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Enlightenment

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  • Ufocci@aol.com
    In a message dated 8/31/04 7:09:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... I knew you were not saying I was unethical. I was just explaining the proper conduct of a
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 31 8:41 PM
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      In a message dated 8/31/04 7:09:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drxdon@... writes:

      I most certainly was not saying that you were unethical nor was I implying so.  I
      was just speaking of hypnosis in general and my own opinion of its validity.  I
      said that even an "ethical" hypnotherapist may inadvertantly give their client
      subtle cues of which they are unaware.  I am not saying this of you; I don't
      even know you and am only slightly familiar with your organization.  I DO agree
      with you about Budd Hopkins, however, as being fairly obviously "leading" in his
      questions, even though he vehemently denies it.


      I knew you were not saying I was unethical.  I was just explaining the proper conduct of a hypnotist.  So don't worry yourself about hurting my feelings.

      On a note about my "dream/encounter" experience which I related in answer to your
      inquiry, this was not a "speculative analysis" of recovered memories or such.  The
      conceptualization of "what the *bleep* is going on" regarding the "aliens" came to
      me in a blinding "revelation", you might say.  It was as if the "veil had been
      opened" and I finally understood a FANTASTIC new reality.  This ALL occurred in a flash of what felt like "brilliant psychic awareness"I was TOTALLY raised to a new "level" of consciousness.  This was BOTH uplifting AND depressing.  It was uplifting because it was like I discovered the "Secret of the Ages";  It was depressing because the "Secret" ITSELF was so... "negative", as most people would understand it.

      Exactly the point I was making about new awareness AFTER hypnosis when the person is able to remember what happened to themselves.  They have a new "level" of consiousness.  I would say in most cases they were uplifted and relieved.  You did not say however, what the SECRET was.  Can you enlarge upon that aspect?

      It took me several months to come to terms with it but when I did, I felt TOTALLY
      FREE!  I don't know how else to describe the way I feel about this.  It was a
      sense that even though I "discovered" the "ugly truth" about our situation, this
      was SOOOO HUGE and ALL INCLUSIVE that it dwarfed ALL emotion.  It was WHO WE ARE, WHO WE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN.  I faced the most AWE-FUL thing imaginable and instead of trying to deny it, I accepted it (*LOVED IT*) in all of its magnificent HORROR! I "took the Red Pill" and was FREE!  I really don't know how to describe this anymore than I have presented here.

      Again the way experiencers feel after they recall what happened to themselves - they feel free.

      I study a lot of near death experiences and what the person is told in those cases.  The feeling they have afterwards is very close to what an abductee feels after he is "enlightened" about what has happened to himself -  euphoric.

      Thank you for writing!

      Leneesa

    • DRxDON
      ... Laneesa, If you read several of my other posts to this list, you will get an idea of the Secret . It is NOT a pretty picture . That is why I was talking
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 31 10:58 PM
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        Ufocci@... wrote:

        >> On a note about my "dream/encounter" experience which I related in answer to your
        >> inquiry, this was not a "speculative analysis" of recovered memories or such. The
        >> conceptualization of "what the *bleep* is going on" regarding the "aliens" came to
        >> me in a blinding "revelation", you might say. It was as if the "veil had been
        >> opened" and I finally understood a FANTASTIC new reality. This ALL occurred in a
        >> flash of what felt like "brilliant psychic awareness". I was TOTALLY raised to a
        >> new "level" of consciousness. This was BOTH uplifting AND depressing. It was
        >> uplifting because it was like I discovered the "Secret of the Ages"; It was
        >> depressing because the "Secret" ITSELF was so... "negative", as most people would
        >> understand it.
        >
        > Exactly the point I was making about new awareness AFTER hypnosis when the person is
        > able to remember what happened to themselves. They have a new "level" of consiousness.
        > I would say in most cases they were uplifted and relieved. You did not say however,
        > what the SECRET was. Can you enlarge upon that aspect?

        Laneesa,

        If you read several of my other posts to this list, you will get an idea of the "Secret".
        It is NOT a "pretty picture". That is why I was talking about the seeming incongruity
        of my feelings. The "aliens" are not "benevolent" and they are not actually what
        we would call "aliens" either, though in a sense they are. If you are familiar with
        the story told by Dan Burisch, then that is a good chunk of it but not all. If you
        are familiar with the movie "The Matrix", then THAT is a PERFECT *metaphor* for what
        I felt like I "discovered". WE are *partly* genetic decendants of their race which
        occupied Earth in what we would view as pre-stone-age. They occupied Earth at the same
        "time" as the early hominids. There are no fossil remains because they "slipped out
        of our timeline" due to a disastrous genetic experiment which they performed upon
        themselves. You can say that they "no longer" exist in our "past", however, they
        ARE our future race, at least its most probable one at "this time". They are also
        from other worlds as future versions of ourselves who have gone on to colonize
        other planets.

        Dan Burisch's "J-Rod"(Grey) told him that their degeneration is a peripheral neuropathy
        due to exposure to radiation from future space environments. He(the J-rod) was also
        a bit vague about some coming "catastrophe" being the cause of this degeneration or
        the reason why they/us "will have" migrated in the first place. This is false or at
        least VERY misleading information, IMO. The degeneration of the J-rod is the result
        of their *original* genetic experiment which "took them out of our past". The technology
        to do this again is now available to us! Dr. Dan doesn't talk much about the more
        OBVIOUS ramifications of this, probably because of his orders, but this degeneration is
        also what we will become if we keep ABusing technology to "conquer Nature". The J-rod
        told Dan that they are here to prevent "the catastophe"; that they can reverse their
        original genetic mistake and bring them "back" from their "past". However, I can see
        clearly that they HAVE been here, advancing our Western Civilization towards the ends of
        technological "supremacy over Nature". They are here, in other words, to make sure that
        we take that route and BECOME THEM! WE are trapped in a time loop, which is more like
        a "time spiral", a DOWNWARD SPIRAL away from Nature and away from the *Vital Force*.
        If there is a repeating cycle of "catastrophes", it is most likely due to THEM believing
        that "if ONLY they could try it again....".

        I really can't put the full comprehension of this into words because it doesn't make
        "common sense", though I honestly DO understand the TOTALITY of this in a manner that
        is beyond words.

        These following two posts explain this a bit more.

        ........................................................................................
        Os Wilkes wrote:

        > While some use the argument that because we are still seemingly free on
        > earth to do our thing that the aliens are benign (the argument Greer
        > makes), they are missing the point that people have been systematically
        > taken against their will. So while the main group survives, a certain
        > number of them suffer.
        >
        > This seems to me more like a "parasite/host" relationship, in the manner
        > of viruses such as herpes which do not kill the host but provide a warm
        > home for decades while they replicate.
        >
        > Or a "farmer/cattle" relationship.
        >
        > Or a vampyre type thing.
        >
        > You do not destroy your survival resources if you are a successful organism.
        >
        > I think when humans do discover the truth, it will be the realization
        > that our Karma is to be exploited as a race, as we have exploited the
        > other races and life forms here on Earth. Nobody would like to hear
        > that, but it is my current mode of thought on the subject.
        >
        > I can change my mind...
        >
        > Has this been helpful at all?
        >
        > Warmly,
        >
        > Os


        Os(Lam),

        This is my *current* mode of thought on the subject too. All of my analyses
        of the abduction reports, as well as study of esoteric/occult subjects point
        me in this direction. The "aliens" usually chastise humans for not respecting
        the planet and destroying its ecology, but most of the time show little or
        no concern for the abductees as individuals. They are obviously concerned
        about the condition of their "garden" but not specifically about their "plants"
        or "livestock". Ironically( or not...), it seems that it has been the actions
        of these beings from behind the scenes throughout history which has lead to
        the current state of affairs concerning our "rash behavior" and mismanagement
        of the ecolology. I would venture to say that this type of *seeming*
        incongruity in their behavior is just more psy-ops on their part, to confuse
        us more and lay a "guilt trip" on us.

        We attract the character of our "diners" according the way in which we treat
        our own food. This is why indigeonous people such as Native Americans performed
        rituals to appease the spirit of the beast for providing them with food and
        clothing. It is also why vegetarianism has been proposed as the most
        "spiritual" form of consumption. Of course, *intent* and *feeling* towards
        one's food is paramount. A mechanized hydroponic vegetarian processing
        plant is not much better in the "Higher Levels" than a slaughterhouse.

        Conscious existence in the *Manifest* world presuposes being a part of a
        *neverending* *recycling* CONSCIOUS "food chain", which extends from the
        smallest particle outward to the most vast ethereal gestalts of consciousness
        well beyond our comprehension.

        Don



        ....................................................................................................
        dexxxaa wrote:
        >
        > They were actually responsible for CREATING TIME ITSELF!
        > We existed within their little "time trap", and always have as long
        > as we have been here
        > as physical bodies on this "earth". I wrote down the
        > phrase, "Sentinels of Time" in
        > my dream journal when I awoke.
        > ************
        > A thing I believe I've learned from them is they are also the
        > bailiffs that hold the key's to your cell door. Eventually, they
        > decide when to release us. All in accordance to the dictates of
        > these lower levels.
        > Dex
        >


        Dex,

        I agree, from my speculations and yes, from my "intuitions" and "revelations" as
        well, they are our "bailiffs" too. As for things being all in accordance to the
        "dictates" of these "lower levels", I believe that the "time" has come to release
        ourSELVES from "DICTATORS". This is a "game" that our souls agreed to play MANY
        "Ages" ago. Most have LONG forgotten that it IS a game and that they WILLINGLY
        *agreed* to any *DICTATES*. Such *dictates* are NULL AND VOID as soon as one
        ***AWAKENS*** and realizes such. It's as "simple" as THAT! Bailiffs??? We don't
        need no stinkin bailiffs! ;-)

        Where all the cloak and dagger subterfuge stuff comes in is that "they" know that
        they will loose their "power" and thus even their "future existence" if WE learn
        this TRUTH. These beings will therefore do everything they can to keep us in
        darkness about the true nature of our SPIRIT. This also bodes well for the human
        "powers that be". Human society is based upon a class/caste system where survival
        depends upon "working for the MAN". If the "common man/woman" were to become aware
        of their ultimate spiritual freedom and the *limitless* BOUNTY that such would bring,
        the "Big Shots" running things in this world would soon lose all power. It is thus
        in their best interest to work in tandem with the "Sentinels/Bailiffs".

        They maintain our "Souls" in stasis for two purposes. One is to keep themselves
        "viable", since their "Grand Experiment" cut their own souls from the "Source of Life"
        ITSELF and resulted in this "bubble" of probabilities. One could say that this entire
        viewable physical universe is within the event horizon of a black hole which originated
        from their "experiment". There is ample scientific evidence from credible physicists
        to support the theory that the universe is within a black hole.

        By maintaining our Souls in stasis, they can also use "fragments" of our Souls to
        "manufacture time", by having each Soul express an "aspect" of ItSelf within a
        directed timeline through a multiplicity of "reincarnational lives". Think of
        reincarnational lives as analagous to multiple personalities in Multiple Personality
        Dissociative Disorder. In MPDD, many "personalities" must "share" a single body but
        since the Soul exists outside of time and space, each reincarnational self can
        have a "separate" body with a single "identity". The process for fracturing the
        Original Identity is the same in both cases, though; INTENSE TRAUMA "inflicted"
        upon the fledgling "personal identity" in the case of MPDD and the same "inflicted"
        upon the "Soul" in the case of creating "time" and "reincarnational lives". Now,
        just what kind of "intense trauma" do you think could be inflicted upon our souls,
        hhmmm? That's a WHOLE deeper story that I won't go into now. ;-)

        Remember, this "trauma" did not happen in some "past", at least not in *A* "past" that
        is within our time structure. This is a trauma that is OMNIPRESENT RIGHT NOW,
        that lies behind ALL of our experiences and drives and desires and gives us that
        sensation of the "arrow of time". We are FLEEING in BLIND DESPERATION from this
        trauma, going who-knows-where. Sure, we may create many wonderful things and have
        many wonderful experiences, as well as some not so wonderful ones, during each
        "incarnation". However, in the "end" of each "life" all of this comes to naught.
        NOTHING is retained by the soul. Of course, in the "Grand Scheme" of "All-That-Is",
        IT is learning. And there may even be some sort of "Oversoul" beyond the "Soul",
        which is "gaining experience" from this "pit of the lower realms". However, the
        idea that reincarnation is a progressive "learning experience" for the "Soul" is
        just a fabrication of the New Age movement to appease people's spiritual anxiety
        and to give some sense of "Greater Meaning" to one's life. All of the ancient
        teachings, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc., saw reincarnation for what it is, a
        TRAP!

        The "Soul" NEVER "learns" enough to leave this "place" to go on to "Higher Levels"
        UNLESS it reaches the state of "Enlightenment" *during* an individual physical
        incarnation. The "Oversoul" may get tired of playing the game and "separate" from
        the "Soul" but the "Soul" goes nowhere and "gains" nothing. One other "way out"
        for the Soul is after death as described in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It says
        that the "Light", which seems so inviting as described in NDEs, is in actuality a
        "soul trap". One must ignore this Light and wait till one see's the color of one's
        "True Light" and enter there. There are elaborite instructions on how to recognize
        this "True Light".

        Don

        P.S. Even though I say all of this as if it were FACT, as always, it comes from
        my "intuitive speculative analysis" along with what sometimes almost seems like
        "revelatory" info. Therefore, as I have said before, I do NOT "believe" this
        but DO lend it a GREAT deal of "probable varacity" *at this time*. Things could
        change! :-)



        --
        What If --------------------------?
        DRxDON
      • Ufocci@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/31/04 11:45:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... So your flash of intuition was that we are put here by them, made by them and controlled by
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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          In a message dated 8/31/04 11:45:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drxdon@... writes:

          If you read several of my other posts to this list, you will get an idea of the "Secret".
          It is NOT a "pretty picture".  That is why I was talking about the seeming incongruity
          of my feelings.  The "aliens" are not "benevolent" and they are not actually what
          we would call "aliens" either, though in a sense they are.  If you are familiar with
          the story told by Dan Burisch, then that is a good chunk of it but not all.  If you
          are familiar with the movie "The Matrix", then THAT is a PERFECT *metaphor* for what
          I felt like I "discovered".  WE are *partly* genetic decendants of their race which
          occupied Earth in what we would view as pre-stone-age.  They occupied Earth at the same
          "time" as the early hominids.  There are no fossil remains because they "slipped out
          of our timeline"
          J-Rod said there was a split in the time line - this caused them to start deteriorating due to a disastrous genetic experiment which they performed upon themselves. I do not recall him saying they performed an experiment on themselves. You can say that they "no longer" exist in our "past", however, they
          ARE our future race, at least its most probable one at "this time".  They are also
          from other worlds as future versions of ourselves who have gone on to colonize
          other planets. 
          From what I understand they came back to "fix" what happened so it wouldn't happen to us.  Of course, it already happened to them and if they are our future then that is ambiguous!

          Dan Burisch's "J-Rod"(Grey) told him that their degeneration is a peripheral neuropathy
          due to exposure to radiation from future space environments.
          Again I understood it was the split in the time line. (whatever that means!) He(the J-rod) was also
          a bit vague about some coming "catastrophe" being the cause of this degeneration or
          the reason why they/us "will have" migrated in the first place.  This is false or at
          least VERY misleading information, IMO.  The degeneration of the J-rod is the result
          of their *original* genetic experiment which "took them out of our past".  The technology
          to do this again is now available to us!  Dr. Dan doesn't talk much about the more
          OBVIOUS ramifications of this, probably because of his orders, but this degeneration is
          also what we will become if we keep ABusing technology to "conquer Nature".  The J-rod
          told Dan that they are here to prevent "the catastophe"; that they can reverse their
          original genetic mistake and bring them "back" from their "past".  However, I can see
          clearly that they HAVE been here, advancing our Western Civilization towards the ends of
          technological "supremacy over Nature".  They are here, in other words, to make sure that
          we take that route and BECOME THEM!
          Again I thought they were trying to prevent us from becoming what they are now. WE are trapped in a time loop, which is more like
          a "time spiral", a DOWNWARD SPIRAL away from Nature and away from the *Vital Force*.
          If there is a repeating cycle of "catastrophes", it is most likely due to THEM believing
          that "if ONLY they could try it again....".
           
          I really can't put the full comprehension of this into words because it doesn't make
          "common sense", though I honestly DO understand the TOTALITY of this in a manner that
          is beyond words.


            So your flash of intuition was that we are put here by them, made by them and controlled by them - is that correct?  I feel we were put here long ago by aliens and they have watched over their "experiment" ever since, like parents do over their babies.  I believe that they have tried this before and those civilizations have gone down because they didn't work out the way they wanted.  Observing our present day evil in the world I would not be surprised if something happened where they would have to start over again (if they are so inclined) with a new experiment.

          Leneesa





        • DRxDON
          ... Leneesa, It is not NEARLY as simplistic as you put it in your first sentence. We ARE *THEM*, would be closer to it. I am speaking about *most* of the
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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            Ufocci@... wrote:

            > So your flash of intuition was that we are put here by them, made by them and
            > controlled by them - is that correct? I feel we were put here long ago by aliens
            > and they have watched over their "experiment" ever since, like parents do over
            > their babies. I believe that they have tried this before and those civilizations
            > have gone down because they didn't work out the way they wanted. Observing our
            > present day evil in the world I would not be surprised if something happened where
            > they would have to start over again (if they are so inclined) with a new
            > experiment.


            Leneesa,

            It is not NEARLY as "simplistic" as you put it in your first sentence. We ARE *THEM*,
            would be closer to it. I am speaking about *most* of the so-called Greys and abductions.
            There are most probably many others but these, I feel, are more like observers or perhaps
            wannabe "consumers", waiting for a "piece of the action". Many of these are further
            "down" on the "spiral" and may actually be "running things" at the "lower" spiritual levels.
            "Lower", in these terms, doesn't necessarily mean "less advanced" or "less powerful", but
            further removed from the ***SOURCE***.

            This is just my "inspired speculation" which has developed AFTER the FACT of my "revelatory"
            experience. That experience ended with the sense that the Greys are our "gatekeepers" or
            "sentinels", as I first wrote down the concept. Anything about other "aliens" is just
            speculation based upon this experience and other studies of esoteric/occult matters, and of
            course, UFO/alien reports. Since I never had an encounter which I would call completely
            "benevolent", and find few such experiences in the reported contacts, I sense that *truly*
            benevolent beings are not "available" to us at this "time". Perhaps they are available to
            a select few people, but I have my doubts. At this time I sense that the crop circles are
            our only contact with beings of a highly *spritually* "advanced" nature. I feel that the
            "creator gods" came "before" this "current" situation with the Greys. As I said, I feel
            that the "Greys" are "US", stuck within this time trap.

            There is the "single electron theory" of physics that very "simplisticly" states that there
            exists only ONE single electron. However, this single electron is scattered in space and
            time at infinitely fast speeds so as to appear as *many* electrons and other particles.
            Perhaps, at the most fundamental level, it is the same with all "aliens" as well. They
            may STILL even be "variations" of US, "scattered" throughout space and time.

            Don

            --
            What If --------------------------?
            DRxDON
          • Ufocci@aol.com
            In a message dated 9/1/04 2:36:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... That is an interesting concept. Have you read Delores Cannon s book The Custodians Beyond
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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              In a message dated 9/1/04 2:36:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, drxdon@... writes:

                 
              There is the "single electron theory" of physics that very "simplistically" states that there
              exists only ONE single electron.  However, this single electron is scattered in space and
              time at infinitely fast speeds so as to appear as *many* electrons and other particles.
              Perhaps, at the most fundamental level, it is the same with all "aliens" as well.  They
              may STILL even be "variations" of US, "scattered" throughout space and time.

              Don


              That is an interesting concept.  Have you read Delores Cannon's book The Custodians "Beyond Abduction"?  She had a thought implanted into her consciousness that explained to her what the Grays were here for and were doing.  She never had this happen again so she felt it was a true message.  She was working with abductees at the time doing hypnosis.  I would like to type this off for all of you to think about.  I found it refreshing to my thought processes.

              THE CONCEPT

              It came to me that the manipulation of genes was for our protection, the preservation of our species, for the guarantee of our survival.  Looking at it in this way it is an act of great kindness, and demonstrates an immense devotion to our care.  In the Nostradamus books it is stressed that there is a very real possibility our way of life will be destroyed.  It was foreseen that there is a possibility of the Earth tilting on its axis.  During such a catastrophe there would be death resulting from many causes: flood, earthquake, volcanic eruption, massive tidal waves, every type of disaster known and unknown to man.  Afterwards there would be death resulting from disease and starvation.  Anyone who survived would have to be extremely hardy.  I have complete faith in the human race.  I believe we have the capability to survive.  I believe, as Nostradamus does, that his would not be the end of the world, but the end of "our" world as we know it.  It would be a complete changing of our way of life, but man has the wonderful perseverance to regain what he perceives to be important to that way of life.

              This is something I do not like to think about and do not want to consider possible, but many experts have agreed that the possibility exists.  Maybe the aliens are merely looking ahead and trying to anticipate every possibility.  They do not want to be caught off guard again.  By gene manipulation and engineering they may be, not only creating a human that can function in a contaminated environment with a body that can resist cancer and other diseases caused by these changes, but will also be able to adjust to a new life style filled with enormous stress.  One of the subjects in this book saw herself amid a scene of sick and dying people trying to help in any small way.  She herself was not sick, and was incapable of becoming ill.  Her job was to help the others.  Maybe she is one of the new breed that has been designed for this purpose, to withstand the ravages of the Earth shift and the major crises that could follow.

              The theory I have developed from the information I have received is that they are extremely interested in our welfare as a species, because they have been our caretakers for eons.  They are not about to give up on us now.  Some humans are being prepared for survival on another planet that is being prepared for and to be populate by disease-free individuals.  It is designed to be familiar so there will be no shock as the people begin a new way of life, or continuation of the old ways, in a new and pristine environment.  Others could also be being prepared for survival on "this" planet Earth after catastrophic changes render most humans incapable of function.  I believe that in the future when we are able to see all the different facets of this phenomenon, we will realize the beings should not be feared, but welcomed as our ancestors, our brothers, our custodians.  Their purpose in the grand plan will at last be understood and become crystal clear to mankind.

                                                                    * * *
            • vgambino1@cox.net
              From: DRxDON Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment Hi Don I do
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
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                From: DRxDON <drxdon@...>
                Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT
                To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment

                Hi Don
                I do not know if you have read my essay posted on Keith’s web site
                but I recommend you do. I speak directly to this and in fact believe
                much of your statements are a direct reflection of my thoughts on
                this. I at first believed this was a new concept and arrived at
                independently by myself.
                I now see that great minds think alike.
                LOL


                This is a small sampling and the beginning of my argument about
                aliens. Enjoy.

                Excerpt from “Are Aliens Us” By Vern Gambino

                My own belief is that they might be from our future. Consider what
                you would be willing to do to insure your survival.

                The idea of our descendants returning to retrieve materials and the
                genetic code of their ancestors is intriguing to me. It explains a great
                deal if viewed from outside or if you are convinced that we will be the
                cause of our own downfall.

                The aspect of historical visitations and the admitted influence of
                these in the religious context lends itself to this idea as well.

                It leads me to ask the following: What if a future society was
                desperate to survive their impending demise from an undetermined
                cause? Might they be willing to meddle with their past in a last ditch
                attempt to avoid the inevitable end?

                Something happens or we manipulated ourselves to such a state,
                sexual reproduction is no longer possible. The world is denuded of all
                life. The resources are depleted so much that we no longer have the
                ability to sustain ourselves.
                At some point the inevitable end was realized and someone came up
                with the idea of preventing this tragedy from occurring by returning
                to the past and trying to change history so that the end we face in
                this proposed future could be avoided.

                This premise is based on the reported evidence that sampling of
                genetic material is the predominant experience of current abductees.
                The historical record speaks of an attempt to teach and direct us.
                Their influence in our past did not solve their problem. The end was
                not avoided. The attempt to change the past was abandoned or at
                least altered. Instead the retrieval of organic material and genetic
                samples was substituted for the original plan of altering history.

                My theory of time traveling descendants can be supported by these
                things and accounts for many of the anomalous aspects of alien
                visitation.

                The argument for ETs as aliens is good but contains a number of
                flaws.

                If aliens are using our genetic material to alter their makeup and
                prepare the world for invasion or cohabitation my first thoughts are
                proved and all genetic material is the same throughout the universe.
                Aliens from a different world would not be able to combine our genes
                with their own and hybrids would not be viable unless genes are
                universal in nature.

                If they are our descendants then the genetic manipulation and the
                harvesting of human biological material takes on a more
                understandable and scientifically believable scenario within the
                context of our current knowledge base.

                Livestock mutilations fits this theory. If we have denuded the earth
                sufficiently. The extraction of blood and sexual organs from cattle,
                and the mutilations of other livestock fits nicely with this idea.
                Trying to sustain their lives by genetic cloning of food stocks they
                would need the organs removed in these unexplained mutilations.

                Returning to the supposition that an attempt to manipulate our past
                was attempted we have to take into account that it was only
                in the ancient past that we were directed in our social and religious
                tenants. The visitations and appearance of angels and even the
                birth of Christ can be Integrated into this theory.

                If God was able to produce these miracles and direct our faith to
                such a degree in our primitive past, why has he not provided us with a
                continuing direction and intervention on behalf of our salvation? Why
                has Christ and the angels stopped guiding us and visiting us? Why
                have we been left to our own devices?

                ***************End*************
              • DRxDON
                Hi Vern, Yes, I guess great minds DO think alike ! :-) LOL I think you should read all of the Dan Burisch material. I believe that you ll find it MORE than
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 1, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Vern,

                  Yes, I guess "great minds DO think alike"! :-) LOL

                  I think you should read all of the Dan Burisch material.
                  I believe that you'll find it MORE than interesting.

                  http://www.stealthskater.com/Burisch.htm

                  Don

                  vgambino1@... wrote:
                  >
                  > From: DRxDON <drxdon@...>
                  > Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT
                  > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment
                  >
                  > Hi Don
                  > I do not know if you have read my essay posted on Keith’s web site
                  > but I recommend you do. I speak directly to this and in fact believe
                  > much of your statements are a direct reflection of my thoughts on
                  > this. I at first believed this was a new concept and arrived at
                  > independently by myself.
                  > I now see that great minds think alike.
                  > LOL
                  >
                  > This is a small sampling and the beginning of my argument about
                  > aliens. Enjoy.
                  >
                  > Excerpt from “Are Aliens Us” By Vern Gambino
                  >
                  > My own belief is that they might be from our future. Consider what
                  > you would be willing to do to insure your survival.
                  >
                  > The idea of our descendants returning to retrieve materials and the
                  > genetic code of their ancestors is intriguing to me. It explains a great
                  > deal if viewed from outside or if you are convinced that we will be the
                  > cause of our own downfall.
                  >
                  > The aspect of historical visitations and the admitted influence of
                  > these in the religious context lends itself to this idea as well.
                  >
                  > It leads me to ask the following: What if a future society was
                  > desperate to survive their impending demise from an undetermined
                  > cause? Might they be willing to meddle with their past in a last ditch
                  > attempt to avoid the inevitable end?
                  >
                  > Something happens or we manipulated ourselves to such a state,
                  > sexual reproduction is no longer possible. The world is denuded of all
                  > life. The resources are depleted so much that we no longer have the
                  > ability to sustain ourselves.
                  > At some point the inevitable end was realized and someone came up
                  > with the idea of preventing this tragedy from occurring by returning
                  > to the past and trying to change history so that the end we face in
                  > this proposed future could be avoided.
                  >
                  > This premise is based on the reported evidence that sampling of
                  > genetic material is the predominant experience of current abductees.
                  > The historical record speaks of an attempt to teach and direct us.
                  > Their influence in our past did not solve their problem. The end was
                  > not avoided. The attempt to change the past was abandoned or at
                  > least altered. Instead the retrieval of organic material and genetic
                  > samples was substituted for the original plan of altering history.
                  >
                  > My theory of time traveling descendants can be supported by these
                  > things and accounts for many of the anomalous aspects of alien
                  > visitation.
                  >
                  > The argument for ETs as aliens is good but contains a number of
                  > flaws.
                  >
                  > If aliens are using our genetic material to alter their makeup and
                  > prepare the world for invasion or cohabitation my first thoughts are
                  > proved and all genetic material is the same throughout the universe.
                  > Aliens from a different world would not be able to combine our genes
                  > with their own and hybrids would not be viable unless genes are
                  > universal in nature.
                  >
                  > If they are our descendants then the genetic manipulation and the
                  > harvesting of human biological material takes on a more
                  > understandable and scientifically believable scenario within the
                  > context of our current knowledge base.
                  >
                  > Livestock mutilations fits this theory. If we have denuded the earth
                  > sufficiently. The extraction of blood and sexual organs from cattle,
                  > and the mutilations of other livestock fits nicely with this idea.
                  > Trying to sustain their lives by genetic cloning of food stocks they
                  > would need the organs removed in these unexplained mutilations.
                  >
                  > Returning to the supposition that an attempt to manipulate our past
                  > was attempted we have to take into account that it was only
                  > in the ancient past that we were directed in our social and religious
                  > tenants. The visitations and appearance of angels and even the
                  > birth of Christ can be Integrated into this theory.
                  >
                  > If God was able to produce these miracles and direct our faith to
                  > such a degree in our primitive past, why has he not provided us with a
                  > continuing direction and intervention on behalf of our salvation? Why
                  > has Christ and the angels stopped guiding us and visiting us? Why
                  > have we been left to our own devices?
                  >
                  > ***************End*************
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > [click here]
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufodiscussion/
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > ufodiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                  --
                  What If --------------------------?
                  DRxDON
                • Jahnets
                  I agree with Lenessa, Don. It is just that simple to my way of thinking or as difficult as you want to make it...I feel like they are family, but then there is
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 2, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I agree with Lenessa, Don. It is just that simple to my way of thinking or
                    as difficult as you want to make it...I feel like they are family, but then
                    there is that old saying,"Home is where the heart is".



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:33 PM
                    To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment




                    Ufocci@... wrote:

                    > So your flash of intuition was that we are put here by them, made by them
                    and
                    > controlled by them - is that correct? I feel we were put here long ago by
                    aliens
                    > and they have watched over their "experiment" ever since, like parents do
                    over
                    > their babies. I believe that they have tried this before and those
                    civilizations
                    > have gone down because they didn't work out the way they wanted.
                    Observing our
                    > present day evil in the world I would not be surprised if something
                    happened where
                    > they would have to start over again (if they are so inclined) with a new
                    > experiment.


                    Leneesa,

                    It is not NEARLY as "simplistic" as you put it in your first sentence. We
                    ARE *THEM*,
                    would be closer to it. I am speaking about *most* of the so-called Greys
                    and abductions.
                    There are most probably many others but these, I feel, are more like
                    observers or perhaps
                    wannabe "consumers", waiting for a "piece of the action". Many of these are
                    further
                    "down" on the "spiral" and may actually be "running things" at the "lower"
                    spiritual levels.
                    "Lower", in these terms, doesn't necessarily mean "less advanced" or "less
                    powerful", but
                    further removed from the ***SOURCE***.

                    This is just my "inspired speculation" which has developed AFTER the FACT of
                    my "revelatory"
                    experience. That experience ended with the sense that the Greys are our
                    "gatekeepers" or
                    "sentinels", as I first wrote down the concept. Anything about other
                    "aliens" is just
                    speculation based upon this experience and other studies of esoteric/occult
                    matters, and of
                    course, UFO/alien reports. Since I never had an encounter which I would
                    call completely
                    "benevolent", and find few such experiences in the reported contacts, I
                    sense that *truly*
                    benevolent beings are not "available" to us at this "time". Perhaps they
                    are available to
                    a select few people, but I have my doubts. At this time I sense that the
                    crop circles are
                    our only contact with beings of a highly *spritually* "advanced" nature. I
                    feel that the
                    "creator gods" came "before" this "current" situation with the Greys. As I
                    said, I feel
                    that the "Greys" are "US", stuck within this time trap.

                    There is the "single electron theory" of physics that very "simplisticly"
                    states that there
                    exists only ONE single electron. However, this single electron is scattered
                    in space and
                    time at infinitely fast speeds so as to appear as *many* electrons and other
                    particles.
                    Perhaps, at the most fundamental level, it is the same with all "aliens" as
                    well. They
                    may STILL even be "variations" of US, "scattered" throughout space and time.

                    Don

                    --
                    What If --------------------------?
                    DRxDON




                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Jahnets
                    I have a thought I ve been tossing around with myself that they are us only without a body. Like the spirit part of us. ... From: vgambino1@cox.net
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 2, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I have a thought I've been tossing around with myself that they are us only
                      without a body. Like the spirit part of us.



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: vgambino1@... [mailto:vgambino1@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 4:17 PM
                      To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment


                      From: DRxDON <drxdon@...>
                      Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT
                      To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment

                      Hi Don
                      I do not know if you have read my essay posted on Keith’s web site
                      but I recommend you do. I speak directly to this and in fact believe
                      much of your statements are a direct reflection of my thoughts on
                      this. I at first believed this was a new concept and arrived at
                      independently by myself.
                      I now see that great minds think alike.
                      LOL


                      This is a small sampling and the beginning of my argument about
                      aliens. Enjoy.

                      Excerpt from “Are Aliens Us” By Vern Gambino

                      My own belief is that they might be from our future. Consider what
                      you would be willing to do to insure your survival.

                      The idea of our descendants returning to retrieve materials and the
                      genetic code of their ancestors is intriguing to me. It explains a great
                      deal if viewed from outside or if you are convinced that we will be the
                      cause of our own downfall.

                      The aspect of historical visitations and the admitted influence of
                      these in the religious context lends itself to this idea as well.

                      It leads me to ask the following: What if a future society was
                      desperate to survive their impending demise from an undetermined
                      cause? Might they be willing to meddle with their past in a last ditch
                      attempt to avoid the inevitable end?

                      Something happens or we manipulated ourselves to such a state,
                      sexual reproduction is no longer possible. The world is denuded of all
                      life. The resources are depleted so much that we no longer have the
                      ability to sustain ourselves.
                      At some point the inevitable end was realized and someone came up
                      with the idea of preventing this tragedy from occurring by returning
                      to the past and trying to change history so that the end we face in
                      this proposed future could be avoided.

                      This premise is based on the reported evidence that sampling of
                      genetic material is the predominant experience of current abductees.
                      The historical record speaks of an attempt to teach and direct us.
                      Their influence in our past did not solve their problem. The end was
                      not avoided. The attempt to change the past was abandoned or at
                      least altered. Instead the retrieval of organic material and genetic
                      samples was substituted for the original plan of altering history.

                      My theory of time traveling descendants can be supported by these
                      things and accounts for many of the anomalous aspects of alien
                      visitation.

                      The argument for ETs as aliens is good but contains a number of
                      flaws.

                      If aliens are using our genetic material to alter their makeup and
                      prepare the world for invasion or cohabitation my first thoughts are
                      proved and all genetic material is the same throughout the universe.
                      Aliens from a different world would not be able to combine our genes
                      with their own and hybrids would not be viable unless genes are
                      universal in nature.

                      If they are our descendants then the genetic manipulation and the
                      harvesting of human biological material takes on a more
                      understandable and scientifically believable scenario within the
                      context of our current knowledge base.

                      Livestock mutilations fits this theory. If we have denuded the earth
                      sufficiently. The extraction of blood and sexual organs from cattle,
                      and the mutilations of other livestock fits nicely with this idea.
                      Trying to sustain their lives by genetic cloning of food stocks they
                      would need the organs removed in these unexplained mutilations.

                      Returning to the supposition that an attempt to manipulate our past
                      was attempted we have to take into account that it was only
                      in the ancient past that we were directed in our social and religious
                      tenants. The visitations and appearance of angels and even the
                      birth of Christ can be Integrated into this theory.

                      If God was able to produce these miracles and direct our faith to
                      such a degree in our primitive past, why has he not provided us with a
                      continuing direction and intervention on behalf of our salvation? Why
                      has Christ and the angels stopped guiding us and visiting us? Why
                      have we been left to our own devices?

                      ***************End*************





                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • woodgnome47
                      Hi Jahnets I do not think I have had the pleasure of speaking with you. Thank you for your comments. Are you ascribing this to the aliens them selves and how
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 2, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Jahnets
                        I do not think I have had the pleasure of speaking with you. Thank you for your
                        comments.

                        Are you ascribing this to the aliens them selves and how they interact with us? If
                        this is so I say yes you may have a point here. In that many angels spirits and
                        entities appear to be projections or not wholly comprised of the mater of this
                        world.
                        Many things such as Mosses' burning bush that did not consume itself and the
                        appearance of angles to key figures like Mary and Joseph revealing the impending
                        birth of Jesus. these are in the written record and support your thoughts.
                        Please try to clarify your comments a little for me so I can direct my answers
                        appropriately
                        Thanks again
                        Vern



                        --- In ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "Jahnets" <Jahnets@c...> wrote:
                        > I have a thought I've been tossing around with myself that they are us only
                        > without a body. Like the spirit part of us.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: vgambino1@c... [mailto:vgambino1@c...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 4:17 PM
                        > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment
                        >
                        >
                        > From: DRxDON <drxdon@c...>
                        > Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT
                        > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment
                        >
                        > Hi Don
                        > I do not know if you have read my essay posted on Keith's web site
                        > but I recommend you do. I speak directly to this and in fact believe
                        > much of your statements are a direct reflection of my thoughts on
                        > this. I at first believed this was a new concept and arrived at
                        > independently by myself.
                        > I now see that great minds think alike.
                        > LOL
                        >
                        >
                        > This is a small sampling and the beginning of my argument about
                        > aliens. Enjoy.
                        >
                        > Excerpt from "Are Aliens Us" By Vern Gambino
                        >
                        > My own belief is that they might be from our future. Consider what
                        > you would be willing to do to insure your survival.
                        >
                        > The idea of our descendants returning to retrieve materials and the
                        > genetic code of their ancestors is intriguing to me. It explains a great
                        > deal if viewed from outside or if you are convinced that we will be the
                        > cause of our own downfall.
                        >
                        > The aspect of historical visitations and the admitted influence of
                        > these in the religious context lends itself to this idea as well.
                        >
                        > It leads me to ask the following: What if a future society was
                        > desperate to survive their impending demise from an undetermined
                        > cause? Might they be willing to meddle with their past in a last ditch
                        > attempt to avoid the inevitable end?
                        >
                        > Something happens or we manipulated ourselves to such a state,
                        > sexual reproduction is no longer possible. The world is denuded of all
                        > life. The resources are depleted so much that we no longer have the
                        > ability to sustain ourselves.
                        > At some point the inevitable end was realized and someone came up
                        > with the idea of preventing this tragedy from occurring by returning
                        > to the past and trying to change history so that the end we face in
                        > this proposed future could be avoided.
                        >
                        > This premise is based on the reported evidence that sampling of
                        > genetic material is the predominant experience of current abductees.
                        > The historical record speaks of an attempt to teach and direct us.
                        > Their influence in our past did not solve their problem. The end was
                        > not avoided. The attempt to change the past was abandoned or at
                        > least altered. Instead the retrieval of organic material and genetic
                        > samples was substituted for the original plan of altering history.
                        >
                        > My theory of time traveling descendants can be supported by these
                        > things and accounts for many of the anomalous aspects of alien
                        > visitation.
                        >
                        > The argument for ETs as aliens is good but contains a number of
                        > flaws.
                        >
                        > If aliens are using our genetic material to alter their makeup and
                        > prepare the world for invasion or cohabitation my first thoughts are
                        > proved and all genetic material is the same throughout the universe.
                        > Aliens from a different world would not be able to combine our genes
                        > with their own and hybrids would not be viable unless genes are
                        > universal in nature.
                        >
                        > If they are our descendants then the genetic manipulation and the
                        > harvesting of human biological material takes on a more
                        > understandable and scientifically believable scenario within the
                        > context of our current knowledge base.
                        >
                        > Livestock mutilations fits this theory. If we have denuded the earth
                        > sufficiently. The extraction of blood and sexual organs from cattle,
                        > and the mutilations of other livestock fits nicely with this idea.
                        > Trying to sustain their lives by genetic cloning of food stocks they
                        > would need the organs removed in these unexplained mutilations.
                        >
                        > Returning to the supposition that an attempt to manipulate our past
                        > was attempted we have to take into account that it was only
                        > in the ancient past that we were directed in our social and religious
                        > tenants. The visitations and appearance of angels and even the
                        > birth of Christ can be Integrated into this theory.
                        >
                        > If God was able to produce these miracles and direct our faith to
                        > such a degree in our primitive past, why has he not provided us with a
                        > continuing direction and intervention on behalf of our salvation? Why
                        > has Christ and the angels stopped guiding us and visiting us? Why
                        > have we been left to our own devices?
                        >
                        > ***************End*************
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • DRxDON
                        Well, at least that s a *bit* closer to my thoughts on the subject, Janet. :-) Don ... -- What If --------------------------? DRxDON
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 2, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, at least that's a *bit* closer to my thoughts on the subject, Janet. :-)

                          Don

                          Jahnets wrote:
                          >
                          > I have a thought I've been tossing around with myself that they are us only
                          > without a body. Like the spirit part of us.
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: vgambino1@... [mailto:vgambino1@...]
                          > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 4:17 PM
                          > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment
                          >
                          > From: DRxDON <drxdon@...>
                          > Date: 2004/09/01 Wed PM 05:33:18 EDT
                          > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Enlightenment
                          >
                          > Hi Don
                          > I do not know if you have read my essay posted on Keith’s web site
                          > but I recommend you do. I speak directly to this and in fact believe
                          > much of your statements are a direct reflection of my thoughts on
                          > this. I at first believed this was a new concept and arrived at
                          > independently by myself.
                          > I now see that great minds think alike.
                          > LOL
                          >
                          > This is a small sampling and the beginning of my argument about
                          > aliens. Enjoy.
                          >
                          > Excerpt from “Are Aliens Us” By Vern Gambino
                          >
                          > My own belief is that they might be from our future. Consider what
                          > you would be willing to do to insure your survival.
                          >
                          > The idea of our descendants returning to retrieve materials and the
                          > genetic code of their ancestors is intriguing to me. It explains a great
                          > deal if viewed from outside or if you are convinced that we will be the
                          > cause of our own downfall.
                          >
                          > The aspect of historical visitations and the admitted influence of
                          > these in the religious context lends itself to this idea as well.
                          >
                          > It leads me to ask the following: What if a future society was
                          > desperate to survive their impending demise from an undetermined
                          > cause? Might they be willing to meddle with their past in a last ditch
                          > attempt to avoid the inevitable end?
                          >
                          > Something happens or we manipulated ourselves to such a state,
                          > sexual reproduction is no longer possible. The world is denuded of all
                          > life. The resources are depleted so much that we no longer have the
                          > ability to sustain ourselves.
                          > At some point the inevitable end was realized and someone came up
                          > with the idea of preventing this tragedy from occurring by returning
                          > to the past and trying to change history so that the end we face in
                          > this proposed future could be avoided.
                          >
                          > This premise is based on the reported evidence that sampling of
                          > genetic material is the predominant experience of current abductees.
                          > The historical record speaks of an attempt to teach and direct us.
                          > Their influence in our past did not solve their problem. The end was
                          > not avoided. The attempt to change the past was abandoned or at
                          > least altered. Instead the retrieval of organic material and genetic
                          > samples was substituted for the original plan of altering history.
                          >
                          > My theory of time traveling descendants can be supported by these
                          > things and accounts for many of the anomalous aspects of alien
                          > visitation.
                          >
                          > The argument for ETs as aliens is good but contains a number of
                          > flaws.
                          >
                          > If aliens are using our genetic material to alter their makeup and
                          > prepare the world for invasion or cohabitation my first thoughts are
                          > proved and all genetic material is the same throughout the universe.
                          > Aliens from a different world would not be able to combine our genes
                          > with their own and hybrids would not be viable unless genes are
                          > universal in nature.
                          >
                          > If they are our descendants then the genetic manipulation and the
                          > harvesting of human biological material takes on a more
                          > understandable and scientifically believable scenario within the
                          > context of our current knowledge base.
                          >
                          > Livestock mutilations fits this theory. If we have denuded the earth
                          > sufficiently. The extraction of blood and sexual organs from cattle,
                          > and the mutilations of other livestock fits nicely with this idea.
                          > Trying to sustain their lives by genetic cloning of food stocks they
                          > would need the organs removed in these unexplained mutilations.
                          >
                          > Returning to the supposition that an attempt to manipulate our past
                          > was attempted we have to take into account that it was only
                          > in the ancient past that we were directed in our social and religious
                          > tenants. The visitations and appearance of angels and even the
                          > birth of Christ can be Integrated into this theory.
                          >
                          > If God was able to produce these miracles and direct our faith to
                          > such a degree in our primitive past, why has he not provided us with a
                          > continuing direction and intervention on behalf of our salvation? Why
                          > has Christ and the angels stopped guiding us and visiting us? Why
                          > have we been left to our own devices?
                          >
                          > ***************End*************
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > ADVERTISEMENT
                          > [click here]
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufodiscussion/
                          >
                          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > ufodiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          --
                          What If --------------------------?
                          DRxDON
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