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Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints

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  • Mark Roberts
    Sorry, My last comment was probably mis-leading. Yes, there is or was water on Mars. However, because of the extremely low temperature on Mars I was under the
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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      Sorry,

      My last comment was probably mis-leading. Yes, there is or was water on
      Mars. However, because of the extremely low temperature on Mars I was under
      the impression that the water could only exist as either ice or vapour.

      None of those states would erode any prints.

      Again, maybe I'm wrong. What do other members think?

      regards,

      Mark
      PSI-Net
      The World Of Paranormal Investigations
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@...>
      To: <ufonet@egroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 8:48 AM
      Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints


      > Subject: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints
      > From: Mark Roberts, mrmarkbroberts@...
      >
      > >if there were no Martian winds. Remember, as there is currently no water
      > >on Mars that we know of, it would be difficult for the prints to erode.
      > >Now I'm certainly not an Astronomer or
      > What do you mean there's no water on Mars?? Didn't you ever follow the
      > news?
      >
      >
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    • Autymn D. C.
      Subject: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints From: Mark Roberts, mrmarkbroberts@lineone.net ... What do you mean there s no water on Mars??
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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        Subject: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints
        From: Mark Roberts, mrmarkbroberts@...

        >if there were no Martian winds. Remember, as there is currently no water
        >on Mars that we know of, it would be difficult for the prints to erode.
        >Now I'm certainly not an Astronomer or
        What do you mean there's no water on Mars?? Didn't you ever follow the
        news?
      • Autymn D. C.
        Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints From: Mark Roberts, mrmarkbroberts@lineone.net ... I read somewhere that liquid water existed in
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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          Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints
          From: Mark Roberts, mrmarkbroberts@...


          >My last comment was probably mis-leading. Yes, there is or was water on
          >Mars. However, because of the extremely low temperature on Mars I was under
          >the impression that the water could only exist as either ice or vapour.
          I read somewhere that liquid water existed in crater shadows away from
          the sun's reach. Here you go:


          Subject: [cydonia] Did scientists NOT want to believe in liquid
          water on Mars?
          From: LanFleming@...


          I hope it's OK to post this to the list. I assume that since the list is
          closed, copyright concerns don't apply. I thought it would be of
          considerable interest, to some people at least. Malin made an incredible
          misstatement in the article he wrote for Science Magazine on his
          "discovery"
          of evidence of liquid water on Mars. I couldn't believe it, but I
          downloaded
          the article and he really. Everything the author, Clark, says below is
          true
          about the facts of Malin's incorrect statement versus the Viking and
          Pathfinder data.
          =========================================================
          Subject:
          Did scientists NOT want to believe in liquid water on Mars?
          Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:36:56 GMT
          From: Robert Clark <rgclark@...>
          Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
          Newsgroups: sci.astro, alt.sci.planetary, sci.physics, sci.space.policy


          Dr. Ron Levin alerted me to this statement about Mars that appears in
          the recent paper by Malin and Edgett suggesting possible liquid water
          on Mars, "Evidence for recent Groundwater Seepage and Surface runoff
          on Mars", http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/hottopics/index.html :

          "atmospheric pressures are at or below water's triple point vapor
          pressure of 6.1 mbar."

          Measurements taken by the Viking landers showed the daily pressure
          never dropped lower than 6.5 mbar at either lander site during the
          entire length of time measurements were taken by the landers, 2 to 4
          years. And at the northern site at Utopia Planitia the pressures
          frequently reached 10 mbar. The Pathfinder mission confirmed this fact:
          surface pressure never dropped below the triple point of water. It is
          quite likely that throughout the entire northern hemisphere the surface
          pressures are routinely above the triple point of water, except
          possibly on the highest peaks on Mars.

          Two web sites that give the pressure readings at the Viking and
          Pathfinder locations are:

          Weather Reports From Mars
          http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/science/weather.html

          Mars Pathfinder Atmospheric Pressure "Movie"
          http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/MPF/science/pressure_movie.html

          This is a commonly made error and frankly I'm puzzled by it. If
          someone who favored Martian life made a statement like "organic
          compounds are sure to be found on Mars because they are known to occur
          on meteorites that impact Mars", then he would be roundly criticized
          because that completely ignores the Viking results. Yet this incorrect
          statement about Martian atmospheric pressures, which has been
          contradicted by both Viking and Pathfinder, is routinely made even by
          scientists who study the Martian climate.

          I was astonished to see this on a web page maintained by NASA
          scientists who study Martian weather:

          "The average atmospheric pressure on Mars is only about 6 millibars
          compared to the Earth's average pressure of 1013 millibars. The average
          surface temperature on Mars is about -60 deg C compared to the Earth's
          15 deg C. Because the atmospheric pressure is low and the temperature
          at the surface is generally below the freezing point of water, water
          can only exist as ice or vapor."
          Is there liquid water on Mars or below its surface?
          http://humbabe.arc.nasa.gov/mgcm/faq/liquid.html

          This page strongly gives the mistaken impression that the pressure on
          Mars is usually below the triple point of 6.1 mbar. It does mention
          that pressures above this are possible but makes it seem like this is
          an exception when actually the exact opposite is the case.
          The web page also discusses models that show that even under the right
          pressures and temperatures ice would turn to vapor rather than melt to
          liquid water. However, such models have been criticized by Drs. Ron and
          Gil Levin as making several dubious assumptions in their calculations:

          Liquid water and life on Mars
          http://www.biospherics.com/mars/spie2/spie98.htm


          So why is it that scientists familiar with the Viking and Pathfinder
          atmospheric results still say that the pressure on Mars is below the
          triple point of water 6.1 mbar? In my opinion it is because scientists
          did not want there to be liquid water on Mars.
          The conclusion in regards to the Viking missions was "no life". Then
          to support that conclusion it had to be promoted the idea that liquid
          water on the surface of Mars was impossible. Consider: scientists
          should be interested in getting out the true facts and data collected
          by their instruments. Yet they routinely ignored the (in my view) quite
          important fact returned by those instruments that the pressure on Mars
          was within the range to permit liquid water. Why? The only conclusion I
          can draw is that the idea of liquid water on Mars was an unpalatable
          idea - and the only reason I can think of for that was that this would
          have allowed the possibility of life on Mars.
          =========================================================

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          Subject: [tmg_announcement] Is the Water on Mars Just A Cover Story?
          From: Marshall Masters, lists@...

          Is the Water on Mars Just A Cover Story?

          The recent announcement of water on Mars has left many scientists
          scratching their heads. Why all the recent hullaballo over something
          that has been known for decades?

          Have we become so uninterested in space exploration since the Apollo
          program that NASA needs a scientific trick-of-hand to secure new
          funding?

          Or, could the water on Mars be just a cover story because they now
          know that there is something on Mars, that if discovered, could shake
          humanity to its core?

          YOWUSA media news analyst Steve Russell has peeled back this story
          one piece at a time to reveal what is arguably a well finessed cover
          story.

          READ THIS YOWUSA EXCLUSIVE
          http://WWW.YOWUSA.COM
        • Ingrid De Kegel
          Someone wrote : So why is it that scientists familiar with the Viking and Pathfinder atmospheric results still say that the pressure on Mars is below the
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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            Someone wrote :
            So why is it that scientists familiar with the Viking and
            Pathfinder atmospheric results still say that the pressure on Mars is below the triple point of water 6.1 mbar? In my opinion it is because
            scientists did not want there to be liquid water on Mars.

            I say : You have the wrong opinion. Scientists have good reasons to hope that there really is liquid water on Mars. Photographical data suggest that it is so.  Water makes life possible, that's correct. But water also makes it possible to get a crew to Mars and take them back to earth! It is rather easy to send an astronaut to Mars, the only difficulty is to bring him back. That requires too much energy (our spaceship could not carry such huge amounts of energy). So the basic plan is :  the energy that is necessary to return must be made on Mars. This is only possible if there is water present. So the discovery of liquid water should be exciting to all of us in more than one way.

            Ingrid.

          • GSnudd@webtv.net
            Hi All Wouldn t the raging dust storms that envelop Mars from time to time cause some sand to possibly obscure true footprints? Yes, I think so. I am not an
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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              Hi All

              Wouldn't the raging dust storms that envelop Mars from time to time
              cause some sand to possibly obscure true footprints?

              Yes, I think so.

              I am not an expert in Mars topography, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a
              few years ago.

              Ciao.



              GSnudd@...

              ========================================

              A Good Day is When You
              Wake Up Without a Chalk
              Outline Around Your Body

              ========================================
            • Autymn D. C.
              Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints From: GSnudd@webtv.net ... This is from an encyclopaedia article: At certain seasons, some areas
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 29, 2000
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                Subject: Re: UFOnet: Re: Lou Anne/Alien Footprints
                From: GSnudd@...

                >Wouldn't the raging dust storms that envelop Mars from time to time
                >cause some sand to possibly obscure true footprints?
                This is from an encyclopaedia article:

                At certain seasons, some areas on Mars are subject to winds strong enough
                to move sand on the surface and to suspend dust in the atmosphere. A
                major weather event occurs in the southern hemisphere between late spring
                and early summer when Mars is near perihelion and the heating of southern
                equatorial latitudes is most intense. Dust storms begin to form, and
                some reach global proportions, obscuring the planet's surface for weeks
                or even months. The dust entrained in these clouds, which is very fine
                and takes a long time to settle, accounts for the reddish skies seen in
                some Viking lander color photographs.

                maybe, maybe not
              • Pepthewep
                Excellent point, Autymn!! I would be thrilled if these were true footprints but, this stuff is a crock IMO. If they weren t circled in the picture, I would
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 2, 2000
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                  Excellent point, Autymn!! I would be thrilled if these were true footprints
                  but, this stuff is a crock
                  IMO. If they weren't circled in the picture, I would never have seen them.
                  They are really stretching their imagination here.
                  Barb c.
                • OrionDJ12@aol.com
                  that s the problem. If there is anything that no one can identify, it s alway oh look, aliens have come here Well maybe its not. No evidence, no footprints.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 2, 2000
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                    that's the problem. If there is anything that no one can identify, it's alway
                    "oh look, aliens have come here" Well maybe its not. No evidence, no
                    footprints. I call them marks made by Mar's geological system. Also know as
                    rocks. We should start concerntrating on more likely things than aliens
                    visitation. I bet you can find almost identical marks here on earth, and you
                    looked hard evnough on the moon, they might be there too. Aliens sure like to
                    travel, eh?
                  • Pepthewep
                    Ciao, YOU stayed in a Holiday Inn??? You should be working for NASA with that IQ!!!! Barb c.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 2, 2000
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                      Ciao,
                      YOU stayed in a Holiday Inn???
                      You should be working for NASA
                      with that IQ!!!!
                      Barb c.
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