the UFO's do in their spare time?, do they sleep? do they get tired and have bad days?, do they suddenly get caught short and have to rush off to the nearest bathroom? do they get things wrong, make mistakes (crash UFO's), have arguments with the boss?'.
            I now believe that none of the above takes place, because what we are allowed to perceive is only the 'cover story' and that there are many elements that are deliberately (and necessarily) hidden from view. What we see is tailored to our prejudices and concepts of 'normality'.
            I believe as Vallee does, that the UFO phenomenon is only part of a control system that strays into religion, mythology, folklore and beyond into the nature of reality itself, and that we may only have begun to peep through the curtains at the true nature of what it is that lures us.
             
            Phil Crocker
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: 02 September 2000 21:50
            Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


                Roger, we're on the same wavelength on this one.  One place where I chose to interpret differently was Vallee's "control system."  If you read the context carefully, especially the example about finding a pattern of rocks in the desert and if you move one of the rocks a little guy pops out from behind a bush and yells at you, I interpreted Vallee's "control system" to mean a "feedback control system" like a house heating and air conditioning system controlled by a thermostat.  If you leave it alone it responds to the outside temperature to keep the indoor temperature at the setting on the thermostat, and you can change that setting.  However, there are other ways to intervene.  You can open a window.  You can light a candle and hold it under the thermostat.  You can pack the thermostat in ice.  Any one of these will elicit a response from the control system.  All you have to do is figure out what the control system is responding to; in the case of the example: temperature. 
                Many years ago I conducted a sociological experiment to test that thesis.  I had observed since 1963 that in every case I heard of in which a UFO was seen by someone who had the presence of mind to think a reasonable request at it, the UFO immediately complied.  There was an FBI agent who was a guest on the David Letterman Show who told of seeing a disc hover low over his car while he was on vacation.  Remarking that since he was an FBI agent, he wasn't afraid, he stopped the car, got out, looked up at the 35-foot disc that was hovering 50 feet over his head and thought at it that "I would like to see more of you."  Instantly, the UFO did a slow roll, displaying every square inch of itself to his view.  Another example: A musician who advertised in the LA Times for UFO info told me he was on Lookout Mountain overlooking El Toro Marine Base in Orange County, Calif. when an orange light flew by.  As it drew opposite his vantage point, he thought at it "If you're a spacecraft, hover."  It instantly stopped and hovered for a few seconds before resuming it's flight.  I read in Michael X. Barton's "Venusian Secret-Science" that one could buy a "Telolith" crystal, tune it to your telepathic frequency and communicate with Flying Saucers.  The address for purchase and tuning instructions were included.  I did, and sent this message "I am presently (1963) working on manned interplanetary operations (Apollo), so I know what's involved, so I won't be disappointed if nothing happens, but if it is convenient for you guys, I would like a flyover at two o'clock tomorrow morning when nobody else is around to verify that this thing works."  At 1:45 AM I went outside.  At exactly 2 AM the neighbors across the street came home.  (Somebody else was around) They opened the garage, turned on every light in the house, put the station wagon in the garage and started turning off the lights.  At 2:05 the last light went out and the ship went right over my head.  In 1981 I crafted the sociological experiment.  I invented "The Astrolitic Legation" as my way of volunteering my services here on Earth to "The Astrolites" a made-up name for whoever is in Flying Saucers responding to telepathic contacts from humans.  I wrote an "Invitation to Contact" letter giving instructions for making a telepathic request to the UFOs for a prearranged UFO flyover as a demonstration of telepathic contact.  I bought a mailing list of 1000 people, world-wide, who had bought UFO related books.  I printed 1000 copies of the letter and mailed them world-wide.  No hint of what they might see was included, but I soon received flyover reports from all over the world, describing the same thing I had seen.
                It is a control system, but you can control it.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
            To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
            Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:35 PM
            Subject: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?



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            UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
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            Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!

          • Philip J Crocker
            Hi Don, Sorry, I am not the good doctor of your acquaintance in Connecticut. Just plain Phil in the UK. I have many relatives however scattered across the
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 7, 2000
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              Hi Don,
              Sorry, I am not the good doctor of your acquaintance in Connecticut. Just plain Phil in the UK. I have many relatives however scattered across the world between Australia and the US of A so perhaps he is a distant cousin?.
              Thanks for your reply, its regrettable that any repeatability factor would be so treated by the military.I would guess by the reports of Black Helicopters transforming into UFO's (and presumably the reverse) that the difference is now so blurred that you would not know which it was you were seeing!
              is it Black Helicopters impersonating UFO's, UFO's impersonating Black Helicopters, or something else impersonating both?
              Maybe only the cattle know.
              The Silence Of The Cattle?
              Phil
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: 05 September 2000 23:54
              Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


              To Philip J. Crocker
              Not the same "Doctor" Crocker I knew as a classmate in Chemistry class in Burdick Jr. High School, Stamford Connecticut?  I suppose not.  Thank you for your recitation in defense of the local taboos.  Flyovers are not repeated on demand; that would be a violation of the Security Protocol implicit in The Captain's remark to Nebraska State Highway Patrolman Herbert Schirmer; "Landings are made at random."  If any pattern were followed except random, the US Government would find out what the pattern was via computers and be there at the next landing with Major Military Force.  There was a further development after the "Astrolitic Legation" experiment which involved my promotion from "Secretary of the Legation" which means the guy who mails the letters to "Delegate."  (look it up)  e-mail me at dpbennett@... and I'll send you a copy of that story.  My main job right now involves testing working models of Alien Technology.  Instead of sending the Black Helicopters to abduct me, top people at Secret labs have been most cooperative.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Philip J Crocker <PHILJCROCK@...>
              To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
              Date: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 2:07 AM
              Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


              Hi Don,
              I was fascinated by your experiments in attempting to verify Jacques Vallee's control system' as operated by the UFO phenomenon. I read in Paul R Hill's book 'Unconventional Flying Objects' that one of the unexplored aspects of UFO sightings, is the repeatability of the event, that certain contactees have noticed if an event is witnessed at a certain location, time and place, that the event is often repeated at the same location and time the next day. Thereafter the phenomenon is subtly altered to involve the contactee to a greater degree, a sort of ratchet effect, which gradually escalates the personal involvement. (perhaps the eventual purpose becomes similar to Adamski or Meiyer). Your experiment would appear to confirm that the level of contact being offered is a highly personal one, tailored to the individual. I have often wondered if a sighting only leads to physical or mental contact if the individual wants it to be so, even on a sub-conscious level. Perhaps the first sighting contains both conscious and sub-conscious imaging on a fundamental level and that this either 'takes' or does not.
              I cant help but consider a sort of sophisticated 'lure' is being used such as exhibited in nature by creatures that use the lure to feed or reproduce, such as certain deep sea fish, that have a bioluminescent light on a long wand overhanging the massive jaws. In the absolute dark of the deep ocean, to other fish such a single light may mean a mate or food and is attracted to the light, the unfortunate 'luree' only discovers its mistake as the jaws snap closed.
              There is evidently a much more sophisticated system operated by the UFO phenomenon, but I ask myself, just how far removed is the eventual aim of the lurer? is it entirely altruistic? Is the ultimate purpose some kind of symbiotic relationship or are we all ready in that position that the control system is simply the operating system.
              The UFO phenomenon seems perfectly happy to remain in the background and indeed exhibits every sign of using the most elaborate means to conceal itself in guises that are designed to render its image laughable or defy rational explanation, and yet it contains this evident lure, a 'come-on' that we must follow.
              This I feel is quite deliberate.
              I recall a book on insects that imitate others such as flies that chemically imitate the larvae of bees, the pregnant female enters a bees nest, but remains unmolested because of a chemical disguise such that it seems to the bee colony that its just another bee.The fly then finds the larvae nursery and lays a single egg in an empty cell.the female then leaves. The egg hatches and is fed like any other bee larvae, it smells and acts like a bee larvae, even when it grows to enormous size and starts eating genuine bee larvae the bee workers duly feed their cuckoo fly. The fly then matures and eats its way out of the nest to mate and start the cycle again.
              There was another far more fascinating example of such behaviour, this was the 'slaver ant'. These insects are remarkable in that it consists of only a queen, drones, and soldiers, no workers. The queen having mated, finds a hole close to a 'normal' ants nest, and, like any other queen ant, then forms a chamber and proceeds to lay eggs, however, these eggs mature into larvae which develop only into soldiers. These soldiers have unusually large heads with enormous mandibles, but they have a far more subtle weapon at their disposal; a chemical armoury of remarkable effectiveness. When the slaver colony reaches sufficient numbers, it sends out scouts to survey the area. When a nearby 'normal' ants nest is found, a raiding party is sent out. Naturally the defending ants immediately summon their soldiers and a fight ensues. However the slavers are stronger, their jaws slice through the heads of the defending ants, only sheer weight of numbers can save the day for the defenders. For a while the defenders mob the fewer invaders and start to drive the invaders away. The invaders then play their trump card. Chemicals are released that make the defending ants sense that their own soldiers are enemies! The unfortunate defenders begin to fight amongst themselves instead of fighting the invaders. The invading ants relieved of the one factor that could defeat them, then fight their way to the centre of the nest and begin to abduct workers. These workers are taken to their own nest and presented to the queen. She has her own arsenal of chemical weapons, and doses the foreign workers with one that makes them think that she is 'their' queen and they promptly go to work for her as if nothing was amiss. These workers get none of the benefits of belonging to a regular nest and soon die.The slavers then need to replenish their supply of workers, if the slavers were to raid the same nest, it would soon sicken and die, and the potential source of workers would dry up, so the slavers regularly visit other nests. I recall the entomologists studied the raiding patterns of the slavers and were surprised to discover a circular shaped zone which was harvested in an organised segmental fan pattern. This was operated in such a way that no one host nest was unduly stressed, until the next time its segment came into the pattern.
              Now I am not proposing that the UFO phenomenon represents giant fish lures or slaver aliens feeding upon human nests or indeed stealing its workers, but I am suggesting that the control system represents a behaviour modifying element that is not entirely altruistic, and seems to contain what I have begun to call the ga-ga factor in that contactees and abductees in particular seem to have come under both psychological and chemical conditioning not dissimilar to brainwashing techniques. their surpressed recollection of the event, physical or not, exhibits confusion and contradictions to a degree where the actual events that took place may well have become so well hidden that there may be only hints of the true actions and consequences pertaining.
              I ask myself how the stolen ant worker would see the events of its abduction if it had the capacity to do so?
              I also ask myself how such a control system has benefited the human race and how would we be if we were not locked in such a system of feedback and interference?
              I used to ask myself, 'what do the pilots or controllers of the UFO's do in their spare time?, do they sleep? do they get tired and have bad days?, do they suddenly get caught short and have to rush off to the nearest bathroom? do they get things wrong, make mistakes (crash UFO's), have arguments with the boss?'.
              I now believe that none of the above takes place, because what we are allowed to perceive is only the 'cover story' and that there are many elements that are deliberately (and necessarily) hidden from view. What we see is tailored to our prejudices and concepts of 'normality'.
              I believe as Vallee does, that the UFO phenomenon is only part of a control system that strays into religion, mythology, folklore and beyond into the nature of reality itself, and that we may only have begun to peep through the curtains at the true nature of what it is that lures us.
               
              Phil Crocker
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: 02 September 2000 21:50
              Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


                  Roger, we're on the same wavelength on this one.  One place where I chose to interpret differently was Vallee's "control system."  If you read the context carefully, especially the example about finding a pattern of rocks in the desert and if you move one of the rocks a little guy pops out from behind a bush and yells at you, I interpreted Vallee's "control system" to mean a "feedback control system" like a house heating and air conditioning system controlled by a thermostat.  If you leave it alone it responds to the outside temperature to keep the indoor temperature at the setting on the thermostat, and you can change that setting.  However, there are other ways to intervene.  You can open a window.  You can light a candle and hold it under the thermostat.  You can pack the thermostat in ice.  Any one of these will elicit a response from the control system.  All you have to do is figure out what the control system is responding to; in the case of the example: temperature. 
                  Many years ago I conducted a sociological experiment to test that thesis.  I had observed since 1963 that in every case I heard of in which a UFO was seen by someone who had the presence of mind to think a reasonable request at it, the UFO immediately complied.  There was an FBI agent who was a guest on the David Letterman Show who told of seeing a disc hover low over his car while he was on vacation.  Remarking that since he was an FBI agent, he wasn't afraid, he stopped the car, got out, looked up at the 35-foot disc that was hovering 50 feet over his head and thought at it that "I would like to see more of you."  Instantly, the UFO did a slow roll, displaying every square inch of itself to his view.  Another example: A musician who advertised in the LA Times for UFO info told me he was on Lookout Mountain overlooking El Toro Marine Base in Orange County, Calif. when an orange light flew by.  As it drew opposite his vantage point, he thought at it "If you're a spacecraft, hover."  It instantly stopped and hovered for a few seconds before resuming it's flight.  I read in Michael X. Barton's "Venusian Secret-Science" that one could buy a "Telolith" crystal, tune it to your telepathic frequency and communicate with Flying Saucers.  The address for purchase and tuning instructions were included.  I did, and sent this message "I am presently (1963) working on manned interplanetary operations (Apollo), so I know what's involved, so I won't be disappointed if nothing happens, but if it is convenient for you guys, I would like a flyover at two o'clock tomorrow morning when nobody else is around to verify that this thing works."  At 1:45 AM I went outside.  At exactly 2 AM the neighbors across the street came home.  (Somebody else was around) They opened the garage, turned on every light in the house, put the station wagon in the garage and started turning off the lights.  At 2:05 the last light went out and the ship went right over my head.  In 1981 I crafted the sociological experiment.  I invented "The Astrolitic Legation" as my way of volunteering my services here on Earth to "The Astrolites" a made-up name for whoever is in Flying Saucers responding to telepathic contacts from humans.  I wrote an "Invitation to Contact" letter giving instructions for making a telepathic request to the UFOs for a prearranged UFO flyover as a demonstration of telepathic contact.  I bought a mailing list of 1000 people, world-wide, who had bought UFO related books.  I printed 1000 copies of the letter and mailed them world-wide.  No hint of what they might see was included, but I soon received flyover reports from all over the world, describing the same thing I had seen.
                  It is a control system, but you can control it.
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
              To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
              Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:35 PM
              Subject: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?



              UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
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              Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!


              UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
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              Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
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              Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!


              UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted to:
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              Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!

            • Black12Star@aol.com
              Phil, It really is confusing. Also wondering if my experiences are from aliens or from human military. Maybe even both or something else. This is what bugs me
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 7, 2000
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                Phil,

                It really is confusing. Also wondering if my experiences are from aliens or
                from human military. Maybe even both or something else. This is what bugs me
                most about my experiences. I'm a science type person who likes to understand
                things, and this drives me nuts sometimes. If I ever get too emotional on
                this list it is probably because I really want to figure things out. I'm
                fairly certain it is the government much of the time, but what really bugs
                me is not knowing if aliens are involved. I think they are but I am not sure.
                Amy
              • Philip J Crocker
                Hi Amy, Yes, it bugs me too. It would seem that the division between military and UFO involvement is one following the other around trying to find out what the
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 7, 2000
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                  Hi Amy,
                  Yes, it bugs me too. It would seem that the division between military and
                  UFO involvement is one following the other around trying to find out what
                  the others interest was and to discover what can be learned from the methods
                  used. This is probably why UFOs are followed around by black helicopters,
                  maybe the reverse is true.
                  I can think of a few methods to verify which. The military would be unlikely
                  to initiate an abduction. They would however be interested in following it
                  up and perhaps trying to duplicate the method. Perhaps one way is how the
                  event feels to the individual involved, positive or negative. I do not think
                  that the military are capable of the imparting any spiritual well being to
                  their victims. Also, no matter if the helicopter is in whisper mode it still
                  makes a pressure wave like hum, it still runs on aviation fuel, and that has
                  a distinctive smell, it would also give out a terrific downwash of air. None
                  of those effects means it is not a helicopter.
                  Phil
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <Black12Star@...>
                  To: <ufonet@egroups.com>
                  Sent: 07 September 2000 13:57
                  Subject: Re: UFOnet: What causes belief changes?


                  >
                  > Phil,
                  >
                  > It really is confusing. Also wondering if my experiences are from aliens
                  or
                  > from human military. Maybe even both or something else. This is what bugs
                  me
                  > most about my experiences. I'm a science type person who likes to
                  understand
                  > things, and this drives me nuts sometimes. If I ever get too emotional on
                  > this list it is probably because I really want to figure things out. I'm
                  > fairly certain it is the government much of the time, but what really
                  bugs
                  > me is not knowing if aliens are involved. I think they are but I am not
                  sure.
                  > Amy
                  >
                  > UFOnet is an open, international, free news and discussion list devoted
                  to:
                  > UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
                  > Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
                  > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-subscribe@egroups.com
                  > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  > URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
                  > Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
                  >
                  > Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
                  brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
                  aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
                  >
                  >
                • Black12Star@aol.com
                  In a message dated 09/07/2000 4:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PHILJCROCK@email.msn.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 8, 2000
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                    In a message dated 09/07/2000 4:38:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    PHILJCROCK@... writes:

                    << Also, no matter if the helicopter is in whisper mode it still
                    makes a pressure wave like hum, it still runs on aviation fuel, and that has
                    a distinctive smell, it would also give out a terrific downwash of air. None
                    of those effects means it is not a helicopter.
                    Phil >>
                    There was the slight sound as if the helicopter were in the distance instead
                    of close up. But, like I said, I've seen these on AFBs and they were
                    different. This was more like a picture in the sky (flat looking ).
                    Amy
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