Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH

Expand Messages
  • Alfred Lehmberg
    Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy Connors Sixth Compilation of Ufological Aural History by Alfred Lehmberg www.AlienView.net Wendy Connors
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy Connors' Sixth
      Compilation of Ufological Aural History
      by Alfred Lehmberg
      www.AlienView.net


      Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to produce the quality
      ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if worryingly race-running pace.
      Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the truly monumental
      ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus some cogent but
      alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis...), she puts in
      _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological history series a high
      ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding contribution to it! She
      illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken sidebar, every reason
      one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous activities of Philip J.
      Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP storm-trooper, and
      specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics? In my opinion,
      decidedly, no.


      Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and forgetting that he is at the
      tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our hijacked mainstream
      communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially instrumental to, and so
      holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_ responsibility... for the tragic
      suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this review's hinge pin,
      nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.


      I think it can be argued, reader, that there is metaphoric blood on Mr.
      Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others, Klass' obtuse
      blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless, absolutely fraudulent,
      and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence, character,
      intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well known and require no
      citation.


      James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a conjectured "Mothman
      Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism is a rational person
      who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and, in a passionate
      investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up paying an awful 'price'
      for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's demanded by the
      'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous non-elected... "them," to put
      a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are... please. Please.


      This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader. McDonald lost a
      shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife and six kids), and then
      finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely desert, hounded by the
      capering trolls and ardent apologists of a disingenuous and corrupted
      mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber bullet into his brain.


      ...


      To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by ALL the quality
      ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless pressed, by the
      opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the latter, Dr. McDonald
      actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and researchers only pretend
      to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and courageous surveyors
      of our inevitable and fast approaching future ... incisive scouts and
      intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience, knowledge, wisdom, and
      enlightenment!


      A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr. McDonald provides the
      listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience where he lays out, in a
      cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the case for UFOs and the
      extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject failure of Science,
      Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address UFOs in a _remotely_
      intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent, biased, and sullenly
      canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_... and referenced today...
      inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful magnitude of the
      terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly against our intrepid
      Doctor...


      Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here, James Edward McDonald
      held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State University in the
      early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an assistant professor in
      meteorology. Additionally, he was a research physicist in the University of
      Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the University of Arizona
      faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a _full_ professor in the
      real-world department of meteorology. Full professorships in moneyed
      academic departments from world-class Universities are not handed out like
      happy meals.


      McDonald was also a senior physicist in the University's Institute of
      Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director and scientific
      director... where he was a preferred advisor to numerous federal agencies,
      including the National Science Foundation, the Office of Naval Research, the
      National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental Science Service
      Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign government, the price tag
      would have been in the high nine figures. This individual was a world-class
      act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a hard-nosed
      researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd also, along with his wife,
      seen a UFO!


      It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's worst nightmare. He was a
      brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic, color' with age,
      experience, and reputation. He could say, and very well, exactly what he
      meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good reader... he wore an
      academic 'badge'!


      It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed. ...And he was. Verily.
      Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).


      Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and compelling speaker
      with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal ufologist Richard Hall,
      and, as the listener will discover, constructively humorous. He was even
      able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition (likely his most
      unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his back-shooting, corner-sniping
      and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even today, the totality of
      their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with reasonable examples,
      faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or pertinent conjectures based
      on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr. McDonald was legend to be
      able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are enabled to hear that for
      themselves...


      McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs, unfortunately, but did
      produce several short pieces on his series of lectures and presentations
      made to learned colleagues and other professional persons. These talks
      included explications on:


      1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22 Years of Inadequate UFO
      Investigations


      2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ... thoughts on perceiving a
      cover-up.


      3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar Returns


      4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's Critique on Condon's
      validity and procedure.


      5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee on Science.
      Debunking the debunkers.


      This is a hint of what the listener is treated to... sober and intelligent
      reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or histrionics... just
      straight science as pure as the garden variety skeptibunky (Klass et al)
      would _purport_ to want to have it!


      Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even _yesterday_ against the
      state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of today, and be not too
      surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
      day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless faux-skepticisms still trotted
      out currently with insentient and numbing regularity were asked and
      answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and invalidated decades ago
      by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides you with a primary
      reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs _are_ real!


      ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's current compilation!


      ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media journalists who had
      respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and who believed that an
      _informed_ public was the one best served. Not resorting to cheap-shots,
      easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the subject of UFOs
      squarely in the street during an incisive thirty minute radio program... as
      valid today as it was in 1950!


      ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead in 1970, a British
      Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief in the ETH (a belief
      maintained until the end of his life) on August 9, 1954.


      ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public affairs program from 1960
      where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton University moderates an
      _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The subject, "Are Flying
      Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
      Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr. Frank Saltzburg and
      researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey, obfuscating, evasive, and
      _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why. Reflect on why he would be
      the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists _really_ do as they
      want?


      That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth on UFOs and
      extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates on them! Dr. Ivan T.
      Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner cogitates in their
      regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly expounds! Wow!


      That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change, total time, awaits the
      open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener. ...And _be_
      curious... good reader!


      Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to challenge the unknown; by
      becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our society; you help to re-take
      our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate the specious
      pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his capering coterie of cultish
      apologists, men who have always resorted to character assassination,
      baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when they can't debate their
      worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and are keen, only, upon
      grinding their own duplicitous axes...


      ...And who can blame them... standing tall only insures their demise... real
      debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only provides for the
      righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I don't _care_ what
      their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not shared with _me_, and
      so are then unacceptable, on spec!


      That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists stand in the way of human
      progression with their senseless and obstinate obliviousness, that they
      ignore recorded history, or that they connive to despoil, degrade, and
      destroy their betters... are reasons enough to discredit them -- provide for
      _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy, such as it is! Yea
      and Verily!


      Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample historical evidence for the
      validity of all the preceding contentions in her latest compilation, "James
      E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The listener should not be
      disappointed...


      More info and purchase information can be found contacting Wendy Connors at:
      wendy@... ... Read on!



      alienview@...

      www.AlienView.net
    • David Ocame
      Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 30, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in
        how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I
        can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
        the author of this email blames Phil Klass for it. The
        rest is mostly ramblings and convolutions that make no
        sense whether you read it forwards or in reverse!

        And just how is Phil Klass to blame for McDonald's
        death? Was he even there at the time? Or, are you
        saying that Phil's criticism pushed McDonald to take
        his own life. Oh well! Too bad if McDonald couldn't
        take it.

        There seems to be a lack of understanding in how
        science works. Here. let me show you.
        You make a statement, or a claim. You back it up with
        whatever evidence you have. Then you publish it. At
        that point, your statement or claim is subject to
        intense scrutiny and criticism. That how science
        proceeds and how it progresses. That's how scientist
        separate the good science from the bad.

        So far, all that's been seen from the UFO community is
        bad science...and writing. If you can call it science,
        or writing. You want people to start listening? Start
        doing good science and CLEAR writing. That is the only
        way you will ever have credibility and acceptance.

        Stop bellyaching, and get to work.

        Dave Ocame


        --- Alfred Lehmberg <alienview@...> wrote:


        ---------------------------------
        Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy
        Connors' Sixth
        Compilation of Ufological Aural History
        by Alfred Lehmberg
        www.AlienView.net


        Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to
        produce the quality
        ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if
        worryingly race-running pace.
        Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the
        truly monumental
        ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus
        some cogent but
        alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial
        Hypothesis...), she puts in
        _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological
        history series a high
        ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding
        contribution to it! She
        illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken
        sidebar, every reason
        one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous
        activities of Philip J.
        Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP
        storm-trooper, and
        specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics?
        In my opinion,
        decidedly, no.


        Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and
        forgetting that he is at the
        tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our
        hijacked mainstream
        communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially
        instrumental to, and so
        holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_
        responsibility... for the tragic
        suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this
        review's hinge pin,
        nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.


        I think it can be argued, reader, that there is
        metaphoric blood on Mr.
        Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others,
        Klass' obtuse
        blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless,
        absolutely fraudulent,
        and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence,
        character,
        intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well
        known and require no
        citation.


        James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a
        conjectured "Mothman
        Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism
        is a rational person
        who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and,
        in a passionate
        investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up
        paying an awful 'price'
        for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's
        demanded by the
        'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous
        non-elected... "them," to put
        a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are...
        please. Please.


        This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader.
        McDonald lost a
        shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife
        and six kids), and then
        finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely
        desert, hounded by the
        capering trolls and ardent apologists of a
        disingenuous and corrupted
        mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber
        bullet into his brain.


        ...


        To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by
        ALL the quality
        ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless
        pressed, by the
        opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the
        latter, Dr. McDonald
        actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and
        researchers only pretend
        to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and
        courageous surveyors
        of our inevitable and fast approaching future ...
        incisive scouts and
        intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience,
        knowledge, wisdom, and
        enlightenment!


        A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr.
        McDonald provides the
        listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience
        where he lays out, in a
        cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the
        case for UFOs and the
        extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject
        failure of Science,
        Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address
        UFOs in a _remotely_
        intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent,
        biased, and sullenly
        canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_...
        and referenced today...
        inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful
        magnitude of the
        terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly
        against our intrepid
        Doctor...


        Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here,
        James Edward McDonald
        held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State
        University in the
        early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an
        assistant professor in
        meteorology. Additionally, he was a research
        physicist in the University of
        Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the
        University of Arizona
        faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a
        _full_ professor in the
        real-world department of meteorology. Full
        professorships in moneyed
        academic departments from world-class Universities are
        not handed out like
        happy meals.


        McDonald was also a senior physicist in the
        University's Institute of
        Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director
        and scientific
        director... where he was a preferred advisor to
        numerous federal agencies,
        including the National Science Foundation, the Office
        of Naval Research, the
        National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental
        Science Service
        Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign
        government, the price tag
        would have been in the high nine figures. This
        individual was a world-class
        act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a
        hard-nosed
        researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd
        also, along with his wife,
        seen a UFO!


        It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's
        worst nightmare. He was a
        brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic,
        color' with age,
        experience, and reputation. He could say, and very
        well, exactly what he
        meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good
        reader... he wore an
        academic 'badge'!


        It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed.
        ...And he was. Verily.
        Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).


        Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and
        compelling speaker
        with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal
        ufologist Richard Hall,
        and, as the listener will discover, constructively
        humorous. He was even
        able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition
        (likely his most
        unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his
        back-shooting, corner-sniping
        and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even
        today, the totality of
        their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with
        reasonable examples,
        faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or
        pertinent conjectures based
        on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr.
        McDonald was legend to be
        able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are
        enabled to hear that for
        themselves...


        McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs,
        unfortunately, but did
        produce several short pieces on his series of lectures
        and presentations
        made to learned colleagues and other professional
        persons. These talks
        included explications on:


        1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22
        Years of Inadequate UFO
        Investigations


        2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ...
        thoughts on perceiving a
        cover-up.


        3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar
        Returns


        4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's
        Critique on Condon's
        validity and procedure.


        5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee
        on Science.
        Debunking the debunkers.


        This is a hint of what the listener is treated to...
        sober and intelligent
        reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or
        histrionics... just
        straight science as pure as the garden variety
        skeptibunky (Klass et al)
        would _purport_ to want to have it!


        Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even
        _yesterday_ against the
        state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of
        today, and be not too
        surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
        day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless
        faux-skepticisms still trotted
        out currently with insentient and numbing regularity
        were asked and
        answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and
        invalidated decades ago
        by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides
        you with a primary
        reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs
        _are_ real!


        ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's
        current compilation!


        ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media
        journalists who had
        respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and
        who believed that an
        _informed_ public was the one best served. Not
        resorting to cheap-shots,
        easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the
        subject of UFOs
        squarely in the street during an incisive thirty
        minute radio program... as
        valid today as it was in 1950!


        ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead
        in 1970, a British
        Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief
        in the ETH (a belief
        maintained until the end of his life) on August 9,
        1954.


        ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public
        affairs program from 1960
        where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton
        University moderates an
        _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The
        subject, "Are Flying
        Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by
        guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
        Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr.
        Frank Saltzburg and
        researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey,
        obfuscating, evasive, and
        _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why.
        Reflect on why he would be
        the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists
        _really_ do as they
        want?


        That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth
        on UFOs and
        extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates
        on them! Dr. Ivan T.
        Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner
        cogitates in their
        regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly
        expounds! Wow!


        That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change,
        total time, awaits the
        open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener.
        ...And _be_
        curious... good reader!


        Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to
        challenge the unknown; by
        becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our
        society; you help to re-take
        our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate
        the specious
        pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his
        capering coterie of cultish
        apologists, men who have always resorted to character
        assassination,
        baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when
        they can't debate their
        worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and
        are keen, only, upon
        grinding their own duplicitous axes...


        ...And who can blame them... standing tall only
        insures their demise... real
        debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only
        provides for the
        righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I
        don't _care_ what
        their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not
        shared with _me_, and
        so are then unacceptable, on spec!


        That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists
        stand in the way of human
        progression with their senseless and obstinate
        obliviousness, that they
        ignore recorded history, or that they connive to
        despoil, degrade, and
        destroy their betters... are reasons enough to
        discredit them -- provide for
        _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy,
        such as it is! Yea
        and Verily!


        Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample
        historical evidence for the
        validity of all the preceding contentions in her
        latest compilation, "James
        E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The
        listener should not be
        disappointed...


        More info and purchase information can be found
        contacting Wendy Connors at:
        wendy@... ... Read on!



        alienview@...

        www.AlienView.net



        UFOnet is an international news and discussion list
        dedicated to:
        UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the
        Paranormal.

        To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
        ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
        ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
        Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...


        Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted
        to this list require
        further investigation.





        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/

        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        Terms of Service.



        =====
        ***********************************
        ***********************************

        Dave Ocame, N1YVV

        East Shore Park Observatory
        FN31ng
        -72.53856 longitude
        41.16797 latitude
      • Stuart Miller
        David, Sorry, but you have Alfred Lehmberg wrong. He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English language, admittedly in a somewhat flowery vein at
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 30, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          David,

          Sorry, but you have Alfred Lehmberg wrong.

          He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English
          language, admittedly in a somewhat flowery vein at times, but
          always articulate.

          I think the use of the word "metaphorical" probably lets him off
          the hook in terms of accusing Klass of responsibility for
          MacDonald's death. Anyone who knows MacDonald's life story will
          know the reasons why he took his own life.

          Your diatribe about "science" is just that. Alfred knows all
          about science and how it has admirably served the UFO community
          -not.

          Pray tell, what are you doing as a scientist to advance the
          cause of ufology? Or are you a complete sceptic who wishes to
          prove the whole thing is a waste of time?

          Stuart Miller

          --- David Ocame <docame@...> wrote:

          ---------------------------------
          Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in
          how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I
          can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
          the author of this email blames Phil Klass for it. The
          rest is mostly ramblings and convolutions that make no
          sense whether you read it forwards or in reverse!

          And just how is Phil Klass to blame for McDonald's
          death? Was he even there at the time? Or, are you
          saying that Phil's criticism pushed McDonald to take
          his own life. Oh well! Too bad if McDonald couldn't
          take it.

          There seems to be a lack of understanding in how
          science works. Here. let me show you.
          You make a statement, or a claim. You back it up with
          whatever evidence you have. Then you publish it. At
          that point, your statement or claim is subject to
          intense scrutiny and criticism. That how science
          proceeds and how it progresses. That's how scientist
          separate the good science from the bad.

          So far, all that's been seen from the UFO community is
          bad science...and writing. If you can call it science,
          or writing. You want people to start listening? Start
          doing good science and CLEAR writing. That is the only
          way you will ever have credibility and acceptance.

          Stop bellyaching, and get to work.

          Dave Ocame


          --- Alfred Lehmberg <alienview@...> wrote:


          ---------------------------------
          Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy
          Connors' Sixth
          Compilation of Ufological Aural History
          by Alfred Lehmberg
          www.AlienView.net


          Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to
          produce the quality
          ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if
          worryingly race-running pace.
          Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the
          truly monumental
          ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus
          some cogent but
          alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial
          Hypothesis...), she puts in
          _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological
          history series a high
          ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding
          contribution to it! She
          illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken
          sidebar, every reason
          one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous
          activities of Philip J.
          Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP
          storm-trooper, and
          specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics?
          In my opinion,
          decidedly, no.


          Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and
          forgetting that he is at the
          tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our
          hijacked mainstream
          communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially
          instrumental to, and so
          holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_
          responsibility... for the tragic
          suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this
          review's hinge pin,
          nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.


          I think it can be argued, reader, that there is
          metaphoric blood on Mr.
          Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others,
          Klass' obtuse
          blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless,
          absolutely fraudulent,
          and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence,
          character,
          intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well
          known and require no
          citation.


          James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a
          conjectured "Mothman
          Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism
          is a rational person
          who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and,
          in a passionate
          investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up
          paying an awful 'price'
          for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's
          demanded by the
          'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous
          non-elected... "them," to put
          a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are...
          please. Please.


          This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader.
          McDonald lost a
          shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife
          and six kids), and then
          finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely
          desert, hounded by the
          capering trolls and ardent apologists of a
          disingenuous and corrupted
          mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber
          bullet into his brain.


          ...


          To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by
          ALL the quality
          ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless
          pressed, by the
          opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the
          latter, Dr. McDonald
          actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and
          researchers only pretend
          to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and
          courageous surveyors
          of our inevitable and fast approaching future ...
          incisive scouts and
          intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience,
          knowledge, wisdom, and
          enlightenment!


          A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr.
          McDonald provides the
          listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience
          where he lays out, in a
          cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the
          case for UFOs and the
          extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject
          failure of Science,
          Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address
          UFOs in a _remotely_
          intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent,
          biased, and sullenly
          canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_...
          and referenced today...
          inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful
          magnitude of the
          terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly
          against our intrepid
          Doctor...


          Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here,
          James Edward McDonald
          held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State
          University in the
          early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an
          assistant professor in
          meteorology. Additionally, he was a research
          physicist in the University of
          Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the
          University of Arizona
          faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a
          _full_ professor in the
          real-world department of meteorology. Full
          professorships in moneyed
          academic departments from world-class Universities are
          not handed out like
          happy meals.


          McDonald was also a senior physicist in the
          University's Institute of
          Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director
          and scientific
          director... where he was a preferred advisor to
          numerous federal agencies,
          including the National Science Foundation, the Office
          of Naval Research, the
          National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental
          Science Service
          Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign
          government, the price tag
          would have been in the high nine figures. This
          individual was a world-class
          act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a
          hard-nosed
          researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd
          also, along with his wife,
          seen a UFO!


          It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's
          worst nightmare. He was a
          brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic,
          color' with age,
          experience, and reputation. He could say, and very
          well, exactly what he
          meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good
          reader... he wore an
          academic 'badge'!


          It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed.
          ...And he was. Verily.
          Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).


          Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and
          compelling speaker
          with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal
          ufologist Richard Hall,
          and, as the listener will discover, constructively
          humorous. He was even
          able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition
          (likely his most
          unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his
          back-shooting, corner-sniping
          and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even
          today, the totality of
          their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with
          reasonable examples,
          faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or
          pertinent conjectures based
          on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr.
          McDonald was legend to be
          able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are
          enabled to hear that for
          themselves...


          McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs,
          unfortunately, but did
          produce several short pieces on his series of lectures
          and presentations
          made to learned colleagues and other professional
          persons. These talks
          included explications on:


          1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22
          Years of Inadequate UFO
          Investigations


          2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ...
          thoughts on perceiving a
          cover-up.


          3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar
          Returns


          4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's
          Critique on Condon's
          validity and procedure.


          5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee
          on Science.
          Debunking the debunkers.


          This is a hint of what the listener is treated to...
          sober and intelligent
          reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or
          histrionics... just
          straight science as pure as the garden variety
          skeptibunky (Klass et al)
          would _purport_ to want to have it!


          Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even
          _yesterday_ against the
          state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of
          today, and be not too
          surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
          day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless
          faux-skepticisms still trotted
          out currently with insentient and numbing regularity
          were asked and
          answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and
          invalidated decades ago
          by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides
          you with a primary
          reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs
          _are_ real!


          ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's
          current compilation!


          ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media
          journalists who had
          respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and
          who believed that an
          _informed_ public was the one best served. Not
          resorting to cheap-shots,
          easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the
          subject of UFOs
          squarely in the street during an incisive thirty
          minute radio program... as
          valid today as it was in 1950!


          ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead
          in 1970, a British
          Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief
          in the ETH (a belief
          maintained until the end of his life) on August 9,
          1954.


          ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public
          affairs program from 1960
          where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton
          University moderates an
          _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The
          subject, "Are Flying
          Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by
          guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
          Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr.
          Frank Saltzburg and
          researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey,
          obfuscating, evasive, and
          _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why.
          Reflect on why he would be
          the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists
          _really_ do as they
          want?


          That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth
          on UFOs and
          extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates
          on them! Dr. Ivan T.
          Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner
          cogitates in their
          regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly
          expounds! Wow!


          That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change,
          total time, awaits the
          open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener.
          ...And _be_
          curious... good reader!


          Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to
          challenge the unknown; by
          becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our
          society; you help to re-take
          our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate
          the specious
          pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his
          capering coterie of cultish
          apologists, men who have always resorted to character
          assassination,
          baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when
          they can't debate their
          worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and
          are keen, only, upon
          grinding their own duplicitous axes...


          ...And who can blame them... standing tall only
          insures their demise... real
          debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only
          provides for the
          righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I
          don't _care_ what
          their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not
          shared with _me_, and
          so are then unacceptable, on spec!


          That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists
          stand in the way of human
          progression with their senseless and obstinate
          obliviousness, that they
          ignore recorded history, or that they connive to
          despoil, degrade, and
          destroy their betters... are reasons enough to
          discredit them -- provide for
          _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy,
          such as it is! Yea
          and Verily!


          Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample
          historical evidence for the
          validity of all the preceding contentions in her
          latest compilation, "James
          E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The
          listener should not be
          disappointed...


          More info and purchase information can be found
          contacting Wendy Connors at:
          wendy@... ... Read on!



          alienview@...

          www.AlienView.net



          UFOnet is an international news and discussion list
          dedicated to:
          UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the
          Paranormal.

          To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
          Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...


          Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted
          to this list require
          further investigation.





          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          Terms of Service.



          =====
          ***********************************
          ***********************************

          Dave Ocame, N1YVV

          East Shore Park Observatory
          FN31ng
          -72.53856 longitude
          41.16797 latitude





          UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated
          to:
          UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.

          To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
          ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
          Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...

          Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this
          list require
          further investigation.





          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT


          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
        • David Ocame
          Oh, hey Stu. How s it going? Struck a nerve did I? No, I think I have Alfred dead on. He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English language,
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 30, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Oh, hey Stu. How's it going? Struck a nerve did I?

            No, I think I have Alfred dead on.

            He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English
            language,

            Lucid? Did you and I read the same passage?
            Lucid: 1. easily understood 2. Mentally sound: sane. Webster's II University Edition.
            Sorry, but nothing Alfred wrote fits this definition.

            I think the use of the word "metaphorical" probably lets him off
            the hook in terms of accusing Klass of responsibility for
            MacDonald's death. Anyone who knows MacDonald's life story will
            know the reasons why he took his own life.

            However, Aflred clearly blames Phil Klass for it. This is not metaphorism, this is assignment of blame. It lets him off no hooks.

            Your diatribe about "science" is just that.

            D-i-a-t-r-i-b-e...diatribe: Bitterly abusive criticism or denunciation. also from Webster's

            I was certainly critical, this was intentional. But bitter?....no. In fact, I was laughing as I wrote it. I knew people would either not bother to listen to me, or someone would argue. Guess where you fit in, Stu?

            Alfred knows all about science

            No, now we've already covered this, Stu. Alfred has demonstrated his inability to understand science.

            and how it has admirably served the UFO community
            -not.

            Science certainly has served all communities. If only you would listen and learn what science is saying. It is a sad fact, that all human society on this planet undervalues it's scientists (witness my paycheck). Our dear U.S. President Bush is a fine example of that. He still completely ignores warnings that we are causing global warming. Our negative effect on our planet is a sad truth. Yet, you cannot live without us! You would all still be living to the ripe old age of 20, but for scientists. The same is true for the UFO community, if only you would listen.

            No, we have not given in and said, "ok, you are right. UFOs exist." What we have done is shown how you have not one shred of evidence that biological extraterrestrials are flying spaceships through our atmosphere. Instead of taking that as the challenge it is, you mistook it as insult.

            Pray tell, what are you doing as a scientist to advance the
            cause of ufology?

            I am a scientist working in a real lab. In fact, I am in Neurochemistry, working with epilepsy patients. I get paid to do science because I am good at it. I've been doing it for the past 30 years. I do nothing to advance ufology. As I said, I am a scientist. Ufology is NOT a science. When you want it to be a science, let me know and I will help.

            Or are you a complete sceptic who wishes to
            prove the whole thing is a waste of time?

            As a matter of fact, being a skeptic is not the evil thing you make it out to be. Sure, skeptics doubt and raise questions. This is a bad thing? Skeptics simply seek proof through direct evidence. Truth is, I can't say UFOs (as driven by intelligent aliens) exist or don't exist. There's no evidence for or against them. But, when I come home from work, I spend most of my free time searching for this evidence. I've invested $1000s of my own money developing equipment to aid me in this search. At least I do that much. At least I do that much.

            Thanks, Dave Ocame





            ***********************************
            ***********************************

            Dave Ocame, N1YVV

            East Shore Park Observatory
            FN31ng
            -72.53856 longitude
            41.16797 latitude




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Ocame
            I said nothing about UFOs driven by intelligent humans. I said intelligent aliens. UFOlogy is not a science. Scientists have to take the good with the bad.
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 30, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              I said nothing about UFOs driven by intelligent humans. I said intelligent aliens.

              UFOlogy is not a science. Scientists have to take the good with the bad. Their theories must stand up to intense scrutiny by being published in peer reviewed journals. Peer reviewed means that before they even get published, the papers are sent out to be reviewed by other scientists. If those scientists find the paper does not prove its claim by a preponderance of evidence, the paper does not get published. It's this kind of review process that keeps bad science from getting getting out.

              UFOlogy does not have this. Yes, Ufologists do publish papers and write books. But they are certainly not scrutinized by other scientists first. UFOLogy also seems to entail a lot of belief. People believe in UFOs. Belief is not good enough for scientists. Belief implies an overwhelming persistence of ideas without direct evidence.

              This is fine for churches. Let me be clear here. I have nothing against churches and religion (ok, yes I do. The bloodiest wars in human history have been fought in the name of religion. Anyone wanting to argue that point should look at what we are doing in Iraq and Afganistan today. But, that has nothing to do with my point). Religion and science have nothing to do with each other. I, myself, have been known to sit inside a pew or two. But, I am clear that I keep the two separate.

              Science is not a belief system, it is a proof system. Period.

              I do not believe in aliens (ETs). I can't. I've never met one, never seen its dead body nor its crashed spaceship. But, I am clear that there is overwhelming mathematical probability for their existence due to the tremendous number of stars and galaxies in this universe. It would be absurd to think there was no other life and intelligent life in the universe. I seek to find the evidence that proves this view correct. When I find it, then I will believe it.

              Lastly, as far as the Corpus Callosum is concerned. I don't think I understand your question. Sure there's a circuit breaker..it's called a scalpel. Were you looking for something different?

              Thanks,
              Dave

              "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@...> wrote:
              its

              So what about UFOs driven by intelligent humans?

              Ufology is a science. There's also pseudoufology.

              So is there some kind of circuit breaker for the corpus callosum?

              -Aut



              ***********************************
              ***********************************

              Dave Ocame, N1YVV

              East Shore Park Observatory
              FN31ng
              -72.53856 longitude
              41.16797 latitude




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Ocame
              ... Spacecraft piloted by intelligent humans or non-humans, from outside our planet, will be alien to us, regardless. ... Incorrect. ... presumptuous ... I
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                > >I said nothing about UFOs driven by intelligent
                > humans. I said intelligent aliens.
                >
                > I know, which was why I asked.

                Spacecraft piloted by intelligent humans or
                non-humans, from outside our planet, will be alien to
                us, regardless.

                > This common objection from peer review for journals
                > is in no means a prerequisite for a science

                Incorrect.

                > You'll find that your above is nothing but a
                presumptuous
                > scientistic opinion.

                I have done so and do not find this to be the case.
                You are arguing from emotion. In fact, there is no
                such word as "scientistic". Its a made up word usually
                used by those ignorant in the ways of science.

                >The sharing of claims and
                > evidence can be done by any means, usually
                > independently in ufology and related studies, but
                > the problem is that there are a lack of claims and
                > replication because the field is very open.

                True. But, that very lack is what makes it
                non-science.

                > cryptozoology, parapsychology, etc.)

                Do I have to say also that these are not sciences? OK,
                I will. They are not.

                > Whether or not it's a science has nothing to do with
                > whether it /is/ scrutinised by other scientists, but
                > whether it /can/ be. First of all the subject must
                > catch some of their attention.

                Again, true. Again, that is why it is not science.
                Thanks for amplifying my popint.

                >The professionals,
                > and their belonging journals, are usually interested
                > in phenomena which can be readily exploited for
                > monetary, social, tactical, medical, or even
                > �sthetic gain.

                Hmmmm...I've published twice in the last 2 years, I
                have yet to receive a dime for having done so. The
                journals in which I published are free to the public
                and do not accept advertisements. They have also not
                made any money. Your point is invalidated, and
                teetering on conspiracy theory.

                BTW, just because you think there is a conspiracy,
                doesn't make it so.


                > I thought they were fought over land and other
                > property, like slaves, food, livestock, and
                > integrity. What were you doing in a pew, if I may
                > ask?

                true. They were also fought over religion. Crusades
                anyone?

                > >Science is not a belief system, it is a proof
                > system. Period.
                >
                > Wrong.

                No. Right.

                >There is no such thing as scientific proof,
                > or disproof, because it relies on empiricism and
                > logical positivism. Rather, science can only found,
                > whereas only philosophy can prove.

                Science, by its very definition cannot rely on
                empiricism alone (nor logical positivism...whatever
                you think that means).

                Alright, I can see that you only want to argue. So
                this will be my last. You insist on arguing from
                nonsense (and non-science). So have it your way. UFOs
                exist because you say they do. James McDonald was
                murdered by criticism, and Phil Klass and I are both
                idiots.

                Happy now?

                I'm done with this list. I came here hoping to find
                something of value. I have not.
                Bye!

                Dave Ocame



                =====
                ***********************************
                ***********************************

                Dave Ocame, N1YVV

                East Shore Park Observatory
                FN31ng
                -72.53856 longitude
                41.16797 latitude
              • Roger Anderton
                ... Not so. The science community at present mostly ignores the Unified Field Theory of Boscovich; because of prejudices. Galileo found that he could present
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  >........That how science
                  > proceeds and how it progresses.


                  Not so. The science community at present mostly ignores the Unified Field
                  Theory of Boscovich; because of prejudices. Galileo found that he could
                  present his evidence, but his supposed peers decided to ignore it. Many in
                  the science community have prejudices just as they did in Galileo's day.

                  There was a time when scientists did not believe in the existence of stones
                  falling from outer space. When two reputable witnesses -- Harvard professors
                  reported seeing meteorites. Thomas Jefferson, one of the great minds of the
                  age of Enlightenment in 1807 answered: "I could more easily believe that two
                  Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall down from heaven."

                  Some people are so prejudiced that the only cure is for their brains to fall
                  out.


                  Roger




                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "David Ocame" <docame@...>
                  To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH


                  >
                  > Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in
                  > how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I
                  > can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
                  > the author of this email blames Phil Klass for it. The
                  > rest is mostly ramblings and convolutions that make no
                  > sense whether you read it forwards or in reverse!
                  >
                  > And just how is Phil Klass to blame for McDonald's
                  > death? Was he even there at the time? Or, are you
                  > saying that Phil's criticism pushed McDonald to take
                  > his own life. Oh well! Too bad if McDonald couldn't
                  > take it.
                  >
                  > There seems to be a lack of understanding in how
                  > science works. Here. let me show you.
                  > You make a statement, or a claim. You back it up with
                  > whatever evidence you have. Then you publish it. At
                  > that point, your statement or claim is subject to
                  > intense scrutiny and criticism. That how science
                  > proceeds and how it progresses. That's how scientist
                  > separate the good science from the bad.
                  >
                  > So far, all that's been seen from the UFO community is
                  > bad science...and writing. If you can call it science,
                  > or writing. You want people to start listening? Start
                  > doing good science and CLEAR writing. That is the only
                  > way you will ever have credibility and acceptance.
                  >
                  > Stop bellyaching, and get to work.
                  >
                  > Dave Ocame
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Alfred Lehmberg <alienview@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy
                  > Connors' Sixth
                  > Compilation of Ufological Aural History
                  > by Alfred Lehmberg
                  > www.AlienView.net
                  >
                  >
                  > Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to
                  > produce the quality
                  > ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if
                  > worryingly race-running pace.
                  > Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the
                  > truly monumental
                  > ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus
                  > some cogent but
                  > alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial
                  > Hypothesis...), she puts in
                  > _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological
                  > history series a high
                  > ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding
                  > contribution to it! She
                  > illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken
                  > sidebar, every reason
                  > one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous
                  > activities of Philip J.
                  > Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP
                  > storm-trooper, and
                  > specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics?
                  > In my opinion,
                  > decidedly, no.
                  >
                  >
                  > Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and
                  > forgetting that he is at the
                  > tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our
                  > hijacked mainstream
                  > communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially
                  > instrumental to, and so
                  > holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_
                  > responsibility... for the tragic
                  > suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this
                  > review's hinge pin,
                  > nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.
                  >
                  >
                  > I think it can be argued, reader, that there is
                  > metaphoric blood on Mr.
                  > Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others,
                  > Klass' obtuse
                  > blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless,
                  > absolutely fraudulent,
                  > and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence,
                  > character,
                  > intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well
                  > known and require no
                  > citation.
                  >
                  >
                  > James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a
                  > conjectured "Mothman
                  > Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism
                  > is a rational person
                  > who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and,
                  > in a passionate
                  > investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up
                  > paying an awful 'price'
                  > for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's
                  > demanded by the
                  > 'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous
                  > non-elected... "them," to put
                  > a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are...
                  > please. Please.
                  >
                  >
                  > This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader.
                  > McDonald lost a
                  > shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife
                  > and six kids), and then
                  > finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely
                  > desert, hounded by the
                  > capering trolls and ardent apologists of a
                  > disingenuous and corrupted
                  > mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber
                  > bullet into his brain.
                  >
                  >
                  > ...
                  >
                  >
                  > To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by
                  > ALL the quality
                  > ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless
                  > pressed, by the
                  > opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the
                  > latter, Dr. McDonald
                  > actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and
                  > researchers only pretend
                  > to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and
                  > courageous surveyors
                  > of our inevitable and fast approaching future ...
                  > incisive scouts and
                  > intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience,
                  > knowledge, wisdom, and
                  > enlightenment!
                  >
                  >
                  > A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr.
                  > McDonald provides the
                  > listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience
                  > where he lays out, in a
                  > cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the
                  > case for UFOs and the
                  > extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject
                  > failure of Science,
                  > Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address
                  > UFOs in a _remotely_
                  > intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent,
                  > biased, and sullenly
                  > canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_...
                  > and referenced today...
                  > inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful
                  > magnitude of the
                  > terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly
                  > against our intrepid
                  > Doctor...
                  >
                  >
                  > Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here,
                  > James Edward McDonald
                  > held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State
                  > University in the
                  > early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an
                  > assistant professor in
                  > meteorology. Additionally, he was a research
                  > physicist in the University of
                  > Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the
                  > University of Arizona
                  > faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a
                  > _full_ professor in the
                  > real-world department of meteorology. Full
                  > professorships in moneyed
                  > academic departments from world-class Universities are
                  > not handed out like
                  > happy meals.
                  >
                  >
                  > McDonald was also a senior physicist in the
                  > University's Institute of
                  > Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director
                  > and scientific
                  > director... where he was a preferred advisor to
                  > numerous federal agencies,
                  > including the National Science Foundation, the Office
                  > of Naval Research, the
                  > National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental
                  > Science Service
                  > Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign
                  > government, the price tag
                  > would have been in the high nine figures. This
                  > individual was a world-class
                  > act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a
                  > hard-nosed
                  > researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd
                  > also, along with his wife,
                  > seen a UFO!
                  >
                  >
                  > It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's
                  > worst nightmare. He was a
                  > brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic,
                  > color' with age,
                  > experience, and reputation. He could say, and very
                  > well, exactly what he
                  > meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good
                  > reader... he wore an
                  > academic 'badge'!
                  >
                  >
                  > It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed.
                  > ...And he was. Verily.
                  > Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).
                  >
                  >
                  > Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and
                  > compelling speaker
                  > with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal
                  > ufologist Richard Hall,
                  > and, as the listener will discover, constructively
                  > humorous. He was even
                  > able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition
                  > (likely his most
                  > unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his
                  > back-shooting, corner-sniping
                  > and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even
                  > today, the totality of
                  > their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with
                  > reasonable examples,
                  > faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or
                  > pertinent conjectures based
                  > on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr.
                  > McDonald was legend to be
                  > able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are
                  > enabled to hear that for
                  > themselves...
                  >
                  >
                  > McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs,
                  > unfortunately, but did
                  > produce several short pieces on his series of lectures
                  > and presentations
                  > made to learned colleagues and other professional
                  > persons. These talks
                  > included explications on:
                  >
                  >
                  > 1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22
                  > Years of Inadequate UFO
                  > Investigations
                  >
                  >
                  > 2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ...
                  > thoughts on perceiving a
                  > cover-up.
                  >
                  >
                  > 3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar
                  > Returns
                  >
                  >
                  > 4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's
                  > Critique on Condon's
                  > validity and procedure.
                  >
                  >
                  > 5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee
                  > on Science.
                  > Debunking the debunkers.
                  >
                  >
                  > This is a hint of what the listener is treated to...
                  > sober and intelligent
                  > reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or
                  > histrionics... just
                  > straight science as pure as the garden variety
                  > skeptibunky (Klass et al)
                  > would _purport_ to want to have it!
                  >
                  >
                  > Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even
                  > _yesterday_ against the
                  > state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of
                  > today, and be not too
                  > surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
                  > day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless
                  > faux-skepticisms still trotted
                  > out currently with insentient and numbing regularity
                  > were asked and
                  > answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and
                  > invalidated decades ago
                  > by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides
                  > you with a primary
                  > reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs
                  > _are_ real!
                  >
                  >
                  > ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's
                  > current compilation!
                  >
                  >
                  > ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media
                  > journalists who had
                  > respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and
                  > who believed that an
                  > _informed_ public was the one best served. Not
                  > resorting to cheap-shots,
                  > easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the
                  > subject of UFOs
                  > squarely in the street during an incisive thirty
                  > minute radio program... as
                  > valid today as it was in 1950!
                  >
                  >
                  > ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead
                  > in 1970, a British
                  > Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief
                  > in the ETH (a belief
                  > maintained until the end of his life) on August 9,
                  > 1954.
                  >
                  >
                  > ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public
                  > affairs program from 1960
                  > where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton
                  > University moderates an
                  > _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The
                  > subject, "Are Flying
                  > Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by
                  > guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
                  > Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr.
                  > Frank Saltzburg and
                  > researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey,
                  > obfuscating, evasive, and
                  > _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why.
                  > Reflect on why he would be
                  > the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists
                  > _really_ do as they
                  > want?
                  >
                  >
                  > That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth
                  > on UFOs and
                  > extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates
                  > on them! Dr. Ivan T.
                  > Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner
                  > cogitates in their
                  > regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly
                  > expounds! Wow!
                  >
                  >
                  > That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change,
                  > total time, awaits the
                  > open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener.
                  > ...And _be_
                  > curious... good reader!
                  >
                  >
                  > Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to
                  > challenge the unknown; by
                  > becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our
                  > society; you help to re-take
                  > our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate
                  > the specious
                  > pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his
                  > capering coterie of cultish
                  > apologists, men who have always resorted to character
                  > assassination,
                  > baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when
                  > they can't debate their
                  > worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and
                  > are keen, only, upon
                  > grinding their own duplicitous axes...
                  >
                  >
                  > ...And who can blame them... standing tall only
                  > insures their demise... real
                  > debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only
                  > provides for the
                  > righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I
                  > don't _care_ what
                  > their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not
                  > shared with _me_, and
                  > so are then unacceptable, on spec!
                  >
                  >
                  > That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists
                  > stand in the way of human
                  > progression with their senseless and obstinate
                  > obliviousness, that they
                  > ignore recorded history, or that they connive to
                  > despoil, degrade, and
                  > destroy their betters... are reasons enough to
                  > discredit them -- provide for
                  > _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy,
                  > such as it is! Yea
                  > and Verily!
                  >
                  >
                  > Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample
                  > historical evidence for the
                  > validity of all the preceding contentions in her
                  > latest compilation, "James
                  > E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The
                  > listener should not be
                  > disappointed...
                  >
                  >
                  > More info and purchase information can be found
                  > contacting Wendy Connors at:
                  > wendy@... ... Read on!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > alienview@...
                  >
                  > www.AlienView.net
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list
                  > dedicated to:
                  > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the
                  > Paranormal.
                  >
                  > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                  > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                  >
                  >
                  > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted
                  > to this list require
                  > further investigation.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > =====
                  > ***********************************
                  > ***********************************
                  >
                  > Dave Ocame, N1YVV
                  >
                  > East Shore Park Observatory
                  > FN31ng
                  > -72.53856 longitude
                  > 41.16797 latitude
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                  > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                  >
                  > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                  > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                  > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                  >
                  > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                  require
                  > further investigation.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Roger Anderton
                  ... working with epilepsy patients. Sounds like when you are talking about ufology, it might just be a subject outside your expertise. ... Not so - in the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > I am a scientist working in a real lab. In fact, I am in Neurochemistry,
                    working with epilepsy patients.


                    Sounds like when you are talking about ufology, it might just be a subject
                    outside your expertise.

                    >Skeptics simply seek proof through direct evidence.

                    Not so - in the philosophy movement of Skepticism, it has just become a
                    mind-set of not believing evidence if it contradicts one's beliefs. The
                    paragon of skeptics in the 18th C David Hume stated the credo as: "No
                    testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of
                    such a kind that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which
                    it endeavours to establish." I suppose there is a spectrum range of
                    skeptics; some skeptics being not as skeptical as other skeptics. But a
                    "true" diehard skeptic is not using his brain and might as well let it fall
                    out.

                    Roger

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "David Ocame" <docame@...>
                    To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:00 AM
                    Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH


                    > Oh, hey Stu. How's it going? Struck a nerve did I?
                    >
                    > No, I think I have Alfred dead on.
                    >
                    > He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English
                    > language,
                    >
                    > Lucid? Did you and I read the same passage?
                    > Lucid: 1. easily understood 2. Mentally sound: sane. Webster's II
                    University Edition.
                    > Sorry, but nothing Alfred wrote fits this definition.
                    >
                    > I think the use of the word "metaphorical" probably lets him off
                    > the hook in terms of accusing Klass of responsibility for
                    > MacDonald's death. Anyone who knows MacDonald's life story will
                    > know the reasons why he took his own life.
                    >
                    > However, Aflred clearly blames Phil Klass for it. This is not metaphorism,
                    this is assignment of blame. It lets him off no hooks.
                    >
                    > Your diatribe about "science" is just that.
                    >
                    > D-i-a-t-r-i-b-e...diatribe: Bitterly abusive criticism or denunciation.
                    also from Webster's
                    >
                    > I was certainly critical, this was intentional. But bitter?....no. In
                    fact, I was laughing as I wrote it. I knew people would either not bother to
                    listen to me, or someone would argue. Guess where you fit in, Stu?
                    >
                    > Alfred knows all about science
                    >
                    > No, now we've already covered this, Stu. Alfred has demonstrated his
                    inability to understand science.
                    >
                    > and how it has admirably served the UFO community
                    > -not.
                    >
                    > Science certainly has served all communities. If only you would listen and
                    learn what science is saying. It is a sad fact, that all human society on
                    this planet undervalues it's scientists (witness my paycheck). Our dear U.S.
                    President Bush is a fine example of that. He still completely ignores
                    warnings that we are causing global warming. Our negative effect on our
                    planet is a sad truth. Yet, you cannot live without us! You would all still
                    be living to the ripe old age of 20, but for scientists. The same is true
                    for the UFO community, if only you would listen.
                    >
                    > No, we have not given in and said, "ok, you are right. UFOs exist." What
                    we have done is shown how you have not one shred of evidence that biological
                    extraterrestrials are flying spaceships through our atmosphere. Instead of
                    taking that as the challenge it is, you mistook it as insult.
                    >
                    > Pray tell, what are you doing as a scientist to advance the
                    > cause of ufology?
                    >
                    > I am a scientist working in a real lab. In fact, I am in Neurochemistry,
                    working with epilepsy patients. I get paid to do science because I am good
                    at it. I've been doing it for the past 30 years. I do nothing to advance
                    ufology. As I said, I am a scientist. Ufology is NOT a science. When you
                    want it to be a science, let me know and I will help.
                    >
                    > Or are you a complete sceptic who wishes to
                    > prove the whole thing is a waste of time?
                    >
                    > As a matter of fact, being a skeptic is not the evil thing you make it out
                    to be. Sure, skeptics doubt and raise questions. This is a bad thing?
                    Skeptics simply seek proof through direct evidence. Truth is, I can't say
                    UFOs (as driven by intelligent aliens) exist or don't exist. There's no
                    evidence for or against them. But, when I come home from work, I spend most
                    of my free time searching for this evidence. I've invested $1000s of my own
                    money developing equipment to aid me in this search. At least I do that
                    much. At least I do that much.
                    >
                    > Thanks, Dave Ocame
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ***********************************
                    > ***********************************
                    >
                    > Dave Ocame, N1YVV
                    >
                    > East Shore Park Observatory
                    > FN31ng
                    > -72.53856 longitude
                    > 41.16797 latitude
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                    > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                    >
                    > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                    > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                    > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                    > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                    >
                    > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                    require
                    > further investigation.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Roger Anderton
                    ... name of religion. While science provides the weapons of mass destruction. ... From: David Ocame To: Autymn D. C.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >>ok, yes I do. The bloodiest wars in human history have been fought in the
                      name of religion.

                      While science provides the weapons of mass destruction.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "David Ocame" <docame@...>
                      To: "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@...>; "ufos" <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:50 AM
                      Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH


                      > I said nothing about UFOs driven by intelligent humans. I said
                      intelligent aliens.
                      >
                      > UFOlogy is not a science. Scientists have to take the good with the bad.
                      Their theories must stand up to intense scrutiny by being published in peer
                      reviewed journals. Peer reviewed means that before they even get published,
                      the papers are sent out to be reviewed by other scientists. If those
                      scientists find the paper does not prove its claim by a preponderance of
                      evidence, the paper does not get published. It's this kind of review process
                      that keeps bad science from getting getting out.
                      >
                      > UFOlogy does not have this. Yes, Ufologists do publish papers and write
                      books. But they are certainly not scrutinized by other scientists first.
                      UFOLogy also seems to entail a lot of belief. People believe in UFOs. Belief
                      is not good enough for scientists. Belief implies an overwhelming
                      persistence of ideas without direct evidence.
                      >
                      > This is fine for churches. Let me be clear here. I have nothing against
                      churches and religion (ok, yes I do. The bloodiest wars in human history
                      have been fought in the name of religion. Anyone wanting to argue that point
                      should look at what we are doing in Iraq and Afganistan today. But, that has
                      nothing to do with my point). Religion and science have nothing to do with
                      each other. I, myself, have been known to sit inside a pew or two. But, I am
                      clear that I keep the two separate.
                      >
                      > Science is not a belief system, it is a proof system. Period.
                      >
                      > I do not believe in aliens (ETs). I can't. I've never met one, never seen
                      its dead body nor its crashed spaceship. But, I am clear that there is
                      overwhelming mathematical probability for their existence due to the
                      tremendous number of stars and galaxies in this universe. It would be absurd
                      to think there was no other life and intelligent life in the universe. I
                      seek to find the evidence that proves this view correct. When I find it,
                      then I will believe it.
                      >
                      > Lastly, as far as the Corpus Callosum is concerned. I don't think I
                      understand your question. Sure there's a circuit breaker..it's called a
                      scalpel. Were you looking for something different?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Dave
                      >
                      > "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@...> wrote:
                      > its
                      >
                      > So what about UFOs driven by intelligent humans?
                      >
                      > Ufology is a science. There's also pseudoufology.
                      >
                      > So is there some kind of circuit breaker for the corpus callosum?
                      >
                      > -Aut
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ***********************************
                      > ***********************************
                      >
                      > Dave Ocame, N1YVV
                      >
                      > East Shore Park Observatory
                      > FN31ng
                      > -72.53856 longitude
                      > 41.16797 latitude
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                      > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                      >
                      > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                      > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                      > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                      > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                      >
                      > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                      require
                      > further investigation.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Stuart Miller
                      Roger Nice bunch of replies. Unfortunately, it would appear that the supercillious little twerp has fled as the temperature has warmed up a bit. But just in
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Roger

                        Nice bunch of replies. Unfortunately, it would appear that the
                        supercillious little twerp has fled as the temperature has
                        warmed up a bit. But just in case he's still lurking.


                        --- David Ocame <docame@...> wrote:

                        ---------------------------------
                        >Oh, hey Stu. How's it going? Struck a nerve did I?

                        Yep. My funny bone. Thanks for the laugh and the inspiration for
                        a new column for UFO Review. See the next issue.

                        >No, I think I have Alfred dead on.

                        No you don't. In fact you don't have a clue.

                        >>He is in fact a lucid and very fluent user of the English
                        >>language,

                        >Lucid? Did you and I read the same passage?
                        >Lucid: 1. easily understood 2. Mentally sound: sane. Webster's
                        >II University Edition.
                        >Sorry, but nothing Alfred wrote fits this definition.

                        Well you can't have it both ways. Then if he's not lucid, he has
                        much in common with you.

                        <snip>

                        >>Your diatribe about "science" is just that.

                        >D-i-a-t-r-i-b-e...diatribe: Bitterly abusive criticism or
                        >denunciation. also from Webster's

                        >I was certainly critical, this was intentional. But
                        >bitter?....no. In fact, I was laughing as I wrote it. I knew
                        >people would either not bother to listen to me, or someone
                        >would argue. Guess where you fit in, Stu?

                        Fascinating. If a nerve was touched son, it was one of yours.
                        What a hostile response to a fairly straightforward reply that
                        didn't agree with yours. You're behaviour is completely in
                        keeping with the atypical paranoid sceptic who has clearly been
                        bruised many times in "fights" and thinks everyone is out to get
                        him. You have only one means of reply - attack. Result? You come
                        over as a bitter, twisted individual. Out of interest, how are
                        your personal relationships? Do you have any?

                        I have no desire to promote science within ufology, none at all.
                        I don't believe it can serve the ufological community one little
                        bit. It never has and it never really will. It's useless, and
                        filled with useless individuals like yourself. You claim a
                        scientific background but proudly state you've made no
                        scientific contribution to Ufology. I'm not sure where you're
                        coming from and I suspect you haven't got much of a clue either.

                        >Science certainly has served all communities. If only you would
                        >listen and learn what science is saying.

                        Oh pray, do tell. What is it saying?

                        >It is a sad fact, that all human society on this planet
                        >undervalues it's scientists (witness my paycheck).

                        Unlikely. Market forces etc.

                        >Our dear U.S. President Bush is a fine example of that. He
                        >still completely ignores warnings that we are causing global
                        >warming. Our negative effect on our planet is a sad truth. Yet,
                        >you cannot live without us! You would all still be living to
                        >the ripe old age of 20, but for scientists. The same is true
                        >for the UFO community, if only you would listen.

                        I don't follow how no one in the ufological community would not
                        live past the age of 20 without the help of science? This isn't
                        errrrr lucid. Perhaps you ought to contact Alfred for lessons on
                        clarity of speech.


                        >No, we have not given in and said, "ok, you are right. UFOs
                        >exist." What we have done is shown how you have not one shred
                        >of evidence that biological extraterrestrials are flying
                        >spaceships through our atmosphere. Instead of taking that as
                        >the challenge it is, you mistook it as insult.

                        Ooooh, listen to her!! I took nothing as an insult. Well, not
                        true - your reply was insulting but not your original post. And
                        I'm not sure how you have gathered exactly what my views on
                        slimy aliens are. You're battle weary David. You've obviously
                        been through this so many times before that you're working to a
                        script. I have no idea whether biological non terrestrial beings
                        fly UFOs. I do know there is abundant, ample, overwhelming,
                        utterly convincing and undeniable proof that strange, anomalous
                        craft have been in our skies and are here regularly. I've got
                        the photos, the witness statements, and the trace evidence to
                        prove all that.


                        >>Or are you a complete sceptic who wishes to
                        >>prove the whole thing is a waste of time?

                        >As a matter of fact, being a skeptic is not the evil thing you
                        >make it out to be.

                        Oh for god's sake, you sad sod. Where have I said being a
                        sceptic is an evil thing? For a so called scientist who should
                        be used to methodolgy and proof, you appear to be unable to read
                        and digest text properly. If I ever became epileptic, then keep
                        any godam medication you may have worked on away from me please.
                        You're not very good at this are you?

                        >Sure, skeptics doubt and raise questions. This is a bad thing?

                        Generally no. In your case I'm considering making an exception.

                        >Skeptics simply seek proof through direct evidence. Truth is, I
                        >can't say UFOs (as driven by intelligent aliens) exist or don't
                        >exist. There's no evidence for or against them. But, when I
                        >come home from work, I spend most of my free time searching for
                        >this evidence. I've invested $1000s of my own money developing
                        >equipment to aid me in this search. At least I do that much. At
                        >least I do that much.

                        And so good, it has to be said twice. This equipment you've been
                        developing that helps search for evidence of intelligent
                        extraterrestrial reality - how does it work? Is it like a little
                        detector that emits a beep when one is in the presence of some
                        thing not of this world? Is it one of those microwave jobbies
                        that can tell you if you've got an alien inplant in your brain?
                        Does it have lots of wires and batteries and steam coming out of
                        various bits? Is it available by mail order and do you take
                        credit cards? You have a captive market here and I wanna buy!!

                        God save us.

                        stuart miller
                      • Ken Klingbeil
                        Hi Roger, Thank you, Thank you, We might suggest next time use , Lack of understanding in stead of prejudice., But you are right on Love Life Ken ... From:
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 1, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Roger,
                          Thank you, Thank you, We might suggest next time use , Lack of
                          understanding in stead of prejudice., But you are right on
                          Love Life
                          Ken



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                          To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:24 AM
                          Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH


                          > >........That how science
                          > > proceeds and how it progresses.
                          >
                          >
                          > Not so. The science community at present mostly ignores the Unified Field
                          > Theory of Boscovich; because of prejudices. Galileo found that he could
                          > present his evidence, but his supposed peers decided to ignore it. Many
                          in
                          > the science community have prejudices just as they did in Galileo's day.
                          >
                          > There was a time when scientists did not believe in the existence of
                          stones
                          > falling from outer space. When two reputable witnesses -- Harvard
                          professors
                          > reported seeing meteorites. Thomas Jefferson, one of the great minds of
                          the
                          > age of Enlightenment in 1807 answered: "I could more easily believe that
                          two
                          > Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall down from heaven."
                          >
                          > Some people are so prejudiced that the only cure is for their brains to
                          fall
                          > out.
                          >
                          >
                          > Roger
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "David Ocame" <docame@...>
                          > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:18 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in
                          > > how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I
                          > > can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
                          > > the author of this email blames Phil Klass for it. The
                          > > rest is mostly ramblings and convolutions that make no
                          > > sense whether you read it forwards or in reverse!
                          > >
                          > > And just how is Phil Klass to blame for McDonald's
                          > > death? Was he even there at the time? Or, are you
                          > > saying that Phil's criticism pushed McDonald to take
                          > > his own life. Oh well! Too bad if McDonald couldn't
                          > > take it.
                          > >
                          > > There seems to be a lack of understanding in how
                          > > science works. Here. let me show you.
                          > > You make a statement, or a claim. You back it up with
                          > > whatever evidence you have. Then you publish it. At
                          > > that point, your statement or claim is subject to
                          > > intense scrutiny and criticism. That how science
                          > > proceeds and how it progresses. That's how scientist
                          > > separate the good science from the bad.
                          > >
                          > > So far, all that's been seen from the UFO community is
                          > > bad science...and writing. If you can call it science,
                          > > or writing. You want people to start listening? Start
                          > > doing good science and CLEAR writing. That is the only
                          > > way you will ever have credibility and acceptance.
                          > >
                          > > Stop bellyaching, and get to work.
                          > >
                          > > Dave Ocame
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- Alfred Lehmberg <alienview@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy
                          > > Connors' Sixth
                          > > Compilation of Ufological Aural History
                          > > by Alfred Lehmberg
                          > > www.AlienView.net
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to
                          > > produce the quality
                          > > ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if
                          > > worryingly race-running pace.
                          > > Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the
                          > > truly monumental
                          > > ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus
                          > > some cogent but
                          > > alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial
                          > > Hypothesis...), she puts in
                          > > _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological
                          > > history series a high
                          > > ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding
                          > > contribution to it! She
                          > > illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken
                          > > sidebar, every reason
                          > > one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous
                          > > activities of Philip J.
                          > > Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP
                          > > storm-trooper, and
                          > > specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics?
                          > > In my opinion,
                          > > decidedly, no.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and
                          > > forgetting that he is at the
                          > > tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our
                          > > hijacked mainstream
                          > > communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially
                          > > instrumental to, and so
                          > > holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_
                          > > responsibility... for the tragic
                          > > suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this
                          > > review's hinge pin,
                          > > nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I think it can be argued, reader, that there is
                          > > metaphoric blood on Mr.
                          > > Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others,
                          > > Klass' obtuse
                          > > blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless,
                          > > absolutely fraudulent,
                          > > and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence,
                          > > character,
                          > > intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well
                          > > known and require no
                          > > citation.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a
                          > > conjectured "Mothman
                          > > Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism
                          > > is a rational person
                          > > who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and,
                          > > in a passionate
                          > > investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up
                          > > paying an awful 'price'
                          > > for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's
                          > > demanded by the
                          > > 'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous
                          > > non-elected... "them," to put
                          > > a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are...
                          > > please. Please.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader.
                          > > McDonald lost a
                          > > shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife
                          > > and six kids), and then
                          > > finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely
                          > > desert, hounded by the
                          > > capering trolls and ardent apologists of a
                          > > disingenuous and corrupted
                          > > mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber
                          > > bullet into his brain.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by
                          > > ALL the quality
                          > > ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless
                          > > pressed, by the
                          > > opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the
                          > > latter, Dr. McDonald
                          > > actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and
                          > > researchers only pretend
                          > > to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and
                          > > courageous surveyors
                          > > of our inevitable and fast approaching future ...
                          > > incisive scouts and
                          > > intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience,
                          > > knowledge, wisdom, and
                          > > enlightenment!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr.
                          > > McDonald provides the
                          > > listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience
                          > > where he lays out, in a
                          > > cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the
                          > > case for UFOs and the
                          > > extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject
                          > > failure of Science,
                          > > Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address
                          > > UFOs in a _remotely_
                          > > intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent,
                          > > biased, and sullenly
                          > > canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_...
                          > > and referenced today...
                          > > inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful
                          > > magnitude of the
                          > > terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly
                          > > against our intrepid
                          > > Doctor...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here,
                          > > James Edward McDonald
                          > > held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State
                          > > University in the
                          > > early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an
                          > > assistant professor in
                          > > meteorology. Additionally, he was a research
                          > > physicist in the University of
                          > > Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the
                          > > University of Arizona
                          > > faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a
                          > > _full_ professor in the
                          > > real-world department of meteorology. Full
                          > > professorships in moneyed
                          > > academic departments from world-class Universities are
                          > > not handed out like
                          > > happy meals.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > McDonald was also a senior physicist in the
                          > > University's Institute of
                          > > Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director
                          > > and scientific
                          > > director... where he was a preferred advisor to
                          > > numerous federal agencies,
                          > > including the National Science Foundation, the Office
                          > > of Naval Research, the
                          > > National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental
                          > > Science Service
                          > > Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign
                          > > government, the price tag
                          > > would have been in the high nine figures. This
                          > > individual was a world-class
                          > > act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a
                          > > hard-nosed
                          > > researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd
                          > > also, along with his wife,
                          > > seen a UFO!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's
                          > > worst nightmare. He was a
                          > > brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic,
                          > > color' with age,
                          > > experience, and reputation. He could say, and very
                          > > well, exactly what he
                          > > meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good
                          > > reader... he wore an
                          > > academic 'badge'!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed.
                          > > ...And he was. Verily.
                          > > Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and
                          > > compelling speaker
                          > > with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal
                          > > ufologist Richard Hall,
                          > > and, as the listener will discover, constructively
                          > > humorous. He was even
                          > > able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition
                          > > (likely his most
                          > > unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his
                          > > back-shooting, corner-sniping
                          > > and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even
                          > > today, the totality of
                          > > their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with
                          > > reasonable examples,
                          > > faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or
                          > > pertinent conjectures based
                          > > on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr.
                          > > McDonald was legend to be
                          > > able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are
                          > > enabled to hear that for
                          > > themselves...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs,
                          > > unfortunately, but did
                          > > produce several short pieces on his series of lectures
                          > > and presentations
                          > > made to learned colleagues and other professional
                          > > persons. These talks
                          > > included explications on:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22
                          > > Years of Inadequate UFO
                          > > Investigations
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ...
                          > > thoughts on perceiving a
                          > > cover-up.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar
                          > > Returns
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's
                          > > Critique on Condon's
                          > > validity and procedure.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee
                          > > on Science.
                          > > Debunking the debunkers.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > This is a hint of what the listener is treated to...
                          > > sober and intelligent
                          > > reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or
                          > > histrionics... just
                          > > straight science as pure as the garden variety
                          > > skeptibunky (Klass et al)
                          > > would _purport_ to want to have it!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even
                          > > _yesterday_ against the
                          > > state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of
                          > > today, and be not too
                          > > surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
                          > > day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless
                          > > faux-skepticisms still trotted
                          > > out currently with insentient and numbing regularity
                          > > were asked and
                          > > answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and
                          > > invalidated decades ago
                          > > by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides
                          > > you with a primary
                          > > reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs
                          > > _are_ real!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's
                          > > current compilation!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media
                          > > journalists who had
                          > > respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and
                          > > who believed that an
                          > > _informed_ public was the one best served. Not
                          > > resorting to cheap-shots,
                          > > easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the
                          > > subject of UFOs
                          > > squarely in the street during an incisive thirty
                          > > minute radio program... as
                          > > valid today as it was in 1950!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead
                          > > in 1970, a British
                          > > Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief
                          > > in the ETH (a belief
                          > > maintained until the end of his life) on August 9,
                          > > 1954.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public
                          > > affairs program from 1960
                          > > where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton
                          > > University moderates an
                          > > _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The
                          > > subject, "Are Flying
                          > > Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by
                          > > guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
                          > > Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr.
                          > > Frank Saltzburg and
                          > > researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey,
                          > > obfuscating, evasive, and
                          > > _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why.
                          > > Reflect on why he would be
                          > > the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists
                          > > _really_ do as they
                          > > want?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth
                          > > on UFOs and
                          > > extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates
                          > > on them! Dr. Ivan T.
                          > > Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner
                          > > cogitates in their
                          > > regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly
                          > > expounds! Wow!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change,
                          > > total time, awaits the
                          > > open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener.
                          > > ...And _be_
                          > > curious... good reader!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to
                          > > challenge the unknown; by
                          > > becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our
                          > > society; you help to re-take
                          > > our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate
                          > > the specious
                          > > pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his
                          > > capering coterie of cultish
                          > > apologists, men who have always resorted to character
                          > > assassination,
                          > > baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when
                          > > they can't debate their
                          > > worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and
                          > > are keen, only, upon
                          > > grinding their own duplicitous axes...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ...And who can blame them... standing tall only
                          > > insures their demise... real
                          > > debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only
                          > > provides for the
                          > > righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I
                          > > don't _care_ what
                          > > their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not
                          > > shared with _me_, and
                          > > so are then unacceptable, on spec!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists
                          > > stand in the way of human
                          > > progression with their senseless and obstinate
                          > > obliviousness, that they
                          > > ignore recorded history, or that they connive to
                          > > despoil, degrade, and
                          > > destroy their betters... are reasons enough to
                          > > discredit them -- provide for
                          > > _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy,
                          > > such as it is! Yea
                          > > and Verily!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample
                          > > historical evidence for the
                          > > validity of all the preceding contentions in her
                          > > latest compilation, "James
                          > > E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The
                          > > listener should not be
                          > > disappointed...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > More info and purchase information can be found
                          > > contacting Wendy Connors at:
                          > > wendy@... ... Read on!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > alienview@...
                          > >
                          > > www.AlienView.net
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list
                          > > dedicated to:
                          > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the
                          > > Paranormal.
                          > >
                          > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                          > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted
                          > > to this list require
                          > > further investigation.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/
                          > >
                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                          > > Terms of Service.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > =====
                          > > ***********************************
                          > > ***********************************
                          > >
                          > > Dave Ocame, N1YVV
                          > >
                          > > East Shore Park Observatory
                          > > FN31ng
                          > > -72.53856 longitude
                          > > 41.16797 latitude
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                          > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                          > >
                          > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > >
                          > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                          > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                          > >
                          > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                          > require
                          > > further investigation.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                          > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                          >
                          > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                          > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                          > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                          >
                          > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                          require
                          > further investigation.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Roger Anderton
                          Dear Ken I am trying to find people that are interested in this sort of thing:-- Galileo found that his peers were doing things wrong, but he found that he was
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 2, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Ken

                            I am trying to find people that are interested in this sort of thing:--
                            Galileo found that his peers were doing things wrong, but he found that he
                            was blocked. The science revolution from Galileo has gone wrong, and those
                            in the science community have started doing things wrong just as they were
                            doing in Galileo's day.

                            In Galileo's day there were Catholic priests looking into the science
                            issues
                            that he was raising: the main group was the Society of Jesus (called
                            Jesuits)- they accepted the Copernican theory based upon their own
                            astronomical observations. But when Galileo went before the Inquistion,
                            they
                            did not come forward to defend him. Anyway the Jesuits continued their
                            scientific investigations, and then it came to the question of Newton's
                            theory. Upon the advice of the Jesuit Father Boscovich - Newton's theory
                            was
                            accepted. But Boscovich had a more advanced theory than Newton's.
                            Boscovich's theory was the basis for Quantum theory and Relativity theory,
                            it is the Unified Field Theory - that is being ignored. And by Paul Hill
                            NASA scientist study of UFOs his conclusion that some are using the UFT,
                            means that the scientists are not dealing with the relevant physics theory!

                            Roger
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Ken Klingbeil" <kenkling35@...>
                            > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 3:01 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH
                            >
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Roger,
                            > > Thank you, Thank you, We might suggest next time use , Lack of
                            > > understanding in stead of prejudice., But you are right on
                            > > Love Life
                            > > Ken
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: "Roger Anderton" <R.J.Anderton@...>
                            > > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:24 AM
                            > > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > >........That how science
                            > > > > proceeds and how it progresses.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Not so. The science community at present mostly ignores the Unified
                            > Field
                            > > > Theory of Boscovich; because of prejudices. Galileo found that he
                            could
                            > > > present his evidence, but his supposed peers decided to ignore it.
                            Many
                            > > in
                            > > > the science community have prejudices just as they did in Galileo's
                            > day.
                            > > >
                            > > > There was a time when scientists did not believe in the existence of
                            > > stones
                            > > > falling from outer space. When two reputable witnesses -- Harvard
                            > > professors
                            > > > reported seeing meteorites. Thomas Jefferson, one of the great minds
                            of
                            > > the
                            > > > age of Enlightenment in 1807 answered: "I could more easily believe
                            that
                            > > two
                            > > > Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall down from
                            > heaven."
                            > > >
                            > > > Some people are so prejudiced that the only cure is for their brains
                            to
                            > > fall
                            > > > out.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Roger
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: "David Ocame" <docame@...>
                            > > > To: <ufonet@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:18 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [UFOnet] Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hmmm...somebody needs to take a bunch of classes in
                            > > > > how to write proper sentences and paragraphs. All I
                            > > > > can make out is thisDr. McDonald committed suicide and
                            > > > > the author of this email blames Phil Klass for it. The
                            > > > > rest is mostly ramblings and convolutions that make no
                            > > > > sense whether you read it forwards or in reverse!
                            > > > >
                            > > > > And just how is Phil Klass to blame for McDonald's
                            > > > > death? Was he even there at the time? Or, are you
                            > > > > saying that Phil's criticism pushed McDonald to take
                            > > > > his own life. Oh well! Too bad if McDonald couldn't
                            > > > > take it.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > There seems to be a lack of understanding in how
                            > > > > science works. Here. let me show you.
                            > > > > You make a statement, or a claim. You back it up with
                            > > > > whatever evidence you have. Then you publish it. At
                            > > > > that point, your statement or claim is subject to
                            > > > > intense scrutiny and criticism. That how science
                            > > > > proceeds and how it progresses. That's how scientist
                            > > > > separate the good science from the bad.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > So far, all that's been seen from the UFO community is
                            > > > > bad science...and writing. If you can call it science,
                            > > > > or writing. You want people to start listening? Start
                            > > > > doing good science and CLEAR writing. That is the only
                            > > > > way you will ever have credibility and acceptance.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stop bellyaching, and get to work.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dave Ocame
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- Alfred Lehmberg <alienview@...> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ---------------------------------
                            > > > > Dr. James E. McDonald & The ETH -- A Review of Wendy
                            > > > > Connors' Sixth
                            > > > > Compilation of Ufological Aural History
                            > > > > by Alfred Lehmberg
                            > > > > www.AlienView.net
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Wendy Connors _is_ a wonderland. She _continues_ to
                            > > > > produce the quality
                            > > > > ufological goods at her usual prodigious, if
                            > > > > worryingly race-running pace.
                            > > > > Additionally, if beside the point (...which is the
                            > > > > truly monumental
                            > > > > ufological contribution of Dr. James E. McDonald, plus
                            > > > > some cogent but
                            > > > > alternant thinking on the Extraterrestrial
                            > > > > Hypothesis...), she puts in
                            > > > > _this_ iteration of her foundational ufological
                            > > > > history series a high
                            > > > > ornament on the tree symbolizing her ever expanding
                            > > > > contribution to it! She
                            > > > > illustrates (by accident or design), in an unspoken
                            > > > > sidebar, every reason
                            > > > > one needs to have... for detesting the scurrilous
                            > > > > activities of Philip J.
                            > > > > Klass (et al), arch skeptibunky, uber-menchen CSICOP
                            > > > > storm-trooper, and
                            > > > > specious agenda grinder. Hyperbole and histrionics?
                            > > > > In my opinion,
                            > > > > decidedly, no.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Philip Klass, by way of quick explanation, and
                            > > > > forgetting that he is at the
                            > > > > tap-root of every less-than-constructive attitude our
                            > > > > hijacked mainstream
                            > > > > communicates with regard to UFOs... was socially
                            > > > > instrumental to, and so
                            > > > > holds, in my too humble opinion, _some_
                            > > > > responsibility... for the tragic
                            > > > > suicide (..._if_ that's what it was...!) of the this
                            > > > > review's hinge pin,
                            > > > > nascent ufologist Dr. James E. McDonald.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I think it can be argued, reader, that there is
                            > > > > metaphoric blood on Mr.
                            > > > > Klass' hands. Among portentously outrageous others,
                            > > > > Klass' obtuse
                            > > > > blindsiding, completely immaterial, totally baseless,
                            > > > > absolutely fraudulent,
                            > > > > and patently disingenuous attacks on the competence,
                            > > > > character,
                            > > > > intelligence, and integrity of Dr. McDonald are well
                            > > > > known and require no
                            > > > > citation.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > James McDonald, indeed, was an early victim of a
                            > > > > conjectured "Mothman
                            > > > > Futility Mechanism." The sufferer of this mechanism
                            > > > > is a rational person
                            > > > > who encounters an aspect of the 'highly strange', and,
                            > > > > in a passionate
                            > > > > investigation of that very real strangeness, ends up
                            > > > > paying an awful 'price'
                            > > > > for the pursuit of that enigma's challenge... as it's
                            > > > > demanded by the
                            > > > > 'enforcement arm' (Klass et al) of the jealous
                            > > > > non-elected... "them," to put
                            > > > > a point on it. ...And please ask me who "they" are...
                            > > > > please. Please.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > This story transcends mere tragedy, good reader.
                            > > > > McDonald lost a
                            > > > > shining-star career, followed by his family (A wife
                            > > > > and six kids), and then
                            > > > > finally his life... when he walked out into a lonely
                            > > > > desert, hounded by the
                            > > > > capering trolls and ardent apologists of a
                            > > > > disingenuous and corrupted
                            > > > > mainstream (Klass, et al)... and fired a 38 caliber
                            > > > > bullet into his brain.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To his credit, the memory of Dr. McDonald is lauded by
                            > > > > ALL the quality
                            > > > > ufological proponents, and studiously ignored, unless
                            > > > > pressed, by the
                            > > > > opponents of same. To the discomfiting chagrin of the
                            > > > > latter, Dr. McDonald
                            > > > > actually _was_ what most mainstream scientists and
                            > > > > researchers only pretend
                            > > > > to be: data driven explorers of the brave unknown and
                            > > > > courageous surveyors
                            > > > > of our inevitable and fast approaching future ...
                            > > > > incisive scouts and
                            > > > > intrepid pioneers on a four-fold path of experience,
                            > > > > knowledge, wisdom, and
                            > > > > enlightenment!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > A result of Wendy Connors' tireless diligence, Dr.
                            > > > > McDonald provides the
                            > > > > listener another "real deal": a _private_ audience
                            > > > > where he lays out, in a
                            > > > > cogent, practical, and compelling manner, [One]: the
                            > > > > case for UFOs and the
                            > > > > extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH)... [Two]: the abject
                            > > > > failure of Science,
                            > > > > Agency, Institution or Government (SAIG) to address
                            > > > > UFOs in a _remotely_
                            > > > > intelligent manner... and [Three]: the incompetent,
                            > > > > biased, and sullenly
                            > > > > canted 'official' investigations of UFOs _extant_...
                            > > > > and referenced today...
                            > > > > inexplicably, still! One begins to sense the awful
                            > > > > magnitude of the
                            > > > > terrible forces (SAIG!) that would be arrayed unjustly
                            > > > > against our intrepid
                            > > > > Doctor...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Just so we'll understand who we're dealing with here,
                            > > > > James Edward McDonald
                            > > > > held a respected Doctorate in physics from Iowa State
                            > > > > University in the
                            > > > > early fifties. He had worked there, briefly, as an
                            > > > > assistant professor in
                            > > > > meteorology. Additionally, he was a research
                            > > > > physicist in the University of
                            > > > > Chicago's department of meteorology. A member of the
                            > > > > University of Arizona
                            > > > > faculty, he was first an associate professor, then a
                            > > > > _full_ professor in the
                            > > > > real-world department of meteorology. Full
                            > > > > professorships in moneyed
                            > > > > academic departments from world-class Universities are
                            > > > > not handed out like
                            > > > > happy meals.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > McDonald was also a senior physicist in the
                            > > > > University's Institute of
                            > > > > Atmospheric Physics, served as both associate director
                            > > > > and scientific
                            > > > > director... where he was a preferred advisor to
                            > > > > numerous federal agencies,
                            > > > > including the National Science Foundation, the Office
                            > > > > of Naval Research, the
                            > > > > National Academy of Sciences, and the Environmental
                            > > > > Science Service
                            > > > > Administration. If he'd been for sale to a foreign
                            > > > > government, the price tag
                            > > > > would have been in the high nine figures. This
                            > > > > individual was a world-class
                            > > > > act of trained intelligence, a top drawer scientist, a
                            > > > > hard-nosed
                            > > > > researcher, and was "afraid of nothing," ... he'd
                            > > > > also, along with his wife,
                            > > > > seen a UFO!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It's no stretch he was the Klansman skeptibunky's
                            > > > > worst nightmare. He was a
                            > > > > brave and talented intellectual, 'a man of, zeotropic,
                            > > > > color' with age,
                            > > > > experience, and reputation. He could say, and very
                            > > > > well, exactly what he
                            > > > > meant! ...And... he held the "ace river card", good
                            > > > > reader... he wore an
                            > > > > academic 'badge'!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > It's no wonder that he would have to be destroyed.
                            > > > > ...And he was. Verily.
                            > > > > Thank _you_, Mr. Klass (...et al living and dead...).
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Again -- Dr. McDonald was an articulate, engaging, and
                            > > > > compelling speaker
                            > > > > with a fine sense of humor as reported by seminal
                            > > > > ufologist Richard Hall,
                            > > > > and, as the listener will discover, constructively
                            > > > > humorous. He was even
                            > > > > able to make his audience _laugh_ at his opposition
                            > > > > (likely his most
                            > > > > unforgivable 'sin', on reflection, against his
                            > > > > back-shooting, corner-sniping
                            > > > > and tres-cowardly opponents) as he exemplifies, even
                            > > > > today, the totality of
                            > > > > their collective failure to pursue _real_ science with
                            > > > > reasonable examples,
                            > > > > faultless logic, and illustrative parables... or
                            > > > > pertinent conjectures based
                            > > > > on facts and truly scientific thinking... like Dr.
                            > > > > McDonald was legend to be
                            > > > > able to do... Listeners of Connors' compilation are
                            > > > > enabled to hear that for
                            > > > > themselves...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > McDonald produced no books on the subject of UFOs,
                            > > > > unfortunately, but did
                            > > > > produce several short pieces on his series of lectures
                            > > > > and presentations
                            > > > > made to learned colleagues and other professional
                            > > > > persons. These talks
                            > > > > included explications on:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 1. Our Science in Default ... a paper detailing 22
                            > > > > Years of Inadequate UFO
                            > > > > Investigations
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 2. The "Problem" of Unidentified Flying Objects ...
                            > > > > thoughts on perceiving a
                            > > > > cover-up.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 3. Meteorological Factors in Unidentified Radar
                            > > > > Returns
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 4. UFOs And The Condon Report ... A Scientist's
                            > > > > Critique on Condon's
                            > > > > validity and procedure.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > 5. Statement on UFOs ... Hearings Before The Committee
                            > > > > on Science.
                            > > > > Debunking the debunkers.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > This is a hint of what the listener is treated to...
                            > > > > sober and intelligent
                            > > > > reflections on the reality of UFOs. No hyperbole or
                            > > > > histrionics... just
                            > > > > straight science as pure as the garden variety
                            > > > > skeptibunky (Klass et al)
                            > > > > would _purport_ to want to have it!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Verily! Weigh Dr. McDonald's concise speech of even
                            > > > > _yesterday_ against the
                            > > > > state of the art skeptibunker's duplicitous pule of
                            > > > > today, and be not too
                            > > > > surprised with regard to who arrives the proverbial
                            > > > > day-late-and-dollar-short! All the senseless
                            > > > > faux-skepticisms still trotted
                            > > > > out currently with insentient and numbing regularity
                            > > > > were asked and
                            > > > > answered, proffered and discredited... suggested and
                            > > > > invalidated decades ago
                            > > > > by James E. McDonald! Wendy Connors, indeed, provides
                            > > > > you with a primary
                            > > > > reference proof you can hold in your hands! UFOs
                            > > > > _are_ real!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...That's not _all_ that will be found on Wendy's
                            > > > > current compilation!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...There's Edward R. Murrow, one of the last few media
                            > > > > journalists who had
                            > > > > respect for the sensibilities of news consumers and
                            > > > > who believed that an
                            > > > > _informed_ public was the one best served. Not
                            > > > > resorting to cheap-shots,
                            > > > > easy sensationalism or degrading comedy, he puts the
                            > > > > subject of UFOs
                            > > > > squarely in the street during an incisive thirty
                            > > > > minute radio program... as
                            > > > > valid today as it was in 1950!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...There's Air Chief Marshall, Lord Hugh Dowding, dead
                            > > > > in 1970, a British
                            > > > > Royal Air Force Chief of Staff, who relates his belief
                            > > > > in the ETH (a belief
                            > > > > maintained until the end of his life) on August 9,
                            > > > > 1954.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...There's a copy of "Open Mind Debate" _ A public
                            > > > > affairs program from 1960
                            > > > > where Professor Eric F. Goldman of Princeton
                            > > > > University moderates an
                            > > > > _astonishing_ program on the subject of UFOs. The
                            > > > > subject, "Are Flying
                            > > > > Saucers Only Science Fiction"?... is debated by
                            > > > > guests: Dr. J. Allen Hynek,
                            > > > > Dr. Donald H. Menzel, Dr. Ronald Leonard Sprinkle, Dr.
                            > > > > Frank Saltzburg and
                            > > > > researcher John G. Fuller. Be amazed how cagey,
                            > > > > obfuscating, evasive, and
                            > > > > _guarded_ Dr. Menzel can be... and wonder why.
                            > > > > Reflect on why he would be
                            > > > > the _only_ panel member to get angry... Do scientists
                            > > > > _really_ do as they
                            > > > > want?
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > That's not all! General Douglas MacArthur holds forth
                            > > > > on UFOs and
                            > > > > extraterrestrials! Dr. Adolph G. Dittmar explicates
                            > > > > on them! Dr. Ivan T.
                            > > > > Sanderson lectures about them! Robert Coe Gardner
                            > > > > cogitates in their
                            > > > > regard... out loud! Dr. Willy Ley compellingly
                            > > > > expounds! Wow!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > That's, still, not all! Twelve hours less change,
                            > > > > total time, awaits the
                            > > > > open mind and courageous heart of a curious listener.
                            > > > > ...And _be_
                            > > > > curious... good reader!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Curious, you increase our aggregate bravery to
                            > > > > challenge the unknown; by
                            > > > > becoming more brave; you expand and elevate our
                            > > > > society; you help to re-take
                            > > > > our hijacked mainstream! Additionally, you invalidate
                            > > > > the specious
                            > > > > pronouncements of Philip Klass (et al) and his
                            > > > > capering coterie of cultish
                            > > > > apologists, men who have always resorted to character
                            > > > > assassination,
                            > > > > baseless innuendo, and duplicitous mechanism... when
                            > > > > they can't debate their
                            > > > > worthy opponents competently on the issue at hand and
                            > > > > are keen, only, upon
                            > > > > grinding their own duplicitous axes...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ...And who can blame them... standing tall only
                            > > > > insures their demise... real
                            > > > > debate hastens their destruction... real dialogue only
                            > > > > provides for the
                            > > > > righteous invalidations they have earned! But, then, I
                            > > > > don't _care_ what
                            > > > > their reasons are for their obfuscation! They are not
                            > > > > shared with _me_, and
                            > > > > so are then unacceptable, on spec!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > That these threadbare and disingenuous pelicanists
                            > > > > stand in the way of human
                            > > > > progression with their senseless and obstinate
                            > > > > obliviousness, that they
                            > > > > ignore recorded history, or that they connive to
                            > > > > despoil, degrade, and
                            > > > > destroy their betters... are reasons enough to
                            > > > > discredit them -- provide for
                            > > > > _their_ professional demise... dismiss _their_ legacy,
                            > > > > such as it is! Yea
                            > > > > and Verily!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Wendy Connors provides, in my opinion, ample
                            > > > > historical evidence for the
                            > > > > validity of all the preceding contentions in her
                            > > > > latest compilation, "James
                            > > > > E. McDonald & The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis." The
                            > > > > listener should not be
                            > > > > disappointed...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > More info and purchase information can be found
                            > > > > contacting Wendy Connors at:
                            > > > > wendy@... ... Read on!
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > alienview@...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > www.AlienView.net
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list
                            > > > > dedicated to:
                            > > > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the
                            > > > > Paranormal.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                            > > > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted
                            > > > > to this list require
                            > > > > further investigation.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ---------------------------------
                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                            > > > > Terms of Service.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > =====
                            > > > > ***********************************
                            > > > > ***********************************
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Dave Ocame, N1YVV
                            > > > >
                            > > > > East Shore Park Observatory
                            > > > > FN31ng
                            > > > > -72.53856 longitude
                            > > > > 41.16797 latitude
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                            > > > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                            > > > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                            > > > require
                            > > > > further investigation.
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                            > > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                            > > >
                            > > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >
                            > > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                            > > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                            > > >
                            > > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                            > > require
                            > > > further investigation.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > UFOnet is an international news and discussion list dedicated to:
                            > > UFOs, UAP, Anomalous Phenomena in general and the Paranormal.
                            > >
                            > > To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > ufonet-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > > To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail message to:
                            > > ufonet-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > > Website (Dutch only): http://www.ufonet.nl/
                            > > Messages to the list-owner: ufonet-admin@...
                            > >
                            > > Caution, many reports of unidentified phenomena posted to this list
                            > require
                            > > further investigation.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.