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2313Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.

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  • Bill Hamilton
    Nov 3, 2004

      For once I agree with you (or was it twice or three times). This is a balanced argument.
      I feel compelled to add that we will judge ETs by their actions and our standards of what
      constitutes good and evil. We must realize, of course, relative to survival, what might be
      good for ET may not be good for us. For instance, in need of water as their home world
      is drying out, they deplete us of our water resources until we cannot survive. Let us hope
      they would have an EQ on par with their IQ and negotiate first.

      Bill Hamilton
      AstroScience Research
      "I don't see the logic of rejecting data just because they seem incredible." Fred Hoyle

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: DRxDON
      To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:14 PM
      Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.


      I know that we have *some* common ground, but some widely diverging viewpoints
      on a number of subjects too. I believe, though, that we have reached a point of
      "peaceful coexistence", so that when one of us sends a post that is largely in
      disagreement with one of these points, we just ignore it instead of starting an
      argument. I do not wish to start an argument here.

      Now, I would honestly like to know your opinion of something here. Do you really
      believe that ALL "visitors" are friendly and benevolent, as Richard Boylan does?
      If so, I must state my position on this. I believe that to believe in such a
      position is "extremist" and just as "radical" in believeing that ALL "visitors"
      are evil and malevolent.

      I believe, like I think you said before, that ETs can be looked at as humans; some
      *individuals" are "good" and some are "bad", just as some whole factions of the
      human race have the betterment of the race in mind while other factions are just
      out for ego glory and power-mongering. Even those who have the betterment of the
      human race in mind may be *severely* misguided in believing that the "ends justify
      the means". Some of these people may even be blind to some of their own ego-glory
      seeking behavior too. I would say that the same could apply to ET races.

      Also, I believe that whole ET races may indeed be caught up into a collective
      mentality whereby it may NOT just be "racist generalization" to suggest that an
      entire ET race may have particular "designs" with regards to the future of our race.
      Of course, it is also not out of the question that such "homogenized" collective
      races may not have dissenters of their own.

      The basic point I am trying to make, I guess, is that the question or "good" vs "bad"
      ETs is not an easy one to answer.


      Jahnets wrote:
      > Haha...I wasn't refering to the visitors, I know they are peaceful... ha ha
      > I meant TPTB... If they are as bad as he says then why is he doing so
      > well???lol Unless maybe they are playing with him and he doesn't even
      > realize it... I mean that as in the way you might play with an opponent in a
      > chess game...;-)
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Jeffrey Morgan Foss [mailto:liastar@...]
      > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 6:12 PM
      > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
      > You are so brilliant, J. The visitors are peaceful. That's why they do not
      > harass or retaliate.
      > Jeff
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Jahnets
      > To: ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:34 AM
      > Subject: RE: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
      > Ok I have a question...
      > "They shape-shift. To us
      > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
      > > overcoat."
      > To me, wearing a human body or a lizard body isn't what's relevant, it's the
      > being that inhabits it and what they stand for. You know??? This is
      > beginnning to reek of "they are different because they look different",
      > which isn't right. Now when we are on the verge of contact I think it is so
      > important to keep it in our minds so we don't fall into the same hole those
      > with no honor are in and judge beings on what they look like rather than
      > their actions. It's too easy to fall back into this that we as humans are
      > just getting rid of between us. They too know this and will use it against
      > us... Why are some who speak so not harassed by them???
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Bre [mailto:brel@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:30 PM
      > To: Pre; ufodiscussion@yahoogroups.com; TNM
      > Subject: [ufodiscussion] Icke's Shape-shifting Reptilians.
      > >
      > >
      > > Excerpt from David Icke's book "The Biggest Secret"
      > >
      > > "In a remarkable period of 15 days as I travelled, around the United
      > > States in 1998, I met more than a dozen separate people who told me
      > > of how they had seen humans transform into reptiles and go back
      > > again in front of their eyes. Two television presenters had just
      > > such an experience while interviewing, a man who was in favour of
      > > the global centralization of power known as the New World Order.
      > > After the live interview, the male presenter said to his colleague
      > > that he had experienced an amazing sight during the interview. He
      > > had seen the man's face transform into a lizard-like creature and
      > > then return to human. His female fellow presenter was astounded
      > > because she had seen the interviewee's hands turn reptilian. The
      > > male presenter also told me of an experience a policeman friend had
      > > while making a routine visit to an office block in Aurora, near
      > > Denver, Colorado. The policeman had commented to an executive of one
      > > of the companies on the ground floor of the extreme nature of
      > > security in the building. She told him he should look at the higher
      > > floors if he wanted to know how extensive it really was. She also
      > > pointed to a lift which only went to certain floors at the top of
      > > the building and, as they chatted, she told him of something she had
      > > seen some weeks earlier. The lift had opened and a very strange
      > > figure had emerged. He was white to the point of being albino, but
      > > he had a face shaped like a lizard and his eye pupils were vertical
      > > like a reptile's. This lizard-like figure, had walked out of the
      > > lift and into an official-looking car waiting outside. The policeman
      > > was so intrigued that he used his own time to check on the companies
      > > at the top of the building served, by the mystery lift. He found
      > > they were all fronts for the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Click to subscribe to ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandNibiru
      > >
      > <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthand
      > Nibiru/join>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ETandufoconspiracyandhistoryonEArthandN
      > ibiru/join
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Then there are the experiences of Cathy O'Brien, the mind controlled
      > > slave of the United States government for more than 25 years, which
      > > she details in her astonishing book, "Trance Formation Of America",
      > > written with Mark Phillips. She was sexually abused as a child and
      > > as an adult by a stream of famous people named in her book. Among
      > > them were the US Presidents, Gerald Ford, Bill Clinton and, most
      > > appallingly, George Bush, a major player in the Brotherhood, as my
      > > books and others have long exposed. It was Bush, a paedophile and
      > > serial killer, who regularly abused and raped Cathy's daughter,
      > > Kelly O'Brien, as a toddler before her mother's courageous exposure
      > > of these staggering events forced the authorities to remove Kelly
      > > from the mind control programme known as Project Monarch. Cathy
      > > writes in "Trance Formation Of America" of how George Bush was
      > > sitting in front of her in his office in Washington DC when, he
      > > opened a book at a page depicting lizard-like aliens from a far off,
      > > deep space place. Bush then claimed to be an 'alien' himself and
      > > appeared, before her eyes, to transform 'like a chameleon' into a
      > > reptile. Cathy believed that some kind of hologram had been
      > > activated to achieve this and from her understanding at the time I
      > > can see why she rationalized her experience in this way. Anyone
      > > would, because the truth is too fantastic to comprehend until you
      > > see the build up of evidence. There's no doubt that alien based mind
      > > programmes are part of these mind control projects and that the
      > > whole UFO/extraterrestrial scene is being massively manipulated, not
      > > least through Hollywood films designed to mold public thinking.
      > > Cathy says in her book that George Lucas, the producer of Star Wars,
      > > is an operative with NASA and the National Security Agency,
      > > the 'parent' body of the CIA. But given the evidence presented by so
      > > many other people, I don't believe that what Bush said and Cathy saw
      > > was just a mind control programme. I think he was revealing the
      > > Biggest Secret, that a reptilian race from another dimension has
      > > been controlling the planet for thousands of years. I know other
      > > people who have seen Bush shape-shift into a reptilian.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > The president of Mexico in the 1980s, Miguel DeLa Madrid also used
      > > Cathy in her mind controlled state. She said he told her the legend
      > > of the Iguana and explained that lizard-like extraterrestrials had
      > > descended upon the Mayans in Mexico. The Mayan pyramids, their
      > > advanced astronomical technology and the sacrifice of virgins, was
      > > inspired by lizard-like aliens, he told her. He added that these
      > > reptilians interbred with the Mayans to produce a form of life they
      > > could inhabit. De La Madrid told Cathy that these reptile-human
      > > bloodlines could, fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance
      > > through chameleon-like abilities - "a perfect vehicle for
      > > transforming into world leaders", he said. De la Madrid claimed to
      > > have Mayan-lizard ancestry in his blood which allowed him to
      > > transform back to an iguana at will. He then changed before her
      > > eyes, as Bush had, and appeared to have a lizard-like tongue and
      > > eyes." Cathy understandably believed this to be another holographic
      > > projection, but was it really? Or was De La Madrid saying something
      > > very close to the truth? This theme of being like a chameleon is
      > > merely another term for 'shape-shifting', a theme you find
      > > throughout the ancient world and among open minded people, in the
      > > modern one too. Shapeshifting is the ability to use your mind to
      > > project another physical image for people to see. Everything is
      > > energy vibrating, at different speeds, so if you use your mind to re-
      > > vibrate that energy to a different resonance, you can appear in any
      > > form you choose. Many witnesses have described how the so-
      > > called 'Men in Black' materialize and dematerialize when they
      > > threaten people who are communicating information about
      > > extraterrestrials and UFOs. They can do this because they are
      > > interdimensional beings who can appear in any form. This is the main
      > > reason for the obsession with interbreeding among the Elite
      > > bloodline families. They are seeking to maintain a genetic structure
      > > which allows them to move between dimensions and shape-shift between
      > > a human and reptilian appearance. Once the genetic structure falls
      > > too far from it's reptilian origin, they can't shapeshift in this
      > > way.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hunter S. Thompson in his book, "Fear and Loathing, In Las Vegas,"
      > > describes seeing reptiles while in a drugged condition and a guy I
      > > met in the United States (in those 15 days I mentioned earlier) told
      > > me a similar story. He 'tripped' on a large amounts of LSD in the
      > > 1960s and in his seriously mind-altered state he would see some
      > > people as humans and others as humanoid lizards and other reptiles.
      > > For a while he believed that he was merely hallucinating, but as a
      > > regular 'tripper' at high doses he began to realize that what he was
      > > seeing, usually by the third day of a five-day 'trip', was not an
      > > hallucination, but the vibratory veils lifting which allowed him to
      > > see beyond the physical to the force controlling the person. In
      > > these moments the same people always had lizard features and the
      > > same people always looked human. They never switched. He also began
      > > to observe that those around him who appeared lizard-like in his
      > > altered state always seemed to react the same to movies, television
      > > programmes, etc. We used to laugh and say "here come the lizards,"
      > > he told me. He believed there was, to use his own phrase,
      > > a 'morphogenetic field' which transmitted to the DNA of the lizard
      > > people and aligned the cell structure to the reptilian genetic
      > > blueprint. The more reptilian genes a person carries the easier it
      > > is for this communication, or rather control, to take place. And the
      > > ones with the cell structure most aligned to the reptilian blueprint
      > > are the Elite families that run the world to this day. It is not
      > > without reason that Diana, Princess of Wales, used to call the
      > > Windsors the 'lizards' and the 'reptiles' and said in all
      > > seriousness "They're not human." This was told to me by a close
      > > confidant of Diana for nine years whom I quote at length later in
      > > the book.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At the end of that 15 days of meeting person after person telling me
      > > the same story of seeing humans become reptiles, I was sitting in
      > > the speakers' room at a Whole Life Expo event in Minneapolis where I
      > > was appearing and was chatting about these experiences when a gifted
      > > psychic lady said that she knew what I was talking about, because
      > > she could see the reptiles inside and around the bodies of leading
      > > world politicians, and the business, banking and military e1ite.
      > > This was possible because, as someone who had accessed her psychic
      > > sight, she could see beyond the physical and into the lower fourth
      > > dimension where these reptilians reside. What did Miguel De La
      > > Madrid say to Cathy O'Brien? The reptile-human bloodlines could
      > > fluctuate between a human and iguana appearance through chameleon-
      > > like abilities, 'a perfect vehicle for transforming into world
      > > leaders'. This psychic lady said that most of the people in
      > > positions of power appeared to be reptiles, but there were others
      > > who were still human and these people, she said, were "overshadowed
      > > and controlled" by a reptile, but they weren't actually reptiles. We
      > > would call this being possessed. This is an important distinction.
      > > There are the 'full-bloods' who are reptilians using an apparent
      > > human form to hide their true nature, and the 'hybrids', the reptile-
      > > human crossbreed bloodlines, who are possessed by the reptilians
      > > from the fourth dimension. A third type are the reptilians who
      > > directly manifest in this dimension, but can't hold that state
      > > indefinitely. Some of the 'Men in Black' are examples of this. Many
      > > of the possessed people will have no idea that this is so, but their
      > > thoughts are the reptilians' thoughts and they act in ways that
      > > advance the Agenda without realizing the background to how and why
      > > they are being used. Leading Brotherhood families like the
      > > Rothschilds and the Windsors are full-bloods reptilians wearing
      > > human physical bodies like an overcoat in the full knowledge of who
      > > they are and the Agenda they are seeking to implement. Another
      > > comment the psychic lady made was that in her altered state of
      > > consciousness, Hillary Clinton appeared as a reptile, while her
      > > husband, Bill Clinton the US President, was only overshadowed, and
      > > controlled by one. This is interesting because my own research, and
      > > that of others, has revealed Hillary Clinton to be much higher in,
      > > the hierarchy than Bill, who, while of a crossbreed bloodline, is a
      > > pawn in the game, to be used and discarded as necessary. It is not
      > > always that the most powerful people are placed in what appears to
      > > be the most powerful jobs. Often they are not. They are the string-
      > > pullers of those who appear to have the power.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > There is another key difference between the full-bloods and the
      > > crossbreeds. Everything is created by sound. When you think or feel,
      > > you emit a wave of energy which changes the energy around you to
      > > resonate at that same vibratory level, That wave is actually a
      > > sound, broadcasting beyond the range of human hearing. Form cannot
      > > exist without sound. As you can see in a fantastic series of videos
      > > called Cymatics, it is sound which turns matter into form. In the
      > > videos, sand and other particles are placed on a metal plate and
      > > this is vibrated by different sound which rearrange the sand into
      > > amazing, often geometric patterns. With each change of sound the
      > > patterns change accordingly. Go back to the original sound and the
      > > original pattern returns immediately. It is like the waves that form
      > > the concentric circles of the planetary orbits around the Sun I
      > > mentioned in the last chapter, The solar system is also the creation
      > > of sound. Everything is. In the beginning was the word and the word
      > > was sound. In the Cymatics videos you see the particles form into
      > > mini planets, solar systems and galaxies, just through sound
      > > vibrations. Sound is also a wonderful form of healing because by
      > > resonating the body and its organs at their proper vibration they
      > > can be healed. Illness is disease, the disharmony of the natural
      > > vibrational state of the body and, because our thoughts and emotions
      > > are actually sound waves, our imbalanced thoughts and emotions
      > > disrupt the vibrational harmony and therefore lead to disease. This
      > > is how emotional stress causes illness. It is so simple. Anyway,
      > > another incredible example of all this in the Cymatics videos is
      > > seeing almost human-like figures forming from the particles when
      > > certain sounds are emitted. Our bodies are also the result of sound
      > > resonating energy into form and if our minds are powerful enough to
      > > change the sound range of the body, it moves into another form or
      > > disappears from this dimension, altogether. This is what is called
      > > shape-shifting. It is not a miracle, it is science, the natural laws
      > > of creation. The full-blood reptilians of the lower fourth dimension
      > > can therefore make their 'human' physical form disappear and bring
      > > forward their reptilian level of existence. They shape-shift. To us
      > > in this dimension they appear human, but it's just a vibrational
      > > overcoat.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > After the first draft, of this chapter was completed I met another
      > > woman, this time in England, who had been married to a man involved
      > > in Satanic ritual and the Brotherhood networks. He was head keeper
      > > of an area of land called Burnham Beeches, near the Buckinghamshire-
      > > Berkshire border a few miles from Slough, west of London. This is an
      > > ancient site mentioned in the Domesday Book at the time of William
      > > the Conqueror in the 1lth century and it has a reputation for
      > > Satanism. The lady who spoke to me was taking her dog for a walk
      > > across the land at dusk in the early 1970s when she saw a figure in
      > > a long red robe. When he lifted his head, she saw that his face was
      > > that of a lizard. She obviously thought she was crazy, but this was
      > > no illusion, she said the 'lizard' was very real and very physical,
      > > not an apparition. She is very psychic and she later began to see
      > > people either transform into lizards before her eyes or be
      > > overshadowed by them in exactly the way described by the American
      > > psychic. If you look in the picture section you will see an artist's
      > > impression of what she sees with her psychic sight and many others
      > > have described exactly the same experiences. On July 20th 1988, a
      > > number of people in Bishopsville, South Carolina said they were
      > > terrorised by a "seven foot tall lizardman that had no hair,
      > > eyebrows or lips, three fingers on each hand and large slanted eyes
      > > that glowed red in colour. There were five sightings of this "lizard-
      > > man" and the story was reported in the Los Angeles Times and the
      > > Herald Examiner."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > "Jerry E. Smith" <jerryesmith@g <mailto:jerryesmith@g>...>
      > > Date: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:45 pm
      > >
      > > Subject: Re: [openmindandcodenews] Jerry ... what specifically might
      > > be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien Presence'? Re: Stupid
      > > People Love Bush
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Smacko
      > >
      > > what specifically might be the single best evidence supporting an 'Alien
      > > Presence'?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I have been asked variations on this question dozens of times, and
      > > frankly I
      > > still don't have a good answer.
      > > The mere existence of "aliens" is nearly impossible to document, much less
      > > any sort of "presence."
      > >
      > >
      > > Those in the abduction field (which I am not) would, perhaps, insist that
      > > the sheer number of people with abduction stories should be sufficient.
      > > Unfortunately, those stories are more or less just that -- little or no
      > > coroborating evidence backs up those stories. A few mysterious bruises,
      > > unexplained whereabouts for a period of time, maybe some other
      > > witnesses to
      > > lights, possibly some indentations in the ground or some scorch marks, are
      > > about all the "evidence" available. On the other hand scientists like
      > > Michael Persinger can demonstrate that they can create the entirity of an
      > > abduction experience with the right radio frequences beamed into the
      > > correct
      > > portion of the brain.
      > >
      > >
      > > I think the best evidence to date is the number of witnesses to the
      > > Roswell
      > > event. Witnesses that insist that there was hard physical evidence
      > > that the
      > > government took away. But one crash and recovery hardly makes for a
      > > "presence."
      > >
      > >
      > > Of course, as the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of
      > > absence.
      > >
      > >
      > > To be honest, I am more prone to believe that these "aliens" are not from
      > > some other world (extraterrestrial) but from some other dimension
      > > (extradimensional). If I remember correctly quantum physics now believes
      > > that our universe has 9 dimentions, even though we only percieve 3 (4
      > > if you
      > > count time, which some do, and some don't). Have you read Abbott's
      > > FLATLAND?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > That is a thin little parable about what happened with a one dimensional
      > > being met a two dimensional one, then together meet a three dimensional
      > > being. I don't have any problem imagining that we are in a similar
      > > situation
      > > to beings who live in 5 or 6 or 7 or whatever dimensions. That's the basis
      > > of David Ickes "shape-shifting reptillians." They are morphing in and
      > > out of
      > > our 3 into their 6 (or whatever) and back -- if any of it is true, of
      > > course. Extratemporal (time travelers) is not entirely impossible either.
      > > I have been researching man-made UFOs for about 2 decades now. It seems
      > > clear that the nazis did have a flying disc program, and that they got
      > > some
      > > working. I will be writing about this a some length in my Spear of Destiny
      > > book, as we will be contending that, at least one of the 5 spears that are
      > > claimed to be The Spear, went to antarctica to the Final Stronghold --
      > > which
      > > was abandoned in the late 60s or early 70s, if our information is correct.
      > > But aging nazi disk aircraft do not an alien presence make, eh?
      > >
      > > So, you tell me, and we'll both know!
      > >
      > > Jerry E. Smith
      > > Author & Lecturer
      > >
      > > http://www.jerryesmith.com/
      > > http://www.ryze.com/go/jesmith
      > >
      > >
      > > Check out "The Universal Seduction" book series at
      > > http://www.theuniversalseduction.com. I am one of the 38 authors who
      > > supplied thought provoking information for Volume Three, which deals with
      > > paranormal phenomena, UFO's & alien abduction, true conspiracies,
      > > cults and
      > > much more. Only here can you read "End Of The World," the original 'lost
      > > chapter' from my book "HAARP: The Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy,"
      > > where
      > > I revealed a possible link between the HAARP project and Freemasonry,
      > > Illuminism and/or Satanism. I don't sell it, but you can buy "The
      > > Universal
      > > Seduction, Volume Three" from BookSurge at
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A00
      > 0603\
      > >
      > <http://www.booksurge.com/product.php3?bookID=IMPR00229-00006&affiliateID=A0
      > 00603%5C>
      > > .
      > >
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