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RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.

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  • Jahnets
    Ok I have a question... They shape-shift. To us ... To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn t what s relevant, it s the being that inhabits it and
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 31, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Ok I have a question...

      "They shape-shift. To us
      > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
      > overcoat."

      To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
      being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
      beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
      which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
      important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
      with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
      their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
      just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
      us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
      Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
      To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
      Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



      >
      >
      > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
      >
      > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
      > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
      > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
      > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
      > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
      > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
      > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
      > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
      > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
      > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
      > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
      > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
      > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
      > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
      > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
      > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
      > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
      > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
      > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
      > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
      > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
      > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
      > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
      > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
      > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
      > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
      > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
      >
      <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
      Nibiru/join>
      >
      >
      >
      http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
      ibiru/join
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
      > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
      > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
      > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
      > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
      > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
      > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
      > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
      > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
      > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
      > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
      > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
      > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
      > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
      > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
      > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
      > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
      > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
      > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
      > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
      > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
      > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
      > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
      > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
      > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
      > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
      > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
      > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
      > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
      > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
      > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
      > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
      > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
      > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
      > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
      > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
      > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
      > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
      > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
      > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
      > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
      > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
      > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
      > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
      > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
      > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
      > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
      > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
      > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
      > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
      > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
      > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
      > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
      > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
      > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
      > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
      > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
      > threaten people who are communicating information about
      > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
      > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
      > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
      > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
      > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
      > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
      > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
      > way.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
      > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
      > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
      > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
      > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
      > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
      > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
      > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
      > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
      > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
      > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
      > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
      > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
      > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
      > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
      > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
      > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
      > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
      > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
      > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
      > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
      > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
      > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
      > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
      > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
      > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
      > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
      > the book.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
      > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
      > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
      > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
      > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
      > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
      > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
      > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
      > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
      > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
      > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
      > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
      > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
      > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
      > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
      > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
      > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
      > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
      > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
      > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
      > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
      > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
      > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
      > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
      > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
      > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
      > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
      > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
      > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
      > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
      > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
      > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
      > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
      > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
      > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
      > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
      > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
      > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
      > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
      > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
      > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
      > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
      > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
      > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
      > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
      > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
      > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
      > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
      > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
      > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
      > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
      > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
      > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
      > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
      > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
      > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
      > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
      > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
      > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
      > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
      > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
      > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
      > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
      > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
      > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
      > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
      > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
      > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
      > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
      > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
      > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
      > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
      > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
      > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
      > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
      > overcoat.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
      > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
      > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
      > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
      > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
      > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
      > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
      > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
      > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
      > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
      > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
      > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
      > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
      > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
      > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
      > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
      > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
      > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
      > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
      > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
      > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
      > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
      > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
      > Herald Examiner."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
      > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
      >
      > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
      > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
      > People Love Bush
      >
      >
      >
      > From: Smacko
      >
      > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
      > Presence'?
      >
      >
      >
      > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
      > frankly I
      > still don't have a good answer.
      > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
      > any sort of "presence."
      >
      >
      > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
      > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
      > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
      > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
      > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
      > witnesses to
      > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
      > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
      > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
      > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
      > correct
      > portion of the brain.
      >
      >
      > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
      > Roswell
      > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
      > that the
      > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
      > "presence."
      >
      >
      > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
      > absence.
      >
      >
      > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
      > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
      > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
      > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
      > if you
      > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
      > FLATLAND?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
      > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
      > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
      > situation
      > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
      > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
      > out of
      > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
      > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
      > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
      > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
      > some
      > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
      > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
      > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
      > which
      > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
      > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
      >
      > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
      >
      > Jerry E. Smith
      > Author & Lecturer
      >
      > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
      > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
      >
      >
      > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
      > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
      > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
      > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
      > cults and
      > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
      > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
      > where
      > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
      > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
      > Universal
      > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
      >
      >
      >
      http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
      0603\
      >
      <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
      00603%5C>
      > .
      >
      > __________________________________________________
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    • Jeffrey Morgan Foss
      You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That s why they do not harass or retaliate. Jeff ... From: Jahnets To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not harass or retaliate.

        Jeff

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jahnets
        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
        Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.


        Ok I have a question...

        "They shape-shift. To us
        > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
        > overcoat."

        To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
        being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
        beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
        which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
        important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
        with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
        their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
        just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
        us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???



        -----Original Message-----
        From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
        Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
        To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
        Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



        >
        >
        > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
        >
        > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
        > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
        > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
        > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
        > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
        > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
        > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
        > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
        > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
        > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
        > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
        > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
        > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
        > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
        > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
        > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
        > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
        > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
        > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
        > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
        > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
        > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
        > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
        > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
        > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
        > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
        > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
        >
        <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
        Nibiru/join>
        >
        >
        >
        http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
        ibiru/join
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
        > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
        > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
        > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
        > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
        > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
        > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
        > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
        > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
        > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
        > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
        > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
        > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
        > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
        > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
        > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
        > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
        > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
        > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
        > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
        > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
        > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
        > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
        > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
        > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
        > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
        > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
        > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
        > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
        > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
        > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
        > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
        > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
        > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
        > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
        > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
        > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
        > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
        > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
        > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
        > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
        > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
        > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
        > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
        > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
        > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
        > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
        > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
        > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
        > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
        > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
        > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
        > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
        > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
        > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
        > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
        > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
        > threaten people who are communicating information about
        > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
        > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
        > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
        > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
        > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
        > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
        > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
        > way.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
        > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
        > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
        > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
        > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
        > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
        > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
        > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
        > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
        > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
        > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
        > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
        > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
        > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
        > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
        > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
        > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
        > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
        > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
        > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
        > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
        > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
        > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
        > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
        > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
        > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
        > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
        > the book.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
        > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
        > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
        > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
        > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
        > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
        > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
        > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
        > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
        > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
        > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
        > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
        > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
        > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
        > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
        > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
        > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
        > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
        > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
        > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
        > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
        > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
        > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
        > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
        > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
        > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
        > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
        > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
        > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
        > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
        > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
        > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
        > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
        > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
        > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
        > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
        > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
        > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
        > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
        > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
        > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
        > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
        > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
        > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
        > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
        > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
        > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
        > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
        > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
        > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
        > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
        > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
        > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
        > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
        > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
        > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
        > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
        > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
        > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
        > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
        > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
        > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
        > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
        > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
        > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
        > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
        > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
        > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
        > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
        > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
        > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
        > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
        > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
        > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
        > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
        > overcoat.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
        > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
        > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
        > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
        > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
        > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
        > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
        > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
        > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
        > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
        > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
        > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
        > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
        > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
        > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
        > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
        > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
        > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
        > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
        > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
        > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
        > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
        > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
        > Herald Examiner."
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
        > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
        >
        > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
        > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
        > People Love Bush
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Smacko
        >
        > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
        > Presence'?
        >
        >
        >
        > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
        > frankly I
        > still don't have a good answer.
        > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
        > any sort of "presence."
        >
        >
        > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
        > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
        > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
        > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
        > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
        > witnesses to
        > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
        > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
        > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
        > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
        > correct
        > portion of the brain.
        >
        >
        > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
        > Roswell
        > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
        > that the
        > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
        > "presence."
        >
        >
        > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
        > absence.
        >
        >
        > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
        > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
        > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
        > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
        > if you
        > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
        > FLATLAND?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
        > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
        > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
        > situation
        > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
        > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
        > out of
        > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
        > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
        > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
        > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
        > some
        > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
        > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
        > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
        > which
        > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
        > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
        >
        > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
        >
        > Jerry E. Smith
        > Author & Lecturer
        >
        > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
        > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
        >
        >
        > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
        > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
        > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
        > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
        > cults and
        > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
        > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
        > where
        > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
        > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
        > Universal
        > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
        >
        >
        >
        http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
        0603\
        >
        <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
        00603%5C>
        > .
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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      • Jahnets
        Haha...I wasn t refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so well???lol
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha
          I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
          well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
          realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in a
          chess game...;-)



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
          To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



          You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not
          harass or retaliate.

          Jeff

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jahnets
          To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
          Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.


          Ok I have a question...

          "They shape-shift. To us
          > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
          > overcoat."

          To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
          being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
          beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
          which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
          important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
          with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
          their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
          just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
          us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???



          -----Original Message-----
          From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
          Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
          To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
          Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



          >
          >
          > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
          >
          > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
          > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
          > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
          > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
          > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
          > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
          > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
          > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
          > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
          > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
          > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
          > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
          > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
          > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
          > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
          > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
          > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
          > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
          > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
          > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
          > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
          > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
          > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
          > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
          > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
          > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
          > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
          >
          <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
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          >
          >
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          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
          > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
          > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
          > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
          > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
          > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
          > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
          > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
          > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
          > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
          > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
          > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
          > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
          > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
          > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
          > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
          > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
          > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
          > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
          > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
          > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
          > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
          > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
          > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
          > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
          > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
          > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
          > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
          > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
          > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
          > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
          > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
          > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
          > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
          > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
          > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
          > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
          > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
          > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
          > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
          > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
          > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
          > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
          > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
          > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
          > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
          > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
          > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
          > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
          > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
          > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
          > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
          > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
          > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
          > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
          > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
          > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
          > threaten people who are communicating information about
          > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
          > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
          > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
          > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
          > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
          > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
          > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
          > way.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
          > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
          > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
          > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
          > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
          > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
          > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
          > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
          > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
          > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
          > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
          > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
          > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
          > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
          > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
          > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
          > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
          > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
          > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
          > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
          > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
          > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
          > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
          > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
          > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
          > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
          > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
          > the book.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
          > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
          > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
          > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
          > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
          > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
          > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
          > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
          > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
          > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
          > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
          > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
          > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
          > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
          > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
          > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
          > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
          > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
          > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
          > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
          > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
          > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
          > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
          > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
          > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
          > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
          > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
          > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
          > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
          > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
          > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
          > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
          > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
          > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
          > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
          > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
          > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
          > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
          > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
          > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
          > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
          > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
          > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
          > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
          > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
          > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
          > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
          > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
          > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
          > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
          > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
          > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
          > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
          > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
          > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
          > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
          > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
          > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
          > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
          > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
          > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
          > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
          > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
          > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
          > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
          > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
          > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
          > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
          > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
          > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
          > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
          > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
          > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
          > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
          > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
          > overcoat.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
          > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
          > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
          > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
          > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
          > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
          > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
          > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
          > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
          > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
          > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
          > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
          > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
          > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
          > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
          > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
          > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
          > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
          > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
          > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
          > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
          > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
          > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
          > Herald Examiner."
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
          > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
          >
          > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
          > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
          > People Love Bush
          >
          >
          >
          > From: Smacko
          >
          > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
          > Presence'?
          >
          >
          >
          > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
          > frankly I
          > still don't have a good answer.
          > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
          > any sort of "presence."
          >
          >
          > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
          > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
          > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
          > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
          > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
          > witnesses to
          > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
          > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
          > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
          > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
          > correct
          > portion of the brain.
          >
          >
          > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
          > Roswell
          > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
          > that the
          > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
          > "presence."
          >
          >
          > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
          > absence.
          >
          >
          > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
          > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
          > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
          > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
          > if you
          > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
          > FLATLAND?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
          > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
          > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
          > situation
          > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
          > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
          > out of
          > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
          > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
          > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
          > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
          > some
          > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
          > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
          > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
          > which
          > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
          > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
          >
          > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
          >
          > Jerry E. Smith
          > Author & Lecturer
          >
          > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
          > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
          >
          >
          > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
          > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
          > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
          > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
          > cults and
          > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
          > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
          > where
          > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
          > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
          > Universal
          > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
          >
          >
          >
          http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
          0603\
          >
          <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
          00603%5C>
          > .
          >
          > __________________________________________________
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        • DRxDON
          Janet, I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging viewpoints on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Janet,

            I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging viewpoints
            on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a point of
            "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is largely in
            disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of starting an
            argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.

            Now, I would honestly like to know your opinion of something here. Do you really
            believe that ALL "visitors" are friendly and benevolent, as Richard Boylan does?
            If so, I must state my position on this. I believe that to believe in such a
            position is "extremist" and just as "radical" in believeing that ALL "visitors"
            are evil and malevolent.

            I believe, like I think you said before, that ETs can be looked at as humans; some
            *individuals" are "good" and some are "bad", just as some whole factions of the
            human race have the betterment of the race in mind while other factions are just
            out for ego glory and power-mongering. Even those who have the betterment of the
            human race in mind may be *severely* misguided in believing that the "ends justify
            the means". Some of these people may even be blind to some of their own ego-glory
            seeking behavior too. I would say that the same could apply to ET races.

            Also, I believe that whole ET races may indeed be caught up into a collective
            mentality whereby it may NOT just be "racist generalization" to suggest that an
            entire ET race may have particular "designs" with regards to the future of our race.
            Of course, it is also not out of the question that such "homogenized" collective
            races may not have dissenters of their own.

            The basic point I am trying to make, I guess, is that the question or "good" vs "bad"
            ETs is not an easy one to answer.

            Don


            Jahnets wrote:
            >
            > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha
            > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
            > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
            > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in a
            > chess game...;-)
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
            > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
            > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
            >
            > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not
            > harass or retaliate.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Jahnets
            > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
            > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
            >
            > Ok I have a question...
            >
            > "They shape-shift. To us
            > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
            > > overcoat."
            >
            > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
            > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
            > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
            > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
            > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
            > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
            > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
            > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
            > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
            > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
            > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
            > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
            > >
            > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
            > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
            > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
            > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
            > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
            > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
            > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
            > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
            > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
            > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
            > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
            > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
            > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
            > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
            > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
            > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
            > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
            > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
            > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
            > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
            > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
            > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
            > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
            > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
            > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
            > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
            > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
            > >
            > <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
            > Nibiru/join>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
            > ibiru/join
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
            > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
            > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
            > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
            > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
            > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
            > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
            > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
            > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
            > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
            > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
            > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
            > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
            > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
            > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
            > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
            > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
            > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
            > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
            > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
            > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
            > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
            > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
            > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
            > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
            > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
            > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
            > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
            > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
            > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
            > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
            > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
            > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
            > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
            > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
            > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
            > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
            > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
            > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
            > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
            > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
            > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
            > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
            > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
            > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
            > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
            > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
            > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
            > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
            > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
            > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
            > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
            > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
            > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
            > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
            > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
            > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
            > > threaten people who are communicating information about
            > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
            > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
            > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
            > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
            > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
            > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
            > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
            > > way.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
            > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
            > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
            > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
            > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
            > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
            > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
            > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
            > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
            > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
            > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
            > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
            > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
            > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
            > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
            > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
            > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
            > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
            > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
            > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
            > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
            > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
            > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
            > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
            > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
            > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
            > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
            > > the book.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
            > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
            > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
            > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
            > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
            > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
            > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
            > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
            > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
            > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
            > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
            > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
            > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
            > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
            > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
            > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
            > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
            > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
            > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
            > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
            > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
            > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
            > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
            > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
            > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
            > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
            > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
            > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
            > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
            > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
            > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
            > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
            > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
            > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
            > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
            > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
            > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
            > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
            > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
            > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
            > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
            > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
            > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
            > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
            > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
            > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
            > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
            > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
            > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
            > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
            > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
            > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
            > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
            > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
            > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
            > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
            > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
            > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
            > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
            > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
            > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
            > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
            > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
            > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
            > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
            > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
            > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
            > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
            > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
            > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
            > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
            > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
            > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
            > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
            > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
            > > overcoat.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
            > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
            > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
            > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
            > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
            > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
            > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
            > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
            > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
            > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
            > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
            > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
            > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
            > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
            > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
            > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
            > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
            > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
            > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
            > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
            > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
            > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
            > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
            > > Herald Examiner."
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
            > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
            > >
            > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
            > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
            > > People Love Bush
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Smacko
            > >
            > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
            > > Presence'?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
            > > frankly I
            > > still don't have a good answer.
            > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
            > > any sort of "presence."
            > >
            > >
            > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
            > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
            > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
            > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
            > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
            > > witnesses to
            > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
            > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
            > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
            > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
            > > correct
            > > portion of the brain.
            > >
            > >
            > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
            > > Roswell
            > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
            > > that the
            > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
            > > "presence."
            > >
            > >
            > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
            > > absence.
            > >
            > >
            > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
            > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
            > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
            > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
            > > if you
            > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
            > > FLATLAND?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
            > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
            > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
            > > situation
            > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
            > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
            > > out of
            > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
            > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
            > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
            > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
            > > some
            > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
            > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
            > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
            > > which
            > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
            > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
            > >
            > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
            > >
            > > Jerry E. Smith
            > > Author & Lecturer
            > >
            > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
            > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
            > >
            > >
            > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
            > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
            > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
            > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
            > > cults and
            > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
            > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
            > > where
            > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
            > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
            > > Universal
            > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
            > 0603\
            > >
            > <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
            > 00603%5C>
            > > .
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
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            What If --------------------------?
            DRxDON
          • Bill Hamilton
            Don, For once I agree with you (or was it twice or three times). This is a balanced argument. I feel compelled to add that we will judge ETs by their actions
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Don,

              For once I agree with you (or was it twice or three times). This is a balanced argument.
              I feel compelled to add that we will judge ETs by their actions and our standards of what
              constitutes good and evil. We must realize, of course, relative to survival, what might be
              good for ET may not be good for us. For instance, in need of water as their home world
              is drying out, they deplete us of our water resources until we cannot survive. Let us hope
              they would have an EQ on par with their IQ and negotiate first.

              Bill Hamilton
              AstroScience Research
              http://www.geocities.com/xplorer2x/
              "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible." Fred Hoyle

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: DRxDON
              To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:14 PM
              Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.


              Janet,

              I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging viewpoints
              on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a point of
              "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is largely in
              disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of starting an
              argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.

              Now, I would honestly like to know your opinion of something here. Do you really
              believe that ALL "visitors" are friendly and benevolent, as Richard Boylan does?
              If so, I must state my position on this. I believe that to believe in such a
              position is "extremist" and just as "radical" in believeing that ALL "visitors"
              are evil and malevolent.

              I believe, like I think you said before, that ETs can be looked at as humans; some
              *individuals" are "good" and some are "bad", just as some whole factions of the
              human race have the betterment of the race in mind while other factions are just
              out for ego glory and power-mongering. Even those who have the betterment of the
              human race in mind may be *severely* misguided in believing that the "ends justify
              the means". Some of these people may even be blind to some of their own ego-glory
              seeking behavior too. I would say that the same could apply to ET races.

              Also, I believe that whole ET races may indeed be caught up into a collective
              mentality whereby it may NOT just be "racist generalization" to suggest that an
              entire ET race may have particular "designs" with regards to the future of our race.
              Of course, it is also not out of the question that such "homogenized" collective
              races may not have dissenters of their own.

              The basic point I am trying to make, I guess, is that the question or "good" vs "bad"
              ETs is not an easy one to answer.

              Don


              Jahnets wrote:
              >
              > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha
              > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
              > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
              > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in a
              > chess game...;-)
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
              > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
              > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
              >
              > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not
              > harass or retaliate.
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Jahnets
              > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
              > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
              >
              > Ok I have a question...
              >
              > "They shape-shift. To us
              > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
              > > overcoat."
              >
              > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
              > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
              > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
              > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
              > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
              > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
              > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
              > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
              > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
              > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
              > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
              > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
              > >
              > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
              > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
              > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
              > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
              > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
              > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
              > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
              > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
              > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
              > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
              > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
              > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
              > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
              > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
              > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
              > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
              > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
              > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
              > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
              > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
              > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
              > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
              > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
              > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
              > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
              > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
              > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
              > >
              > <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
              > Nibiru/join>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
              > ibiru/join
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
              > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
              > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
              > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
              > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
              > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
              > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
              > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
              > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
              > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
              > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
              > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
              > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
              > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
              > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
              > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
              > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
              > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
              > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
              > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
              > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
              > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
              > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
              > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
              > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
              > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
              > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
              > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
              > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
              > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
              > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
              > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
              > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
              > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
              > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
              > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
              > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
              > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
              > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
              > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
              > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
              > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
              > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
              > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
              > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
              > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
              > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
              > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
              > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
              > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
              > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
              > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
              > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
              > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
              > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
              > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
              > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
              > > threaten people who are communicating information about
              > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
              > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
              > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
              > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
              > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
              > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
              > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
              > > way.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
              > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
              > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
              > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
              > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
              > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
              > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
              > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
              > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
              > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
              > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
              > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
              > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
              > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
              > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
              > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
              > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
              > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
              > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
              > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
              > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
              > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
              > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
              > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
              > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
              > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
              > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
              > > the book.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
              > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
              > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
              > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
              > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
              > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
              > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
              > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
              > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
              > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
              > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
              > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
              > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
              > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
              > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
              > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
              > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
              > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
              > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
              > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
              > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
              > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
              > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
              > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
              > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
              > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
              > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
              > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
              > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
              > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
              > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
              > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
              > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
              > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
              > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
              > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
              > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
              > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
              > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
              > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
              > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
              > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
              > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
              > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
              > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
              > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
              > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
              > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
              > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
              > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
              > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
              > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
              > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
              > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
              > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
              > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
              > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
              > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
              > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
              > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
              > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
              > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
              > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
              > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
              > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
              > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
              > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
              > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
              > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
              > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
              > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
              > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
              > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
              > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
              > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
              > > overcoat.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
              > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
              > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
              > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
              > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
              > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
              > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
              > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
              > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
              > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
              > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
              > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
              > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
              > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
              > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
              > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
              > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
              > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
              > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
              > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
              > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
              > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
              > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
              > > Herald Examiner."
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
              > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
              > >
              > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
              > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
              > > People Love Bush
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > From: Smacko
              > >
              > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
              > > Presence'?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
              > > frankly I
              > > still don't have a good answer.
              > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
              > > any sort of "presence."
              > >
              > >
              > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
              > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
              > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
              > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
              > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
              > > witnesses to
              > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
              > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
              > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
              > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
              > > correct
              > > portion of the brain.
              > >
              > >
              > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
              > > Roswell
              > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
              > > that the
              > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
              > > "presence."
              > >
              > >
              > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
              > > absence.
              > >
              > >
              > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
              > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
              > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
              > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
              > > if you
              > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
              > > FLATLAND?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
              > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
              > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
              > > situation
              > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
              > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
              > > out of
              > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
              > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
              > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
              > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
              > > some
              > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
              > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
              > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
              > > which
              > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
              > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
              > >
              > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
              > >
              > > Jerry E. Smith
              > > Author & Lecturer
              > >
              > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
              > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
              > >
              > >
              > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
              > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
              > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
              > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
              > > cults and
              > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
              > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
              > > where
              > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
              > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
              > > Universal
              > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
              > 0603\
              > >
              > <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
              > 00603%5C>
              > > .
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jahnets
              Don, I am getting ready for work and so will have to get back with you this evening. ;-) ... From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, November
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Don, I am getting ready for work and so will have to get back with you this
                evening. ;-)



                -----Original Message-----
                From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:14 PM
                To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



                Janet,

                I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging
                viewpoints
                on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a
                point of
                "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is largely
                in
                disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of starting
                an
                argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.

                Now, I would honestly like to know your opinion of something here. Do you
                really
                believe that ALL "visitors" are friendly and benevolent, as Richard Boylan
                does?
                If so, I must state my position on this. I believe that to believe in such
                a
                position is "extremist" and just as "radical" in believeing that ALL
                "visitors"
                are evil and malevolent.

                I believe, like I think you said before, that ETs can be looked at as
                humans; some
                *individuals" are "good" and some are "bad", just as some whole factions of
                the
                human race have the betterment of the race in mind while other factions are
                just
                out for ego glory and power-mongering. Even those who have the betterment
                of the
                human race in mind may be *severely* misguided in believing that the "ends
                justify
                the means". Some of these people may even be blind to some of their own
                ego-glory
                seeking behavior too. I would say that the same could apply to ET races.

                Also, I believe that whole ET races may indeed be caught up into a
                collective
                mentality whereby it may NOT just be "racist generalization" to suggest that
                an
                entire ET race may have particular "designs" with regards to the future of
                our race.
                Of course, it is also not out of the question that such "homogenized"
                collective
                races may not have dissenters of their own.

                The basic point I am trying to make, I guess, is that the question or "good"
                vs "bad"
                ETs is not an easy one to answer.

                Don


                Jahnets wrote:
                >
                > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha
                ha
                > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
                > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
                > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in
                a
                > chess game...;-)
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
                > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
                > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                >
                > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do
                not
                > harass or retaliate.
                >
                > Jeff
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Jahnets
                > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
                > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                >
                > Ok I have a question...
                >
                > "They shape-shift. To us
                > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                > > overcoat."
                >
                > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's
                the
                > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
                > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
                > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is
                so
                > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole
                those
                > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
                > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
                > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
                > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
                > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
                > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
                > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
                > >
                > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
                > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
                > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
                > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
                > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
                > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
                > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
                > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
                > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
                > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
                > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
                > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
                > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
                > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
                > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
                > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
                > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
                > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
                > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
                > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
                > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
                > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
                > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
                > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
                > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
                > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
                > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
                > >
                >
                <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
                > Nibiru/join>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
                > ibiru/join
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
                > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
                > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
                > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
                > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
                > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
                > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
                > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
                > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
                > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
                > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
                > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
                > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
                > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
                > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
                > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
                > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
                > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
                > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
                > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
                > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
                > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
                > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
                > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
                > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
                > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
                > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
                > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
                > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
                > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
                > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
                > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
                > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
                > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
                > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
                > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
                > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
                > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
                > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
                > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
                > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
                > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
                > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
                > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
                > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
                > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
                > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
                > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
                > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
                > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
                > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
                > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
                > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
                > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
                > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
                > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
                > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
                > > threaten people who are communicating information about
                > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
                > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
                > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
                > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
                > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
                > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
                > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
                > > way.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
                > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
                > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
                > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
                > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
                > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
                > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
                > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
                > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
                > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
                > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
                > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
                > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
                > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
                > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
                > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
                > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
                > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
                > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
                > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
                > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
                > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
                > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
                > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
                > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
                > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
                > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
                > > the book.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
                > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
                > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
                > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
                > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
                > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
                > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
                > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
                > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
                > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
                > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
                > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
                > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
                > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
                > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
                > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
                > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
                > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
                > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
                > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
                > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
                > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
                > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
                > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
                > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
                > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
                > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
                > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
                > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
                > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
                > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
                > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
                > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
                > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
                > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
                > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
                > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
                > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
                > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
                > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
                > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
                > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
                > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
                > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
                > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
                > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
                > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
                > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
                > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
                > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
                > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
                > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
                > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
                > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
                > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
                > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
                > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
                > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
                > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
                > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
                > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
                > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
                > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
                > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
                > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
                > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
                > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
                > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
                > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
                > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
                > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
                > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
                > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
                > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
                > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                > > overcoat.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
                > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
                > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
                > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
                > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
                > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
                > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
                > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
                > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
                > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
                > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
                > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
                > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
                > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
                > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
                > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
                > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
                > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
                > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
                > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
                > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
                > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
                > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
                > > Herald Examiner."
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
                > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
                > >
                > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
                > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
                > > People Love Bush
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > From: Smacko
                > >
                > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
                > > Presence'?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
                > > frankly I
                > > still don't have a good answer.
                > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much
                less
                > > any sort of "presence."
                > >
                > >
                > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist
                that
                > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
                > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
                > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
                > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
                > > witnesses to
                > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks,
                are
                > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
                > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of
                an
                > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
                > > correct
                > > portion of the brain.
                > >
                > >
                > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
                > > Roswell
                > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
                > > that the
                > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
                > > "presence."
                > >
                > >
                > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
                > > absence.
                > >
                > >
                > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not
                from
                > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
                > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
                > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
                > > if you
                > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
                > > FLATLAND?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
                > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
                > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
                > > situation
                > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the
                basis
                > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
                > > out of
                > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
                > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible
                either.
                > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
                > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
                > > some
                > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of
                Destiny
                > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that
                are
                > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
                > > which
                > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is
                correct.
                > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
                > >
                > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
                > >
                > > Jerry E. Smith
                > > Author & Lecturer
                > >
                > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
                > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
                > >
                > >
                > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
                > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
                > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals
                with
                > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
                > > cults and
                > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
                > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
                > > where
                > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
                > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
                > > Universal
                > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
                > 0603\
                > >
                >
                <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
                > 00603%5C>
                > > .
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
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                DRxDON




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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • DRxDON
                Hey Bill, I m glad that once,...or twice,...or thrice you agree with me. ;-) Of course, as to good and evil , I am speaking here of behavior in relation to
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hey Bill,

                  I'm glad that once,...or twice,...or thrice you agree with me. ;-) Of course, as to "good
                  and evil", I am speaking here of behavior in relation to respect for us as sentient creatures.
                  As for those times where you don't agree with me, I accept the fact that you *can't* agree
                  with me from your position as a "rational scientist". The majority of my posts are merely
                  speculations based upon my own personal analysis of the UFO enigma, with a healthy dose of
                  my own intuiton thrown in. Such speculations have no weight in the realm of science.

                  However, I believe that merely considering such speculations as *possibilities* may help to
                  point science in fruitful directions which it may have not even considered in the first place.
                  I feel that there is always room for metaphysical speculations in extremely arcane areas of
                  scientific endeavor, which the UFO phenomenon in its totality clearly represents. Very few
                  scientists consider sience fiction/fantasy completely useless and innane. That being said,
                  in those areas where you didn't necessarily "agree" with me, I hope that you found at least
                  a fair amount of my speculations worthy of consideration.

                  Thanks,
                  Don


                  Bill Hamilton wrote:
                  >
                  > Don,
                  >
                  > For once I agree with you (or was it twice or three times). This is a balanced argument.
                  > I feel compelled to add that we will judge ETs by their actions and our standards of what
                  > constitutes good and evil. We must realize, of course, relative to survival, what might be
                  > good for ET may not be good for us. For instance, in need of water as their home world
                  > is drying out, they deplete us of our water resources until we cannot survive. Let us hope
                  > they would have an EQ on par with their IQ and negotiate first.
                  >
                  > Bill Hamilton
                  > AstroScience Research
                  > http://www.geocities.com/xplorer2x/
                  > "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible." Fred Hoyle
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: DRxDON
                  > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:14 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                  >
                  > Janet,
                  >
                  > I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging viewpoints
                  > on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a point of
                  > "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is largely in
                  > disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of starting an
                  > argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.
                  >
                  > Now, I would honestly like to know your opinion of something here. Do you really
                  > believe that ALL "visitors" are friendly and benevolent, as Richard Boylan does?
                  > If so, I must state my position on this. I believe that to believe in such a
                  > position is "extremist" and just as "radical" in believeing that ALL "visitors"
                  > are evil and malevolent.
                  >
                  > I believe, like I think you said before, that ETs can be looked at as humans; some
                  > *individuals" are "good" and some are "bad", just as some whole factions of the
                  > human race have the betterment of the race in mind while other factions are just
                  > out for ego glory and power-mongering. Even those who have the betterment of the
                  > human race in mind may be *severely* misguided in believing that the "ends justify
                  > the means". Some of these people may even be blind to some of their own ego-glory
                  > seeking behavior too. I would say that the same could apply to ET races.
                  >
                  > Also, I believe that whole ET races may indeed be caught up into a collective
                  > mentality whereby it may NOT just be "racist generalization" to suggest that an
                  > entire ET race may have particular "designs" with regards to the future of our race.
                  > Of course, it is also not out of the question that such "homogenized" collective
                  > races may not have dissenters of their own.
                  >
                  > The basic point I am trying to make, I guess, is that the question of "good" vs "bad"
                  > ETs is not an easy one to answer.
                  >
                  > Don
                  >
                  > Jahnets wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha
                  > > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
                  > > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
                  > > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in a
                  > > chess game...;-)
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
                  > > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
                  > > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                  > >
                  > > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not
                  > > harass or retaliate.
                  > >
                  > > Jeff
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Jahnets
                  > > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
                  > > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                  > >
                  > > Ok I have a question...
                  > >
                  > > "They shape-shift. To us
                  > > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                  > > > overcoat."
                  > >
                  > > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
                  > > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
                  > > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
                  > > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
                  > > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
                  > > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
                  > > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
                  > > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
                  > > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
                  > > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
                  > > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
                  > > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
                  > > >
                  > > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
                  > > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
                  > > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
                  > > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
                  > > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
                  > > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
                  > > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
                  > > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
                  > > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
                  > > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
                  > > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
                  > > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
                  > > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
                  > > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
                  > > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
                  > > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
                  > > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
                  > > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
                  > > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
                  > > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
                  > > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
                  > > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
                  > > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
                  > > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
                  > > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
                  > > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
                  > > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
                  > > >
                  > > <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
                  > > Nibiru/join>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
                  > > ibiru/join
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
                  > > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
                  > > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
                  > > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
                  > > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
                  > > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
                  > > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
                  > > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
                  > > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
                  > > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
                  > > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
                  > > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
                  > > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
                  > > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
                  > > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
                  > > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
                  > > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
                  > > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
                  > > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
                  > > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
                  > > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
                  > > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
                  > > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
                  > > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
                  > > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
                  > > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
                  > > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
                  > > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
                  > > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
                  > > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
                  > > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
                  > > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
                  > > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
                  > > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
                  > > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
                  > > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
                  > > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
                  > > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
                  > > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
                  > > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
                  > > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
                  > > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
                  > > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
                  > > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
                  > > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
                  > > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
                  > > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
                  > > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
                  > > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
                  > > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
                  > > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
                  > > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
                  > > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
                  > > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
                  > > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
                  > > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
                  > > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
                  > > > threaten people who are communicating information about
                  > > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
                  > > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
                  > > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
                  > > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
                  > > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
                  > > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
                  > > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
                  > > > way.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
                  > > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
                  > > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
                  > > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
                  > > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
                  > > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
                  > > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
                  > > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
                  > > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
                  > > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
                  > > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
                  > > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
                  > > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
                  > > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
                  > > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
                  > > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
                  > > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
                  > > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
                  > > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
                  > > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
                  > > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
                  > > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
                  > > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
                  > > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
                  > > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
                  > > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
                  > > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
                  > > > the book.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
                  > > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
                  > > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
                  > > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
                  > > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
                  > > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
                  > > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
                  > > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
                  > > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
                  > > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
                  > > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
                  > > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
                  > > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
                  > > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
                  > > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
                  > > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
                  > > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
                  > > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
                  > > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
                  > > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
                  > > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
                  > > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
                  > > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
                  > > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
                  > > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
                  > > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
                  > > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
                  > > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
                  > > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
                  > > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
                  > > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
                  > > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
                  > > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
                  > > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
                  > > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
                  > > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
                  > > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
                  > > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
                  > > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
                  > > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
                  > > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
                  > > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
                  > > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
                  > > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
                  > > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
                  > > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
                  > > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
                  > > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
                  > > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
                  > > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
                  > > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
                  > > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
                  > > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
                  > > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
                  > > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
                  > > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
                  > > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
                  > > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
                  > > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
                  > > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
                  > > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
                  > > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
                  > > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
                  > > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
                  > > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
                  > > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
                  > > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
                  > > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
                  > > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
                  > > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
                  > > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
                  > > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
                  > > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
                  > > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
                  > > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                  > > > overcoat.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
                  > > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
                  > > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
                  > > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
                  > > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
                  > > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
                  > > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
                  > > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
                  > > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
                  > > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
                  > > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
                  > > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
                  > > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
                  > > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
                  > > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
                  > > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
                  > > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
                  > > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
                  > > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
                  > > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
                  > > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
                  > > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
                  > > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
                  > > > Herald Examiner."
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
                  > > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
                  > > >
                  > > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
                  > > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
                  > > > People Love Bush
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: Smacko
                  > > >
                  > > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
                  > > > Presence'?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
                  > > > frankly I
                  > > > still don't have a good answer.
                  > > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
                  > > > any sort of "presence."
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
                  > > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
                  > > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
                  > > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
                  > > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
                  > > > witnesses to
                  > > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
                  > > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
                  > > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
                  > > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
                  > > > correct
                  > > > portion of the brain.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
                  > > > Roswell
                  > > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
                  > > > that the
                  > > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
                  > > > "presence."
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
                  > > > absence.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
                  > > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
                  > > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
                  > > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
                  > > > if you
                  > > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
                  > > > FLATLAND?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
                  > > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
                  > > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
                  > > > situation
                  > > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
                  > > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
                  > > > out of
                  > > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
                  > > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
                  > > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
                  > > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
                  > > > some
                  > > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
                  > > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
                  > > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
                  > > > which
                  > > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
                  > > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
                  > > >
                  > > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
                  > > >
                  > > > Jerry E. Smith
                  > > > Author & Lecturer
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
                  > > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
                  > > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
                  > > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
                  > > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
                  > > > cults and
                  > > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
                  > > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
                  > > > where
                  > > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
                  > > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
                  > > > Universal
                  > > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
                  > > 0603\
                  > > >
                  > > <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
                  > > 00603%5C>
                  > > > .
                  > > >
                  > > > __________________________________________________
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                  DRxDON
                • Jahnets
                  Don and Bill, I might as well answer both here... I agree with what Bill said here, and I think I agree with you too Don. I m not really sure what you want
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Don and Bill,

                    I might as well answer both here... I agree with what Bill said here, and I
                    think I agree with you too Don. I'm not really sure what you want from me
                    here as you seem to have answered your own question to me about me...ha ha
                    I am not sure I agree detail to detail with anyone and that includes Boylan.
                    I'm my own person and have had experiences all my life whether you believe
                    me or not and that is where my ideas about aliens have come from. Direct
                    experience. The aliens and entities that I have dealt with have been
                    honorable with me. I have great respect and love for them but I don't fear
                    them. They have hurt my feelings at times but I'm sure I have done the same
                    with them. It has been a process as any relationship is. I have met beings
                    that put out so much energy that humans seem to experience it like (what are
                    they called pherones), or maybe it is just that. They also had nonverbal
                    behavior and were telepathic. I am pretty good at reading even human non
                    verbal behavior no matter how subtle and that may stem from my interactions
                    with Greys. Even when they aren't talking they exhibit nonverbal behavior. I
                    think that picking up on that with my friend Prometheus is what made me
                    realize that they aren't that different in some ways and it opened the door
                    to our understanding each other better. For me anyway the greys are much
                    better at blocking their feelings so you can't read them like the Annunaki.
                    That maybe because their eyes are so different and large and the Annunakis
                    are closer to ours even those with an animals head. The greys eyes are like
                    looking into a dark pool so you think you'll fall in almost. Here is
                    something for you... The nonverbal reactions I see are mostly in their eyes
                    and mind. I guess I'm rambling, you wanted to know if I feel a certain way
                    and I felt like I had to explain why I felt that way... Why... always helps
                    me understand...ha ha

                    As to Icke, I've wondered why he says some of the things he says. Seems he
                    takes a lot of chances if what he said were true as wouldn't you think that
                    might make them angry??? I mean if they are running things like he says they
                    could also make things very difficult if they wanted to...ha ha Personally I
                    haven't dealt with any reptilians other than PC. I don't believe the
                    Annunaki are reptilians either, as it makes no sense. If they made us in
                    their image, then we look like them for the most part, and with the ones I
                    have seen this is true. I believe the beings that inhabit the bodies that
                    are part animal and part human like Anubis and Set are experiencing some
                    animal type qualities and learning from it. I think they can change bodies
                    like we change clothes or maybe not quite that easily but you get my drift.


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Bill Hamilton [mailto:skycom22@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 7:10 AM
                    To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



                    Don,

                    For once I agree with you (or was it twice or three times). This is a
                    balanced argument.
                    I feel compelled to add that we will judge ETs by their actions and our
                    standards of what
                    constitutes good and evil. We must realize, of course, relative to
                    survival, what might be
                    good for ET may not be good for us. For instance, in need of water as their
                    home world
                    is drying out, they deplete us of our water resources until we cannot
                    survive. Let us hope
                    they would have an EQ on par with their IQ and negotiate first.

                    Bill Hamilton
                    AstroScience Research
                    http://www.geocities.com/xplorer2x/
                    "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible."
                    Fred Hoyle

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: DRxDON
                    To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:14 PM
                    Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.


                    Janet,

                    I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging
                    viewpoints
                    on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a
                    point of
                    "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is
                    largely in
                    disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of
                    starting an
                    argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.

                    "bad"
                    ETs is not an easy one to answer.

                    Don


                    Jahnets wrote:
                    >
                    > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha
                    ha
                    > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
                    > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
                    > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent
                    in a
                    > chess game...;-)
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
                    > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                    >
                    > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do
                    not
                    > harass or retaliate.
                    >
                    > Jeff
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Jahnets
                    > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
                    > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                    >
                    > Ok I have a question...
                    >
                    > "They shape-shift. To us
                    > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                    > > overcoat."
                    >
                    > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's
                    the
                    > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
                    > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
                    > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is
                    so
                    > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole
                    those
                    > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
                    > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans
                    are
                    > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it
                    against
                    > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
                    > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
                    > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
                    > >
                    > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
                    > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
                    > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
                    > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
                    > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
                    > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
                    > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
                    > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
                    > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
                    > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
                    > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
                    > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
                    > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
                    > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
                    > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
                    > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
                    > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
                    > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
                    > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
                    > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
                    > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
                    > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
                    > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
                    > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
                    > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
                    > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
                    > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
                    > Nibiru/join>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
                    > ibiru/join
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
                    > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
                    > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
                    > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
                    > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
                    > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
                    > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
                    > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
                    > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
                    > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
                    > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
                    > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
                    > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
                    > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
                    > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
                    > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
                    > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
                    > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
                    > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
                    > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
                    > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
                    > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
                    > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
                    > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
                    > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
                    > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
                    > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
                    > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
                    > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
                    > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
                    > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
                    > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
                    > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
                    > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
                    > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
                    > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
                    > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
                    > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
                    > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
                    > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
                    > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
                    > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
                    > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
                    > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
                    > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
                    > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
                    > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
                    > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
                    > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
                    > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
                    > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
                    > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
                    > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
                    > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
                    > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
                    > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
                    > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
                    > > threaten people who are communicating information about
                    > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
                    > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
                    > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
                    > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
                    > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
                    > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
                    > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
                    > > way.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
                    > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
                    > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
                    > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
                    > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
                    > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
                    > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
                    > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
                    > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
                    > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
                    > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
                    > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
                    > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
                    > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
                    > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
                    > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
                    > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
                    > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
                    > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
                    > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
                    > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
                    > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
                    > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
                    > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
                    > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
                    > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
                    > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
                    > > the book.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
                    > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
                    > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
                    > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
                    > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
                    > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
                    > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
                    > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
                    > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
                    > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
                    > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
                    > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
                    > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
                    > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
                    > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
                    > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
                    > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
                    > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
                    > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
                    > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
                    > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
                    > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
                    > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
                    > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
                    > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
                    > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
                    > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
                    > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
                    > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
                    > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
                    > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
                    > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
                    > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
                    > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
                    > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
                    > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
                    > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
                    > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
                    > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
                    > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
                    > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
                    > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
                    > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
                    > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
                    > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
                    > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
                    > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
                    > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
                    > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
                    > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
                    > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
                    > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
                    > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
                    > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
                    > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
                    > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
                    > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
                    > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
                    > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
                    > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
                    > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
                    > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
                    > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
                    > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
                    > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
                    > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
                    > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
                    > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
                    > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
                    > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
                    > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
                    > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
                    > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
                    > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
                    > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
                    > > overcoat.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
                    > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
                    > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
                    > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
                    > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
                    > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
                    > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
                    > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
                    > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
                    > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
                    > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
                    > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
                    > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
                    > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
                    > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
                    > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
                    > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
                    > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
                    > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
                    > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
                    > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
                    > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
                    > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
                    > > Herald Examiner."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
                    > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
                    > >
                    > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
                    > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
                    > > People Love Bush
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: Smacko
                    > >
                    > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an
                    'Alien
                    > > Presence'?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
                    > > frankly I
                    > > still don't have a good answer.
                    > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much
                    less
                    > > any sort of "presence."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist
                    that
                    > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be
                    sufficient.
                    > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or
                    no
                    > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious
                    bruises,
                    > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
                    > > witnesses to
                    > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks,
                    are
                    > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
                    > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of
                    an
                    > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
                    > > correct
                    > > portion of the brain.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
                    > > Roswell
                    > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
                    > > that the
                    > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
                    > > "presence."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
                    > > absence.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not
                    from
                    > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
                    > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now
                    believes
                    > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
                    > > if you
                    > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
                    > > FLATLAND?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one
                    dimensional
                    > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three
                    dimensional
                    > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
                    > > situation
                    > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the
                    basis
                    > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
                    > > out of
                    > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
                    > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible
                    either.
                    > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It
                    seems
                    > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
                    > > some
                    > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of
                    Destiny
                    > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that
                    are
                    > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
                    > > which
                    > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is
                    correct.
                    > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
                    > >
                    > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
                    > >
                    > > Jerry E. Smith
                    > > Author & Lecturer
                    > >
                    > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
                    > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
                    > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
                    > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals
                    with
                    > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
                    > > cults and
                    > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original
                    'lost
                    > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
                    > > where
                    > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
                    > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
                    > > Universal
                    > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
                    > 0603\
                    > >
                    >
                    <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
                    > 00603%5C>
                    > > .
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
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                  • DRxDON
                    Janet, I won t argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs. I certainly believe that you are telling the truth as you have experienced it. I
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 4, 2004
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                      Janet,

                      I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs. I certainly
                      believe that you are telling the truth as you have experienced it. I believe that
                      *your* truth could be THE truth, meaning that these ETs certainly were benevolent
                      and had no other alterior motives. I also believe that they *could* have had
                      alterior motives and that they were just fooling you into having you think they
                      were generally benevolent to humanity in general, just because they were nice to
                      you. Again, Janet, I am not saying that I believe one of these scenarios over the
                      other; I just don't know, so I am NOT *accusing* you of anything. I, myself, am
                      just a more suspicious person by nature than you, I guess, and therefore I am more
                      suspicious than you on the nature of a lot of ETs' intentions toward us, but NOT
                      nessarily all. I hope you can see that I am being open and honest with you here
                      and accept what you say at face value.

                      I DID NOT "seem to have answered your(my) own question to me about me(you)". Since
                      you and Jeff seemed to agree that "the visitors" were peaceful, I was just curious
                      as to whether you felt this way about ALL visitors or was this just in reference to
                      some or those that Icke talked about.

                      As for Icke, he has some ideas with which I "find commonality". I won't say that I
                      agree, because, like with myself, Icke's ideas are merely speculation, though he
                      promotes them as THE TRUTH. Some of his ideas, namely that ALL Reptilians are evil
                      conspiratorial partners with our corrupt government, I do not *necessarily* accept.
                      Mostly, I do not like Icke's viewpoints precisely because he IS an extremist. He is
                      an extremist first because he FIRMLY *believes* that he KNOWS the "Truth" when these
                      are just his speculations. If he said that "these are my speculations and intuitions,
                      in which I hold a great deal of truth", I wouldn't dismiss him. I always try to preface
                      my own ideas in this way or at least make this clear in my presentations. He is also
                      an extremist because he sees TOTAL "Evil" in his antagonistic ETs and some kind of
                      "angelic" grace and beauty in his "Good Guys". This is a very polarized view that has
                      poisoned most all Western religions. He also seems to flip-flop from one extreme
                      position to another regarding what he "knows"(believes) is going on.

                      Don


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                    • Jahnets
                      Oh Don... I think we agree...lol Yeah Icke says things that I figure would cause him problems in the harassment arena as I get it when I start speaking too
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 4, 2004
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                        Oh Don... I think we agree...lol Yeah Icke says things that I figure would
                        cause him problems in the harassment arena as I get it when I start speaking
                        too clearly. Yet he lives on the Isle of Wight and somewhere I heard that
                        seems to be a major meeting place for reptilians, so it's rather odd...ok...
                        he does have some good information and I agree with some of the stuff he
                        says... Other stuff though like the Annunaki being reptillians I don't agree
                        with. Even if I hadn't talked to some, logic states otherwise...

                        Just for the record I have always questioned my new found friends as I
                        realize it would be simple for them to trick anyone. But really why would
                        they want to trick me? To what end? To me belief or what you believe is very
                        important as to what happens to you. I believe we attract possitive and
                        negative based on what we believe, only the reason most don't notice it is
                        because it isn't instantaneous... It is even different by person like for
                        some they can focus on something and forget about it and it might come to
                        them in three days, others it might be three months, etc. So to try and
                        prove it to someone is almost impossible. What I'm trying to get at here is
                        if you think that because they have the ability to control you, they will,
                        then they probably will if they feel like it. But who's responsibilty is
                        this??? It would be yours for putting the energy(thought) out there. That's
                        not to say that they wouldn't reap the Karma of their actions too, but I'm
                        refering only to your side here ok... So for myself, when I hear these
                        stories I have to wonder what they were thinking or doing to attract that
                        into their life. I tend to look at my responsibility within the
                        situation,for instance when I was laying in the sun in my backyard and
                        daydreaming and wondered to myself if I would ever get to meet the Sidhe...
                        Going to bed and being brought before them. "I Asked for it"... They didn't
                        take me, and in consideration they didn't leave my daughter who was young
                        there at home alone knowing I would worry about her. She was right there at
                        my side. So see, interpretation is the key. They aren't human and we have to
                        be open to the possiblity that there have been gross misinterpretations on
                        both our parts...

                        Now after reading the above, please tell me why you keep saying this:

                        "I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs."

                        ha ha I was taught once that possitives and negatives cancel each other out
                        in your mind so that sentence really comes out,"I argue with you about your
                        benevolent encounters with ET's." lol

                        You don't have to agree with me Don, it's nice if we have some things we
                        agree on so we have stuff to discuss. OK... I realise I get into depth on
                        some stuff and really look at the details sometimes, but I'm really not
                        trying to force you to think the same way as me, rather I am trying to find
                        out if you and I are on the same wave length in regard to whatever we are
                        discussing. You or someone else will say something that doesn't quite click
                        but is close so I try to clarify it. I think we agree on quite a bit really,
                        it's just nuances that we disagree on...

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:09 PM
                        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



                        Janet,

                        I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs. I
                        certainly
                        believe that you are telling the truth as you have experienced it. I
                        believe that
                        *your* truth could be THE truth, meaning that these ETs certainly were
                        benevolent
                        and had no other alterior motives. I also believe that they *could* have
                        had
                        alterior motives and that they were just fooling you into having you think
                        they
                        were generally benevolent to humanity in general, just because they were
                        nice to
                        you. Again, Janet, I am not saying that I believe one of these scenarios
                        over the
                        other; I just don't know, so I am NOT *accusing* you of anything. I,
                        myself, am
                        just a more suspicious person by nature than you, I guess, and therefore I
                        am more
                        suspicious than you on the nature of a lot of ETs' intentions toward us, but
                        NOT
                        nessarily all. I hope you can see that I am being open and honest with you
                        here
                        and accept what you say at face value.

                        I DID NOT "seem to have answered your(my) own question to me about me(you)".
                        Since
                        you and Jeff seemed to agree that "the visitors" were peaceful, I was just
                        curious
                        as to whether you felt this way about ALL visitors or was this just in
                        reference to
                        some or those that Icke talked about.

                        As for Icke, he has some ideas with which I "find commonality". I won't say
                        that I
                        agree, because, like with myself, Icke's ideas are merely speculation,
                        though he
                        promotes them as THE TRUTH. Some of his ideas, namely that ALL Reptilians
                        are evil
                        conspiratorial partners with our corrupt government, I do not *necessarily*
                        accept.
                        Mostly, I do not like Icke's viewpoints precisely because he IS an
                        extremist. He is
                        an extremist first because he FIRMLY *believes* that he KNOWS the "Truth"
                        when these
                        are just his speculations. If he said that "these are my speculations and
                        intuitions,
                        in which I hold a great deal of truth", I wouldn't dismiss him. I always
                        try to preface
                        my own ideas in this way or at least make this clear in my presentations.
                        He is also
                        an extremist because he sees TOTAL "Evil" in his antagonistic ETs and some
                        kind of
                        "angelic" grace and beauty in his "Good Guys". This is a very polarized
                        view that has
                        poisoned most all Western religions. He also seems to flip-flop from one
                        extreme
                        position to another regarding what he "knows"(believes) is going on.

                        Don


                        --
                        What If --------------------------?
                        DRxDON




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                      • DRxDON
                        ... Janet, There is no positive/negative reversal in the statement I won t argue with you , unless by that you mean that I have some hidden agenda or
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 6, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jahnets wrote:

                          > Now after reading the above, please tell me why you keep saying this:
                          >
                          > "I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs."
                          >
                          > ha ha I was taught once that possitives and negatives cancel each other out
                          > in your mind so that sentence really comes out,"I argue with you about your
                          > benevolent encounters with ET's." lol

                          Janet,

                          There is no positive/negative reversal in the statement "I won't argue with you",
                          unless by that you mean that I have some "hidden agenda" or "issue" concerning your
                          encounters. I don't know where you're getting that "arguing" statement from. ;-)
                          The positive/negative reversal of the ENTIRE above statement would actually be,
                          "I WILL argue about your NEGATIVE encounters with ETs"! LOL But since you
                          say you have never had a negative encounter how can I argue with you at all? LOL

                          The only reason I put that statement in there often is because on the P4C list
                          we had some VERY nasty arguments, if you remember, when I was talking about my
                          perception of the action of "negative greys" and I suggested once that perhaps
                          your earliest encounter was negative because you said it hurt. You got VERY
                          angry and defended your position. Since then, I just don't bring up the subject
                          with you, although I DO try to fit your encounter stories into my scenario; I
                          just don't talk about it here with you. I rarely post or ask questions here
                          anyway from anyone. I usually don't even get into reading ANYBODY's discussions
                          here, unless there is something specific that interests me. LOL To tell the
                          truth, I mainly use this list for the info on current UFO, space and conspiracy
                          news.

                          I was, and still am, curious about your "Egyptian-type" encounters, though. If
                          you ever have anymore, I would definitely be interested in hearing about them.


                          > You don't have to agree with me Don, it's nice if we have some things we
                          > agree on so we have stuff to discuss. OK... I realise I get into depth on
                          > some stuff and really look at the details sometimes, but I'm really not
                          > trying to force you to think the same way as me, rather I am trying to find
                          > out if you and I are on the same wave length in regard to whatever we are
                          > discussing. You or someone else will say something that doesn't quite click
                          > but is close so I try to clarify it. I think we agree on quite a bit really,
                          > it's just nuances that we disagree on...

                          I think we agree some on spiritual/metaphysical things and other "far out" stuff. ;-)
                          I think, though, that the "nuances" of which you speak concern areas where you
                          are more certain about some things and where I am more "cautious/uncertain". You
                          certainly have had much more direct contact experiences than I have, so that aspect
                          would play a BIG role in itself.

                          Don

                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:09 PM
                          > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                          >
                          > Janet,
                          >
                          > I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs. I
                          > certainly
                          > believe that you are telling the truth as you have experienced it. I
                          > believe that
                          > *your* truth could be THE truth, meaning that these ETs certainly were
                          > benevolent
                          > and had no other alterior motives. I also believe that they *could* have
                          > had
                          > alterior motives and that they were just fooling you into having you think
                          > they
                          > were generally benevolent to humanity in general, just because they were
                          > nice to
                          > you. Again, Janet, I am not saying that I believe one of these scenarios
                          > over the
                          > other; I just don't know, so I am NOT *accusing* you of anything. I,
                          > myself, am
                          > just a more suspicious person by nature than you, I guess, and therefore I
                          > am more
                          > suspicious than you on the nature of a lot of ETs' intentions toward us, but
                          > NOT
                          > nessarily all. I hope you can see that I am being open and honest with you
                          > here
                          > and accept what you say at face value.
                          >
                          > I DID NOT "seem to have answered your(my) own question to me about me(you)".
                          > Since
                          > you and Jeff seemed to agree that "the visitors" were peaceful, I was just
                          > curious
                          > as to whether you felt this way about ALL visitors or was this just in
                          > reference to
                          > some or those that Icke talked about.
                          >
                          > As for Icke, he has some ideas with which I "find commonality". I won't say
                          > that I
                          > agree, because, like with myself, Icke's ideas are merely speculation,
                          > though he
                          > promotes them as THE TRUTH. Some of his ideas, namely that ALL Reptilians
                          > are evil
                          > conspiratorial partners with our corrupt government, I do not *necessarily*
                          > accept.
                          > Mostly, I do not like Icke's viewpoints precisely because he IS an
                          > extremist. He is
                          > an extremist first because he FIRMLY *believes* that he KNOWS the "Truth"
                          > when these
                          > are just his speculations. If he said that "these are my speculations and
                          > intuitions,
                          > in which I hold a great deal of truth", I wouldn't dismiss him. I always
                          > try to preface
                          > my own ideas in this way or at least make this clear in my presentations.
                          > He is also
                          > an extremist because he sees TOTAL "Evil" in his antagonistic ETs and some
                          > kind of
                          > "angelic" grace and beauty in his "Good Guys". This is a very polarized
                          > view that has
                          > poisoned most all Western religions. He also seems to flip-flop from one
                          > extreme
                          > position to another regarding what he "knows"(believes) is going on.
                          >
                          > Don
                          >
                          > --
                          > What If --------------------------?
                          > DRxDON
                          >
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                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufodiscussion/
                          >
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                        • Jahnets
                          Don, The possitive and negative thing I got from a PHD in language. The words with the in them actually cancel themselves out in your mind. So will is
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 6, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Don,
                            The possitive and negative thing I got from a PHD in language. The words
                            with the " ' " in them actually cancel themselves out in your mind. So
                            "will" is possitive and "not" is negative and cancel themselves out. It is
                            like computer language being used incorrectly so the computer spits out what
                            it thinks you want because you have not asked correctly. There did I explain
                            that better?

                            Although I'm not sure what I said "hurt", especially about my first
                            encounter, I have a feeling it's a misinterpretation. I wasn't hurt
                            physically although I was scared on my first encounter as I was 5. But then
                            my fear was a misinterpretation too because I was too young to understand
                            the strangers. Prometheus has been my friend for a long time. I have a
                            picture somewhere around that I drew of him as I have still not seen a good
                            one anywhere else. I thought I would frame it and put it next to the one
                            done by Parrish with a little note below saying, "Prometheus then" and
                            "Prometheus Now". ha ha



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 2:33 AM
                            To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.



                            Jahnets wrote:

                            > Now after reading the above, please tell me why you keep saying this:
                            >
                            > "I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs."
                            >
                            > ha ha I was taught once that possitives and negatives cancel each other
                            out
                            > in your mind so that sentence really comes out,"I argue with you about
                            your
                            > benevolent encounters with ET's." lol

                            Janet,

                            There is no positive/negative reversal in the statement "I won't argue with
                            you",
                            unless by that you mean that I have some "hidden agenda" or "issue"
                            concerning your
                            encounters. I don't know where you're getting that "arguing" statement
                            from. ;-)
                            The positive/negative reversal of the ENTIRE above statement would actually
                            be,
                            "I WILL argue about your NEGATIVE encounters with ETs"! LOL But since you
                            say you have never had a negative encounter how can I argue with you at all?
                            LOL

                            The only reason I put that statement in there often is because on the P4C
                            list
                            we had some VERY nasty arguments, if you remember, when I was talking about
                            my
                            perception of the action of "negative greys" and I suggested once that
                            perhaps
                            your earliest encounter was negative because you said it hurt. You got VERY
                            angry and defended your position. Since then, I just don't bring up the
                            subject
                            with you, although I DO try to fit your encounter stories into my scenario;
                            I
                            just don't talk about it here with you. I rarely post or ask questions here
                            anyway from anyone. I usually don't even get into reading ANYBODY's
                            discussions
                            here, unless there is something specific that interests me. LOL To tell
                            the
                            truth, I mainly use this list for the info on current UFO, space and
                            conspiracy
                            news.

                            I was, and still am, curious about your "Egyptian-type" encounters, though.
                            If
                            you ever have anymore, I would definitely be interested in hearing about
                            them.


                            > You don't have to agree with me Don, it's nice if we have some things we
                            > agree on so we have stuff to discuss. OK... I realise I get into depth on
                            > some stuff and really look at the details sometimes, but I'm really not
                            > trying to force you to think the same way as me, rather I am trying to
                            find
                            > out if you and I are on the same wave length in regard to whatever we are
                            > discussing. You or someone else will say something that doesn't quite
                            click
                            > but is close so I try to clarify it. I think we agree on quite a bit
                            really,
                            > it's just nuances that we disagree on...

                            I think we agree some on spiritual/metaphysical things and other "far out"
                            stuff. ;-)
                            I think, though, that the "nuances" of which you speak concern areas where
                            you
                            are more certain about some things and where I am more "cautious/uncertain".
                            You
                            certainly have had much more direct contact experiences than I have, so that
                            aspect
                            would play a BIG role in itself.

                            Don

                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: DRxDON [mailto:drxdon@...]
                            > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 3:09 PM
                            > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
                            >
                            > Janet,
                            >
                            > I won't argue with you about your benevolent encounters with ETs. I
                            > certainly
                            > believe that you are telling the truth as you have experienced it. I
                            > believe that
                            > *your* truth could be THE truth, meaning that these ETs certainly were
                            > benevolent
                            > and had no other alterior motives. I also believe that they *could* have
                            > had
                            > alterior motives and that they were just fooling you into having you think
                            > they
                            > were generally benevolent to humanity in general, just because they were
                            > nice to
                            > you. Again, Janet, I am not saying that I believe one of these scenarios
                            > over the
                            > other; I just don't know, so I am NOT *accusing* you of anything. I,
                            > myself, am
                            > just a more suspicious person by nature than you, I guess, and therefore I
                            > am more
                            > suspicious than you on the nature of a lot of ETs' intentions toward us,
                            but
                            > NOT
                            > nessarily all. I hope you can see that I am being open and honest with
                            you
                            > here
                            > and accept what you say at face value.
                            >
                            > I DID NOT "seem to have answered your(my) own question to me about
                            me(you)".
                            > Since
                            > you and Jeff seemed to agree that "the visitors" were peaceful, I was just
                            > curious
                            > as to whether you felt this way about ALL visitors or was this just in
                            > reference to
                            > some or those that Icke talked about.
                            >
                            > As for Icke, he has some ideas with which I "find commonality". I won't
                            say
                            > that I
                            > agree, because, like with myself, Icke's ideas are merely speculation,
                            > though he
                            > promotes them as THE TRUTH. Some of his ideas, namely that ALL Reptilians
                            > are evil
                            > conspiratorial partners with our corrupt government, I do not
                            *necessarily*
                            > accept.
                            > Mostly, I do not like Icke's viewpoints precisely because he IS an
                            > extremist. He is
                            > an extremist first because he FIRMLY *believes* that he KNOWS the "Truth"
                            > when these
                            > are just his speculations. If he said that "these are my speculations and
                            > intuitions,
                            > in which I hold a great deal of truth", I wouldn't dismiss him. I always
                            > try to preface
                            > my own ideas in this way or at least make this clear in my presentations.
                            > He is also
                            > an extremist because he sees TOTAL "Evil" in his antagonistic ETs and some
                            > kind of
                            > "angelic" grace and beauty in his "Good Guys". This is a very polarized
                            > view that has
                            > poisoned most all Western religions. He also seems to flip-flop from one
                            > extreme
                            > position to another regarding what he "knows"(believes) is going on.
                            >
                            > Don
                            >
                            > --
                            > What If --------------------------?
                            > DRxDON
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > [Image]
                            >
                            > Get unlimited calls to
                            >
                            > U.S./Canada
                            >
                            > [Image]
                            >
                            >
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                            -------------------------------------------
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufodiscussion/
                            >
                            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > ufodiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
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