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  • DRxDON
    ... Regan, I think that we are beginning to nit-pick and quibble over minutia. :-) I agree with everything you say in your other comments. I was just making
    Message 1 of 41 , Dec 1, 2004
      Regan Power wrote:

      > Don: Such "others", I believe.. OOPS! I said that word! ;-), had a part
      > in altering our spiritual and physical development. Many such "others" are
      > more deeply trapped in the "False ego" than are we, despite their seemingly
      > "godlike" powers, and are even more convinced of their separateness. At our
      > "lower" spiritual awareness, we have believed that we are lesser beings and
      > so fell into their trap. At spiritually much deeper or "higher" levels,
      > though, we were/are aware that we purposefully and consciously allowed such
      > *seeming* manipulation to take place in order to advance our spiritual
      > selves in this "risky" manner. I have no "evidence" for this, and I don't
      > want to get into another discussion, as I did with Bill and Janet, as to
      > what exactly constitutes "evidence" in the first place. I base these ideas
      > of my analysis of many things; world mythology, comparative religions,
      > alleged UFO/ET encounters and communications, etc. Mostly, though, after
      > all of this information, I derive my ideas from my own intuitive or even
      > "revelatory" perception.
      > Regan: I believe there is nothing wrong with using the term "others" in the
      > context of the Great Game of Life, if it is understood that there is an
      > absolute unity and common identity underlying all the individual players and
      > their games. But if the term is used in such a way as to suggest that their
      > "otherness" is absolute, total and real, then I would argue with it, because
      > that would be to create another, artificial and burdensome illusion on top
      > of the creative illusion of individuality which nature has already given us.
      > But I am unclear now, Don, as to what you are really saying here.
      > You spoke of "tampering" and "manipulation", which sounded accusatory to me,
      > before. Now you speak of certain "others" who only "had a part in altering
      > our spiritual and physical development", which would hardly put the aliens
      > in the dock in any World Court of Human Rights. Can you clarify your
      > position on this, please?


      I think that we are beginning to nit-pick and quibble over minutia. :-) I
      agree with everything you say in your other comments. I was just making sure
      that you also "repected" the nature of individuality, and were not suggesting
      that we should dissolve ourSELVES into the ONE. Apparently you have clarified
      yourself here and we see eye to eye.

      When I say "tamper" and "manipulate" I AM being "accusatory",... to a degree,
      though I think you read a lot more of such a connotation into it. As I said to
      Janet, there are some "others", I feel, that may be more or less on the "right"
      track and some others that may be way off base and may even be trapped further
      into the "False ego" than we ourselves. By this I mean that I feel that *some*
      beings are almost *convinced* that they are "separate" and "other" in *almost*
      an absolute sense, or at least believe that such a state is attainable and even
      desireable. In such a case I believe I have a "right" to be "accusatory", just
      as I would have a right to be accusatory in human rights abuse.

      I may understand the psychological history and disturbance involved in human
      perpetrators of abuse. Thus I may understand at lower spiritual levels that
      these people have "problems" and I can "forgive" them. I can also even understand
      that at higher levels the so-called "victim" is "playing a game" of being a "victim"
      for their own hidden spiritual purposes. Nevertheless, at a base human level I
      can still refer to these "perpetrators of abuse" as such and even have a "righteous
      anger" toward them, even though I may intuitively grasp the "BIG picture". In the
      same manner, I can look at certain "alien others" as "perpetrators of abuse" if
      they are more "users" of us than benevolent "givers", as I feel that *some* are.

      I feel that, as a race of souls, we consiously chose to subject ourselves to
      "manipulation" by a multitude of *seeming* "others", many of which are "not so
      nice" from our human perspective. As such, even though I can intuitively understand
      and accept that this was our choice so there are no "others" to blame, as a *human*
      AT a *human* level of consciousness I can have a "distaste" for some of their
      actions. In other words, whether I may be wise or not, sometimes I just call an
      asshole an asshole. ;-)

      Ultimately, though, our future development resides within *US* and we are the final
      arbiters of the "gods"(aspects of the Universal Nature) whom we ourselves shall
      chose to "shape us". WE don't need no stinkin' gods! ;-)


      What If --------------------------?
    • DRxDON
      No need to get sarcastic, Janet. I was just making the point that there are as many, if not more, accounts of negative behavior toward humans during events
      Message 41 of 41 , Dec 5, 2004
        No need to get sarcastic, Janet. I was just making the point that there
        are as many, if not more, accounts of "negative" behavior toward humans
        during events which the experiencers describe as "abuctions" than their
        are accounts of "positive" behavior. This is NOT so in experiences openly
        described as "contacts". NO, I haven't read ALL accounts, but I think that
        I've read as many as most researchers. I would say that you are fortunate
        that you have never had a negative experience, and I suppose that would
        tend to make you more open to the "bright side" of things.

        I'm just trying to get to the point where we firmly disagree and define it.
        I think that point is that you feel no *entire* race of ETs could be defined
        as "bad" or have "negative intentions" toward humanity on the whole whereas
        I do. You feel that any incidents of negative ET behavior are just examples
        of *individual* "personality quirks" of the particular ET in question. I say
        that this may be so in some cases but I also feel that if we are dealing with
        a collective "hive" mind, as I believe is the case in many encounters, then
        the concept of an entire race of ETs having hostile intentions toward the
        human race is valid.

        I may be wrong here(correct me if I am) but I believe that you also feel, like
        Laneesa and I *think* as Karin too, that all fearful and highly negative and
        traumatic experiences are merely the result of the experiencer's "fear-based"
        mentality and refusal to "open up". Although I can accept that *some* first
        contacts which are initiated without "prior notice" can be unsettling and
        "freaky", on the whole, I disagree with the above generalization about highly
        traumatic events. I myself had a waking "apparitional contact" with a powerful
        entity that could be called "fearsome". It freaked me out and I was afraid but
        I sensed no actual "malevolence" from the being, only a "challenge". It was
        very impersonal to my "ego-self" but I had the feeling that it was transferring
        vast amounts of multidimensional information to a "higher level" of my psyche
        which my conscious mind couldn't comprehend. This event signaled a very
        powerful turning point in my life and I credit it with a great deal of my

        As far as creating reality from the energy of our thoughts, I firmly believe
        this too. However, there are many "hidden" thoughts and "false beliefs"
        involved within all of us. I feel that it is from this "hidden" part of
        ourselves that most of our "reality" emerges. Our conscious minds reflect
        this reality and validate it. "Know thySELF!"

        I hope that we understand each other better now and know where to agree to
        disagree. :-)


        Jahnets wrote:
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
        > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:42 AM
        > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] REPTOIDS APPEAR IN LOVECRAFT.
        > Janet,
        > I considered ALL of the points you made,....YEARS ago. It was only AFTER
        > reading
        > ALL reports of encounters and looking at them in "depth and in their
        > "subtleties"
        > that I concluded that "something just wasn't right" in *SOME* of the
        > reported cases.
        > It wasn't *just* disoriented fear reported by the *particular* abductees of
        > which
        > I speak, which as you say, could very well be expected, understanding the
        > situation
        > and general human psychology. It was outright snide condescension and even
        > *hostility*.
        > J: I hadn't realized that you had read every reported case there is...Is
        > that suppose to give your thoughts preferance over mine??? Possibly they
        > were arrogant??? You're being vague Don... Just what something wasn't
        > right??? OH, I get it...Another race has been snide with a human while they
        > were abducted. That is what's bothering you right? Hasn't a human ever been
        > snide with you or others you knew??? Ever been pulled over for a ticket and
        > made the mistake of questioning the officer???
        > Why can't you accept the *posibility* that *some* ETs, and even entire
        > "collective"
        > ET races, are not "nice" and don't have our best interests in mind, at least
        > as far
        > as our *individual* identities are concerned as a race? IMO, it is more
        > logical to
        > assume that *some* ETs are what we would call of a "negative" frame of being
        > and that
        > *some* are from a "positive" frame of being than to say that ALL ETs are
        > here for our
        > greater good.
        > J: There you go again twisting my words Don, I stated that I'm sure some are
        > jerks too just like HUMANS, however I consider stating that a whole race as
        > not nice solely because they are from that race as being prejudice... I have
        > yet to meet an evil one, where I have met evil humans... That doesn't mean
        > there aren't a few out there, just I haven't met them.
        > I used to believe that any beings that have such vast knowledge and powers
        > MUST be
        > highly spiritually advanced too and therefore be "good" regardless of what
        > we think
        > and see from our perspective. Then, the more I learned of occult powers and
        > the more
        > intuitive I became, I realized that beings can be VERY powerful with
        > "etheric"
        > technology but even *less* "spiritually" advanced than us. There is a long
        > history
        > of "evil" sorcerers with vast "spiritual" powers which they use for very
        > "negative"
        > purposes. In the Hindu Bhagavagita, there is told the great battles of the
        > "gods"
        > between those of Light and the "Asuras", those of Darkness. Both had
        > "Vimanas" (UFOs),
        > which had the ability to fly through space and time and to other planets and
        > posessed
        > fantastic weaponry which sound like nuclear or plasma based explosives and
        > beams of
        > today.
        > J: I have heard of humans who have reached enlightenment and then later
        > became twisted allowing the power to get out of hand and thinking of
        > themselves as better due to it. Since we have genes of the gods, and humans
        > seem to have this problem some times then it isn't too far of a jump to see
        > where it came from... No one is perfect Don, only All That Is. The best we
        > can hope for I think is to be perfect for what we are and what we set out to
        > do here... If we can do better than that then we're doing pretty good...
        > As to the "agremeent" thing, I said that I feel that we, as a race of souls,
        > DID agree
        > to be subjected to ALL sorts of "manipulation" by "gods" before we even
        > incarnated here.
        > However, this doesn't mean that we don't still have a CHOICE to decide which
        > particular
        > "gods" with which we want to be involved, nor does it mean that we can, AT
        > ANY TIME,
        > decide to WAKEUP from this "illusion" and not be involved with ANY "gods"
        > whatsoever
        > anymore.
        > Don
        > J: Did I say we didn't have a choice which gods, aliens,etc. we deal
        > with???I had a teacher who was enlightened and he dealt with them, so I have
        > to say good luck Don...
        > I understand where you are coming from Don, I just don't agree with all of
        > it, and that's ok... The whole point to our discussion of these issues isn't
        > so we agree with each other, but rather put various different ideas out
        > there for others to think about and discuss. See by everyone reading this
        > and disagreeing or agreeing they are putting the energy into the thoughts.
        > Where you put your energy is what you create...ha ha
        > Jahnets wrote:
        > >
        > > Don,
        > >
        > > Where it may or may not be true, fact is, it is how "they
        > interpreted" the
        > > aliens. Right??? Have you never misinterpreted humans intentions? So I
        > think
        > > you'll understand if I question some of those. I believe anyone and
        > everyone
        > > going up on those ships gets examined. Does that not make sense to you? Do
        > > you think our astronauts would do differently bringing an alien on board
        > > their ship if they happened to run into them??? To me this is perfectly
        > > logical. Not evil, not mean, not intended to hurt anyone's feelings. You
        > say
        > > I haven't experienced any type of behavior like this but that isn't true
        > > really, I have just learned from it rather than automatically seeing it in
        > > the light of hurtfulness. When I met Osiris and his court I was standing
        > on
        > > the red carpet in very old pajamas that I would never have worn in
        > public...
        > > When I looked down and realized what I had on in front of all these beings
        > I
        > > was at first embarrassed, then mad and literally glared around the room
        > > searching for who ever had thought to land me in the middle of this group
        > > without clothing me properly, then I thought ok fine you want a look and
        > > stood up and ignored it the rest of the time. I grew... I am not my body,
        > I
        > > am what animates this body. Now was that a disservice to me??? I would say
        > > it was more of a test looking back on it... Like "she knows it does she
        > > believe it?", you know... I guess the point I'm trying to make here is
        > they
        > > aren't humans and most expect them to understand our feelings in regards
        > to
        > > behavior just because their telepathic...Wrong...Also the shock of the
        > > experience tends to make one over-emotional to begin with, it's only after
        > > you sit and think on it awhile that some of the subtleties come out. Then
        > > this has been happening to me since I was 5 so I'm used to it. I'm not
        > > saying that some of them can't be jerks without even trying just like
        > > humans, but to say it's intentional harm? As for this "you agreed to it",
        > I
        > > have noticed something that might enlighten this for everyone... While I
        > > have been talking to some of my contacts, they will ask me something and
        > > I'll say sure, and they look at each other, and their body language says,
        > > "OK, she just agreed"... Which when I noticed it I had to pause and think
        > ok
        > > am I agreeing to more than what I thought I was agreeing to??? So you see
        > I
        > > can see this happening quite easily due to translation... When I note that
        > I
        > > try to qualify what ever we are talking about to avert this, but still we
        > > have had a few misunderstandings... That doesn't mean they are horrible
        > > monsters, with evil intentions like some say... Have you ever thought that
        > > maybe because they have hierarchical governing that since our government
        > has
        > > ok'd this, that that means we have ok'd it to??? I mean just a thought but
        > > that leaves a lot to misunderstanding...Another thing whether people
        > realize
        > > this or not their thoughts bring things to them. If people think about
        > them
        > > in a day dreamy sort of way they are going to pick it up faster than a
        > human
        > > would and comply...ha ha They're telepathic. So if one thinks about them a
        > > lot, does this mean that person wants to meet up with them??? See there
        > are
        > > a lot of ways we may be agreeing to things that we don't realize we
        > are...
        > > and that is besides for moving into the Aquarian age and the enlightenment
        > > that is occurring generally with all people now... Let's try to be fair
        > even
        > > in the face of over emotionalism...
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
        > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:10 PM
        > > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] REPTOIDS APPEAR IN LOVECRAFT.
        > >
        > > Janet,
        > >
        > > I am only going by *some* of the accounts of *abductees*, not
        > *contactees*,
        > > who say that they were treated with disrespect by their abductors. When
        > > they
        > > told the abductors that they had no right to abduct them they were told
        > "we
        > > have every right", "we made you", "you are US", etc, in very a very
        > > condescending
        > > manner. Whitley Strieber is the most notable amongst this group but there
        > > are
        > > others. I recognize that there are contactees and even abductees who do
        > not
        > > get treated this way and are merely taken aboard, given some kind of
        > > examination
        > > which is usually kind of "fuzzy" in their memory and then given a tour of
        > > the
        > > ship and perhaps some kind of "message". The fact that you haven't
        > > experienced
        > > this, nor anyone else that you know, does not mean that this has not
        > > happened
        > > to others. I am just saying, to put it in VERY simplistic earth
        > > frame-of-reference
        > > terminology, that there probably are "nicer" ETs and ETs who are not so
        > > "nice".
        > >
        > > Don
        > >
        > > Jahnets wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Don, I am both an abductee and a contactee ongoing... I have never met
        > one
        > > > alien that even subtlely stated that we were under their sovereign right
        > > to
        > > > control. About the only way I can even see this is in the sense that
        > > > resposibilty merits you take care of and deal with what you create...

        What If --------------------------?
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