Fwd = UFO UpDate: Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'
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Original Subject: UFO UpDate: Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'
Original Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:57:34 -0400
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Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:43:00 -0300
Subject: CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?' - Transcript
Aired July 1, 2003 - 21:00 ET
This is a rush transcript. This copy may not be in its final
form and may be updated.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roswell, '47. One picture showed three dead
aliens laying side by side, apparently on some kind of a canvas
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Tonight: What really happened at Roswell, New Mexico, 56
years ago this week? Did the United States military cover up a
UFO crash landing, complete with alien bodies? Do UFOs exist?
Have they been here? Tonight we return to Roswell with those who
were there. Walter Haut -- he was the information officer at
Roswell Army Air Field. He wrote the now famous July 8, 1947,
press release that said a flying disk had been recovered. Glenn
Dennis -- he worked at a Roswell funeral home and says someone
claiming to be the airfield's mortuary officer called to ask him
about small caskets. Nancy Easley [ph] Johnston -- her father
was in charge of security and clean-up at the Roswell site.
Jesse Marcel, Jr. -- his father was a Roswell intelligence
officer. He says he saw debris samples his father brought home
from the crash site.
And later, Don Schmitt, one of the world's leading UFO experts;
Leslie Kean, a journalist investigating the incident known as
"Pennsylvania's Roswell"; Dr. William Doleman, archeologist, who
conducted tests on the Roswell site last year; and Julie Shuster
[ph], Walter Haut's daughter and executive director of the
International UFO Museum at Roswell. All next on LARRY KING
By the way, we'll be seeing clips tonight and we refer you to
the Sci-Fi Channel's documentary, "The Roswell Crash: Startling
New Evidence," that's now available on DVD, and we thank them
for their help in this program tonight.
We start in Roswell, New Mexico with two guys who were there,
Walter Haut, who was the United States Air Force public
information officer at Roswell Army Air Field, and Glenn Dennis,
who was working at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New
What call did you get, Glenn?
GLENN DENNIS, FUNERAL WORKER CALLED BY MILITARY RE '47 CRASH: I
received a call from the mortuary officer, informing...
KING: Go ahead. I'm hearing someone else talking. Go ahead. Go
ahead, Glenn. Continue. All right, I think that's Walter
talking. I think we're trying to talk to Walter at the same time
we're talking to Glenn. One at a time. Glenn, what call did you
DENNIS: I received a call from the mortuary officer at the base,
asking me how many infant hermetically sealed caskets we had,
three- and-a-half to four feet, in stock. And I told him -- I
KING: What did you make of that?
DENNIS: ... we only had one. It's not military. But I said, I
can call the Amarillo, Texas, coffin company by 3:00 this
afternoon and have all you need by noon tomorrow
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] I said, What's going on out there? And he said,
That's not important. Then he calls me back later and he wants
to know how embalming chemical would alter the tissues, the
stomach contents, and what was our preparation [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
bodies laying out in the elements for days. I said, Sir, we have
to -- the mortuary officer has to tell us what he wants and how
he wants it and what procedure he wants us to follow. And he
became a little bit upset. But anyway, that was the way that it
all started off with me right there.
KING: All right, Walter, what supposedly happened at the air
base, where you were the public information officer?
WALTER HAUT, FIRST TO MAKE 1947 CRASH INCIDENT PUBLIC: We came
up with the fact that we had in our possession a flying saucer,
and Colonel Blanchard [ph] told me to put it out on every medium
I can put it out on, which I did as best I could. And I went
home that evening, and THAT telephone and everything that they
can use was running completely on -- I don't know what kind of
value, but I think it ultimately quit at about 3:00 o'clock in
the morning. It was...
KING: Now, did...
HAUT: ... a long -- go ahead.
KING: Were you ever asked to countermand that release? Were you
ever asked to change what you were first asked to say?
HAUT: No, I was not told to change it. I put out the facts that
we had in our possession, a flying saucer.
KING: Did you, Walter, ever see any of the wreckage?
HAUT: No, sir.
KING: What was said in the days subsequent? Was there a lot of
talk about this? Did people at the airfield say they had seen
any of these bodies or seen any of these creatures? Was it a
wide amount of discussion at Roswell?
HAUT: No. I think you have to take in the idea that the people
on the base were accustomed to keeping their mouths shut, if I
may use that expression. The need just to talk about information
doesn't fit [ph]. People that were working on the base knew what
was going on in the aircraft that they were working on. The
persons like myself, the flymen, we were accustomed to taking
off at certain times and turning around and keep on going.
KING: Well, we're going to -- before we continue questioning,
we're going to show you a clip from the Sci-Fi Channel
documentary, "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence." It's
now available on DVD. And we'll come back with Walter and Glenn.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside of Roswell, southwest of Highway 285,
William Woody [ph] and his father reported seeing a fiery object
descending toward earth.
KEVIN D. RANDLE, PH.D., AUTHOR, "OPERATION ROSWELL": What's
interesting about the Woody aspect of it is that he and his
father the next day, or a day or two later, tried to go out to
see if they could find where the thing fell and ran into the
military cordon. So we've got an interesting little
corroboration there that the military was interested in it, and
they were turned back by the cordons.
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: I know that Walter is a little under the weather, so I'll
just have a question or two left for you, Walter, and let you
get out and get some help. Did not the next day General Roger
Ramey [ph] in Fort Worth say that the object was a weather
HAUT: Yes. That's what came out. The general just put in a --
it's -- You're wrong when you talk about it. It's just a weather
balloon, and forget it. That's about...
KING: The key question for you, Walter, is, what do you believe?
HAUT: Well, I believe, personally, that we had in our possession
a flying saucer, and that's the whole sum -- the story, as far
as I was concerned.
KING: So you believe aliens crashed and that -- and that crashed
at Roswell, New Mexico, at the air base. Walter, I hope you feel
better. I thank you for spending some time with us.
Glenn Dennis will remain. Other guests will join us. Be well,
We'll return with more on the incredible events of 56 years ago
at Roswell, New Mexico, still one of the most talked-about
events ever. Don't go away.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange wreckage that Brazel [ph]
discovered spanned an area 300 yards wide by a mile long. That
parcel of land, known to investigators as the debris field, is
where some believe an extraterrestrial craft blew apart and fell
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Remaining with us is Glenn Dennis, who worked at the
Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New Mexico. Joining us from
Colorado Springs is Nancy Easley Johnston, the daughter of Edwin
Easley [ph], the Army Air Corps officer in charge of security
and clean-up at the Roswell site. And in Helena, Montana, is Dr.
Jesse Marcel, Jr., the son of Major Jesse Marcel, who was an
intelligence officer at Roswell. He says he saw debris samples
that his father brought home.
Glenn, back to you. What was the follow-up? What was the
eventual result? Did they ever order any of these caskets?
KING: Did they order -- did the Army Air Force ever order
anything from the funeral home?
DENNIS: No, sir, they did not. They did not order anything.
KING: How do you know the Air Force was calling you?
DENNIS: Well, because I knew the mortuary officer out there very
well. We were close friends.
DENNIS: And I knew all the people out there. We worked at the
hospital. We had the only ambulance business, and we were
involved quite a bit out at the base. Also, we had a military
contract. So I knew them all.
KING: Do you agree with Walter? Do you think that a -- that a
foreign object landed there with aliens at Roswell 56 years ago?
HAUT: Well, I agree with him. One reason I agree with him,
because all the ranchers and farmers knew what weather balloons
were. And every time they found one, there's a little instrument
on the end. And if they turned that in, they got 25 bucks. When
this happened, they had no idea what it was. They filled their
pick-ups full of metal -- I mean, full of the debris, brought it
in to the Roswell Army Air Field. And that's where all the
investigation started, right there.
KING: All right, Nancy, your father was Army Air Corps officer
in charge of security and clean-up. What did he -- how old were
you at the time?
NANCY JOHNSTON, DAD HEADED ROSWELL CRASH SITE SECURITY: I was a
year-and-a-half old, so I remember very little!
KING: What did he tell you later on? JOHNSTON: My father was
reluctant to ever talk about this incident. Once my sister and I
discovered that an incident had occurred that he had been part
of, when we asked him about it, he always told us that he had
promised President Truman that he would not discuss it. And he
stuck with that up until the end -- until almost the very end.
KING: Doesn't by the fact that he wouldn't say anything tell you
that something happened?
JOHNSTON: I'm sure something happened. I am not privy to the
knowledge of what exactly happened, but I'm sure something
KING: And Jesse Marcel, Jr., your father was an intelligence
officer. You said you saw debris samples that he brought home?
What did you see?
DR. JESSE MARCEL, JR., DAD SHOWED HIM CRASH SITE DEBRIS: Yes,
Larry. You know, my dad was the -- one of the intelligence
officers for the 509th Bomb Group. And as such, it was his job
to investigate unusual events like what happened out there. And
he was called out one night to the ranch where this thing had
landed, picked up some of the debris. He and one of the CIC [ph]
agents picked up some of the debris and loaded it in the back of
our 1942 Buick. And since our house was on the way to the air
base, my dad just swung by the house to show my mother and
myself what they had found out there because he realized this
was something very, very unusual, something unique, as a matter
of fact, because he didn't think we would ever see anything like
this again, which, of course, I have not.
And he drove by the house, put it on kitchen floor, woke my
mother and myself us up so we could look at this. And we got out
in the kitchen and looked -- I looked at the debris that was on
the floor, and there was just a lot of metal parts, metallic,
like, foil- like debris, some I-beam material and some black
plastic material. And the first thing he wanted us to do was to
look for electronic components, such as vacuum tubes, resistors
or condensers because I think he said something like this is
part of a flying saucer. And being a young kid at the time, I
didn't know what a flying saucer was, but I sure realized later.
But I examined some of the debris, some of the foil. I didn't --
picked it up, looked at it. Didn't try to bend or tear it or
stress it in any way. But I found something very unusual. There
were some I-beams that were about a foot, a foot-and-a-half
long. And along the inner surface of the I-beams, you could see
some sort of writing. And there was kind of a purple metallic
hue, as you could see very well if you held this up to the
light. And I thought at first this was like Egyptian
hieroglyphics, but later thought it was not hieroglyphics at all
but more like geometric symbols.
KING: I want to pick up there in a minute, but I want to -- hold
on one second, Jesse. I want to toss to film clip of your father
talking a little about this. Let's watch.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP] JESSE MARCEL, SR., 509TH BOMB GROUP: One
thing I was certain of, being familiar with all air activities,
that it was not a weather balloon nor an aircraft nor a missile.
It was something else, of which -- we didn't know what it was.
There were just fragments strewn all over the area. So we
proceeded to pick up the parts. A lot of it had a lot of little
numbers with symbols that -- to me, I call them hieroglyphics
because I could not interpret them. They could not be read. They
were just like symbols of something that meant something. These
little numbers could not be broken, could not be burned. I even
tried to burn that, would not burn. See, that stuff weighs
nothing. It's not any thicker than tinfoil in a pack of
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Jesse, subsequently, did your father come home and tell
you and your mother to forget everything?
MARCEL: Well, he sure did. As I understood, he flew the material
to Fort Worth to General Roger Ramey, who was 8th Air Force
commander, for his information. And when my dad got back the
next day or the day after, he sat my mother and myself down and
told us under no uncertain terms were we to ever discuss this
issue again. Of course, here I'm talking about, but -- but that
was very definitely one of the commands that he gave us, is not
to talk about it, not with your friends, not with anybody, not
even family members.
KING: So the obvious, Jesse, is what do you believe?
MARCEL: Well, I think it's something very extraordinary. I don't
know what it was. But since that time, I -- and thinking more
about this, I can't help but believe that it was something that
came from another civilization, much like a space probe that
we're sending to other planets right now and -- because the
material was unique, like I say. And I do know it was not a
weather balloon or even a mogul [ph] balloon, like the Air Force
later said, because the material was totally different.
KING: Nancy, what do you -- I know your father said, Say
nothing, and he wouldn't tell you what, and Truman and all that.
What do you believe?
JOHNSTON: I believe that something obviously happened out there
in the countryside close to Roswell that the government has
tried very hard all these years to keep us from understanding
and knowing about. Since I was not a witness, I have no personal
knowledge of what it was, but it had to have been something very
big at that time that the government wanted covered up.
KING: Now, Glenn, you still live -- you live in Roswell. Do you
DENNIS: That's true...
KING: Do you believe there's still stuff there? DENNIS: Well,
they go out every year, every year after all of the snows and
the winter. These government people go out with Geiger counters
and everything else, and they have this all marked off up there.
And I don't know if they found anything else or not because they
do not consult us anymore at all. But I do know the ranchers and
I know people up there because our mortuary has been involved up
there with most of it -- I mean, with the people there, and very
seldom will we ever talk about it. Once in a while, we'll sit
down and mention something, but not very often.
KING: Jesse, you think the government set your father up to be
kind of a fall guy here?
MARCEL: Well, he was a good soldier. He was just following
orders. And I'm sure that he was told to bring the message home
to the family that -- that not to talk about it because,
apparently, somebody found out that we actually saw the
material. And you know, years later, I asked him about the
possibility of something being still out there, and he said, No,
no, no. They vacuumed that place up, period.
KING: Now, you stay with us, Jesse. Nancy, thanks very much for
being with us. We'll hold Glenn, and we'll be -- thank you,
Nancy. We appreciate your input. We'll come back with more.
We'll meet our full panel later. Don't go away.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1947, Americans found their skies filled
with all sorts of strange flying objects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The UFO phenomenon really took off, actually,
in June of 1947 in the state of Washington when a pilot by the
name of Kenneth Arnold saw many objects going in formation at a
very, very high speed by Mount Rainier in Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arnold said that nine silvery objects he'd
seen looked like saucers skipping over a pond. The next day, his
story was front-page news, and a new term entered the American
lexicon: flying saucer.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - JUNE, 1997]
COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S. AIR FORCE: Over that period of time,
dummies were dropped all around there, and I think it's logical
to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come
out, they saw gurneys come out, they saw body bags come out
because the dummies were put into the body bags to protect them.
They saw people in pith helmet, they saw people in shorts out
there brushing the bushes, looking for the remnants of the
balloons. And when you put all that stuff together and spin it,
you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in
Roswell during that era.
[END VIDEO CLIP] KING: Remaining with us is Glenn Dennis, who
worked at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New Mexico, 56
year ago. Staying with us in Helena, Montana, is Dr. Jesse
Marcel, Jr., the son of Major Jesse Marcel. Joining us now from
Roswell is Donald Schmitt. Donald Schmitt is the former co-
director of J. Alan [ph] Hynek Center for UFO Studies. He's the
author of dozens of articles about UFOs, two best- selling books
about Roswell. In San Francisco is Leslie Kean. Leslie's an
investigative journalist, director of investigation of the
Coalition for Freedom of Information. She's looking into
connections of the 1965 incident in Kecksburg [ph],
Pennsylvania's. It's been called "Pennsylvania's Roswell." She's
not an expert on Roswell. We'll go to her in a little while. Dr.
William Doleman is an archaeologist, principal investigator for
the University of New Mexico's School of Contract Archaeology.
And he conducted a Sci-Fi Channel-sponsored archaeological dig
at the purported UFO crash site in Roswell in September of 2002.
Donald, what is your read on all of this?
DONALD SCHMITT, FORMER CO-DIR. HYNEK CTR. FOR UFO STUDIES: Well,
I think what has impressed me most of all, especially within the
recent years, pertaining to the investigation, as even Nancy
Strickland [ph] was describing, the level of extreme pressure
for these people who were involved to retain their silence, to
keep this event, keep the experience with them for as long as
they did, withholding the information even from their loved
ones, their wives, their children. And as you all know that a
deathbed testimony is admissible in a court of law as physical
evidence, and sadly, that's something that we are concentrating
on right now. And to date, not a single one of these people on
their deathbeds are describing any type of weather balloon,
rocket, aircraft, anything conventional. Invariably, they all
describe the bodies recovered, as well. And I'm not talking
about anthropomorphic wooden crash dummies.
KING: Dr. Doleman, what do you believe?
WILLIAM DOLEMAN, PH.D., LED 2002 ROSWELL ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG: I
believe that, clearly, something happened or it wouldn't have
made the news. At the same time, I kind of maintain a position
in which I'm a scientific investigator looking for physical
evidence, and I'm not in the business of evaluating the
testimony of various people. Instead, I'm engaged in a project
that, as far as I know, represents the first intensive effort at
what -- at least -- to find some kind of physical evidence of
whatever happened back there in 1947. And so in terms of what I
believe, it's really kind of irrelevant because what I believe
is that scientific investigation is the best way to go about
looking for that physical evidence.
KING: Jesse, why do you believe, if it occurred, the Army wanted
to cover it up? What's the big deal? Why not tell us there is
life somewhere else?
MARCEL: I wish I knew the answer to that question because, for
some reason, they are not ready for the public to know what's
really out there, in spite of the fact that we're sending probes
ourselves to other planets. And obviously, there are
civilizations out there that are far advanced of us and can send
probes here. So I really don't know the answer to the questions,
why they're trying to keep it a secret.
KING: Leslie, what happened at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, in 1965?
LESLIE KEAN, JOURNALIST INVESTIGATING "PA'S ROSWELL": Well,
something came down in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, in 1965. An
object was seen in the sky. There was a meteorite that night,
and it went through a number of different states. Citizens of
the community saw -- some of them saw it actually make a few
turns. It came in fairly slowly and landed in the woods near
Kecksburg. A number of witnesses actually saw the object on the
ground. Others saw a very extensive military presence come into
the region. They cordoned off the area. They kept people away
and eventually carted away something on the back of a flatbed
This is what the people of the area tell us. The Air Force has
told us that nothing came down that night. So we have a
contradiction here, and I'm interested in trying to access
information that will solve that mystery.
KING: What do you believe?
KEAN: I don't know what it was. There's no way to know. We know
that something came down. It could have been a Russian probe. We
don't know what it was, and I'm not in a position to formulate
an opinion. I just want -- I believe that the people have the
right to the information, the people of Pennsylvania, in
particular, who have really suffered a lot by having that
information denied to them. And I just think people have a right
to know. It was, you know, 1965. Why not tell people what
KING: We're going to take a break. Jesse Marcel, thanks very
much for joining us.
When we come back, our panel will remain, and we'll also meet
Julie Schuster, the executive director of the International UFO
Museum. We'll also be including your phone calls. We're
discussing Roswell, New Mexico, 56 years ago.
Charles Gibson of "Good Morning America" is tomorrow night's
special guest. Don't go away.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so Ramey told the press that all this
stuff was, was simply a weather balloon. And that was what most
of the press published the next day.
SCHMITT: They never saw the real material. The real material
went on to Washington at that time. So Marcel is ordered to pose
with the substituted radar reflector balloon. So the first press
release, there was a flying saucer, and six hours later, We're
sorry, ladies and gentlemen. It's just a weather balloon. The
question is, which press release is the true story?
[END VIDEO CLIP]
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE [voice-over]: Major Marcel [ph] and Captain
Sheridan Cavet [ph] traveled to the Foster Ranch and spent a day
gathering the strange wreckage. Marcel was so intrigued by the
debris that on his way back to the base, he stopped by his home
to show his family what he'd found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad came into my room, very excited and he
wanted to show us some material that he'd found. I think he --
the inclination or the intimation there was this was part of a
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Discussing the events in Roswell, New Mexico.
Joining us now is Julie Shuster. She is the executive director
of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell.
The earlier guest, Walter Haut, is her father.
What is the -- what did we see at the museum, Julie?
JULIE SHUSTER, EXEC. DIR., INTL. UFO MUSEUM AT ROSWELL: We have
a lot of things to offer and one of the things that we try to do
is show what Roswell looked like in 1947, give our visitors a
glimpse of what Roswell looked like and one of the things we do
is our radio display with the teletype and the audio control
that show what the radio station may have looked like where Mac
Brazel was interviewed.
KING: Do you show anything resembling what might have been
SHUSTER: We have a lot of artists' renditions of what the
saucers may have looked like. We do have a few other displays
that give some interpretations.
KING: We know what your father thinks. What do you think?
SHUSTER: Now if I said I agreed with my father, because he's
sitting here -- no -- I believe that something did happen. These
were people with incredible integrity and very conservative and
if they said something happened, something happened.
KING: Donald Schmitt, why would the government -- this has been
asked over the years, every time we hear about UFOs, what are
they hiding? For what purpose?
SCHMITT: Well, in just looking at the history, specifically of
New Mexico in 1947, I'm amazed when I especially lecture on the
college circuit when you ask where was first atomic bomb
detonated and invariably most people say Japan, whereas anybody
here in New Mexico, historically knows it happened right here,
just about 150 miles west of Roswell.
Roswell was the hot bed of all military research and testing at
that time, the captured V-2 rockets and if we go by the Air
Force's Project Blue Book records, which would suggest that
there were more UFO sightings here in 1947 than anywhere else,
whereas there were also more Soviet spies here...
KING: But the question is, why would they keep the information
from the public, assuming it's all true?
SCHMITT: Well, that would be part of it, the fact that it
immediately became a concern of the high ranking officials at
the Pentagon that if this was of anything of a foreign design
and it was some new intelligence, something that could
potentially be reverse engineered, replicated, that it would
become an immediate race with the Soviets, something that we
possessed and hopefully they did not.
KING: And that wouldn't be the thinking now. So we assume that
this information is passed along, so why doesn't -- Rumsfeld
SCHMITT: Well, as you have had former President Carter and
former President Clinton, the question could be posed to either
one of them, whereas they themselves tried to gain access to
information, actually tried to release information specifically
on UFOs and specifically on Roswell and yet they failed.
It is our position -- my partner Thomas Carey and I -- that it
is still a cover up of ignorance, that they have physical proof,
but they still don't have the answers as to from where, from why
and from whom.
KING: Glenn, why do you think they are not releasing it?
DENNIS: Well, from what I've been told, and being interviewed,
the problem is that whoever has this energy could control the
whole world and if we don't have the elements on our planet or
anything else to reproduce these, then it could be a problem.
I've heard this from three or four different sources and maybe
that's true. I don't know. If you remember, the Orson Welles
KING: "War of the Worlds."
DENNIS: And they didn't know if that would happen in New Mexico
or around the world, or anything else if we were being invaded
KING: Before we go to calls, Dr. Doleman, what do we know, know.
What can you definitively scientifically say?
DOLEMAN: Well, we were funded by the Sci-Fi Channel back in
September of last year to conduct an archaeological test
excavation at the putative Roswell impact site, which is one of
two or three sites. We were led to that location by Don Schmitt
and what we did was implement some fairly standard archaeology
test excavations methods in a staged research project to look
for evidence of the sort that had been originally reported by
the eyewitnesses and that primarily includes debris, which was
ostensibly all cleaned up, and a gouge or furrow mark in the
ground that was made by something that hit the ground and then
skipped back up in the air and came back down in another
locations. So the methods that we used to look for that involved
geophysical prospection using electromagnetic conductivity and
KING: I -- I don't want to get into too much technical stuff.
DOLEMAN: Yes, I'm trying to keep it..
KING: What we know?
DOLEMAN: What we know is that during the process of that
investigation, we recovered some things that will be analyzed.
We have soil samples in which we'll look for evidence of unusual
chemical composition using fairly standard geological
techniques, under the assumption vacuumed or not, if there was
debris, a lot of it was small, just like a broken glass and not
all of it was recovered and some of it must be in the dirt out
there if there is debris.
We also know that we found in one of the back hoe trenches that
we excavated an unusual feature that had essentially the shape
that you'd expect if there was a gouge and trench and the
backhoe trench where that thing was found was right where there
was supposed to be a gouge.
And so, essentially we're still in the analytical stage and the
results of the analysis are going to be, I think I made
available in a show presented by Sci-Fi coming up in October.
KING: Let me get a call here. Reykkavik, Iceland, hello.
CALLER: How have you, Larry?
KING: Fine. What's the question?
CALLER: Don't you think stories about the aliens being small
people with large heads and large eyes and small mouths just
came out of the experiments the military were doing after the
war? They used children's bodies to investigate the effects of
radiation on the human body.
KING: Any truth to that, Donald?
SCHMITT: The Air Force, in its continuing effort to provide
alternative explanations and theories became -- reached a
ridiculous level in 199, on the 50th anniversary, when it was
suggested that these were anthropomorphic wooden crash dummies,
albeit five years removed from 1947, with the suggestion that
the witnesses were merely time compressing the decades within
their memories. And until they are able to provide a single
witness contrary to our own, as evidenced by Jessie Marcel's
father and others that we have interviewed and have signed sworn
affidavits -- until they can provide a witness at the debris
field, at the impact site, at the base, on any of the outgoing
and incoming flights involved, suggesting this was an
alternative explanation, something prosaic, we will continue to
go where the witnesses and the testimony lead us.
KING: Let me get a break. As we go to break, we remind you that
the clips you are seeing are from Sci-Fi Channel's documentary
"The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence." It's now available
on DVD, and there you see the cover of the DVD.
And we'll be back with more calls. Don't go away.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
COL. JOHN HAYNES U.S. AIR FORCE: They are talking about 1947.
You're talking about dummies used in the '50s, almost a decade
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm afraid that's a problem that we
have with time compression. I don't know what they saw in '47
but I'm quite sure it probably was project Mogul. I think if you
find that people talk about things over a period of time, they
begin to lose exactly when the date was and there were lots of
dummies dropped. There were 2,500 balloons launched during this
30-year period in New Mexico alone.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the matter, James?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More of them are coming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Different ones. Like him. Many different
races. Different species. They're coming!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay?
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Julie Shuster, do a lot of people come to that museum?
SHUSTER: Yes, we have people from around the world coming. And
last year we had over 205,000 visitors through our doors.
KING: What's that to your right?
SHUSTER: This is Harold our anthropomorphic, he is one of the
explanations that was give that we mistook or the people of
Roswell in 1947 mistook as an alien. The only problem was he
wasn't used until 1952 to the late 1960s. So, we don't think he
looks like an alien.
KING: Do most the people come, are they come as believers?
SHUSTER: I think a lot of them do. I can't say most. We have
people that come with believe, don't believe, or never going to
believe. But a lot of people come and want to have questions
answered, if possible.
KING: Leslie Kean, what was found in Kecksburg?
KEAN: Well, Larry, that what is we want to find out, because we
KING: You mean, they won't show you?
KEAN: That is why we're doing the freedom of information act
initiative. We have a law firm working with us and we got a
history -- archives research firm. We have got a private
investigator. We got a team of people trying to get the
documentation that will tell us what came down. And that's why
we are working on it. We don't know.
KING: Hamilton, New Jersey, hello.
CALLER: Hi. I have a question for Glenn.
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Did you see what the military put in the coffin that was
KING: Did you ever see anything in a coffin, Glenn?
DENNIS: No, I did not. I did not see it. They were all shipped
out in what we call body bags and put in a hermetically sealed
container and was flown directly to Wright-Patterson.
KING: Tampa, Florida. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, my question for your panel is, what effect, if any
did the Cold War between United States and Russia have on
disclosure of information on possible UFO crashes such as the
one in Roswell in 1947.
KING: Don Schmitt has already referred to that. You think a
great effect, right Don?
SCHMITT: Yes, of course it did. Almost a predecessor to our race
to the moon, for example. And our development of atomic
propulsion. The soviets won't detonate their first atomic bomb
until August 1949 but our concern certainly was as to
development of such technology and in the event of such a crash
here at Roswell, again, certainly the hope that we were the only
ones in possession. And we also believe that it may have also
become a bit of a bargaining tool. The suggestion it was merely
a weather balloon was something that even Premier Joseph Stalin
didn't believe back in '47. And there are documents that suggest
that he was very concerned that we had even upped our technology
regarding the atomic bomb.
KING: Calgary, Ontario, Canada.
CALLER: Larry, a great fan.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: It seems that the most frequent reports of UFO sightings
are in the United States. You don't hear much about sightings in
other countries throughout the world.
KING: Doctor Doleman, are there others?
DOLEMAN: Unfortunately, I'm totally not an expert in the UFO
phenomenon. And I am an expert in archaeology, and finding
physical evidence. But I'm afraid I can't answer that question.
KING: Donald are there others?
SCHMITT: Yes. If I might, in fact, at the center for UFO
studies, for example, as they cataloged reports from all over
the world, we have reports from almost as many countries that
presently are in the United Nations.
KING: Why would you guess, Don, they land in Roswell, they don't
land in Washington?
They land in Ennui, they don't land in Paris.
Why not a large area where we could all see them?
SCHMITT: That is always been the nature of the beast, so to
speak. In other words, the phenomenon it is has been very late
night, very rural, very isolated, yet there have been profound
cases over military strategic air command facilities, in fact,
even the buzzing of the White House in subsequent weeks in July
of 1952 were formations of objects were tracked and aircraft
scrambling from Andrews Air Force Base on these unknowns. So
KING: Not just remote areas?
SCHMITT: New Mexico I think it had to do with the fact it was
hot bed of military activity at the time. And indeed in dealing
with something off the planet they were concerned with our
military potential back in 1947.
KING: We'll be back with more moments and more phone calls on
this ever-fascinating phenomenon.
Don't go away.
[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the front of the draw it said "Operation
This might interest you in big [UNINTELLIGIBLE] photo. Roswell,
One picture showed three dead aliens laying side by side,
apparently on some kind of a canvas or cloth, and showed two
others standing side by side, I assume they were the ones that
BRYANT GUMBEL, HOST: According to Cox the file contained photos
of the crashed spacecraft.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saucer, as they call it. Was not round as
it's been depicted in most cases. It was more egg-shaped, front
[END VIDEO CLIP]
KING: Julie, what does officialdom think of your museum?
SHUSTER: We've had no response, that I know, of from any
official sources. We've opened up. We don't try to tell people
one way or the other. So, nobody has questioned us, that we know
KING: What's that over there to your left?
SHUSTER: This is a prop. This alien was created as a prop for
the movie Roswell in 1994 and he is one of our most-
photographed, most enjoyed exhibits. People really like to check
him out, and see what the aliens might have looked like.
KING: That's been the general description of those who reported
to have seen them, that's the general description as to how they
SHUSTER: Yes, sir, it was a composite of witness accounts.
KING: Thanks Julie.
Oakland, California, hello.
CALLER: Hi Larry. A quick comment. First, there has been UFO
sightings of a major city such as Mexico City...
KING: They never land anywhere, though. They've been sighted
everywhere, but they only land in Wallawallawalla.
CALLER: and possible sightings in Phoenix. My question is why
are UFO investigations generally not taken seriously? Why are
they laughed off as science fiction?
KEAN: Well, she's right. There's a strong attitude of ridicule
in the media and everywhere else. I think it's become a cultural
phenomenon over many, many years. I think a lot of it is because
people are not informed about the issue. If journalists and
scientists and others were to study the data, to study what we
do know, and to listen to some of the experts that have talked
about the issue, I think they would change their minds. But it
has become sort of inculcated into our culture. So I encourage
people to do some research into this phenomena and, I think,
they will discover it worthy of investigation and worthy of news
coverage and there are scientists in this country and around the
world deserve resource to solve this problem for us.
And we can have these wonderful witnesses coming forward. We can
have documentaries made for years and years and years. We aren't
going to solve the problem until we get our scientists on board.
Get them the resources they need to find out for us, what these
things are and to solve this problem once and for all. And I
think that is what is needed. The Ridicule factor has to go.
KING: Hamburg, Germany. Hello.
CALLER: Hello, Larry. You are just great. My question is, how
could aliens visit the Earth if nothing can travel faster than
the speed of light?
KING: And not what?
CALLER: Speed of light?
KING: How co-- Donald, do you get that question?
SCHMITT: How could they travel the great distances and Dr.
Heinich [ph] used the analogy of a deck of playing cards and the
thickness of a card equally the distance from the Earth to the
Moon being a single card. And the distance from Alpha Centauri
4.3 light years being 19 miles of playing cards. So it truly is,
as far as astronomers and astrophysicists, for example -- that
it is beyond acceptance within their field.
But we still have to accept the possibilities of parallel
universes, interdimensional travel, worm holes, black holes and
that type of thing and even teleportation and possibly time
KING: Glenn, do you think we'll ever going to know the whole
DENNIS: Well, not at the rate it's going now. There's some
sightings just recently in Australia and New Zealand and also I
have a call the other day that people that had been in Egypt
visiting the pyramids and they shut them down for three or four
days and no tourists going out there on a count of the
KING: Go ahead, Glenn.
DENNIS: I don't know. I think more of the public understands
this, the more they know about it, the better the whole world
KING: Dr. Doleman, do you think we're going to get answers?
DOLEMAN: Well, I -- hard to say if we will or not, but I think
that Leslie made a very important point, and that's one of the
things that interested me in this project I did out there, that
is, that all of the Roswell story, up until this point is
largely based on eyewitness testimony and anecdotal evidence a
few suggestive documents and things like that. And there is
actually until this point, no one has bothered to go out and
look for actual physical evidence. My part in this whole thing
was to apply archaeological techniques to what is essentially an
archaeological problem. Go to a site and see if there is
KING: And we want to thank the Sci-fi channel. That documentary
is "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence" is now available
We thank Glen Dennis for spending all this time with us. He
worked at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell when all this
Donald Schmitt, is the former co-director of the Jay Allen
Heinich Center for UFO Studies.
Leslie Kean, is the investigative journalist looking into the
incident in Kecksburg [ph], Pennsylvania, that's been called
Dr. William Doleman, is the archaeologist and principal
investigator for University of New Mexico Office of Contract
And Julie Shuster, is executive director of the UFO Museum.
I'll come back and tell you tomorrow right after this.
KING: Before we tell you about tomorrow, one of the funniest
human beings on the planet and old friend, Buddy Hackett passed
away yesterday. What a guy Buddy was. He appeared on this show
once or twice, back in the early days, many times on my old
radio show. God, he was funny. And he was creative and he was
out of his mind. All he did was make you laugh. Dear buddy. We
miss him already. Had breakfast with him a month ago. Now he's
gone. Sleep well, Buddy.
Tomorrow night Charles Gibson of ABC's "Good Morning America"
will be our special guest.
Dolly Parton is going to be aboard on Thursday night.
To order a video of this transcript, please call 800-CNN-NEWS or
use our secure online order form located at www.fdch.com
========================== Forwarded message ends ========================
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frits Westra" <fwestra@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:22 PM
Subject: [UFOnet] Fwd = UFO UpDate: Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'
> Forwarded by: fwestra@... (Frits Westra)
> Originally from: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@...>
> Original Subject: UFO UpDate: Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'
> Original Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:57:34 -0400
> ========================== Forwarded message begins ======================
> From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@...>
> To: ufo UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@...>
> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:43:00 -0300
> Subject: CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?' - Transcript
> Source: CNN.Com
> Aired July 1, 2003 - 21:00 ET
> This is a rush transcript. This copy may not be in its final
> form and may be updated.
> [BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]
> UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roswell, '47. One picture showed three dead
> aliens laying side by side, apparently on some kind of a canvas
> or cloth.
There were two crashed flying saucers near Roswell.