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If Monkeys Could Fly.

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  • John Winston
    Subject: If Donkeys Could Fly----- Nov. 3, 2005. You might finish that statement with the words, then why or why can t I? . Thats not exactly how it
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 3, 2005
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      Subject: If Donkeys Could Fly----- Nov. 3, 2005.

      You might finish that statement with the words, "then
      why or why can't I?". Thats not exactly how it went in the
      movie, "Wizard Of Oz." but what I'll be trying to make
      some sense of it is about as unusual.

      The following is a subject that most people don't even
      want to talk about so here goes nothing. If you have
      the answers to everything in this life then you might pass
      this one up.

      ........................................................
      ........................................................

      An old acquaintance of mine from the contactee days
      has written a very insightful article which I am passing
      on here. He has many articles in his catalog which he
      supplies on request without charge.

      COMPATIBILITY OF ET LIFE TO REL-GION? YES OR NO!

      By

      C.A. HONEY

      Many of my readers have expressed curiosity
      as to why I have written extensively on the subject of
      re-igion in relation to UFOs and UFO investigation. I
      think that the question has been answered for most
      readers who have followed the UFO situation closely over
      the years; obviously newcomers will not have the
      background to automatically evaluate and judge as to why
      this is so. Therefore, this article is being prepared
      for their benefit.

      To help them in their quest for authentic
      knowledge let me set the stage by a short introduction
      to the main problem at hand. Until we can recognize that
      such a problem actually exists it will be almost
      impossible to take my assertion seriously that the main
      reason sec-ecy has been imposed, by what ever powers
      that be, is because of relig-ous ideas and/or opposition
      to the idea of extraterrestrial life in itself.

      Even within re-igious circles we find
      several ideas as to the exact nature of
      extraterrestrials who are visiting this planet. One
      group believes they exist and are "ang-lic" in nature.
      Another group believes they are demo-s led by Sa-an to
      deceive the world. Another group says they are merely
      humanoids who come from another planet. Each group is
      convinced they are absolutely correct in their own ideas
      and all the other groups are either deceived (usually by
      S-tan), or just mistaken in their ideas.

      Objections usually fall into the following
      categories: Those who believe that every word, comma or
      period of the Bi-le is inspired by the Almighty say that
      if intelligent aliens exist on other worlds then the
      Bi-le cannot be true and G-d doesn't exist. Another
      group believes that if aliens exist as intelligent
      beings then the Chris-ian idea of the Inca-nation of
      Je--s and Redemption is done away with.

      All seem to be of the opinion that if other
      intelligent life exists in the cosmos then that "proves"
      the theory of evo-ution is true and this again will
      destroy their faith.

      Another theory that is pretty well proven as
      fact is the idea that there is a continuous interchange
      of dust, spores, and other debris throughout
      interstellar space and that this was responsible for the
      beginnings of life, both plant and animal (labeled
      "Panspermia" by scientists.) This theory is severely
      criticized as Sat-nic in origin by those creationists
      who have tried to substitute "Intelligent Design" in
      place of regular cr-ationism theories. They believe that
      Panspermia backs up evo-ution and discredits the
      Chris-ian idea that Go- created everything by the spoken
      Word.

      Today we have a lot of Chr-stian and J-wish
      scholars who are classed as "Theistic Evo-utionists"
      which they define as the idea that -od created
      everything billions of years ago and since then has let
      it develop (through evolu-ionistic methods) into the
      diverse system around us all today. In other words, G-d
      created everything then turned it loose on its own.

      More problems exist. To them if intelligent
      aliens are found to exist anywhere else in the cosmos,
      then the Bi-le is destroyed as Go-'s Word. They think
      that if the Bib-e is true and is the Inspired Word of
      -od, than mankind could not have been created in the
      image of G-d and not remain entirely unique. Being
      unique is a requirement for their belief.

      Perhaps the biggest argument of all (both
      Chr-stians and Je-s) is that wicked or fallen an-els,
      have free will also and as non-terrestrial aliens could
      be dangerous to humans who try to communicate with them
      or contact them in any other way. Therefore we should
      make no attempt to interact with extraterrestrials in
      any way. To these individuals to do so invites "de-on
      possession" or control and must be avoided at all costs.

      Let me reproduce some of my Publication #249 that was
      entitled GO-ERNMENT SE- RECY ABOUT UFOS. It was
      concerned with the same subject and bears repeating at
      this point. Please bear with me if you have the
      publications with the same comments.

      Most followers of the "flying saucer" situation over
      the years are aware of the Brookings Report issued by
      the Brookings Institute in regard to the effects of
      releasing space information of certain types to the
      public at large. The essential part I am concerned with
      at this time is found on pages 215, 225 and 226 of their
      report and includes some comments from their footnotes.
      Quote:

      Anthropological files contain many examples of
      societies, sure of their place in the universe, which
      have disintegrated when they had to associate with
      previously unfamiliar societies espousing different
      ideas and different life ways; others that survived such
      an experience usually did so by paying the price of
      changes in values and attitudes and behavior.

      The positions of the major American rel-gious
      denominations, the Ch-istian sects, and the Eastern
      relig-ons on the matter of extraterrestrial life need
      elucidation.

      Consider the following: The Fundamentalist (and anti
      science) sects are growing space around the world. For
      them, the discovery of other life - rather than any
      other space product - would be electrifying.
      Missionary enterprises may have schools and a good
      deal of literature attached to them.

      One of the important things is that, where they are
      active, they appeal to the illiterate and semi-literate
      (including, as missions, the preachers as well as the
      congregation) and can pile up a very influential
      following in terms of numbers. Additionally, because of
      the international effects of space activities and, in
      the event of its happening, of the discovery of
      extraterrestrial life, even though space activities are
      not internationalized, it is very important to take
      account of other major re-igions.

      These quotes are only a brief portion of the entire
      Brookings Report, and only a few paragraphs from the
      entire report. They do make it plain that in their
      opinion major upheaval would occur around the world if
      the real truth about the reality of "flying saucers" was
      made public. I have reproduced comments from the
      Brookings Institute to document my statements that
      re-igious ideas comprised the major reason UFO se-recy
      was imposed, had some validity, and was the reason for
      the imposition of secre-y in the first place. While
      originally one of the reasons for se-recy had to do with
      keeping the "reality" hidden from Russia (and other
      countries), now that no longer applies.

      Further problems were documented by the NIDS REPORT
      (National Institute for Discovery Science), by Victoria
      Alexander. Here is a reproduction of my commentary on
      the survey by NIDS as it appeared in Publication #227
      back in January 2002: QUOTE:

      "The National Institute for Discovery Science released
      a report entitled The Alexander UFO Relig-ous Crisis
      Survey - The Impact of UFOs and Their Occupants on
      Re-igion. The report was generated by Victoria
      Alexander, with the help of her husband, John B.
      Alexander. It was sent to 1.000 ministers and priests
      and asked them to respond to questions in regard to
      what they believed would be the result if irrefutable
      proof of intelligent life in the universe was found.
      What would be the effect on rel-gious thought in the
      Un- ted States? About 77% of those receiving the survey
      failed to respond. The others did.

      "One thought that an intelligent ra-e might exist in
      outer space and never underwent a fall from grace, as
      did Adam and Eve. One respondent wrote, "There is
      considerable disparity between my opinions and those of
      my congregation who are largely very biased and
      generally uneducated."
      "While some thought the questions asked in the survey
      were of no value, others thought it raised other
      questions not asked. For example, some said that another
      r-ce might not have undergone the "fall" and therefore
      would need no redemption. Others thought that if
      redemption was necessary, -od would provide them a way.
      Still others wondered - if each planet needed a
      redeemer, would Je--s be required to go to each of these
      planets and be cru-ified for their s-ns. I am not making
      this up.

      "Most answers showed that instead of being objective
      and considering the actual questions asked, the
      respondents injected their own personal ingrained
      beliefs and refused to consider the questions without
      modifying them to conform to their personal belief
      system.

      "For example this response: "I believe this kind of
      survey is a hypothetical exercise in futility. You could
      well ask if rel-gious beliefs would be affected if we
      found out people were being reinc-rnated into
      watermelons, or some other such nonsense." How would
      you like to have the minister of your church exhibit
      such ignorance as to what is going on around him every
      day?

      "Another said, "Your questions assume past rel-gion is
      entirely based on a system of belief without tangible
      evidence or experience.
      Believe more is debatable, experience is unshakable."
      "Nothing of the sort was assumed. Past rel-gion is based
      on belief without tangible evidence, and experience such
      as that described by the believers is something that
      also has no tangible evidence to support it. Anyone can
      report an experience or "revelation" or some mir-culous
      happening that has occurred, but to anyone except the
      person who experienced it, it is merely hearsay.
      Assuming a "revelation" did occur, it certainly does not
      prove that -od was behind it. People who use certain
      drugs often have "revelations."

      "With UFO evidence or "flying Saucer" experiences
      reported, we have thousands of photos showing physical
      vehicles, including photos taken by the gun cameras of
      USAF fighter planes. We have radar reports than cannot
      be explained away as "temperature inversions" or other
      such nonsense.
      We have sightings by hundreds of eyewitnesses who all
      saw the same thing at the same time. In many instances
      they were separated by many miles so mass hallucination,
      an excuse often used by skeptics to explain mass
      sightings, cannot be used. This is tangible evidence,
      not depending upon anyone's belief system.

      "Some respondents did know the truth about this
      subject. Here are a few excerpts: "Faith has nothing to
      do with reason. Should there be extraterrestrial life,
      then it would have also to have been created by G-d."
      Another said.it is my belief that the Universe is well
      inhabited with obedient and holy intelligent people.
      This one world (Earth) according to the Bi-le is the
      only one in the problem of s-n and rebellion."

      "Some made no attempt to answer any of the survey
      questions, and in general, made fun of the survey
      itself. Such as, "This survey competes with a similar
      one I am working on. 'If donkeys could fly, how would
      this effect rel-gious attitudes?' But since donkeys
      don't fly, nobody has answered my survey with any
      seriousness." I wish I had this minister's address and
      name so I could enlighten him on just how ignorant and
      downright stupid he sounds. Yet this person is in a
      position of authority, giving advice and counseling to
      his congregation. -od help them.

      Part 1.

      John Winston. johnfw@...


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jahnets
      Bill just sent this out yesterday...You guys must be part of the same group... ... From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 3, 2005
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        Bill just sent this out yesterday...You guys must be part of the same
        group...



        -----Original Message-----
        From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of John Winston
        Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:12 AM
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        scottishlass4@...
        Subject: [ufodiscussion] If Monkeys Could Fly.


        Subject: If Donkeys Could Fly----- Nov. 3, 2005.

        You might finish that statement with the words, "then
        why or why can't I?". Thats not exactly how it went in the
        movie, "Wizard Of Oz." but what I'll be trying to make
        some sense of it is about as unusual.

        The following is a subject that most people don't even
        want to talk about so here goes nothing. If you have
        the answers to everything in this life then you might pass
        this one up.

        ........................................................
        ........................................................

        An old acquaintance of mine from the contactee days
        has written a very insightful article which I am passing
        on here. He has many articles in his catalog which he
        supplies on request without charge.

        COMPATIBILITY OF ET LIFE TO REL-GION? YES OR NO!

        By

        C.A. HONEY

        Many of my readers have expressed curiosity
        as to why I have written extensively on the subject of
        re-igion in relation to UFOs and UFO investigation. I
        think that the question has been answered for most
        readers who have followed the UFO situation closely over
        the years; obviously newcomers will not have the
        background to automatically evaluate and judge as to why
        this is so. Therefore, this article is being prepared
        for their benefit.

        To help them in their quest for authentic
        knowledge let me set the stage by a short introduction
        to the main problem at hand. Until we can recognize that
        such a problem actually exists it will be almost
        impossible to take my assertion seriously that the main
        reason sec-ecy has been imposed, by what ever powers
        that be, is because of relig-ous ideas and/or opposition
        to the idea of extraterrestrial life in itself.

        Even within re-igious circles we find
        several ideas as to the exact nature of
        extraterrestrials who are visiting this planet. One
        group believes they exist and are "ang-lic" in nature.
        Another group believes they are demo-s led by Sa-an to
        deceive the world. Another group says they are merely
        humanoids who come from another planet. Each group is
        convinced they are absolutely correct in their own ideas
        and all the other groups are either deceived (usually by
        S-tan), or just mistaken in their ideas.

        Objections usually fall into the following
        categories: Those who believe that every word, comma or
        period of the Bi-le is inspired by the Almighty say that
        if intelligent aliens exist on other worlds then the
        Bi-le cannot be true and G-d doesn't exist. Another
        group believes that if aliens exist as intelligent
        beings then the Chris-ian idea of the Inca-nation of
        Je--s and Redemption is done away with.

        All seem to be of the opinion that if other
        intelligent life exists in the cosmos then that "proves"
        the theory of evo-ution is true and this again will
        destroy their faith.

        Another theory that is pretty well proven as
        fact is the idea that there is a continuous interchange
        of dust, spores, and other debris throughout
        interstellar space and that this was responsible for the
        beginnings of life, both plant and animal (labeled
        "Panspermia" by scientists.) This theory is severely
        criticized as Sat-nic in origin by those creationists
        who have tried to substitute "Intelligent Design" in
        place of regular cr-ationism theories. They believe that
        Panspermia backs up evo-ution and discredits the
        Chris-ian idea that Go- created everything by the spoken
        Word.

        Today we have a lot of Chr-stian and J-wish
        scholars who are classed as "Theistic Evo-utionists"
        which they define as the idea that -od created
        everything billions of years ago and since then has let
        it develop (through evolu-ionistic methods) into the
        diverse system around us all today. In other words, G-d
        created everything then turned it loose on its own.

        More problems exist. To them if intelligent
        aliens are found to exist anywhere else in the cosmos,
        then the Bi-le is destroyed as Go-'s Word. They think
        that if the Bib-e is true and is the Inspired Word of
        -od, than mankind could not have been created in the
        image of G-d and not remain entirely unique. Being
        unique is a requirement for their belief.

        Perhaps the biggest argument of all (both
        Chr-stians and Je-s) is that wicked or fallen an-els,
        have free will also and as non-terrestrial aliens could
        be dangerous to humans who try to communicate with them
        or contact them in any other way. Therefore we should
        make no attempt to interact with extraterrestrials in
        any way. To these individuals to do so invites "de-on
        possession" or control and must be avoided at all costs.

        Let me reproduce some of my Publication #249 that was
        entitled GO-ERNMENT SE- RECY ABOUT UFOS. It was
        concerned with the same subject and bears repeating at
        this point. Please bear with me if you have the
        publications with the same comments.

        Most followers of the "flying saucer" situation over
        the years are aware of the Brookings Report issued by
        the Brookings Institute in regard to the effects of
        releasing space information of certain types to the
        public at large. The essential part I am concerned with
        at this time is found on pages 215, 225 and 226 of their
        report and includes some comments from their footnotes.
        Quote:

        Anthropological files contain many examples of
        societies, sure of their place in the universe, which
        have disintegrated when they had to associate with
        previously unfamiliar societies espousing different
        ideas and different life ways; others that survived such
        an experience usually did so by paying the price of
        changes in values and attitudes and behavior.

        The positions of the major American rel-gious
        denominations, the Ch-istian sects, and the Eastern
        relig-ons on the matter of extraterrestrial life need
        elucidation.

        Consider the following: The Fundamentalist (and anti
        science) sects are growing space around the world. For
        them, the discovery of other life - rather than any
        other space product - would be electrifying.
        Missionary enterprises may have schools and a good
        deal of literature attached to them.

        One of the important things is that, where they are
        active, they appeal to the illiterate and semi-literate
        (including, as missions, the preachers as well as the
        congregation) and can pile up a very influential
        following in terms of numbers. Additionally, because of
        the international effects of space activities and, in
        the event of its happening, of the discovery of
        extraterrestrial life, even though space activities are
        not internationalized, it is very important to take
        account of other major re-igions.

        These quotes are only a brief portion of the entire
        Brookings Report, and only a few paragraphs from the
        entire report. They do make it plain that in their
        opinion major upheaval would occur around the world if
        the real truth about the reality of "flying saucers" was
        made public. I have reproduced comments from the
        Brookings Institute to document my statements that
        re-igious ideas comprised the major reason UFO se-recy
        was imposed, had some validity, and was the reason for
        the imposition of secre-y in the first place. While
        originally one of the reasons for se-recy had to do with
        keeping the "reality" hidden from Russia (and other
        countries), now that no longer applies.

        Further problems were documented by the NIDS REPORT
        (National Institute for Discovery Science), by Victoria
        Alexander. Here is a reproduction of my commentary on
        the survey by NIDS as it appeared in Publication #227
        back in January 2002: QUOTE:

        "The National Institute for Discovery Science released
        a report entitled The Alexander UFO Relig-ous Crisis
        Survey - The Impact of UFOs and Their Occupants on
        Re-igion. The report was generated by Victoria
        Alexander, with the help of her husband, John B.
        Alexander. It was sent to 1.000 ministers and priests
        and asked them to respond to questions in regard to
        what they believed would be the result if irrefutable
        proof of intelligent life in the universe was found.
        What would be the effect on rel-gious thought in the
        Un- ted States? About 77% of those receiving the survey
        failed to respond. The others did.

        "One thought that an intelligent ra-e might exist in
        outer space and never underwent a fall from grace, as
        did Adam and Eve. One respondent wrote, "There is
        considerable disparity between my opinions and those of
        my congregation who are largely very biased and
        generally uneducated."
        "While some thought the questions asked in the survey
        were of no value, others thought it raised other
        questions not asked. For example, some said that another
        r-ce might not have undergone the "fall" and therefore
        would need no redemption. Others thought that if
        redemption was necessary, -od would provide them a way.
        Still others wondered - if each planet needed a
        redeemer, would Je--s be required to go to each of these
        planets and be cru-ified for their s-ns. I am not making
        this up.

        "Most answers showed that instead of being objective
        and considering the actual questions asked, the
        respondents injected their own personal ingrained
        beliefs and refused to consider the questions without
        modifying them to conform to their personal belief
        system.

        "For example this response: "I believe this kind of
        survey is a hypothetical exercise in futility. You could
        well ask if rel-gious beliefs would be affected if we
        found out people were being reinc-rnated into
        watermelons, or some other such nonsense." How would
        you like to have the minister of your church exhibit
        such ignorance as to what is going on around him every
        day?

        "Another said, "Your questions assume past rel-gion is
        entirely based on a system of belief without tangible
        evidence or experience.
        Believe more is debatable, experience is unshakable."
        "Nothing of the sort was assumed. Past rel-gion is based
        on belief without tangible evidence, and experience such
        as that described by the believers is something that
        also has no tangible evidence to support it. Anyone can
        report an experience or "revelation" or some mir-culous
        happening that has occurred, but to anyone except the
        person who experienced it, it is merely hearsay.
        Assuming a "revelation" did occur, it certainly does not
        prove that -od was behind it. People who use certain
        drugs often have "revelations."

        "With UFO evidence or "flying Saucer" experiences
        reported, we have thousands of photos showing physical
        vehicles, including photos taken by the gun cameras of
        USAF fighter planes. We have radar reports than cannot
        be explained away as "temperature inversions" or other
        such nonsense.
        We have sightings by hundreds of eyewitnesses who all
        saw the same thing at the same time. In many instances
        they were separated by many miles so mass hallucination,
        an excuse often used by skeptics to explain mass
        sightings, cannot be used. This is tangible evidence,
        not depending upon anyone's belief system.

        "Some respondents did know the truth about this
        subject. Here are a few excerpts: "Faith has nothing to
        do with reason. Should there be extraterrestrial life,
        then it would have also to have been created by G-d."
        Another said.it is my belief that the Universe is well
        inhabited with obedient and holy intelligent people.
        This one world (Earth) according to the Bi-le is the
        only one in the problem of s-n and rebellion."

        "Some made no attempt to answer any of the survey
        questions, and in general, made fun of the survey
        itself. Such as, "This survey competes with a similar
        one I am working on. 'If donkeys could fly, how would
        this effect rel-gious attitudes?' But since donkeys
        don't fly, nobody has answered my survey with any
        seriousness." I wish I had this minister's address and
        name so I could enlighten him on just how ignorant and
        downright stupid he sounds. Yet this person is in a
        position of authority, giving advice and counseling to
        his congregation. -od help them.

        Part 1.

        John Winston. johnfw@...


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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