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RE: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions

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  • Jahnets
    Ok but you didn t answer my questions... and I have another. How do you know that they aren t physical spaces? If math will allow it, assuming the math is
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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      Ok but you didn't answer my questions... and I have another. How do you know
      that they aren't physical spaces? If math will allow it, assuming the math
      is correct, then how can you say that they aren't physical? Would a hologram
      be a two dimensional object? Height and width but no length so no depth.
      Doesn't mean it isn't physical though, you can still see it, it exists...



      -----Original Message-----
      From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of William Hamilton
      Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:58 PM
      To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions


      Jahnet,

      Scientists have lost their concept of dimensions because
      mathematics allows you to have as many as you can
      construct in higher spaces, but they are not physical spaces.
      They also speak about 1-dimensional and 2-dimensional objects,
      but no such objects exist. All objects must have 3 dimensions
      of space and 1 dimension of time.

      There may be extra dimensions of time, but not space.

      Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Jahnets" <Jahnets@...>
      To: <ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:44 PM
      Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions


      > Ok what about inner dimensions?
      >
      > Also I'm thinking another way but if we each have three dimensions, so
      > that
      > where you are standing you have height, length, and width, and so do I. It
      > could be argued that your dimensions and mine are the same, that they
      > cross
      > over each other but that cross over won't be exact and neither will anyone
      > elses.
      >
      >
      > Also isn't another dimension created by the three we have combined which
      > would be depth? I can perceive another dimension with my third eye. Maybe
      > it's like Goro lit upon, a refraction of light causing another
      > direction...a
      > doorway???lol
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of William Hamilton
      > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:43 AM
      > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions
      >
      >
      > Amazing is the word for scientists who lose their logic when
      > it comes to "extra" dimensions in string theory. There are
      > no "extra" dimensions. There is no direction that orthogonal
      > to the existing three space dimensions. It is more than
      > illogical, it is not even possible. Outside of our universe
      > though, it may be possible, but then these scientists do not
      > know how to observe houtside this universe.
      >
      > I predict string theory will hit the trash heap soon after
      > relativity theory.
      >
      > -Bill
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Light Eye" <universal_heartbeat2012@...>
      > To: <Global_Rumblings@...>; <SpeakIt@...>;
      > <ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com>; <changingplanetchat@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:01 AM
      > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions
      >
      >
      > Dear Friends,
      >
      > http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
      >
      > Love and Light.
      >
      > David
      >
      > Dark matter highlights extra dimensionsThree new 'directions' could
      > explain
      > astronomical puzzle.
      > Philip Ball
      >
      >
      >
      > In a spin: the twirling of galaxies reveals a mystery. Dark matter seems
      > to
      > be attracted to itself, and more so in smaller galaxies.
      > © NASA/JPL-Caltech/SSC Welcome to the fourth dimension. And the fifth, and
      > the sixth. A team of astrophysicists claims to have identified evidence
      > that
      > space is six-dimensional.
      >
      > Joseph Silk of the University of Oxford, UK, and his co-workers say that
      > these extra spatial dimensions can be inferred from the perplexing
      > behaviour
      > of dark matter. This mysterious stuff cannot be seen, but its presence in
      > galaxies is betrayed by the gravitational tug that it exerts on visible
      > stars.
      >
      > Silk and his colleagues looked at how dark matter behaves differently in
      > small galaxies and large clusters of galaxies. In the smaller ones, dark
      > matter seems to be attracted to itself quite strongly. But in the large
      > galactic clusters this doesn't seem to be the case: strongly interacting
      > dark matter should produce cores of dark material bigger than those that
      > are
      > actually there, as deduced from the way the cluster spins.
      >
      > One explanation, they say, is that three extra dimensions, in addition to
      > the three spatial ones to which we are accustomed, are altering the
      > effects
      > of gravity over very short distances of about a nanometre1.
      >
      > The team argues that such astronomical observations of dark matter provide
      > the first potential evidence for extra dimensions. Others are supportive,
      > but unconvinced. Lisa Randall, a Harvard physicist who has explored the
      > possibility of extra spatial dimensions, says "Even if their idea works,
      > which it probably does, it may be an overstatement to use these
      > observations
      > as evidence of extra dimensions."
      >
      > Silk himself acknowledges that the proposal is "extremely speculative".
      >
      > Too small to see
      >
      > Physicists have suspected for years that 'hidden' dimensions exist,
      > largely
      > because they seem to be predicted by string theory, the current favourite
      > for a theory of fundamental subatomic particles.
      >
      > These extra dimensions are generally thought to be tiny: many billions of
      > times smaller than atoms. This would make these dimensions very hard to
      > detect, explaining why the Universe looks as if it has just three.
      > Physicists such as Randall, however, have proposed that some extra
      > dimensions might be relatively big, but inaccessible to us.
      >
      > The extra dimensions that Silk and colleagues say they have identified are
      > likewise 'big', at about a nanometre across. In other words, they say, the
      > Universe is only about a nanometre wide in these three 'directions'.
      >
      > They argue that the force of gravity does not obey Isaac Newton's famous
      > laws over small distances, where these dimensions come into play. This has
      > never been tested experimentally: no one has measured how gravity behaves
      > over distances below about a hundredth of a millimetre.
      >
      > Dark stranger
      >
      > This variation in gravity, says Silk, could be why dark matter behaves
      > differently in different galactic environments.
      >
      > According to one interpretation of the astronomical observations, dark
      > matter, which is thought to account for 85% of all the mass in the
      > Universe
      > but not to be made from the known fundamental particles, seems to attract
      > itself through some unknown force. And this attraction seems to be
      > stronger
      > in dwarf galaxies than in galactic clusters. This is very odd: it is
      > rather
      > as if apples were to fall faster from single trees than from trees in an
      > orchard.
      >
      > But the attraction isn't due to an unknown force, argue Silk and his
      > colleagues, but to the effect of extra dimensions on gravity. And because
      > dark matter particles are accelerated to higher speeds in massive galactic
      > clusters than in dwarf galaxies, they spend less time close to each other,
      > so the effects of these extra dimensions are felt less.
      >
      > Radical answer
      >
      > There are other ways of explaining the puzzling dark-matter distributions,
      > admits Silk's colleague Ue-Li Pen of the University of Toronto in Canada.
      > For example, one could assume that the rate at which stars explode, as
      > supernovae, was quite different in the past.
      >
      > "Personally, I think changing the supernovae rate is more conservative
      > than
      > changing the number of spatial dimensions," Pen confesses. But he thinks
      > that invoking extra dimensions is such an exciting idea that it is worth
      > investigating, "even if it is a long shot".
      >
      > The most popular versions of string theory suggest that there are as many
      > as
      > eight extra dimensions, not just three. But thankfully this needn't be a
      > problem. There's no reason why, in addition to the three large extra
      > dimensions predicted by Silk and colleagues, there might not be several
      > other small ones too.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >





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    • Jahnets
      How about a rainbow??? ... From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jahnets Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 4:34
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2005
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        How about a rainbow???



        -----Original Message-----
        From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jahnets
        Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 4:34 PM
        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions


        Ok but you didn't answer my questions... and I have another. How do you know
        that they aren't physical spaces? If math will allow it, assuming the math
        is correct, then how can you say that they aren't physical? Would a hologram
        be a two dimensional object? Height and width but no length so no depth.
        Doesn't mean it isn't physical though, you can still see it, it exists...



        -----Original Message-----
        From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of William Hamilton
        Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:58 PM
        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions


        Jahnet,

        Scientists have lost their concept of dimensions because
        mathematics allows you to have as many as you can
        construct in higher spaces, but they are not physical spaces.
        They also speak about 1-dimensional and 2-dimensional objects,
        but no such objects exist. All objects must have 3 dimensions
        of space and 1 dimension of time.

        There may be extra dimensions of time, but not space.

        Bill
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jahnets" <Jahnets@...>
        To: <ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:44 PM
        Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions


        > Ok what about inner dimensions?
        >
        > Also I'm thinking another way but if we each have three dimensions, so
        > that
        > where you are standing you have height, length, and width, and so do I. It
        > could be argued that your dimensions and mine are the same, that they
        > cross
        > over each other but that cross over won't be exact and neither will anyone
        > elses.
        >
        >
        > Also isn't another dimension created by the three we have combined which
        > would be depth? I can perceive another dimension with my third eye. Maybe
        > it's like Goro lit upon, a refraction of light causing another
        > direction...a
        > doorway???lol
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of William Hamilton
        > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:43 AM
        > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions
        >
        >
        > Amazing is the word for scientists who lose their logic when
        > it comes to "extra" dimensions in string theory. There are
        > no "extra" dimensions. There is no direction that orthogonal
        > to the existing three space dimensions. It is more than
        > illogical, it is not even possible. Outside of our universe
        > though, it may be possible, but then these scientists do not
        > know how to observe houtside this universe.
        >
        > I predict string theory will hit the trash heap soon after
        > relativity theory.
        >
        > -Bill
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Light Eye" <universal_heartbeat2012@...>
        > To: <Global_Rumblings@...>; <SpeakIt@...>;
        > <ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com>; <changingplanetchat@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:01 AM
        > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Dark Matter Highlights Extra Dimensions
        >
        >
        > Dear Friends,
        >
        > http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050829/full/050829-18.html
        >
        > Love and Light.
        >
        > David
        >
        > Dark matter highlights extra dimensionsThree new 'directions' could
        > explain
        > astronomical puzzle.
        > Philip Ball
        >
        >
        >
        > In a spin: the twirling of galaxies reveals a mystery. Dark matter seems
        > to
        > be attracted to itself, and more so in smaller galaxies.
        > © NASA/JPL-Caltech/SSC Welcome to the fourth dimension. And the fifth, and
        > the sixth. A team of astrophysicists claims to have identified evidence
        > that
        > space is six-dimensional.
        >
        > Joseph Silk of the University of Oxford, UK, and his co-workers say that
        > these extra spatial dimensions can be inferred from the perplexing
        > behaviour
        > of dark matter. This mysterious stuff cannot be seen, but its presence in
        > galaxies is betrayed by the gravitational tug that it exerts on visible
        > stars.
        >
        > Silk and his colleagues looked at how dark matter behaves differently in
        > small galaxies and large clusters of galaxies. In the smaller ones, dark
        > matter seems to be attracted to itself quite strongly. But in the large
        > galactic clusters this doesn't seem to be the case: strongly interacting
        > dark matter should produce cores of dark material bigger than those that
        > are
        > actually there, as deduced from the way the cluster spins.
        >
        > One explanation, they say, is that three extra dimensions, in addition to
        > the three spatial ones to which we are accustomed, are altering the
        > effects
        > of gravity over very short distances of about a nanometre1.
        >
        > The team argues that such astronomical observations of dark matter provide
        > the first potential evidence for extra dimensions. Others are supportive,
        > but unconvinced. Lisa Randall, a Harvard physicist who has explored the
        > possibility of extra spatial dimensions, says "Even if their idea works,
        > which it probably does, it may be an overstatement to use these
        > observations
        > as evidence of extra dimensions."
        >
        > Silk himself acknowledges that the proposal is "extremely speculative".
        >
        > Too small to see
        >
        > Physicists have suspected for years that 'hidden' dimensions exist,
        > largely
        > because they seem to be predicted by string theory, the current favourite
        > for a theory of fundamental subatomic particles.
        >
        > These extra dimensions are generally thought to be tiny: many billions of
        > times smaller than atoms. This would make these dimensions very hard to
        > detect, explaining why the Universe looks as if it has just three.
        > Physicists such as Randall, however, have proposed that some extra
        > dimensions might be relatively big, but inaccessible to us.
        >
        > The extra dimensions that Silk and colleagues say they have identified are
        > likewise 'big', at about a nanometre across. In other words, they say, the
        > Universe is only about a nanometre wide in these three 'directions'.
        >
        > They argue that the force of gravity does not obey Isaac Newton's famous
        > laws over small distances, where these dimensions come into play. This has
        > never been tested experimentally: no one has measured how gravity behaves
        > over distances below about a hundredth of a millimetre.
        >
        > Dark stranger
        >
        > This variation in gravity, says Silk, could be why dark matter behaves
        > differently in different galactic environments.
        >
        > According to one interpretation of the astronomical observations, dark
        > matter, which is thought to account for 85% of all the mass in the
        > Universe
        > but not to be made from the known fundamental particles, seems to attract
        > itself through some unknown force. And this attraction seems to be
        > stronger
        > in dwarf galaxies than in galactic clusters. This is very odd: it is
        > rather
        > as if apples were to fall faster from single trees than from trees in an
        > orchard.
        >
        > But the attraction isn't due to an unknown force, argue Silk and his
        > colleagues, but to the effect of extra dimensions on gravity. And because
        > dark matter particles are accelerated to higher speeds in massive galactic
        > clusters than in dwarf galaxies, they spend less time close to each other,
        > so the effects of these extra dimensions are felt less.
        >
        > Radical answer
        >
        > There are other ways of explaining the puzzling dark-matter distributions,
        > admits Silk's colleague Ue-Li Pen of the University of Toronto in Canada.
        > For example, one could assume that the rate at which stars explode, as
        > supernovae, was quite different in the past.
        >
        > "Personally, I think changing the supernovae rate is more conservative
        > than
        > changing the number of spatial dimensions," Pen confesses. But he thinks
        > that invoking extra dimensions is such an exciting idea that it is worth
        > investigating, "even if it is a long shot".
        >
        > The most popular versions of string theory suggest that there are as many
        > as
        > eight extra dimensions, not just three. But thankfully this needn't be a
        > problem. There's no reason why, in addition to the three large extra
        > dimensions predicted by Silk and colleagues, there might not be several
        > other small ones too.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >





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      • David
        Dear Friends, Bill wrote; There may be extra dimensions of time, but not space. Surely there are extra dimensions of time, but I, for one, wouldn t be so
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 3, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Friends,

          Bill wrote;

          "There may be extra dimensions of time, but not space."

          Surely there are extra dimensions of time, but I, for one, wouldn't be
          so sure about there not being more space dimensions. That's like those
          who say UFO's don't exist because we don't have any "hard" evidence -
          whatever that means ;-)

          Just my opinion mind you...

          Love and Light.

          David
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