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Re: [ufodiscussion] Re: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET Contactees

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  • Regan Power
    An age of 100 million years is far too young for a planet to evolve much more than a very primitive form of bacteria much less human, animal, and plant
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 2, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      "An age of 100 million years is far too young for a planet to evolve much
      more than a very primitive form of bacteria much less human, animal, and
      plant life...."

      While this does not detract from the force of your argument, Bill,
      (which seems robust to me), I think I should point out that the time
      available for evolution is not a universally fixed standard by which we can
      judge how far life might have evolved on a planet. Temperature is another
      basic factor, because this affects the rate at which inter-atomic
      interactions will occur on the planet and this sets an outline parameter for
      the rate at which evolutionary events can occur. Thus, in general, we would
      expect a warmer planet to evolve faster than a cooler one (all other things
      being equal), because physical events will occur there at a generally faster
      rate.

      Regan
      _____


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: William Hamilton
      To: exopolitics_institute@yahoogroups.com ; Astrosciences
      Cc: Skyopen@yahoogroups.com ; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 5:54 PM
      Subject: [ufodiscussion] Re: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET
      Contactees


      Hello Michael,

      I agree with Jim in that all contactees are being fed some disinformation.
      I will not speculate why at this time, but I do have some hypotheses
      concerning this.

      Back to Billy Meier and the scientific facts that Michael Horn doesn't face:

      The so-called Plejarans claim they come from the planet Erra which orbits
      the star Taygeta in the Pleiades.

      The stars in the Pleiades are thought to have formed together around 100
      million years ago, making them 1/50th the age of our sun, and they lie some
      130 parsecs (425 light years) away. From our perspective they appear in the
      constellation of Taurus, with approximate celestial coordinates of 3 hours
      47 minutes right ascension and +24 degrees declination.

      An age of 100 million years is far too young for a planet to evolve much
      more than a very primitive form of bacteria much
      less human, animal, and plant life. The explanations for this in the Meier
      material do not address the scientific issues
      involved.

      Now here is given the data as given to Meier concerning the Planet Erra in
      comparison to Earth:


      COMPARISON BETWEEN EARTH AND PLANET ERRA

      PLANET EARTH PLANET ERRA
      Approx. distance to its central sun 150 million kilometers
      (94 million miles) 150 million kilometers
      (94 million miles)
      Orbital time around its central sun 365.25 days 365.25 days
      Inclination of planet's imaginary axis 23.5 degrees 22.99 degrees
      Equatorial diameter 12,756 kilometers
      (7,922 miles) 12,749 kilometers
      (7,917 miles)
      Density 5.520 grams/cm3 5.521 grams/cm3
      Composition of Troposphere / Atmosphere 20.9% oxygen; 78.1% nitrogen;
      1% trace amounts of argon and other gases 32.4% oxygen; 67.3% nitrogen; 0.3%
      trace amounts of argon and other gases
      Surface gravitation 1 Earth gravity 1.0003 Earth gravity
      Escape velocity 11.18 km/sec 11.19 km/sec



      As shown above, one year on ERRA lasts exactly as long as it does here on
      Earth but is divided into 13 months instead of 12 (a month is called "Asar"
      in their language), with a compensating time of 23 years. A day on Erra
      (called "Musal") has 23 hours and 59.4 minutes. An hour (called "Odur")
      correlates almost exactly to an hour on Earth.

      A very convenient near duplicate of Earth measurements, but of chief concern
      is the higher oxygen level and lower nitrogen level in the atmosphere of
      Erra.

      The 77% of nitrogen, 21% of oxygen and 1% of carbon dioxide as well as other
      gasses readily available in the atmosphere represent the ideal figures
      necessary for the survival of living beings. Oxygen, a gas that is vital for
      living beings, helps food to be burned and converted into energy in our
      bodies.

      If the oxygen percentage in the atmosphere were greater than 21%, the cells
      in our body would soon start to suffer great damages. The vegetation and
      hydrocarbon molecules needed for life would also be destroyed. If this
      percentage were any less, this would cause difficulties in our respiration,
      and the food we eat would not be converted into energy. Therefore, the 21%
      of oxygen in the atmosphere is the most ideal quantity determined for life.

      No less than oxygen, other gasses like nitrogen and carbon dioxide are also
      arranged in the ideal quantity for the needs of living beings and the
      continuity of life. The amount of nitrogen in the atmosphere has the ideal
      ratio to balance the harmful and burning effects of oxygen. This ratio
      represents the most appropriate value required for photosynthesis, which is
      essential for life's energy supply on the earth. Moreover, the amount of
      carbon dioxide has the most appropriate value that is needed to maintain the
      stability of the surface temperature of the earth and to prevent heat loss
      especially at night time. This gas, comprising 1% of the atmosphere, covers
      the earth like a quilt and prevents the loss of heat to space. If this
      amount were greater, the temperature of the earth would increase
      excessively, causing climatic instability and posing a serious threat
      against living beings.

      These proportions remain constant, thanks to a perfect system. The
      vegetation covering the earth converts carbon dioxide to oxygen, producing
      190 billion tons of oxygen every day. The proportion of other gasses is
      always kept constant on the earth by the help of interconnected complex
      systems. Life is thus sustained.

      If there were a fire started on Erra, the Plejarans would have a hard time
      ever putting it out and it would burn through all vegetation. It may be
      they now have technology to control those fires, but if they lived on Erra
      in a previous era when they had no such technology, what would they have
      done? Of course, the planet is so young they would need to have migrated
      from another planet and have settled there. It is possible that there
      bodies adapted to the atmosphere on Erra, but another difficulty arises when
      we realize that Semjase walked on earth in our atmosphere where the oxygen
      level would be so low for her system that she would have fainted. Her body
      would to be conditioned to breath our atmosphere in order for her to remain
      conscious and functioning.

      When Adamski revealed that his contact came from Venus little was known
      about that planet of clouds in 1953 and Venus was known to be, like Erra, a
      twin of Earth so it seemed almost possible. Later when our space probes
      like Venera landed on the surface of Venus to find an atmosphere of
      oppressive pressure and heat, we knew that Venus could not support human,
      animal, or plant life. Visitors from Mars were also considered possible in
      the 1950s, but now we know that if these visitors really came fom Mars and
      Venus, they would have lived underground or come from the future when those
      planets are terraformed, or they came from a planet far away.

      Why would they lie about their home worlds?

      I will give you one possibility. What if there were dangerous races
      flitting around in our galaxy and the "friendlies" want to make contact with
      people of earth and they did not want to pass on information as to their
      home planet because they did not want to make it a target for those who
      would invade and steal their resources. This is a highly speculative answer
      on my part, but when we examine the known, we can extrapolate the unknown.

      Contactee Howard Menger was warned by the visitors who contacted him that
      there were others here on Earth that were "not them" and that Howard should
      exercise caution when approached by visitors he had not met before. Howard
      revised his thinking in the last 20 years and now believes his friendly
      visitors did not come from home worlds in our solar system.

      I offer this as a suggestion as the alternative is that all contactees are
      making up stories with a great deal of detail and with information about UFO
      onboard systems that make sense.

      Sincerely,

      Bill Hamilton
      AstroScience Research
      http://www.astrosciences.info
      "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible."
      Fred Hoyle



















      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Exopolitics
      To: Exopolitics Institute
      Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:16 AM
      Subject: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET Contactees


      Hello Jim, I must say that I'm puzzled by your position that Billy Meier
      was fed disinformation by the Plejarans, presumably to protect him, and that
      you consequently think building up a database of information based on what
      ETs tell contactees is doomed to fail. First I detect a kind of cherry
      picking approach here where you accept what Billy is told by the Plejarans
      in some cases, e.g., their statements about the veracity of the Talmud of
      Jmmanuel and him being a 'true Prophet', and yet it appears that you will
      take issue with other information as unreliable, and not enough for
      exopolitical analysis.

      Second, you are assuming that all contactees are fed disinformation as
      occurred in the case of Billy. Some for protective reasons and others for
      malicious reasons. I think both occur yet we shouldn't assume that all
      contactees are fed disinformation from the particular case of Billy. That's
      an inductive argument where one's own biases about Billy being the model
      contactee case is used to guide analysis of other contactee cases.
      Consequently, we shouldn't assume that this means that the information
      provided by contactees is an unreliable base for exopolitical analysis.

      I think exopolitics like any other social science relies on comparing and
      contrasting a great many number of sources. Once we rely on just one source,
      problems arise, and our analyses are skewed. At the moment, the best means
      of testing contactee information in my view is to do a comparative analysis
      with other sources of information. For example, I've found multiple sources
      of contactee information confirming that human looking ETs first appeared in
      the Lyra constellation and then fanned out across the Galaxy in waves of
      colonizations. I would argue that contactees commenting on the journeys and
      adventures of the Lyran colonists to other star systems are giving us bits
      of the puzzle of galactic history. Similarly, we can test contactee
      information on the colonization on Earth and contrast it with other sources
      such as Sitchin's Earth Chronicles.

      Exopolitics like all social science disciplines is not an exact science
      since I anticipate that as we get to hear more from different ET
      civilizations, we will hear multiple stories about Galactic history, earth
      colonization, ET activities, etc. I think the more experience we have in
      sifting through these conflicting databases of information provided by ETs,
      the more likely we will educate ourselves as to what has happened on Earth,
      and come up with some sensible policy principles for guiding relations with
      ETs. I think ultimately exopolitics is analogous to the challenge
      confronting intelligences analysts of what is happening in different parts
      of the world. A decent analyst is trained in sifting through disinformation
      and reliable information so they in the end can come up with a reliable
      picture of what is occurring in different parts of the planet. In some
      cases, the source, either a contactee or the ETs themselves is reliable, in
      other cases, unreliable and we need to exercise more care in discerning the
      truth. Our task with ETs is very similar in my view.

      Consequently, contactees are certainly fed disinformation by ETs for
      protective and malicious reasons, but they are also given reliable
      information so we need to put on our intelligence analyst hats and sort
      through it all. Making generalizations that all ET contactees are fed
      disinformation and that this is an unreliable basis for exopolitical
      analysis is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
      Aloha, Michael

      P.S. I will also circulate this response on the prepare4contact forum
      since it raises important issues for forum members.

      ****
      Hello Bill,

      Your points are well taken. That's why I and others make a sharp
      distinction between the truth of what Meier himself has witnessed and
      experienced, and what he has been told by his contactors and then passed on
      to others through his Contact Reports.

      I have every reason to believe that other aliens also treat their
      contactees to disinformation, probably for the same reason of ensuring that
      we don't merely accept what they say as truth without first checking it all
      out for ourselves, and so that their contactees stand no chance of blowing
      the lid off of the UFO coverup (since science likes to assume that aliens
      would speak only the truth; therefore if it seems not to be truth, it must
      be the mistakes or lies invented by the alleged contactee -- so says the
      spokesperson for science.)

      For this reason any exopolitical goal of deducing what ET motives and
      methods are, based upon what their (alleged) contactees are told, is doomed
      to failure.
      Jim
    • William Hamilton
      Regan, Unfortunately, no temperatures were given. It would seem prudent for the visitors to explain their data when they should know we would question it. Bill
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Regan,

        Unfortunately, no temperatures were given.

        It would seem prudent for the visitors to explain their data when they should
        know we would question it.

        Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Regan Power
        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 2:36 PM
        Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Re: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET Contactees


        "An age of 100 million years is far too young for a planet to evolve much
        more than a very primitive form of bacteria much less human, animal, and
        plant life...."

        While this does not detract from the force of your argument, Bill,
        (which seems robust to me), I think I should point out that the time
        available for evolution is not a universally fixed standard by which we can
        judge how far life might have evolved on a planet. Temperature is another
        basic factor, because this affects the rate at which inter-atomic
        interactions will occur on the planet and this sets an outline parameter for
        the rate at which evolutionary events can occur. Thus, in general, we would
        expect a warmer planet to evolve faster than a cooler one (all other things
        being equal), because physical events will occur there at a generally faster
        rate.

        Regan
        _____


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: William Hamilton
        To: exopolitics_institute@yahoogroups.com ; Astrosciences
        Cc: Skyopen@yahoogroups.com ; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 5:54 PM
        Subject: [ufodiscussion] Re: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET
        Contactees


        Hello Michael,

        I agree with Jim in that all contactees are being fed some disinformation.
        I will not speculate why at this time, but I do have some hypotheses
        concerning this.

        Back to Billy Meier and the scientific facts that Michael Horn doesn't face:

        The so-called Plejarans claim they come from the planet Erra which orbits
        the star Taygeta in the Pleiades.

        The stars in the Pleiades are thought to have formed together around 100
        million years ago, making them 1/50th the age of our sun, and they lie some
        130 parsecs (425 light years) away. From our perspective they appear in the
        constellation of Taurus, with approximate celestial coordinates of 3 hours
        47 minutes right ascension and +24 degrees declination.

        An age of 100 million years is far too young for a planet to evolve much
        more than a very primitive form of bacteria much
        less human, animal, and plant life. The explanations for this in the Meier
        material do not address the scientific issues
        involved.

        Now here is given the data as given to Meier concerning the Planet Erra in
        comparison to Earth:


        COMPARISON BETWEEN EARTH AND PLANET ERRA

        PLANET EARTH PLANET ERRA
        Approx. distance to its central sun 150 million kilometers
        (94 million miles) 150 million kilometers
        (94 million miles)
        Orbital time around its central sun 365.25 days 365.25 days
        Inclination of planet's imaginary axis 23.5 degrees 22.99 degrees
        Equatorial diameter 12,756 kilometers
        (7,922 miles) 12,749 kilometers
        (7,917 miles)
        Density 5.520 grams/cm3 5.521 grams/cm3
        Composition of Troposphere / Atmosphere 20.9% oxygen; 78.1% nitrogen;
        1% trace amounts of argon and other gases 32.4% oxygen; 67.3% nitrogen; 0.3%
        trace amounts of argon and other gases
        Surface gravitation 1 Earth gravity 1.0003 Earth gravity
        Escape velocity 11.18 km/sec 11.19 km/sec



        As shown above, one year on ERRA lasts exactly as long as it does here on
        Earth but is divided into 13 months instead of 12 (a month is called "Asar"
        in their language), with a compensating time of 23 years. A day on Erra
        (called "Musal") has 23 hours and 59.4 minutes. An hour (called "Odur")
        correlates almost exactly to an hour on Earth.

        A very convenient near duplicate of Earth measurements, but of chief concern
        is the higher oxygen level and lower nitrogen level in the atmosphere of
        Erra.

        The 77% of nitrogen, 21% of oxygen and 1% of carbon dioxide as well as other
        gasses readily available in the atmosphere represent the ideal figures
        necessary for the survival of living beings. Oxygen, a gas that is vital for
        living beings, helps food to be burned and converted into energy in our
        bodies.

        If the oxygen percentage in the atmosphere were greater than 21%, the cells
        in our body would soon start to suffer great damages. The vegetation and
        hydrocarbon molecules needed for life would also be destroyed. If this
        percentage were any less, this would cause difficulties in our respiration,
        and the food we eat would not be converted into energy. Therefore, the 21%
        of oxygen in the atmosphere is the most ideal quantity determined for life.

        No less than oxygen, other gasses like nitrogen and carbon dioxide are also
        arranged in the ideal quantity for the needs of living beings and the
        continuity of life. The amount of nitrogen in the atmosphere has the ideal
        ratio to balance the harmful and burning effects of oxygen. This ratio
        represents the most appropriate value required for photosynthesis, which is
        essential for life's energy supply on the earth. Moreover, the amount of
        carbon dioxide has the most appropriate value that is needed to maintain the
        stability of the surface temperature of the earth and to prevent heat loss
        especially at night time. This gas, comprising 1% of the atmosphere, covers
        the earth like a quilt and prevents the loss of heat to space. If this
        amount were greater, the temperature of the earth would increase
        excessively, causing climatic instability and posing a serious threat
        against living beings.

        These proportions remain constant, thanks to a perfect system. The
        vegetation covering the earth converts carbon dioxide to oxygen, producing
        190 billion tons of oxygen every day. The proportion of other gasses is
        always kept constant on the earth by the help of interconnected complex
        systems. Life is thus sustained.

        If there were a fire started on Erra, the Plejarans would have a hard time
        ever putting it out and it would burn through all vegetation. It may be
        they now have technology to control those fires, but if they lived on Erra
        in a previous era when they had no such technology, what would they have
        done? Of course, the planet is so young they would need to have migrated
        from another planet and have settled there. It is possible that there
        bodies adapted to the atmosphere on Erra, but another difficulty arises when
        we realize that Semjase walked on earth in our atmosphere where the oxygen
        level would be so low for her system that she would have fainted. Her body
        would to be conditioned to breath our atmosphere in order for her to remain
        conscious and functioning.

        When Adamski revealed that his contact came from Venus little was known
        about that planet of clouds in 1953 and Venus was known to be, like Erra, a
        twin of Earth so it seemed almost possible. Later when our space probes
        like Venera landed on the surface of Venus to find an atmosphere of
        oppressive pressure and heat, we knew that Venus could not support human,
        animal, or plant life. Visitors from Mars were also considered possible in
        the 1950s, but now we know that if these visitors really came fom Mars and
        Venus, they would have lived underground or come from the future when those
        planets are terraformed, or they came from a planet far away.

        Why would they lie about their home worlds?

        I will give you one possibility. What if there were dangerous races
        flitting around in our galaxy and the "friendlies" want to make contact with
        people of earth and they did not want to pass on information as to their
        home planet because they did not want to make it a target for those who
        would invade and steal their resources. This is a highly speculative answer
        on my part, but when we examine the known, we can extrapolate the unknown.

        Contactee Howard Menger was warned by the visitors who contacted him that
        there were others here on Earth that were "not them" and that Howard should
        exercise caution when approached by visitors he had not met before. Howard
        revised his thinking in the last 20 years and now believes his friendly
        visitors did not come from home worlds in our solar system.

        I offer this as a suggestion as the alternative is that all contactees are
        making up stories with a great deal of detail and with information about UFO
        onboard systems that make sense.

        Sincerely,

        Bill Hamilton
        AstroScience Research
        http://www.astrosciences.info
        "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible."
        Fred Hoyle



















        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Exopolitics
        To: Exopolitics Institute
        Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:16 AM
        Subject: [exopolitics_institute] Disinformation and ET Contactees


        Hello Jim, I must say that I'm puzzled by your position that Billy Meier
        was fed disinformation by the Plejarans, presumably to protect him, and that
        you consequently think building up a database of information based on what
        ETs tell contactees is doomed to fail. First I detect a kind of cherry
        picking approach here where you accept what Billy is told by the Plejarans
        in some cases, e.g., their statements about the veracity of the Talmud of
        Jmmanuel and him being a 'true Prophet', and yet it appears that you will
        take issue with other information as unreliable, and not enough for
        exopolitical analysis.

        Second, you are assuming that all contactees are fed disinformation as
        occurred in the case of Billy. Some for protective reasons and others for
        malicious reasons. I think both occur yet we shouldn't assume that all
        contactees are fed disinformation from the particular case of Billy. That's
        an inductive argument where one's own biases about Billy being the model
        contactee case is used to guide analysis of other contactee cases.
        Consequently, we shouldn't assume that this means that the information
        provided by contactees is an unreliable base for exopolitical analysis.

        I think exopolitics like any other social science relies on comparing and
        contrasting a great many number of sources. Once we rely on just one source,
        problems arise, and our analyses are skewed. At the moment, the best means
        of testing contactee information in my view is to do a comparative analysis
        with other sources of information. For example, I've found multiple sources
        of contactee information confirming that human looking ETs first appeared in
        the Lyra constellation and then fanned out across the Galaxy in waves of
        colonizations. I would argue that contactees commenting on the journeys and
        adventures of the Lyran colonists to other star systems are giving us bits
        of the puzzle of galactic history. Similarly, we can test contactee
        information on the colonization on Earth and contrast it with other sources
        such as Sitchin's Earth Chronicles.

        Exopolitics like all social science disciplines is not an exact science
        since I anticipate that as we get to hear more from different ET
        civilizations, we will hear multiple stories about Galactic history, earth
        colonization, ET activities, etc. I think the more experience we have in
        sifting through these conflicting databases of information provided by ETs,
        the more likely we will educate ourselves as to what has happened on Earth,
        and come up with some sensible policy principles for guiding relations with
        ETs. I think ultimately exopolitics is analogous to the challenge
        confronting intelligences analysts of what is happening in different parts
        of the world. A decent analyst is trained in sifting through disinformation
        and reliable information so they in the end can come up with a reliable
        picture of what is occurring in different parts of the planet. In some
        cases, the source, either a contactee or the ETs themselves is reliable, in
        other cases, unreliable and we need to exercise more care in discerning the
        truth. Our task with ETs is very similar in my view.

        Consequently, contactees are certainly fed disinformation by ETs for
        protective and malicious reasons, but they are also given reliable
        information so we need to put on our intelligence analyst hats and sort
        through it all. Making generalizations that all ET contactees are fed
        disinformation and that this is an unreliable basis for exopolitical
        analysis is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
        Aloha, Michael

        P.S. I will also circulate this response on the prepare4contact forum
        since it raises important issues for forum members.

        ****
        Hello Bill,

        Your points are well taken. That's why I and others make a sharp
        distinction between the truth of what Meier himself has witnessed and
        experienced, and what he has been told by his contactors and then passed on
        to others through his Contact Reports.

        I have every reason to believe that other aliens also treat their
        contactees to disinformation, probably for the same reason of ensuring that
        we don't merely accept what they say as truth without first checking it all
        out for ourselves, and so that their contactees stand no chance of blowing
        the lid off of the UFO coverup (since science likes to assume that aliens
        would speak only the truth; therefore if it seems not to be truth, it must
        be the mistakes or lies invented by the alleged contactee -- so says the
        spokesperson for science.)

        For this reason any exopolitical goal of deducing what ET motives and
        methods are, based upon what their (alleged) contactees are told, is doomed
        to failure.
        Jim



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