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RE: [ufodiscussion] Who Designed The Designer?

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  • Jahnets
    This guy is silly. He assumes that people who believe in intelligent design do so trying to twist the idea to a new religious level but he s wrong. They
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 29, 2005
      This guy is silly. He assumes that people who believe in intelligent design
      do so trying to twist the idea to a new religious level but he's wrong. They
      believe in intelligent design because of what they have experienced and met,
      which accordingly is empirical as it was observed. Because they have found
      the proof for themselves and aren't interested in the political game playing
      that he wants to refer to as science.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Light Eye
      Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 11:39 AM
      To: Global_Rumblings@...; SpeakIt@...;
      SkyOpen@yahoogroups.com; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com;
      Subject: [ufodiscussion] Who Designed The Designer?

      Dear Friends,


      Love and Light.


      Who designed the Designer?
      By Marcelo Gleiser | August 29, 2005

      THE DECLARATION by President Bush that ''intelligent design" should be
      discussed in the classroom as a counterpoint to the theory of evolution has
      pushed the issue to the forefront of the unfortunately named ''war" between
      science and religion.
      Not that the proponents of ID accept, at least openly, a religious label.
      They claim that ID is science and should be treated as such. After all, they
      don't state that the designer is God. It can be any kind of intelligence,
      just bright and powerful enough to create the amazing complexity of life: We
      (or our bacterial ancestors) are the lab rats in an ongoing experiment.
      According to some ''IDists," the possibility that the designer is an
      extraterrestrial intelligence should not be neglected. I will try to
      convince you that it should.

      Some of my colleagues think that what I am doing right now is wrong; that
      for a scientist to discuss the issue is to give it a credibility it doesn't
      deserve. They refuse to participate in roundtable discussions with IDists,
      claiming that the effort amounts to a huge waste of time, that those who
      support intelligent design do so for reasons that are not scientific and
      that no 60-minute or lifelong discussion would change their minds.

      I disagree. It's true that arguing rationally with those who blindly believe
      in ID or anything else is impossible. Extremists of any sort are deaf to
      reason. But this is not the audience scientists should have in mind. They
      should be targeting the millions of others who sit on the fence, confused
      and curious, wondering why the heck scientists, who are so sure of their
      theories, don't appear publicly to demolish the IDists for once and for all.
      But while scientists remain mostly silent, creationists and IDists proclaim
      their ''truths" for all who want to hear them. Scientists need to speak up.

      A hypothesis is scientific if it can be empirically validated. One must
      ''see to believe" -- exactly the opposite of the ''believe to see" which
      forms the premise of many religious systems. It's much easier to see
      miracles everywhere if you believe in them. The scientific ''see to believe"
      is supported by data acquired in the lab or through observations. If the
      hypothesis is vindicated, the scientific community, after much debate,
      accepts it. This doesn't mean it will remain part of the established
      ''truth." New theories sprout through the cracks of old ones. Science needs
      crisis to evolve. It needs mysteries. It is always incomplete. Behind our
      ignorance there is just the science we haven't yet developed.

      Here is an example. Late in the 19th century, it was known that Mercury's
      orbit shifted very slowly, like a wobbling top. The orbit's behavior was a
      mystery, and Newton's theory of gravity couldn't describe it. Astronomers
      even invented an imaginary planet between Mercury and the Sun to explain the

      In 1916, Einstein proposed a new way to think about gravity, his general
      theory of relativity. Instead of Newton's mysterious action-at-a-distance,
      Einstein suggested that space was plastic, that matter could bend and
      stretch it like a rubber sheet. Einstein's theory explained Mercury's
      wobbling as a consequence of the bending of space near the Sun. New science
      resolved an old mystery. Does this mean that Einstein's theory is the last
      word in gravity? No. Eventually, it will be modified by a more powerful
      theory capable of explaining things it cannot.

      The ID hypothesis, that we, or a few key steps in the evolution of life, are
      products of purposeful design is not scientific. There is no way to test it.
      It cannot be confirmed experimentally. The statement that life is too
      complex to have happened by chance and that we are somehow fundamentally
      incapable to understand how reflects a deeply unscientific attitude, a
      put-down of human reason. The uncertainties of today are tomorrow's new

      If I had the opportunity to meet the assumed designer, I'd ask what, to me,
      is the most important question of them all: ''Mr. Designer, who designed

      If the designer answers that it doesn't know, that perhaps it was also
      designed, we fall into an endless regression, straight back to the problem
      of the first cause, the one that needs no cause. At this point the mask
      tumbles and we finally discover the true identity of the IDists' Designer.
      We should capitalize the word, as this is how we are taught to refer to God.

      Marcelo Gleiser, a professor of physics and astronomy at Dartmouth College,
      is the author of ''The Prophet and the Astronomer: A Scientific Journey to
      the End of Time." He is currently working on a biographical novel of
      Johannes Kepler.
      © Copyright 2005 Globe Newspaper Company.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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