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Re: "Sorry, I disagree with everything you have said."

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  • Don Bennett
    Why do you write that you disagree with everything I have said and then go on to agree with everything I wrote? We are not communicating very well. I have
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 31, 2000
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      Why do you write that you disagree with everything I have said and then
      go on to agree with everything I wrote? We are not communicating very well.
      I have Temple's book, and I have read it. ISBN: 0 8600 7502 8 You think
      you can jam it in to conventional context with the off hand remark that
      "there were ancient lenses"? If you read the Note on page 290-291 you would
      know that a lot more was required to discover the companion of Sirius than
      "lenses." Also, besides the hexagonal mask and consideration of emulsion
      contraction, there's the fact that Dr. Lindenblad knew exactly what to look
      for because he wasn't making a discovery, he was checking the Dogon's
      discovery! The Dogon never claimed to have lenses! They claimed the
      Sirians came to Earth and told them about Sirius B! Or is that too
      "unconventional" for you to swallow? Open your mind.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
      To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, August 31, 2000 6:55 AM
      Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: "Science likes to claim to be right" and "faith in
      the scientific method"


      >
      >
      >Sorry, I disagree with everything you have said.
      >
      >
      >Consider the recent case of the Crystal Sun:
      >
      >Robert Temple famous for bringing to our attention the Dogon tribe that had
      >astronomical information in their folklore that was far in advance of their
      >seeming primitive nature. (In his book The Sirius Mystery) Has at last
      >followed up the lose ends of this mystery and can now reveal that in our
      >ancient past, the telescope was in use. In a book said by Arthur C Clarke
      as
      >about to revolutionize our views of the past, Temple explains how lenses
      >that were found by archaeologists were ignored, because they did not
      believe
      >that such things could exist, and how the history that comes down from
      >antiquity gets rewritten by the experts who do not believe that lenses did
      >not exist in antiquity.
      >
      >Temple says " ... nothing is harder to dislodge than a 'conventional
      >notion' held by experts. ask any expert if there were magnifying lenses in
      >antiquity and he will probably tell you: 'Of course not. There is no
      >evidence of anything like that. I have never seen any. None are known. And
      >there is no record of their having been known in ancient times.'"
      >
      >He continues to explain that his book is devoted to explaining how the view
      >we have had of the ancient world is distorted, that since we believed that
      >there was no optical technology in antiquity, the experts have
      >misinterpreted any number of things about man's past. History, technology,
      >architecture, religion, mythology, reading and writing, philosophy,
      >theology, craftsmanship, manufacture - all have been subjected to a
      >distorted viewpoint. Our ancient past has been viewed through
      >misconceptions. (A similar situation exists in UFOlogy, which I will come
      >to.)
      >
      >Temple claims to present overwhelming evidence for optical technology :
      >there are more than 450 ancient optical artifacts - slightly more than the
      >'none' which most people presume exist, and many ancient texts which inform
      >us explicitly, and without the slightest doubt, that optical technology was
      >known and used in antiquity.
      >
      >Certain scholars have fooled themselves into rewriting history by erasing
      >what ancient texts clearly said and putting new words in their place.
      Temple
      >presented his evidence to Professor Eichholz, who was translator of the
      >Roman author Pliny, who then said that if he had any idea at the time he
      >originally did his work, that there were ancient lenses, his translation of
      >the ancient text would have been different. When he originally did the
      >translation he was working from the belief that lenses did not exist, and
      >altered the meaning of words in the ancient text to reflect that belief. He
      >has now recanted in the error of his translation.
      >
      >Temple says that this kind of thing has happened time and time again:
      >scholars who 'edit the texts' of Greek and Latin have taken out many
      optical
      >words and have said these must be scribal errors, substituting new words of
      >their own invention. After doing this mistranslating the experts then said
      >there was no ancient textual evidence of optics. Yet they are the ones who
      >destroyed the evidence.
      >
      >
      >It is unfortunate that 'we' have done exactly the same thing again with
      20th
      >century science. WE have rewritten the history of science to conform to an
      >erroneous set of beliefs.
      >
      >The consequences of deriding Einstein from 1925/1926 onwards means we are
      in
      >the wrong overall theory. And from the belief in the wrong theory, we have
      >done the same as the scholars in the Crystal Sun, we have rewritten
      history,
      >philosophy etc. etc. to conform to the theory that we want to believe in.
      >
      >When Galileo tried to put forward the Copernican theory, he was faced with
      >the problem of having to prove that the Earth moved. The majority of his
      >contemporaries believed that the Earth did not move, their commonsense
      >belief system was based on the Earth not moving. The 'Earth not moving' was
      >the lynch pin of their beliefs. To say the Earth moved meant that
      everything
      >(of any importance) that they believed in was false.
      >
      >Disobeying Einstein from 1925/26 onwards has meant we have re-created the
      >scenario of Galileo's contemporaries. It is not just a case of changing a
      >few ideas here and there, the lynch pin of modern 20th century science is
      >wrong. Hence the thinking processes of everyone who believes in 20th
      century
      >science has been influenced by an advertising campaign, specially catered
      >for this erroneous set of beliefs.
      >
      >Ideally we should change theory to match observations, experiments etc. But
      >'we' do not really do that, instead we fit everything into a framework
      >theory we have been taught. When anomalous data arises we do not question
      >the framework theory, we instead question the data, and if necessary
      discard
      >it like we have done with certain UFO phenomena that refuses to conform.
      >
      >
      >Sorry, your set of beliefs are completely different to mine. The
      alternative
      >physics I believe in has had it history suppressed, so that your version of
      >science history would make you happy that your beliefs were consistent. You
      >believe in an erroneous science that believes people should be treated like
      >guinea pigs for experimentation of new ideas, products etc. And hence you
      >think that people do not matter, let a few die, it is all for the good of
      >science etc. The whole reasoning process upon how you reached that
      >deduction is flawed by erroneous ideas.
      >
      >Did you think that the UFO answer would be easy?
      >
      >
      >
      >----- Original Message -----
      >From: Don Bennett <dpbennett@...>
      >To: <ufonet@egroups.com>
      >Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 4:18 AM
      >Subject: UFOnet: Re: "Science likes to claim to be right" and "faith in the
      >scientific method"
      >
      >
      >>
      >> If you think "science likes to claim to be right" then you don't know
      >> anything about science. I'm assuming from context that by "right" you
      >mean
      >> "eternally right, infallible." That is Theology, not science. Any
      >> scientist will agree that science is right until the next data point is
      >> collected. That may be tomorrow, next week or ten years from now, but it
      >> will not be forever. In fact, everything science has ever said is wrong,
      >if
      >> you just wait for the next discovery. Yes, I do have faith in the
      >> scientific method. It is responsible for the Modern Age of Technology.
      >The
      >> alternative is Rule by Theology, which, with it's "Eternal Truths" ruled
      >the
      >> Earth during that time we now call the Dark Ages!
      >> As for product testing before release to the public, how much testing
      >do
      >> you recommend? Long-term effects may not show up for fifty years. Who
      do
      >> you test them on? Convicts? Third world non-whites? These are very
      hard
      >> questions that need to be debated. White mice don't provide all the
      >> answers. (Did you know white mice don't need Vitamin C? They synthesize
      >> their own internally.)
      >> Don Bennett
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
      >> To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
      >> Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 3:23 PM
      >> Subject: Re: UFOnet: BUDDEN's EM Fields.
      >>
      >>
      >> >
      >> >I don't know much about breast cancer, but I thought it was established
      >> that
      >> >the early silicon implants leaked.
      >> >
      >> >When it comes to studies about how many users of mobile phones have
      >cancer
      >> >compared to a control group of non users, the data ends up being
      >disputed.
      >> >
      >> >Some studies of lab animals reveals that there is an effect. But then
      >other
      >> >studies do not show an effect.
      >> >
      >> >Data is disputed. Data that showed smoking caused health problems was
      >> >disputed for a very long time. Data that asbestos was unsafe was
      disputed
      >> >for a very long time.
      >> >
      >> >It takes a very long time before evidence is agreed upon.
      >> >
      >> >But do you not think it is illogical that new products such as mobile
      >> phones
      >> >are assumed safe, and then sold to the public. There is no testing
      before
      >> >selling the product to check for any health effects. This means that the
      >> >human population is conducted to an experiment : the product is assumed
      >> >safe, and only when overwhelming evidence to the contrary is discovered
      >> from
      >> >actually doing the experiment is an erroneous assumption accepted as
      >being
      >> >wrong.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >Science has been corrupted by sellers interested in making money.
      >> >Assumptions are made that make sellers a profit. Science is applied to
      >> >problems created by sellers, and if science reveals that the assumption
      >is
      >> >erroneous then sellers say 'well we didn't know that at the time we sold
      >> it,
      >> >and can't be make responsible for the problems created by the product we
      >> >have sold' - they then take the money and run. It is a case of win- win
      >for
      >> >the seller of a product. And a case of buyer beware.
      >> >
      >> >Does this give you faith in the scientific method. Further experiments
      >are
      >> >planned to be conducted on the population, such as GM food.
      >> >
      >> >Some buyers have noticed the pattern - that science likes to claim to be
      >> >right even when it is later proven to be wrong.
      >> >
      >> >Do you enjoy being a guinea pig?
      >> >
      >> >I am saying that the theory upon which science is wrong, and the full
      >> >effects of electromagnetism have not been taken into account. This means
      >> >that the EM effects with cancer appear intermittent. And there is a
      >> >conspiracy to prevent any of this being revealed.
      >> >
      >> >Eventually this Nazi inspired experimentation program on the general
      >> >populace will create problems that our inadequate science will be unable
      >to
      >> >solve.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >----- Original Message -----
      >> >From: Don Bennett <dpbennett@...>
      >> >To: <ufonet@egroups.com>
      >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 4:01 AM
      >> >Subject: Re: UFOnet: BUDDEN's EM Fields.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >>
      >> >> "There is a case in BT where an engineer was a very big user of mobile
      >> >> phones and he died of brain cancer." Here we go again. Dow spent a
      >> >zillion
      >> >> dollars to study millions of people to prove that for EVERY woman who
      >had
      >> >> silicone breast implants and came down with the cobblies (lupus,
      breast
      >> >> cancer, autoimmune disease, etc.) there was a woman who had NO breast
      >> >> implants and came down with the same diseases. By that time Dow was
      >> broke
      >> >> and the Luddites had gone on to mobile phones and brain cancer. Until
      >> you
      >> >> tell me HOW MANY people using mobile phones come down with brain
      cancer
      >> >AND
      >> >> HOW MANY people who don't use mobile phones come down with brain
      cancer
      >> >the
      >> >> answer is SO WHAT?!!!!!!!!!
      >> >> -----Original Message-----
      >> >> From: Roger Anderton <R.J.Anderton@...>
      >> >> To: ufonet@egroups.com <ufonet@egroups.com>
      >> >> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 4:32 PM
      >> >> Subject: Re: UFOnet: BUDDEN's EM Fields.
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >> >
      >> >> >
      >> >> >
      >> >> >There is more to Budden's theorizing than that. Personally I think
      >> Budden
      >> >> is
      >> >> >a bit muddled on some things and has a collection of patch work
      >> theories,
      >> >> >without knowing the physics behind it all. But the physics has been
      >> >> >suppressed, re my Einstein conspiracy theory :
      >> >www.einsteinconspiracy.co.uk
      >> >> >
      >> >> >Budden when I pushed him, admitted to a sort of conspiracy in
      science.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >You say that you have never been affected from working in an
      >> >> electromagnetic
      >> >> >environment.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >Budden has the idea of 'electro sensitive' people, these people are
      >very
      >> >> >sensitive to electromagnetism. Since you are unaffected by
      >> >> electromagnetism,
      >> >> >then you are obviously not what he would call an 'electro sensitive'
      >> >> person.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >New Scientist this week article Metal heads p 36 - 39, gives part of
      >the
      >> >> >possible mechanism that Budden needs for his 'electro sensitive'
      >people
      >> >> >idea.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >quote : "... the human brain contains about 6 milligrams of copper,
      >> >enough
      >> >> >to print a small circuit board. Zinc, iron and manganese are just as
      >> >> >plentiful.... While we have known about metals in the body and brain
      >for
      >> >> >decades, it is only recently that science has stopped seeing them as
      >> just
      >> >> >trace elements and started to ask what on earth they are doing... the
      >> >brain
      >> >> >concentrates metals better than any other tissue in the body... our
      >> >brains
      >> >> >do not work properly without metals. Many neurons release zinc,
      copper
      >> or
      >> >> >iron to help transmit signals across synapses..."
      >> >> >
      >> >> >Now no one is really average, we are all different, we have different
      >> >> >heights, weights etc. People have different concentrations of metal
      in
      >> >> their
      >> >> >brains. Some have more, some have less than average. Metal acts like
      a
      >> >> >conductor, an aerial. An electromagnetic field must have an effect on
      >> >such
      >> >> >an arrangement. And it must be that a certain concentration of metal
      >in
      >> >> your
      >> >> >brain makes you a Budden 'electro sensitive' person. While a person
      >> >without
      >> >> >this amount of metal is not so adversely affected.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >The question: is the electromagnetic effect on a brain does it
      >activate
      >> >> >hallucinations/ dreams, or is there more involved such as can a brain
      >> act
      >> >> >like a radio set? There is a lot more to it than just this metal, for
      >> >> >instance you say:
      >> >> >
      >> >> >"ALL Radio systems, except microwaves from dishes obey the
      >> inverse-square
      >> >> >law, they drop off in intensity very rapidly, double the distance and
      >> you
      >> >> >only get a quarter of the intensity etc."
      >> >> >
      >> >> >The inverse square law is not important in this scenario. Einstein
      >> >> explained
      >> >> >the photo electric effect in terms of quanta. It was observed in
      order
      >> >for
      >> >> >light to cause a metal to emit electrons, the light had to be above a
      >> >> >certain frequency. While light below that frequency never caused the
      >> >metal
      >> >> >to emit electrons, no matter how intense the light was.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >There is no relationship between intensity of electromagnetic waves
      >(of
      >> >> >below critical freq) and emission of electrons from a metal. Hence
      the
      >> >> >inverse square law does not apply in the way that you may think. If
      >the
      >> >> >frequency you are dealing with is not of the critical type, then
      >> >intensity
      >> >> >is irrelevant.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >There is more to it than this, but you get the general idea.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >Are you sure that some of your colleagues are not being affected?
      Have
      >> >you
      >> >> >asked any of them if they get mysterious ailments? Have you noticed
      >any
      >> >> >losing their jobs?
      >> >> >I did not notice these things until I asked around. And it seems that
      >> >some
      >> >> >people are aware that mobile phones etc., cause them problems, and
      >they
      >> >try
      >> >> >to avoid using them. It is not until you ask, do you find out about
      >> these
      >> >> >things. These people do not generally like to say anything, because
      >the
      >> >> >general perception from the majority who are unaffected is, that they
      >> are
      >> >> >'whinging' about nothing.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >But the scenario reminds me of the canary bird taken down to mine
      >> shafts.
      >> >> >The canary would die first if there was lack of oxygen, and when the
      >> >miners
      >> >> >saw this they had time to get out before they too died. It seems to
      me
      >> >> these
      >> >> >'electro sensitive' people are the modern day canaries, but we are
      not
      >> >> >paying them any attention.
      >> >> >There is a case in BT where an engineer was a very big user of mobile
      >> >> phones
      >> >> >and he died of brain cancer.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >Basically orthodox physics is wrong. There is more to
      electromagnetism
      >> >than
      >> >> >currently accepted by the intellectuals in charge, and I have seen
      the
      >> >> >experiment that demonstrates this.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >
      >> >> >----- Original Message -----
      >> >> >From: Mike-O <Mike_ORTON_HARLECH@...>
      >> >> >To: <ufonet@egroups.com>
      >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 6:01 PM
      >> >> >Subject: UFOnet: BUDDEN's EM Fields.
      >> >> >
      >> >> >
      >> >> >> Message text written by INTERNET:ufonet@egroups.com
      >> >> >> >Albert Budden for some time and found his stuff interesting.
      >> Basically
      >> >> he
      >> >> >> uses his Electro-Magnetic
      >> >> >> Field theory to explain UFOs too and the abduction phenomenon on
      EMF
      >> >> >effect
      >> >> >> on people's minds. <
      >> >> >> I have read one of his books, and I am not convinced with his
      ideas.
      >> >> >> During all my working life of 35 years I have worked in an
      >environment
      >> >> >> where there were very high electric fields, both 50 CPS,
      Microwaves,
      >> >VHF
      >> >> >> systems and when in Mountain Rescue, Personal RT equipment, 5-10
      >watts
      >> >a
      >> >> >> foot or so from my head.
      >> >> >> I now use a mobile phone.
      >> >> >> I have also worked very near Sames Generators, Van der Graff
      >> >Generators,
      >> >> >up
      >> >> >> to Mev X-Ray sets, Cockroft-Walton Machines, and Travelling Wave
      >type
      >> >> >> Accelerator. (35 Mev). I have worked in Labs packed full of
      various
      >> >> >> electronic black boxes.
      >> >> >> ALL Radio systems, except microwaves from dishes obey the
      >> >inverse-square
      >> >> >> law, they drop off in intensity very rapidly, double the distance
      >and
      >> >you
      >> >> >> only get a quarter of the intensity etc. So I and my fellow
      workers,
      >> >who
      >> >> >> were close to the many sources should have suffered more, seen more
      >> >UFOs
      >> >> >> and imagined that we were surrounded by little 3.5' grey monsters
      >with
      >> >> big
      >> >> >> black eyes. However we were able to carry on with highly technical
      >> >jobs,
      >> >> >> even sleep on the job without nightmares, yet the general public
      >> appear
      >> >> to
      >> >> >> suffer even if they only live near a piddling little transformer on
      >a
      >> >> >> housing estate.
      >> >> >> IF you start from the supposition that there is no life out there,
      >no
      >> >> >> aliens, therefore no UFOs and definitely no abductions, Budden's
      >> >> >> "explanation" is probably as good as any, but it is very difficult
      >to
      >> >> >> explain where the very consistant reports of abductees, the
      >> >radar-visual
      >> >> >> reports and even the Smith-Sarbacher letters fit into this EM
      >> delusion.
      >> >> >> The EM Delusion goes no way to explain the points that Harvard's
      >Prof
      >> >> Mack
      >> >> >> says need to be explained to find an explanation for Abductions,
      >other
      >> >> >than
      >> >> >> what they claim is happening to them actually is.
      >> >> >> ***********************************************
      >> >> >> Mid Wales Co-ordinator of WFIU.
      >> >> >> Mike Orton, CPhys., MInstP.,DCT(Batt)., MSRP., PGCE(Wales).
      >> >> >> 40 years in computing from Stretch to the networked Pentium, 35
      >years
      >> >as
      >> >> a
      >> >> >> Health Physicist. 25 Years in Safety Training.
      >> >> >> I.T Training, I.T.Security & Secure
      >> Access.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> E-Mail:
      >> >> >> Mike_orton_Harlech@...
      >> >> >> Phone:- 01766-780-665
      >> >> >> *********************************************
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >>
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      >UFOs, Anomalous Phenomena, Astronomy, Skywatching, SETI, the Latest on
      >Aerospace Research and Space Flight, Free & New Energy, Exoscience, etc.
      >To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
      >ufonet-subscribe@egroups.com
      >To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
      >ufonet-unsubscribe@egroups.com
      >
      >URL: http://www.ufonet.nl/(Dutch)
      >Messages to the list-owner: jkumeling@...
      >
      >Word voor fl 20,- lid van de UFOnieuwsbrief. Zes maal per jaar in de echte
      brievenbus het laatste nieuws uit de ufologie, astronomie, ruimtevaart en
      aanverwante onderwerpen. Kijk op www.ufonet.nl!
      >
      >
      >

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