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Condoning Torture: Mankind's regression into savagery

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  • savefreedom2005
    Condoning Torture: Mankind s regression into savagery The classic Milgram experiment demonstrated that 60 to 65% of the people will torture another person if
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 10, 2007
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      Condoning Torture: Mankind's regression into savagery

      The classic Milgram experiment demonstrated that 60 to 65% of the
      people will torture another person if told to do so. The subjects of
      the experiment were in a civilian setting, and were not threatened in
      any way.


      The Milgram Experiment Podcast (discussion and explanation)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRZnsiNb_E&mode=related&search=
      (For some reason this URL must be copied and pasted into address bar)

      Milgram's obedience classic experiment ( a re-enactment )
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymgfhjQ_sFs

      MILGRAM PSY10 VID
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi2q8RXtvs

      Milgram Experiment Part 1 (actual film of test)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG1_Wx9wzE&mode=related&search=


      Milgram Experiment Part 2 (actual film of test)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9IE0Joto0

      What you see in the some of the videos below will be disturbing.
      The question is whether you would rather see it in a video
      or in our prisons and police departments.

      Abu Ghraib Torture
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0bxSqWMdo

      Matt Lauer Corners Bush on Torture
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4vLBvU1bA

      Sen. Edward Kennedy asks Alberto Gonzales about torture.
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=MkaIpjKUc_g

      David Gregory vs Bush on Torture Bill
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=viqZ1ouZaDU

      Chinese use torture to extract confession, then execute
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vuqa9VkwdCg

      Gitmo - Story of Guantanamo prisoners (Inhumane torture)
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=6eIPoZadotk

      Chinese government torture The Falun Gong 00 (audio not in English)
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y_gsIIQOBsY

      Medieval Torture Devices:
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=JHjYFaJPju8&mode=related&search=

      Remember you are already declared an "enemy of
      the state". You, as an American, can be declared an "enemy
      combatant" merely by voicing any objection to what the US is doing.

      Torture Devices:
      These videos have been "removed" due to "terms of use violation".
      This is clear censorship
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=KzAV2T9v8Eg
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrxDPCo59YU&mode=related&search=
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=bX-V7j1xkgk&mode=related&search=
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=7iAqLD2FAlQ&mode=related&search=
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZccBJQrb8xM&mode=related&search=

      Condoning torture is mankind's regression into savagery. The classic
      Milgram experiment demonstrated that 60 to 65% of the people will
      torture another person if told to do so. The subjects of the
      experiment were in a civilian setting, and were not threatened in any
      way.


      What you see in the some of the videos below will be disturbing.
      The question is whether you would rather see it in a video or in our
      prisons and police departments.

      There is a video on Abu Ghraib Torture,
      a video showing Matt Lauer Cornering Bush on Torture,
      a video showing Sen. Edward Kennedy asking Alberto Gonzales about
      torture,
      a video showing David Gregory vs Bush on Torture Bill,
      a video about the Chinese use of torture to extract confession, then
      execute
      and a Swedish documentary on Guantanamo prisoners.
      This Swedish documentary is somewhat anti-American, but makes many
      valid points.

      Any of us could be declared an "enemy of the state". Any of us could
      be declared an "enemy combatant" merely for voicing any objection to
      what the US is doing.

      Defenders of our detainment of "enemy combatants" will argue that we
      feed them well, and give them free medical and dental care.
      This is somewhat like those who proudly pointed out that Mussolini
      made the trains run on time, or that Hitler provided a low cost
      automobile, or that Stalin gave everyone a job and raised the
      standard of living of the poor.

      None of those defenders have volunteered to spend a few years at
      Guantanamo so that they can receive all of these benefits.

      Relevant questions are these:
      How did the "detainees" wind up at Guantanamo?
      Were they arrested, in their own countries, by police with proper
      jurisdiction?
      Were they extradited to Guantanamo according to law?
      Were they charged with a crime according to our own constitutional
      requirements
      of Habeas Corpus?
      Visit:
      http://capwiz.com/jbs/issues/alert/?alertid=9878216

      Are we abiding by the Geneva Convention?
      How long does it take to obtain name rank and serial number?
      We are destroying freedom in the name of defending freedom.
      In every call for more power for government there should be a
      reminder that nothing in the measure will abrogate constitutional
      rights, or the inalienable God given rights of all human beings.

      We must not destroy freedom in the name of defending freedom.
      Be careful about elimination of rights,
      or the setting up of totalitarian instruments

      If we abandon the heritage of liberty,
      in order to oppose terrorists,
      then the terrorists accomplish their objectives.

      Ben Franklin said, "They that can give up
      essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
      neither liberty nor safety, and ultimately will have neither."


      All dictatorships centralize police power, in the hands of the chief
      executive of the central government. Free countries keep it spread
      out, and in the hands of local authorities.

      "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and
      judiciary, in
      the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether
      hereditary,
      self-appointive, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very
      definition
      of tyranny."
      James Madison in Federalist paper No. 47, para. 3.

      "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect
      liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent.
      Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their
      liberty by evil-minded rulers.
      The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men
      of zeal,
      well-meaning but without understanding."
      Louis D. Brandeis (1856-1941) - American judge

      The Supreme Court said......
      "It is not the function of our Government to keep the
      citizen from falling into error; it is the function of
      the
      citizen to keep the Government from falling into error."
      U.S. Supreme Court in American Communications
      Association v. Douds, 339U.S. 382,442.

      "The means of defense against foreign danger, have been always the
      instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing
      maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout
      all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have
      enslaved the people."

      James Madison, Constitutional Convention
      June 29, 1787

      The Most Dreaded Enemy of Liberty
      by James Madison, August 1793

      Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be
      dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
      War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and
      armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing
      the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the
      discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in
      dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all
      the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the
      force, of the people. . . . [There is also an] inequality of
      fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of
      a state of war, and . . . degeneracy of manners and of morals. . . .
      No
      nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual
      warfare. . . .

      [It should be well understood] that the powers proposed to be
      surrendered
      [by the Third Congress] to the Executive were those which the
      Constitution
      has most jealously appropriated to the Legislature. . . .

      The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature
      the
      power of declaring a state of war . . . the power of raising
      armies . . .
      the power of creating offices. . . .

      A delegation of such powers [to the President] would have struck, not
      only
      at the fabric of our Constitution, but at the foundation of all well
      organized and well checked governments.

      The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting
      it, is
      wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the
      sake
      of its being conducted.

      The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of
      commanding
      them, is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of
      commanding them.

      The separation of the power of creating offices from that of filling
      them,
      is an essential guard against the temptation to create offices for
      the sake
      of gratifying favorites or multiplying dependents.


      James Madison was the fourth president of the United States. This is
      from
      Letters and Other Writings of James Madison.

      "A tyrant is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the
      people may require a leader."

      ~Plato

      -- William Shakespeare SUMMED IT UP in one line in "King Lear":
      "Be it thy policy to busy giddy minds with foreign quarrels."

      "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That
      is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and
      denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the
      country to danger. It works the same in any country."
      -- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

      Videos:
      The Milgram Experiment Podcast (discussion and explanation)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRZnsiNb_E&mode=related&search=

      Milgram's obedience classic experiment ( a re-enactment )
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymgfhjQ_sFs

      MILGRAM PSY10 VID
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi2q8RXtvs

      Milgram Experiment Part 1 (actual film of test)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG1_Wx9wzE&mode=related&search=


      Milgram Experiment Part 2 (actual film of test)
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9IE0Joto0

      Abu Ghraib Torture
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0bxSqWMdo

      Matt Lauer Corners Bush on Torture
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mp4vLBvU1bA

      Sen. Edward Kennedy asks Alberto Gonzales about torture.
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=MkaIpjKUc_g

      David Gregory vs Bush on Torture Bill
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=viqZ1ouZaDU

      Chinese use torture to extract confession, then execute
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vuqa9VkwdCg

      Gitmo - Story of Guantanamo prisoners (Inhumane torture)
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=6eIPoZadotk
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