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Re: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book

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  • geoff@thewhyfiles.net
    James, My review of Dr. Lynn s book has been published at http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 23, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      James,
      My review of Dr. Lynn's book has been published at
      http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
      for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of other websites,
      mailing lists, forums and Amazon Books for the same period.
      Why after this length of time do you start to question it?
      As far as the flare theory goes I believe that the analysis of the flares
      (performed by a company in California?) was proven to be inaccurate or
      possibly even worse that inaccurate. I also believe that a comment to this
      extent is in Dr. Lynn's book.
      As yet I haven't had time to check the exact quote/page.
      However, are we debating the events, the book about the events, the people
      involved in interpreting the events, the people involved in writing a book
      about the events or my review of the book?
      I have lost track. It is fine for you to state that you disagree with my
      review, no problems there. But to evaluate a book using MUFON politics and
      personal differences as guidelines is wrong.
      Tell you what, write a review of the book yourself and publish it via UFOnet
      etc.. and on your own website. That way we can come to some decision
      regarding your points of view in the matter.
      Cheers,
      Geoff

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "delchay2005" <azredant@...>
      To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:05 PM
      Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book


      > --- Stuart and list,
      >
      > I have never harrassed or pestered anyone in my life. In fact, I am
      > very well respected in the UFO community in Phoenix. I have been on
      > local radio, television, and even spoke on a panel about the Phoenix
      > Lights at Phoenix College. I debated Jim Diletosso and others about
      > the sighting. I spoke about the limitations of testing video, due to
      > the lack of resolution and distant light at night and how it would
      > be almost impossible to use as evidence. When I completed my point
      > to the crowd, Diletosso leaned over to me and agreed with my
      > statement. After that perculiar response. I asked him if he did
      > indeed agree with my statement why did he speak so fondly of his
      > video analysis?
      >
      > "It's showtime!" Was his response.
      >
      > I also spoke the truth about Dr Lynn's first book signing debacle in
      > my previous response to Geoff. All you have to do is contact Judy
      > Varns , she is the assistant State Director for MUFON in Phoenix,
      > and she will verify what happened that night at the event.
      >
      > I was given a private email to contact Dr. Lynn. I asked to meet
      > with her to discuss the other "side" of the story. I never heard
      > from her. That is the only time I attempted to contact her.
      >
      > If you want to attack my character, I will not respond to any more
      > of your posts. If you want to talk about facts of the case, I will
      > be happy to answer any of your questions.
      >
      > Just ask yourself one thing though Stuart. Why don't you think the
      > military flare theory was covered in her book?
      >
      > It was only ridiculed.
      >
      > James
      >
      >
      >
      > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4@b...> wrote:
      >>
      >> List,
      >>
      >> In the interview I did with Dr. Lynn for UFO Review, she did
      >> make mention to me of some individual within the local MUFON
      >> chapter who drove her away from the organisation and harrassed
      >> and pestered her, doing everything he possibly could to
      >> counteract her affectiveness. She spoke guardedly about this
      >> person and it was left to the reader to draw their own
      >> conclusions about this person's motives and indeed the state of
      >> his mental health.
      >>
      >> Might that individual by some chance be you James?
      >>
      >> Damned disrespectful of her not to listen to you as you appear
      >> to be the only person around who really knows the truth about
      >> Phoenix.
      >>
      >> It would appear, by inference at least according to you, that
      >> every light ever seen above that city was a military flare.
      >>
      >> You're not on or associated with Phoenix city council are you?
      >>
      >>
      >> Stuart Miller
      >>
      >> >Hi Geoff,
      >>
      >> >Her accounts were only accurate in date and times of the
      >> >sightings.
      >>
      >> >She claimed that she was not comfortable with dealing with the
      >> >local MUFON chapter because of "infighting" occurring their. In
      >> >reality, the infighting was caused by Bill Hamilton, whom she
      >> >uses as a credible source in her book. Hamilton quit MUFON when
      >> >he accused the State Director of tampering with UFO reports
      >> >given to him by Peter Davenport about the Phoenix Lights. This
      >> >was not true. The truth is that Bill Hamilton was about to be
      >> >removed from his position due to credibility issues about his
      >> >behaivor. This information was relayed to me from ex State
      >> >Director Tom Taylor, who has since passed away.
      >>
      >> >Dr. Lynn made a wrong judgement about this. Instead of hearing
      >> >the truth which I offered to give to her, she would not even
      >> >listen. She joined the cabal of the Jim Diletosso crew and
      >> >followed down the merry path of believing that he was a
      >> >professional ufo investigator.
      >>
      >> >Another point about Dr Lynn. She never even expands on the
      >> >military flare theory in her book. She put her trust in Jim
      >> >Diletosso. That was her biggest mistake.
      >>
      >> >One other important point. All of her sightings of lights
      >> >occurred in direct line of the gunnery range where flares were
      >> >dropped frequently.
      >>
      >> >I guess she forgot to put that in her book.
      >>
      >> >James
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
      > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
      >
      > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
      > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
      > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
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      > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
      >
      > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
      > require
      > further investigation.
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • delchay2005
      ... Richard Motzer s triangulation and timeline of events that occurred that evening were published in the MUFON UFO journal. Richard poured his own money into
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 23, 2006
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        ---
        Richard Motzer's triangulation and timeline of events that occurred
        that evening were published in the MUFON UFO journal. Richard poured
        his own money into the investigation and produced a short video on
        the 10:00 PM event. His investigation has been supported by many top
        Ufologists including Bruce Macabbee, a top rearcher in the field. He
        has a whole section devoted to the Phoenix Lights.

        Did Dr. Lynn cover this in her book. Nope. Not a word. If you are
        going to write a comprehensive book about this case, would'nt you
        want to cover both sides of the equation?

        I have been speaking out on this subject for many years on a local
        level. The incidents I cited to my post to Stuart are the truth and
        can be verified.

        It is unfortunate that people do not research something and
        automatically believe what is told to them on television and in book
        form.

        I think what happened with the Phoenix Lights is there was a media
        frenzy fueled by greed of selling footage taken that night of March
        13th. I do not think Dr Lynn was a part of that. I think she was
        duped in believing in a man that should not be taken seriosly as a
        credible UFO investigator.

        Please go to the UFOwatchdog website. You can read all about Mr.
        Delettoso in the UFO Hall of Shame section which will provide you
        eith a link to the investigative report on him by the New Times
        reporter Tony Ortega.

        Don't drink the Koolaid on the Phoenix Lights case Geoff, get the
        facts.

        James




        In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, <geoff@t...> wrote:
        >
        > James,
        > My review of Dr. Lynn's book has been published at
        > http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
        > for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of other
        websites,
        > mailing lists, forums and Amazon Books for the same period.
        > Why after this length of time do you start to question it?
        > As far as the flare theory goes I believe that the analysis of the
        flares
        > (performed by a company in California?) was proven to be inaccurate
        or
        > possibly even worse that inaccurate. I also believe that a comment
        to this
        > extent is in Dr. Lynn's book.
        > As yet I haven't had time to check the exact quote/page.
        > However, are we debating the events, the book about the events, the
        people
        > involved in interpreting the events, the people involved in writing
        a book
        > about the events or my review of the book?
        > I have lost track. It is fine for you to state that you disagree
        with my
        > review, no problems there. But to evaluate a book using MUFON
        politics and
        > personal differences as guidelines is wrong.
        > Tell you what, write a review of the book yourself and publish it
        via UFOnet
        > etc.. and on your own website. That way we can come to some
        decision
        > regarding your points of view in the matter.
        > Cheers,
        > Geoff
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "delchay2005" <azredant@a...>
        > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:05 PM
        > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
        >
        >
        > > --- Stuart and list,
        > >
        > > I have never harrassed or pestered anyone in my life. In fact, I
        am
        > > very well respected in the UFO community in Phoenix. I have been
        on
        > > local radio, television, and even spoke on a panel about the
        Phoenix
        > > Lights at Phoenix College. I debated Jim Diletosso and others
        about
        > > the sighting. I spoke about the limitations of testing video, due
        to
        > > the lack of resolution and distant light at night and how it would
        > > be almost impossible to use as evidence. When I completed my point
        > > to the crowd, Diletosso leaned over to me and agreed with my
        > > statement. After that perculiar response. I asked him if he did
        > > indeed agree with my statement why did he speak so fondly of his
        > > video analysis?
        > >
        > > "It's showtime!" Was his response.
        > >
        > > I also spoke the truth about Dr Lynn's first book signing debacle
        in
        > > my previous response to Geoff. All you have to do is contact Judy
        > > Varns , she is the assistant State Director for MUFON in Phoenix,
        > > and she will verify what happened that night at the event.
        > >
        > > I was given a private email to contact Dr. Lynn. I asked to meet
        > > with her to discuss the other "side" of the story. I never heard
        > > from her. That is the only time I attempted to contact her.
        > >
        > > If you want to attack my character, I will not respond to any more
        > > of your posts. If you want to talk about facts of the case, I will
        > > be happy to answer any of your questions.
        > >
        > > Just ask yourself one thing though Stuart. Why don't you think the
        > > military flare theory was covered in her book?
        > >
        > > It was only ridiculed.
        > >
        > > James
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4@b...>
        wrote:
        > >>
        > >> List,
        > >>
        > >> In the interview I did with Dr. Lynn for UFO Review, she did
        > >> make mention to me of some individual within the local MUFON
        > >> chapter who drove her away from the organisation and harrassed
        > >> and pestered her, doing everything he possibly could to
        > >> counteract her affectiveness. She spoke guardedly about this
        > >> person and it was left to the reader to draw their own
        > >> conclusions about this person's motives and indeed the state of
        > >> his mental health.
        > >>
        > >> Might that individual by some chance be you James?
        > >>
        > >> Damned disrespectful of her not to listen to you as you appear
        > >> to be the only person around who really knows the truth about
        > >> Phoenix.
        > >>
        > >> It would appear, by inference at least according to you, that
        > >> every light ever seen above that city was a military flare.
        > >>
        > >> You're not on or associated with Phoenix city council are you?
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Stuart Miller
        > >>
        > >> >Hi Geoff,
        > >>
        > >> >Her accounts were only accurate in date and times of the
        > >> >sightings.
        > >>
        > >> >She claimed that she was not comfortable with dealing with the
        > >> >local MUFON chapter because of "infighting" occurring their. In
        > >> >reality, the infighting was caused by Bill Hamilton, whom she
        > >> >uses as a credible source in her book. Hamilton quit MUFON when
        > >> >he accused the State Director of tampering with UFO reports
        > >> >given to him by Peter Davenport about the Phoenix Lights. This
        > >> >was not true. The truth is that Bill Hamilton was about to be
        > >> >removed from his position due to credibility issues about his
        > >> >behaivor. This information was relayed to me from ex State
        > >> >Director Tom Taylor, who has since passed away.
        > >>
        > >> >Dr. Lynn made a wrong judgement about this. Instead of hearing
        > >> >the truth which I offered to give to her, she would not even
        > >> >listen. She joined the cabal of the Jim Diletosso crew and
        > >> >followed down the merry path of believing that he was a
        > >> >professional ufo investigator.
        > >>
        > >> >Another point about Dr Lynn. She never even expands on the
        > >> >military flare theory in her book. She put her trust in Jim
        > >> >Diletosso. That was her biggest mistake.
        > >>
        > >> >One other important point. All of her sightings of lights
        > >> >occurred in direct line of the gunnery range where flares were
        > >> >dropped frequently.
        > >>
        > >> >I guess she forgot to put that in her book.
        > >>
        > >> >James
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
        > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
        > >
        > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
        > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
        > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > Website: http://www.ufonet.nl
        > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@d...
        > >
        > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this
        list
        > > require
        > > further investigation.
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Geoff Richardson
        Hi James, Regardless of what you regard as convenient omissions from Dr. Lynn s book I do hope that you have done me the courtesy of at least reading the whole
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 24, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi James,
          Regardless of what you regard as convenient omissions from Dr. Lynn's book I do hope that you have done me the courtesy of at least reading the whole of www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm

          On occasion I have found that The WHY? Files have been automatically criticised and it is painfully obvious to me that they haven't even bothered to read the very content that is being referred to( quite common in what some cowardly and self-important people like to describe as blogs).

          Tell you what, James, write a decent critique of Dr. Lynn's book and we will publish it on The WHY? Files - it will get at least a little attention as we have achieved in excess of 40 million hits in 18 months.

          As far as your comments regarding Jim D. are concerned I can tell you that about 2 years ago I used the phrase "UFO Community" in a posting on a UFO group. I have to tell you that some members of that group were quite adamant that the use of the word "community" was almost ridiculous after the character assassination that Jim D. had recently suffered at the hands of (presumably) your buddies. There are two sides (or more) to most stories and this certainly applies to Jim D.
          There you are James, the offer stands - write a decent and accurate response and it will be added to the Phoenix Lights page of The WHY? Files.
          Best,
          Geoff
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: delchay2005
          To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:31 PM
          Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book


          ---
          Richard Motzer's triangulation and timeline of events that occurred
          that evening were published in the MUFON UFO journal. Richard poured
          his own money into the investigation and produced a short video on
          the 10:00 PM event. His investigation has been supported by many top
          Ufologists including Bruce Macabbee, a top rearcher in the field. He
          has a whole section devoted to the Phoenix Lights.

          Did Dr. Lynn cover this in her book. Nope. Not a word. If you are
          going to write a comprehensive book about this case, would'nt you
          want to cover both sides of the equation?

          I have been speaking out on this subject for many years on a local
          level. The incidents I cited to my post to Stuart are the truth and
          can be verified.

          It is unfortunate that people do not research something and
          automatically believe what is told to them on television and in book
          form.

          I think what happened with the Phoenix Lights is there was a media
          frenzy fueled by greed of selling footage taken that night of March
          13th. I do not think Dr Lynn was a part of that. I think she was
          duped in believing in a man that should not be taken seriosly as a
          credible UFO investigator.

          Please go to the UFOwatchdog website. You can read all about Mr.
          Delettoso in the UFO Hall of Shame section which will provide you
          eith a link to the investigative report on him by the New Times
          reporter Tony Ortega.

          Don't drink the Koolaid on the Phoenix Lights case Geoff, get the
          facts.

          James




          In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, <geoff@t...> wrote:
          >
          > James,
          > My review of Dr. Lynn's book has been published at
          > http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
          > for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of other
          websites,
          > mailing lists, forums and Amazon Books for the same period.
          > Why after this length of time do you start to question it?
          > As far as the flare theory goes I believe that the analysis of the
          flares
          > (performed by a company in California?) was proven to be inaccurate
          or
          > possibly even worse that inaccurate. I also believe that a comment
          to this
          > extent is in Dr. Lynn's book.
          > As yet I haven't had time to check the exact quote/page.
          > However, are we debating the events, the book about the events, the
          people
          > involved in interpreting the events, the people involved in writing
          a book
          > about the events or my review of the book?
          > I have lost track. It is fine for you to state that you disagree
          with my
          > review, no problems there. But to evaluate a book using MUFON
          politics and
          > personal differences as guidelines is wrong.
          > Tell you what, write a review of the book yourself and publish it
          via UFOnet
          > etc.. and on your own website. That way we can come to some
          decision
          > regarding your points of view in the matter.
          > Cheers,
          > Geoff
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "delchay2005" <azredant@a...>
          > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:05 PM
          > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
          >
          >
          > > --- Stuart and list,
          > >
          > > I have never harrassed or pestered anyone in my life. In fact, I
          am
          > > very well respected in the UFO community in Phoenix. I have been
          on
          > > local radio, television, and even spoke on a panel about the
          Phoenix
          > > Lights at Phoenix College. I debated Jim Diletosso and others
          about
          > > the sighting. I spoke about the limitations of testing video, due
          to
          > > the lack of resolution and distant light at night and how it would
          > > be almost impossible to use as evidence. When I completed my point
          > > to the crowd, Diletosso leaned over to me and agreed with my
          > > statement. After that perculiar response. I asked him if he did
          > > indeed agree with my statement why did he speak so fondly of his
          > > video analysis?
          > >
          > > "It's showtime!" Was his response.
          > >
          > > I also spoke the truth about Dr Lynn's first book signing debacle
          in
          > > my previous response to Geoff. All you have to do is contact Judy
          > > Varns , she is the assistant State Director for MUFON in Phoenix,
          > > and she will verify what happened that night at the event.
          > >
          > > I was given a private email to contact Dr. Lynn. I asked to meet
          > > with her to discuss the other "side" of the story. I never heard
          > > from her. That is the only time I attempted to contact her.
          > >
          > > If you want to attack my character, I will not respond to any more
          > > of your posts. If you want to talk about facts of the case, I will
          > > be happy to answer any of your questions.
          > >
          > > Just ask yourself one thing though Stuart. Why don't you think the
          > > military flare theory was covered in her book?
          > >
          > > It was only ridiculed.
          > >
          > > James
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4@b...>
          wrote:
          > >>
          > >> List,
          > >>
          > >> In the interview I did with Dr. Lynn for UFO Review, she did
          > >> make mention to me of some individual within the local MUFON
          > >> chapter who drove her away from the organisation and harrassed
          > >> and pestered her, doing everything he possibly could to
          > >> counteract her affectiveness. She spoke guardedly about this
          > >> person and it was left to the reader to draw their own
          > >> conclusions about this person's motives and indeed the state of
          > >> his mental health.
          > >>
          > >> Might that individual by some chance be you James?
          > >>
          > >> Damned disrespectful of her not to listen to you as you appear
          > >> to be the only person around who really knows the truth about
          > >> Phoenix.
          > >>
          > >> It would appear, by inference at least according to you, that
          > >> every light ever seen above that city was a military flare.
          > >>
          > >> You're not on or associated with Phoenix city council are you?
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Stuart Miller
          > >>
          > >> >Hi Geoff,
          > >>
          > >> >Her accounts were only accurate in date and times of the
          > >> >sightings.
          > >>
          > >> >She claimed that she was not comfortable with dealing with the
          > >> >local MUFON chapter because of "infighting" occurring their. In
          > >> >reality, the infighting was caused by Bill Hamilton, whom she
          > >> >uses as a credible source in her book. Hamilton quit MUFON when
          > >> >he accused the State Director of tampering with UFO reports
          > >> >given to him by Peter Davenport about the Phoenix Lights. This
          > >> >was not true. The truth is that Bill Hamilton was about to be
          > >> >removed from his position due to credibility issues about his
          > >> >behaivor. This information was relayed to me from ex State
          > >> >Director Tom Taylor, who has since passed away.
          > >>
          > >> >Dr. Lynn made a wrong judgement about this. Instead of hearing
          > >> >the truth which I offered to give to her, she would not even
          > >> >listen. She joined the cabal of the Jim Diletosso crew and
          > >> >followed down the merry path of believing that he was a
          > >> >professional ufo investigator.
          > >>
          > >> >Another point about Dr Lynn. She never even expands on the
          > >> >military flare theory in her book. She put her trust in Jim
          > >> >Diletosso. That was her biggest mistake.
          > >>
          > >> >One other important point. All of her sightings of lights
          > >> >occurred in direct line of the gunnery range where flares were
          > >> >dropped frequently.
          > >>
          > >> >I guess she forgot to put that in her book.
          > >>
          > >> >James
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
          > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
          > >
          > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Website: http://www.ufonet.nl
          > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@d...
          > >
          > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this
          list
          > > require
          > > further investigation.
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >






          UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
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        • delchay2005
          ... Geoff and Stuart Thank you for the offer Geoff. It you would just provide the link to the Printy article that was on UFO watchdog that would suffice. It is
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 24, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            ---
            Geoff and Stuart


            Thank you for the offer Geoff. It you would just provide the link to
            the Printy article that was on UFO watchdog that would suffice. It is
            the best summation of the events that evening and would give a
            balance to the outragious claims of Jim Dilettoso and his silly, non-
            scientific investigation of the lights.

            I will give Jim credit though. He was a master of manipulating the
            press, which is the real culprit here. Not checking out the
            background of this man and believing in his techniques was a faulty
            judgment of all who believed in the Phoenix Lights case.
            His testing technique of the flare footage was so bizarre and
            inaccurate that it had all of us scratching our collective heads.

            You see, you can't test flare lights and compare them to street
            lamps. Each image has their own grahic make up. Even if they are
            positioned side by side. Diletosso attempted to scam everyone.It is
            impossible to test such footage due to the lack of resolution on
            video tape. He actually admitted that this was correct at the Phoenix
            College debate that we had.

            But the press bought it, and so many other people did too. I was in
            Dick Motzer's film lab and saw his testing methods. They were to be
            commended. He did a frame by frame comparrison on the grainy "V"
            formation, you can acually see independant movement of objects within
            the "V" proving that they were nothing more than a group of planes.

            Of course that was not in Dr. Lynn's book either.

            I sat in Tom King's photo lab and saw how he checked the movement of
            the flare lights in conjunction with wind direction. He then realized
            after first believing that they were orbs, admitting now that they
            were nothing but military flares. That shows credibility to admit
            when your wrong.Tom King was with Bill Hamilton the night of March
            13, 1997 and took extensive footage.

            That was not in Dr Lynn's book either.

            As far as character assasination is concerned. I have given you the
            names of the people that can verify what I have said, It is the truth
            and I stand by my comments.

            I can go on and on about Bill Hamilton too but I won't. I will tell
            you a humerous tid bit though. He did a two part story on the Phoenix
            Lights for UFO magazine a few years ago. He used a photograph of
            supposed flare lights and in the caption it posed the question of "Do
            these look like the Phoenix Lights Flares?" I am paraphrasing the
            question, but it made it seem as though these were flare photos taken
            in Arizona. In reality, they were photos taken in an out-of-state
            military gunnery range and sent to the MUFON State Director to show
            him what flare footage looked like. The picture was sent to him by
            John Schussler. Schussler sent UFO Magazine a letter stating this. Do
            you think Hamilton ever responded? Nope!!!!!!!!!!!

            In Ufology, you have to check the messenger before you believe in the
            message.

            The real mystery of this case involves the earlier 8:30 PM event.
            That is what should be debated now.

            James


            In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Richardson" <Geoffrich@f...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi James,
            > Regardless of what you regard as convenient omissions from Dr.
            Lynn's book I do hope that you have done me the courtesy of at least
            reading the whole of www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
            >
            > On occasion I have found that The WHY? Files have been
            automatically criticised and it is painfully obvious to me that they
            haven't even bothered to read the very content that is being referred
            to( quite common in what some cowardly and self-important people like
            to describe as blogs).
            >
            > Tell you what, James, write a decent critique of Dr. Lynn's book
            and we will publish it on The WHY? Files - it will get at least a
            little attention as we have achieved in excess of 40 million hits in
            18 months.
            >
            > As far as your comments regarding Jim D. are concerned I can tell
            you that about 2 years ago I used the phrase "UFO Community" in a
            posting on a UFO group. I have to tell you that some members of that
            group were quite adamant that the use of the word "community" was
            almost ridiculous after the character assassination that Jim D. had
            recently suffered at the hands of (presumably) your buddies. There
            are two sides (or more) to most stories and this certainly applies to
            Jim D.
            > There you are James, the offer stands - write a decent and accurate
            response and it will be added to the Phoenix Lights page of The WHY?
            Files.
            > Best,
            > Geoff
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: delchay2005
            > To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:31 PM
            > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
            >
            >
            > ---
            > Richard Motzer's triangulation and timeline of events that
            occurred
            > that evening were published in the MUFON UFO journal. Richard
            poured
            > his own money into the investigation and produced a short video
            on
            > the 10:00 PM event. His investigation has been supported by many
            top
            > Ufologists including Bruce Macabbee, a top rearcher in the field.
            He
            > has a whole section devoted to the Phoenix Lights.
            >
            > Did Dr. Lynn cover this in her book. Nope. Not a word. If you are
            > going to write a comprehensive book about this case, would'nt you
            > want to cover both sides of the equation?
            >
            > I have been speaking out on this subject for many years on a
            local
            > level. The incidents I cited to my post to Stuart are the truth
            and
            > can be verified.
            >
            > It is unfortunate that people do not research something and
            > automatically believe what is told to them on television and in
            book
            > form.
            >
            > I think what happened with the Phoenix Lights is there was a
            media
            > frenzy fueled by greed of selling footage taken that night of
            March
            > 13th. I do not think Dr Lynn was a part of that. I think she was
            > duped in believing in a man that should not be taken seriosly as
            a
            > credible UFO investigator.
            >
            > Please go to the UFOwatchdog website. You can read all about Mr.
            > Delettoso in the UFO Hall of Shame section which will provide you
            > eith a link to the investigative report on him by the New Times
            > reporter Tony Ortega.
            >
            > Don't drink the Koolaid on the Phoenix Lights case Geoff, get the
            > facts.
            >
            > James
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, <geoff@t...> wrote:
            > >
            > > James,
            > > My review of Dr. Lynn's book has been published at
            > > http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
            > > for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of other
            > websites,
            > > mailing lists, forums and Amazon Books for the same period.
            > > Why after this length of time do you start to question it?
            > > As far as the flare theory goes I believe that the analysis of
            the
            > flares
            > > (performed by a company in California?) was proven to be
            inaccurate
            > or
            > > possibly even worse that inaccurate. I also believe that a
            comment
            > to this
            > > extent is in Dr. Lynn's book.
            > > As yet I haven't had time to check the exact quote/page.
            > > However, are we debating the events, the book about the events,
            the
            > people
            > > involved in interpreting the events, the people involved in
            writing
            > a book
            > > about the events or my review of the book?
            > > I have lost track. It is fine for you to state that you
            disagree
            > with my
            > > review, no problems there. But to evaluate a book using MUFON
            > politics and
            > > personal differences as guidelines is wrong.
            > > Tell you what, write a review of the book yourself and publish
            it
            > via UFOnet
            > > etc.. and on your own website. That way we can come to some
            > decision
            > > regarding your points of view in the matter.
            > > Cheers,
            > > Geoff
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "delchay2005" <azredant@a...>
            > > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:05 PM
            > > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
            > >
            > >
            > > > --- Stuart and list,
            > > >
            > > > I have never harrassed or pestered anyone in my life. In
            fact, I
            > am
            > > > very well respected in the UFO community in Phoenix. I have
            been
            > on
            > > > local radio, television, and even spoke on a panel about the
            > Phoenix
            > > > Lights at Phoenix College. I debated Jim Diletosso and others
            > about
            > > > the sighting. I spoke about the limitations of testing video,
            due
            > to
            > > > the lack of resolution and distant light at night and how it
            would
            > > > be almost impossible to use as evidence. When I completed my
            point
            > > > to the crowd, Diletosso leaned over to me and agreed with my
            > > > statement. After that perculiar response. I asked him if he
            did
            > > > indeed agree with my statement why did he speak so fondly of
            his
            > > > video analysis?
            > > >
            > > > "It's showtime!" Was his response.
            > > >
            > > > I also spoke the truth about Dr Lynn's first book signing
            debacle
            > in
            > > > my previous response to Geoff. All you have to do is contact
            Judy
            > > > Varns , she is the assistant State Director for MUFON in
            Phoenix,
            > > > and she will verify what happened that night at the event.
            > > >
            > > > I was given a private email to contact Dr. Lynn. I asked to
            meet
            > > > with her to discuss the other "side" of the story. I never
            heard
            > > > from her. That is the only time I attempted to contact her.
            > > >
            > > > If you want to attack my character, I will not respond to any
            more
            > > > of your posts. If you want to talk about facts of the case, I
            will
            > > > be happy to answer any of your questions.
            > > >
            > > > Just ask yourself one thing though Stuart. Why don't you
            think the
            > > > military flare theory was covered in her book?
            > > >
            > > > It was only ridiculed.
            > > >
            > > > James
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Miller
            <Stuart.Miller4@b...>
            > wrote:
            > > >>
            > > >> List,
            > > >>
            > > >> In the interview I did with Dr. Lynn for UFO Review, she did
            > > >> make mention to me of some individual within the local MUFON
            > > >> chapter who drove her away from the organisation and
            harrassed
            > > >> and pestered her, doing everything he possibly could to
            > > >> counteract her affectiveness. She spoke guardedly about this
            > > >> person and it was left to the reader to draw their own
            > > >> conclusions about this person's motives and indeed the state
            of
            > > >> his mental health.
            > > >>
            > > >> Might that individual by some chance be you James?
            > > >>
            > > >> Damned disrespectful of her not to listen to you as you
            appear
            > > >> to be the only person around who really knows the truth about
            > > >> Phoenix.
            > > >>
            > > >> It would appear, by inference at least according to you, that
            > > >> every light ever seen above that city was a military flare.
            > > >>
            > > >> You're not on or associated with Phoenix city council are
            you?
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> Stuart Miller
            > > >>
            > > >> >Hi Geoff,
            > > >>
            > > >> >Her accounts were only accurate in date and times of the
            > > >> >sightings.
            > > >>
            > > >> >She claimed that she was not comfortable with dealing with
            the
            > > >> >local MUFON chapter because of "infighting" occurring
            their. In
            > > >> >reality, the infighting was caused by Bill Hamilton, whom
            she
            > > >> >uses as a credible source in her book. Hamilton quit MUFON
            when
            > > >> >he accused the State Director of tampering with UFO reports
            > > >> >given to him by Peter Davenport about the Phoenix Lights.
            This
            > > >> >was not true. The truth is that Bill Hamilton was about to
            be
            > > >> >removed from his position due to credibility issues about
            his
            > > >> >behaivor. This information was relayed to me from ex State
            > > >> >Director Tom Taylor, who has since passed away.
            > > >>
            > > >> >Dr. Lynn made a wrong judgement about this. Instead of
            hearing
            > > >> >the truth which I offered to give to her, she would not even
            > > >> >listen. She joined the cabal of the Jim Diletosso crew and
            > > >> >followed down the merry path of believing that he was a
            > > >> >professional ufo investigator.
            > > >>
            > > >> >Another point about Dr Lynn. She never even expands on the
            > > >> >military flare theory in her book. She put her trust in Jim
            > > >> >Diletosso. That was her biggest mistake.
            > > >>
            > > >> >One other important point. All of her sightings of lights
            > > >> >occurred in direct line of the gunnery range where flares
            were
            > > >> >dropped frequently.
            > > >>
            > > >> >I guess she forgot to put that in her book.
            > > >>
            > > >> >James
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated
            to:
            > > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
            > > >
            > > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
            > > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
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            > > > require
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            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
            > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
            >
            > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
            > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
            > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Website: http://www.ufonet.nl
            > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@d...
            >
            > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this
            list require
            > further investigation.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Extraterrestrial life Paranormal phenomena
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            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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            >
            > a.. Visit your group "ufonet" on the web.
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            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Geoff Richardson
            ... From: delchay2005 To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book ... James
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 24, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: delchay2005
              To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:27 PM
              Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book


              ---
              James wrote:
              The real mystery of this case involves the earlier 8:30 PM event.
              That is what should be debated now.

              Exactly, both before and after the event which is known as The Phoenix Lights there were, in my limited opinion, events which seem to be conveniently ignored.


              James, I won't provide a link to UFO Watchdog as Royce did, in fact, make a very inaccurate remark about The WHY? Files some years ago.
              It didn't really bother me at the time as it was said in passing to someone else in an email. However, what bothers me is just what would he make of someone else who made a similar error? Jump on them from a great height?

              Best,
              Geoff


              In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Richardson" <Geoffrich@f...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi James,
              > Regardless of what you regard as convenient omissions from Dr.
              Lynn's book I do hope that you have done me the courtesy of at least
              reading the whole of www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
              >
              > On occasion I have found that The WHY? Files have been
              automatically criticised and it is painfully obvious to me that they
              haven't even bothered to read the very content that is being referred
              to( quite common in what some cowardly and self-important people like
              to describe as blogs).
              >
              > Tell you what, James, write a decent critique of Dr. Lynn's book
              and we will publish it on The WHY? Files - it will get at least a
              little attention as we have achieved in excess of 40 million hits in
              18 months.
              >
              > As far as your comments regarding Jim D. are concerned I can tell
              you that about 2 years ago I used the phrase "UFO Community" in a
              posting on a UFO group. I have to tell you that some members of that
              group were quite adamant that the use of the word "community" was
              almost ridiculous after the character assassination that Jim D. had
              recently suffered at the hands of (presumably) your buddies. There
              are two sides (or more) to most stories and this certainly applies to
              Jim D.
              > There you are James, the offer stands - write a decent and accurate
              response and it will be added to the Phoenix Lights page of The WHY?
              Files.
              > Best,
              > Geoff
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: delchay2005
              > To: ufonet@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:31 PM
              > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
              >
              >
              > ---
              > Richard Motzer's triangulation and timeline of events that
              occurred
              > that evening were published in the MUFON UFO journal. Richard
              poured
              > his own money into the investigation and produced a short video
              on
              > the 10:00 PM event. His investigation has been supported by many
              top
              > Ufologists including Bruce Macabbee, a top rearcher in the field.
              He
              > has a whole section devoted to the Phoenix Lights.
              >
              > Did Dr. Lynn cover this in her book. Nope. Not a word. If you are
              > going to write a comprehensive book about this case, would'nt you
              > want to cover both sides of the equation?
              >
              > I have been speaking out on this subject for many years on a
              local
              > level. The incidents I cited to my post to Stuart are the truth
              and
              > can be verified.
              >
              > It is unfortunate that people do not research something and
              > automatically believe what is told to them on television and in
              book
              > form.
              >
              > I think what happened with the Phoenix Lights is there was a
              media
              > frenzy fueled by greed of selling footage taken that night of
              March
              > 13th. I do not think Dr Lynn was a part of that. I think she was
              > duped in believing in a man that should not be taken seriosly as
              a
              > credible UFO investigator.
              >
              > Please go to the UFOwatchdog website. You can read all about Mr.
              > Delettoso in the UFO Hall of Shame section which will provide you
              > eith a link to the investigative report on him by the New Times
              > reporter Tony Ortega.
              >
              > Don't drink the Koolaid on the Phoenix Lights case Geoff, get the
              > facts.
              >
              > James
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, <geoff@t...> wrote:
              > >
              > > James,
              > > My review of Dr. Lynn's book has been published at
              > > http://www.thewhyfiles.net/phoenixlights.htm
              > > for about two years. Plus it has appeared on a number of other
              > websites,
              > > mailing lists, forums and Amazon Books for the same period.
              > > Why after this length of time do you start to question it?
              > > As far as the flare theory goes I believe that the analysis of
              the
              > flares
              > > (performed by a company in California?) was proven to be
              inaccurate
              > or
              > > possibly even worse that inaccurate. I also believe that a
              comment
              > to this
              > > extent is in Dr. Lynn's book.
              > > As yet I haven't had time to check the exact quote/page.
              > > However, are we debating the events, the book about the events,
              the
              > people
              > > involved in interpreting the events, the people involved in
              writing
              > a book
              > > about the events or my review of the book?
              > > I have lost track. It is fine for you to state that you
              disagree
              > with my
              > > review, no problems there. But to evaluate a book using MUFON
              > politics and
              > > personal differences as guidelines is wrong.
              > > Tell you what, write a review of the book yourself and publish
              it
              > via UFOnet
              > > etc.. and on your own website. That way we can come to some
              > decision
              > > regarding your points of view in the matter.
              > > Cheers,
              > > Geoff
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "delchay2005" <azredant@a...>
              > > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:05 PM
              > > Subject: [UFOnet] Re: The Phoenix Lights Case and book
              > >
              > >
              > > > --- Stuart and list,
              > > >
              > > > I have never harrassed or pestered anyone in my life. In
              fact, I
              > am
              > > > very well respected in the UFO community in Phoenix. I have
              been
              > on
              > > > local radio, television, and even spoke on a panel about the
              > Phoenix
              > > > Lights at Phoenix College. I debated Jim Diletosso and others
              > about
              > > > the sighting. I spoke about the limitations of testing video,
              due
              > to
              > > > the lack of resolution and distant light at night and how it
              would
              > > > be almost impossible to use as evidence. When I completed my
              point
              > > > to the crowd, Diletosso leaned over to me and agreed with my
              > > > statement. After that perculiar response. I asked him if he
              did
              > > > indeed agree with my statement why did he speak so fondly of
              his
              > > > video analysis?
              > > >
              > > > "It's showtime!" Was his response.
              > > >
              > > > I also spoke the truth about Dr Lynn's first book signing
              debacle
              > in
              > > > my previous response to Geoff. All you have to do is contact
              Judy
              > > > Varns , she is the assistant State Director for MUFON in
              Phoenix,
              > > > and she will verify what happened that night at the event.
              > > >
              > > > I was given a private email to contact Dr. Lynn. I asked to
              meet
              > > > with her to discuss the other "side" of the story. I never
              heard
              > > > from her. That is the only time I attempted to contact her.
              > > >
              > > > If you want to attack my character, I will not respond to any
              more
              > > > of your posts. If you want to talk about facts of the case, I
              will
              > > > be happy to answer any of your questions.
              > > >
              > > > Just ask yourself one thing though Stuart. Why don't you
              think the
              > > > military flare theory was covered in her book?
              > > >
              > > > It was only ridiculed.
              > > >
              > > > James
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > In ufonet@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Miller
              <Stuart.Miller4@b...>
              > wrote:
              > > >>
              > > >> List,
              > > >>
              > > >> In the interview I did with Dr. Lynn for UFO Review, she did
              > > >> make mention to me of some individual within the local MUFON
              > > >> chapter who drove her away from the organisation and
              harrassed
              > > >> and pestered her, doing everything he possibly could to
              > > >> counteract her affectiveness. She spoke guardedly about this
              > > >> person and it was left to the reader to draw their own
              > > >> conclusions about this person's motives and indeed the state
              of
              > > >> his mental health.
              > > >>
              > > >> Might that individual by some chance be you James?
              > > >>
              > > >> Damned disrespectful of her not to listen to you as you
              appear
              > > >> to be the only person around who really knows the truth about
              > > >> Phoenix.
              > > >>
              > > >> It would appear, by inference at least according to you, that
              > > >> every light ever seen above that city was a military flare.
              > > >>
              > > >> You're not on or associated with Phoenix city council are
              you?
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> Stuart Miller
              > > >>
              > > >> >Hi Geoff,
              > > >>
              > > >> >Her accounts were only accurate in date and times of the
              > > >> >sightings.
              > > >>
              > > >> >She claimed that she was not comfortable with dealing with
              the
              > > >> >local MUFON chapter because of "infighting" occurring
              their. In
              > > >> >reality, the infighting was caused by Bill Hamilton, whom
              she
              > > >> >uses as a credible source in her book. Hamilton quit MUFON
              when
              > > >> >he accused the State Director of tampering with UFO reports
              > > >> >given to him by Peter Davenport about the Phoenix Lights.
              This
              > > >> >was not true. The truth is that Bill Hamilton was about to
              be
              > > >> >removed from his position due to credibility issues about
              his
              > > >> >behaivor. This information was relayed to me from ex State
              > > >> >Director Tom Taylor, who has since passed away.
              > > >>
              > > >> >Dr. Lynn made a wrong judgement about this. Instead of
              hearing
              > > >> >the truth which I offered to give to her, she would not even
              > > >> >listen. She joined the cabal of the Jim Diletosso crew and
              > > >> >followed down the merry path of believing that he was a
              > > >> >professional ufo investigator.
              > > >>
              > > >> >Another point about Dr Lynn. She never even expands on the
              > > >> >military flare theory in her book. She put her trust in Jim
              > > >> >Diletosso. That was her biggest mistake.
              > > >>
              > > >> >One other important point. All of her sightings of lights
              > > >> >occurred in direct line of the gunnery range where flares
              were
              > > >> >dropped frequently.
              > > >>
              > > >> >I guess she forgot to put that in her book.
              > > >>
              > > >> >James
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated
              to:
              > > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
              > > >
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              > > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to
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              > list
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              > > > further investigation.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
              > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
              >
              > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
              > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
              > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Website: http://www.ufonet.nl
              > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@d...
              >
              > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this
              list require
              > further investigation.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS Extraterrestrial life Paranormal phenomena
              Unidentified flying objects
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              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "ufonet" on the web.
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              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >







              UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
              UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.

              To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
              ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
              ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Website: http://www.ufonet.nl
              Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...

              Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list require
              further investigation.






              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

              a.. Visit your group "ufonet" on the web.

              b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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