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The Pandora Box of Concern

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  • dexxxaa
    To Regan: I believe the below is but one example of Dan Burisch s concern s about the opening of the Pandora box. His wanting to alert the world to her pending
    Message 1 of 102 , Aug 22, 2004
      To Regan:
      I believe the below is but one example of Dan Burisch's concern's
      about the opening of the Pandora box. His wanting to alert the world
      to her pending dangers. Another would be the willing use of bio-
      chemical weapons. The irreparable damage to our genetics was also
      pointed out by Lya, female ET from Andromeda, to be of major concern.
      She spoke of the 'law of attraction' and our surface radioactivity
      and other pollution contamination would bring further danger to earth
      by way of causing radioactive space dust clouds, etc,.to seek us out
      and overwhelm us in just a matter of a few years. Back in the 70's,
      Betty Andreasson's, ET Watchers, told her in our very near future our
      race would lose it's reproductive ability due to the contaminating
      pollution's in our world. And the lists goes on.
      ***********************

      The article reads.

      A death sentence here and abroad
      “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns
      in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger, quoted in “Kiss the Boys
      Goodbye: How the United States Betrayed Its Own POW’s in Vietnam”

      Vietnam was a chemical war for oil, permanently contaminating
      large regions and countries downriver with Agent Orange, and
      environmentally the most devastating war in world history. But since
      1991, the U.S. has staged four nuclear wars using depleted uranium
      weaponry, which, like Agent Orange, meets the U.S. government
      definition of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Vast regions in the Middle
      East and Central Asia have been permanently contaminated with
      radiation.

      And what about our soldiers? Terry Jemison of the Department of
      Veterans Affairs reported this week to the American Free Press that
      “Gulf-era veterans” now on medical disability since 1991 number
      518,739, with only 7,035 reported wounded in Iraq in that same 14-
      year period.

      This week the American Free Press dropped a “dirty bomb” on
      the Pentagon by reporting that eight out of 20 men who served in one
      unit in the 2003 U.S. military offensive in Iraq now have
      malignancies. That means that 40 percent of the soldiers in that unit
      have developed malignancies in just 16 months.

      Since these soldiers were exposed to vaccines and depleted
      uranium (DU) only, this is strong evidence for researchers and
      scientists working on this issue, that DU is the definitive cause of
      Gulf War Syndrome. Vaccines are not known to cause cancer. One of the
      first published researchers on Gulf War Syndrome, who also served in
      1991 in Iraq, Dr. Andras Korényi-Both, is in agreement with Barbara
      Goodno from the Department of Defense’s Deployment Health Support
      Directorate, that in this war soldiers were not exposed to chemicals,
      pesticides, bioagents or other suspect causes this time to confuse
      the issue.

      This powerful new evidence is blowing holes in the cover-up
      perpetrated by the Pentagon and three presidential administrations
      ever since DU was first used in 1991 in the Persian Gulf War.
      Fourteen years after the introduction of DU on the battlefield in
      1991, the long-term effects have revealed that DU is a death sentence
      and very nasty stuff.

      Scientists studying the biological effects of uranium in the
      1960s reported that it targets the DNA. Marion Fulk, a nuclear
      physical chemist retired from the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab and
      formerly involved with the Manhattan Project, interprets the new and
      rapid malignancies in soldiers from the 2003 war as “spectacular
      … and a matter of concern.”

      This evidence shows that of the three effects which DU has on
      biological systems - radiation, chemical and particulate â€" the
      particulate effect from nano-size particles is the most dominant one
      immediately after exposure and targets the Master Code in the DNA.
      This is bad news, but it explains why DU causes a myriad of diseases
      which are difficult to define.

      In simple words, DU “trashes the body.” When asked if the
      main purpose for using it was for destroying things and killing
      people, Fulk was more specific: “I would say that it is the perfect
      weapon for killing lots of people.”

      Soldiers developing malignancies so quickly since 2003 can be
      expected to develop multiple cancers from independent causes. This
      phenomenon has been reported by doctors in hospitals treating
      civilians following NATO bombing with DU in Yugoslavia in 1998-1999
      and the U.S. military invasion of Iraq using DU for the first time in
      1991. Medical experts report that this phenomenon of multiple
      malignancies from unrelated causes has been unknown until now and is
      a new syndrome associated with internal DU exposure.

      Just 467 U.S. personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian
      Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War
      I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent
      medical disability. This astounding number of disabled vets means
      that a decade later, 56 percent of those soldiers who served now have
      medical problems.

      The number of disabled vets reported up to 2000 has been
      increasing by 43,000 every year. Brad Flohr of the Department of
      Veterans Affairs told American Free Press that he believes there are
      more disabled vets now than even after World War II.

      They brought it home
      Not only were soldiers exposed to DU on and off the battlefields,
      but they brought it home. DU in the semen of soldiers internally
      contaminated their wives, partners and girlfriends. Tragically, some
      women in their 20s and 30s who were sexual partners of exposed
      soldiers developed endometriosis and were forced to have
      hysterectomies because of health problems.

      In a group of 251 soldiers from a study group in Mississippi who
      had all had normal babies before the Gulf War, 67 percent of their
      post-war babies were born with severe birth defects. They were born
      with missing legs, arms, organs or eyes or had immune system and
      blood diseases. In some veterans’ families now, the only normal or
      healthy members of the family are the children born before the war.

      The Department of Veterans Affairs has stated that they do not
      keep records of birth defects occurring in families of veterans.

      How did they hide it?
      Before a new weapons system can be used, it must be fully tested.
      The blueprint for depleted uranium weapons is a 1943 declassified
      document from the Manhattan Project.

      Harvard President and physicist James B. Conant, who developed
      poison gas in World War I, was brought into the Manhattan Project by
      the father of presidential candidate John Kerry. Kerry’s father
      served at a high level in the Manhattan Project and was a CIA agent.

      Conant was chair of the S-1 Poison Gas Committee, which
      recommended developing poison gas weapons from the radioactive trash
      of the atomic bomb project in World War II. At that time, it was
      known that radioactive materials dispersed in bombs from the air,
      from land vehicles or on the battlefield produced very fine
      radioactive dust which would penetrate all protective clothing, any
      gas mask or filter or the skin. By contaminating the lungs and blood,
      it could kill or cause illness very quickly.

      They also recommended it as a permanent terrain contaminant,
      which could be used to destroy populations by contaminating water
      supplies and agricultural land with the radioactive dust.

      The first DU weapons system was developed for the Navy in 1968,
      and DU weapons were given to and used by Israel in 1973 under U.S.
      supervision in the Yom Kippur war against the Arabs.

      The Phalanx weapons system, using DU, was tested on the USS
      Bigelow out of Hunters Point Naval Shipyard in 1977, and DU weapons
      have been sold by the U.S. to 29 countries.

      Military research report summaries detail the testing of DU from
      1974-1999 at military testing grounds, bombing and gunnery ranges and
      at civilian labs under contract. Today 42 states are contaminated
      with DU from manufacture, testing and deployment.

      Women living around these facilities have reported increases in
      endometriosis, birth defects in babies, leukemia in children and
      cancers and other diseases in adults. Thousands of tons of DU weapons
      tested for decades by the Navy on four bombing and gunnery ranges
      around Fallon, Nevada, is no doubt the cause of the fastest growing
      leukemia cluster in the U.S. over the past decade. The military
      denies that DU is the cause.

      The medical profession has been active in the cover-up - just as
      they were in hiding the effects from the American public - of low
      level radiation from atmospheric testing and nuclear power plants. A
      medical doctor in Northern California reported being trained by the
      Pentagon with other doctors, months before the 2003 war started, to
      diagnose and treat soldiers returning from the 2003 war for mental
      problems only.

      Medical professionals in hospitals and facilities treating
      returning soldiers were threatened with $10,000 fines if they talked
      about the soldiers or their medical problems. They were also
      threatened with jail.

      Reporters have also been prevented access to more than 14,000
      medically evacuated soldiers flown nightly since the 2003 war in C-
      150s from Germany who are brought to Walter Reed Hospital near
      Washington, D.C.

      Dr. Robert Gould, former president of the Bay Area chapter of
      Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR), has contacted three
      medical doctors since February 2004, after I had been invited to
      speak about DU. Dr. Katharine Thomasson, president of the Oregon
      chapter of the PSR, informed me that Dr. Gould had contacted her and
      tried to convince her to cancel her invitation for me to speak about
      DU at Portland State University on April 12. Although I was able to
      do a presentation, Dr. Thomasson told me I could only talk about DU
      in Oregon “and nothing overseas … nothing political.”

      Dr. Gould also contacted and discouraged Dr. Ross Wilcox in
      Toronto, Canada, from inviting me to speak to Physicians for Global
      Survival (PGS), the Canadian equivalent of PSR, several months later.
      When that didn’t work, he contacted Dr. Allan Connoly, the Canadian
      national president of PGS, who was able to cancel my invitation and
      nearly succeeded in preventing Dr. Wilcox, his own member, from
      showing photos and presenting details on civilians suffering from DU
      exposure and cancer provided to him by doctors in southern Iraq.

      Dr. Janette Sherman, a former and long-standing member of PSR,
      reported that she finally quit some time after being invited to lunch
      by a new PSR executive administrator. After the woman had pumped Dr.
      Sherman for information all through lunch about her position on key
      issues, the woman informed Dr. Sherman that her last job had been
      with the CIA.

      How was the truth about DU hidden from military personnel serving
      in successive DU wars? Before his tragic death, Sen. Paul Wellstone
      informed Joyce Riley, R.N., B.S.N., executive director of the
      American Gulf War Veterans Association, that 95 percent of Gulf War
      veterans had been recycled out of the military by 1995. Any of those
      continuing in military service were isolated from each other,
      preventing critical information being transferred to new troops. The
      “next DU war” had already been planned, and those planning it
      wanted “no skunk at the garden party.”

      The US has a dirty (DU) little (CIA) secret
      A new book just published at the American Free Press by Michael
      Collins Piper, “The High Priests of War: The Secret History of How
      America’s Neo-Conservative Trotskyites Came to Power and
      Orchestrated the War Against Iraq as the First Step in Their Drive
      for Global Empire,” details the early plans for a war against the
      Arab world by Henry Kissinger and the neo-cons in the late 1960s and
      early 1970s. That just happens to coincide with getting the DU
      “show on the road” and the oil crisis in the Middle East, which
      caused concern not only to President Nixon. The British had been
      plotting and scheming for control of the oil in Iraq for decades
      since first using poison gas on the Iraqis and Kurds in 1912.

      The book details the creation of the neo-cons by their
      “godfather” and Trotsky lover Irving Kristol, who pushed for a
      “war against terrorism” long before 9/11 and was lavishly funded
      for years by the CIA. His son, William Kristol, is one of the most
      influential men in the United States.

      Both are public relations men for the Israeli lobby’s neo-
      conservative network, with strong ties to Rupert Murdoch. Kissinger
      also has ties to this network and the Carlyle Group, who, one could
      say, have facilitated these omnicidal wars beginning from the time
      former President Bush took office. It would be easy to say that we
      are recycling World Wars I and II, with the same faces.

      When I asked Vietnam Special Ops Green Beret Capt. John McCarthy,
      who could have devised this omnicidal plan to use DU to destroy the
      genetic code and genetic future of large populations of Arabs and
      Moslems in the Middle East and Central Asia - just coincidentally the
      areas where most of the world’s oil deposits are located - he
      replied: “It has all the handprints of Henry Kissinger.”

      In Zbignew Brzezinski’s book “The Grand Chessboard: American
      Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives,” the map of the Eurasian
      chessboard includes four regions strategic to U.S. foreign policy.
      The “South” region corresponds precisely to the regions now
      contaminated permanently with radiation from U.S. bombs, missiles and
      bullets made with thousands of tons of DU.

      A Japanese professor, Dr. K. Yagasaki, has calculated that 800
      tons of DU is the atomicity equivalent of 83,000 Nagasaki bombs. The
      U.S. has used more DU since 1991 than the atomicity equivalent of
      400,000 Nagasaki bombs. Four nuclear wars indeed, and 10 times the
      amount of radiation released into the atmosphere from atmospheric
      testing!

      No wonder our soldiers, their families and the people of the
      Middle East, Yugoslavia and Central Asia are sick. But as Henry
      Kissinger said after Vietnam when our soldiers came home ill from
      Agent Orange, “Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used
      for foreign policy.”

      Unfortunately, more and more of those soldiers are men and women
      with brown skin. And unfortunately, the DU radioactive dust will be
      carried around the world and deposited in our environments just as
      the “smog of war” from the 1991 Gulf War was found in deposits in
      South America, the Himalayas and Hawaii.

      In June 2003, the World Health Organization announced in a press
      release that global cancer rates will increase 50 percent by 2020.
      What else do they know that they aren’t telling us? I know that
      depleted uranium is a death sentence … for all of us. We will all
      die in silent ways.

      To learn more:
      Sources used in this story that readers are encouraged to
      consult:

      American Free Press four-part series on DU by Christopher Bollyn.
      Part I: “Depleted Uranium: U.S. Commits War Crime Against Iraq,
      Humanity,”; Part II: “Cancer Epidemic Caused by U.S. WMD: MD Says
      Depleted Uranium Definitively Linked,”

      August 2004 World Affairs Journal. Leuren Moret: “Depleted
      Uranium: The Trojan Horse of Nuclear War,”

      August 2004 Coastal Post Online. Carol Sterrit: “Marin Depleted
      Uranium Resolution Heats Up â€" GI’s Will Come Home To A Slow
      Death,”

      World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference, Hamburg, Germany,
      October 16-19, 2004

      International Criminal Tribunal for Afghanistan. Written opinion
      of Judge Niloufer Baghwat

      “Discounted Casualties: The Human Cost of Nuclear War” by
      Akira Tashiro, foreword by Leuren Moret

      ----------

      Leuren Moret is a geoscientist who has worked around the world on
      radiation issues, educating citizens, the media, members of
      parliaments and Congress and other officials. She became a
      whistleblower in 1991 at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab after
      experiencing major science fraud on the Yucca Mountain Project. An
      environmental commissioner in the City of Berkeley, she can be
      reached at leurenmoret@....
    • vgambino1@cox.net
      ... [response part 2] ... me and insist on creating such discord I meant no offense and do not wish to bandy insults with you. Please choose another as I will
      Message 102 of 102 , Sep 6, 2004
        Vince, I am truly sorry that you see everything I say as telling you that
        you
        are inferior. I am really not. I do not think that my mind is up to par with
        theirs either and I have come a long way since I began. I have been trying
        to figure this stuff out for 32 years and I have figured out some things. If
        I hadn't I'd be pretty slow in that amount of time... I have also made quite
        a few friends in the process. People learn in different ways and I think
        some people need hands on contact to even believe.

        V: I pulled the 4 statements you made from your answer to keith as
        an example of why I made my statements. The first one suggests we
        are not able to make contact as we are inferior or deficient in our
        capacities.

        J:No I said no such thing, You again have taken it personally when I was
        discussing
        mind power of the greys and yes what I have experienced and others until
        they got used to it. Even Burish mentioned something of it which was one
        reason I was reading his stuff as "it" for me pointed to first hand
        experience... In fact it took me some time to deal with it myself. You are
        both speaking as if you have never experienced it to me, am I wrong??? This
        however doesn't mean that you can't or won't, neither does it mean that you
        can't or won't learn telepathic communication.

        V:Your second and third statement combine to say you have
        experienced this and thus have a greater understanding than the
        rest of us who have never been abducted or encountered these
        beings in our lives.

        J: Thus??? So to you, because I have experienced it and you haven't
        I have greater experience... Yes I would say that is generally true...
        However most things in life are up to interpretation and I could just as
        easily interpret them wrong even though I have had more experience than you.
        This is why I usually state "I Think". Am I allowed to think and have an
        opinion
        based on my experiences Vern???

        V:You may be possessed of firsthand knowledge about these beings.
        This does not mean that you know all the truth. You can’t even be
        sure that what you have experienced is not just a construct of your
        own subconscious being manipulated to reinforce a false nature of
        these beings that they wish you to believe.

        J:No, I don't know all the truth Vern. Oh Really? So you are saying
        that I don't know my own mind??? Tell me. is it because I have experienced
        it
        that I don't know my own mind do you think? Want to buy an island???

        V:Still you exhibit this reaction every time you are confronted as do I.
        This could also be a reason for their subterfuge and lack of
        forthright interaction wit us.

        J: Vince you don't know me and you don't know what I can or can't do...
        Please do not
        include me in what you feel you can do... I have on numerous occasions
        overcome the Flight and Fight syndrome... So just because you feel you can't
        doesn't mean others can't learn better...

        V:Jahnets Please understand that all I or anyone else have is their own
        world and reality.
        J: True...
        V:I can not have yours and you can not have mine.I have not lived your
        life and experienced what you have.

        J: Yet you keep trying to tell me what I am capable of based on what you are
        capable of or what others think they are capable of...


        V:I have not lived your life and experienced what you have. I only have my
        own experience. I was not taught by the same teachers as you and the people
        who
        influenced me were mine alone and you can not relate to them in the
        way I do. Our entire lives are individual and distinct to each and every
        one of us.
        J: So are you saying we should stop trying to communicate because you are on
        a different path??? Or is it possible to take the experiences of another and
        learn
        from them??? Doesn't mean you have to agree with them...

        Yes this IS a problem and causes most of the contention you have
        experienced in this group.

        J: This is the cause of most of the dissension in the world, not just my
        life or within this group... Yet you say this as if it's all my problem...

        V:WE are all distinct individuals. We can not live your life and
        understand your world in any other way than as a comparison to our
        own.

        J: Exactly... Like I said you will not believe anyone unless it sounds right
        to
        you regardless of what actually happened, so you need to experience it
        yourself...;-)








        -----Original Message-----
        From: vgambino1@... [mailto:vgambino1@...]
        Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 12:43 PM
        To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: RE: [ufodiscussion] The Pandora Box of Concern [response
        part 2]


        >
        > From: <vgambino1@...>
        > Date: 2004/09/05 Sun PM 07:28:35 EDT
        > To: <ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: Re: RE: [ufodiscussion] The Pandora Box of Concern
        [response part 2]
        >
        > Hi Jahnets
        I included the comments made from the previous post so we could
        identify where I found the points I spoke to.

        3. ETs seek to obtain materials and social knowledge
        from the population, but must do this secretly knowing
        these will not be provided willingly with full consent
        by the population.

        V: I think you got this one right keith. they are sampling us and our
        cultural development and using this information to promote their own
        agenda. If we understood nothing else this would be the most telling
        of what their purpose is.

        Has nothing to do with "knowing" they won't provide them normal
        information. I think it has more to do with peoples minds not being
        able to handle the high rise in energy to communicate with them. Just
        as Burish told of the J-Rod grabbing him and forcing a opening in his
        mind for him so he would be able to understand and communicate
        on a better level with them. I guess you have never met up with one
        face to face and experienced this?
        Sorry I have been reading what you guys are posting and to me it
        seems as though some of you haven't had the experience or you
        wouldn't think the way you do.
        You can't come into contact with that higher energy and feel so
        utterly threatened unless your mind hasn't been opened to the
        contact. Then you would experience it like a short circuit of your
        nerves and be fearful of it. This is one reason it is so important to
        meditate, as it helps stregthen the nervous system and gets you
        used to higher energy a little at a time.




        #1. I think it has more to do with peoples minds not being
        able to handle the high rise in energy to communicate with them.

        2. I guess you have never met up with one face to face and
        experienced this?
        3. it seems as though some of you haven't had the experience or you
        wouldn't think the way you do.

        4. This is one reason it is so important to meditate, as it helps
        stregthen the nervous system and gets you used to higher energy a
        little at a time.

        J: No It isn't a veiled attempt to tell you that you are not good
        enough...
        Nor am I a religious zealot, if anything I am more spiritual by nature.
        Vern, I am not as eloquent as others speaking and I am very blunt.
        I tell it the way I see it.I am not trying to convince any of you... This
        is
        simply my opinion based on my experiences with many, and I repeat
        many
        other beings.... I don't give a flying f if you believe me or not, ok...
        You can believe anything you want. The only reason I have been
        discussing this is because Keith seemed interested in what I had
        experienced. Maybe he wanted a good laugh,what ever...
         
        V: I pulled the 4 statements you made from your answer to keith as
        an example of why I made my statements. The first one suggests we
        are not able to make contact as we are inferior or deficient in our
        capacities.
        Your second and third statement combine to say you have
        experienced this and thus have a greater understanding than the
        rest of us who have never been abducted or encountered these
        beings in our lives.
        You may be possessed of firsthand knowledge about these beings.
        This does not mean that you know all the truth. You can’t even be
        sure that what you have experienced is not just a construct of your
        own subconscious being manipulated to reinforce a false nature of
        these beings that they wish you to believe.


        J:Oh really... Only to your world??? This may be a problem...

        Jahnets Please understand that all I or anyone else have is their own
        world and reality.
        I can not have yours and you can not have mine. I have not lived your
        life and experienced what you have. I only have my own experience. I
        was not taught by the same teachers as you and the people who
        influenced me were mine alone and you can not relate to them in the
        way I do. Our entire lives are individual and distinct to each and every
        one of us.
        Yes this IS a problem and causes most of the contention you have
        experienced in this group.
        WE are all distinct individuals. We can not live your life and
        understand your world in any other way than as a comparison to our
        own.

        J:Why don't you try to contact them yourself and have your own
        experience then you can judge for yourself? 
        If you put the thought out there in meditation or go up on the astral
        plane and think it, I'm sure you would get a response...
        I'm not being a smart ass here. I just think that is the only way you
        will believe and understand some of this.


        AS I said in previous comments I have made to this group I have
        attempted this and do believe that my mind is connected to a realm
        where information is being directed to me and experience many
        instances of what appears to me to be psychic manipulation. I can
        not say this is a benefit to me only that it is occurring and I am just
        as influenced in my way as you were.

        J: Vern, I may be wrong but I think what you are experiencing may be your
        inner self.
        This frequently feels like being manipulated by the conscious personality.

        Maybe it is in how you say what you do
        and not what you are attempting to say.
        J:Well now that is possible as the things we are discussing are hard
        to put to words, but I don't think that intelligence has anything to do
        with it.  You could be a genius with a disintegrating nerve system and
        it is my belief that you would still have problems being around them. 
        Just like if you ran a mile without exercising your muscles first you
        would probably gets cramps. Same thing... But this is my opinion
        based on my experiences...

        I agree and do not doubt I would have to exercise my mind and my
        abilities to understand these alien beings. As I have no facility with
        telepathy It might fail altogether. If that is the only way they can
        communicate it may be impossible to form a conversation and create
        true understanding in myself.

        J:Or maybe you are being paranoid and fearful solely because they
        are different than us??? Or you are being manipulated by the people
        here that don't want us to know about them because they are in a
        position of power and if we do learn about them then their power will
        be much less. 


        Yes I am a bit of a paranoid. I have fears and questions that disturb
        me. I am not however xenophobic. I welcome an encounter and
        discussion. That is if it could happen between myself and the aliens in
        a honest and open manner. One that I am not forced to their opinions
        by coercion or deceit. One in which the entire world could share in.
        Not a private conversation where I am abducted and manipulated with
        out my consent.
        As I have only the reports of abductees to prepare myself I find
        there is cause for fear and the possibility I will be deluded into a
        belief structure that is not of my own making.

        J:I'm glad to hear you say this even if you only believe the ones who
        are freaked out...

        Jahnets I am not sure why you discount these individuals and their
        stories. the evidence is strong enough for me that they did
        experience the horrors they describe. I accept their stories in the
        same way I accept your own. I am not only believing the horror
        stories I also accept the benign ones with just as much conviction.
        You made an assumption here and it was incorrect.

        Many of these are extremely unsettling and even terrifying to those
        that suffered them. The fact that most of the reported abductions
        include assertions of mental manipulation, abuse, and control makes
        me think that these individuals were not seeing what was real only
        what their abductors wanted them to see.
         
        J:Well now that is a curious statement...Why would the aliens want
        them to see that???

        It could be a way to frighten and coerce intransigent people into
        capitulation.


        I'm not sure why so many are saying these things but I do have one
        thought which could be wrong or could be right in some cases. It it
        this. This thought is hard for me to put to words but I will try...
        If you met one after reading all these accounts don't you think it
        would be natural to be scared and not sure of what was going to
        happen??? OK Now, so we have the adrenaline flowing already right...

        You have this right. There is a learned response and the fear of being
        subjected to the things described would teach us to be cautious and
        fearful in a similar situation.

        I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned to you about the astral
        plane and that there your thoughts become real. So you think
        something and it happens, much like that lucid dream I had about
        Osiris.
        Where I wanted to be closer to see and suddenly was floating in front
        of him so I could see...
        OK So what I'm thinking is that when they freak and think these
        things the greys think they want it and project it with their stronger
        emotions and stronger minds and voila you are freaked... Now I may
        be wrong
        but I think I'm close... After all they watch us go to scary movies and
        ferris wheels and watch gory movies and play killing games so some
        of them may think we get a kick out of this...

        It may be a feed back loop but I do not think it is this. I suspect they
        care very little what we think and how we feel. Their actions suggest
        a total lack of compassion and understanding of us. If they are as
        advanced as you suggest in other statements you have made, then I
        think they would have had a greater understanding of this aspect of
        our makeup.
         
        Recently it was expressed to me that the aliens were omniscient and
        all powerful. They knew what everyone on the face of the globe was
        doing and thinking. they could tag you and track you anywhere. and
        knew everything about everything. If this assertion is correct is it
        not possible that they could manipulate awareness and plant images
        and suggestions into their victims? Even if you discount omniscient
        beings and assume beings only marginally advanced from us. It seams
        to me that we must grant that they could deceive us.
         
        J:Yes but why would they want to???

        I have no answer for this but can propose many possibilities. They
        could be only motivated by their own needs and have no true desire
        to help us. They could be motivated by a need to repair the world
        they come from and are only attempting to extend our existence long
        enough to acquire what they seek from us. They could have a desire
        to manipulate us in hopes of reducing the threat we could pose them
        in their activities. I am sure I can think of more but you get my drift
        here.


        Have you ever read any old faerie books??? In the ones I have read
        that is exactly why they left... Mankind was fearful of them because
        they could do these things. Doesn't mean they will, just that they
        could...I don't think they are perfect and I think we will run into good
        ones and not so good ones, just like humans... It's kind of like when a
        woman runs across a man in a forest and she is alone right... How
        does she know
        he is nice or not???

        Again you speak truth here. We have within us a race trait and
        conditioned response. It is the Fight or Flight response we developed
        to help us survive as hunter / gatherers and stretches all the way to
        our most ancient past. It is ingrained in us and we can not overcome
        this without engaging our intellect. Still you exhibit this reaction
        every time you are confronted as do I.
        This could also be a reason for their subterfuge and lack of
        forthright interaction wit us.

        J:What if you had a conversation with someone and asked them to
        give you a rose or hearts in the clouds and then within three days a
        crop circle shows up with a heart in it??? Then another one that
        looks like a rose... What would you think???ha ha

        I would think that these individuals are attempting to convince me of
        their power and abilities to manipulate me.

        J:Why won't you accept that they are telepaths??? I'm not the only
        one that says this... I don't think you will believe anyone until you do it
        yourself...


        Again you made an assumption here. I do not discount the possibility
        that they are telepathic I suspect they have a facility in this and that
        is a source or possible reason for the reconfiguration of our brain in
        their attempt to communicate with us or manipulate us.
        I do not wish to speak ill of you or cause you distress in any way. I
        hope you can see my points here and understand I do not discount
        your assertions only wish you would consider my view as an objective
        observer. I have no personal agenda other than to put forth my
        thoughts and ideas so that we might find some connections to our
        respective experience and that of others. I recognize that the
        patterns of all the encounters and experiences form a picture that
        may not be pleasant but does remain in the realm of possibility.
        Warmly
        Vern





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