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Re: sorunlu insanlar

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  • Richard
    Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 3, 2011
      Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.

      I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.

      --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Richard,
      >
      > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu. 
      >
      > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
      >
      > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
      >
      > Kind regards
      > Genevieve 
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
      > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
      > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
      >
      > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
      >
      > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
      >
      > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
      >
      > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
      > >
      > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ögretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
      > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
      > >
      > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
      > >
      > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Genevieve Morzadec
      Sayin Richard Bey, Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2011
        Sayin Richard Bey,

        Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.

        Dear Richar,

        Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way. 
        Kind regards. Genevieve.


        ________________________________
        From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
        To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
        Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar


         


        Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.

        I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.

        --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Richard,
        >
        > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu. 
        >
        > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
        >
        > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
        >
        > Kind regards
        > Genevieve 
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
        > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
        > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
        >
        > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
        >
        > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
        >
        > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
        >
        > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
        > >
        > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ögretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
        > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
        > >
        > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
        > >
        > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard
        Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 6, 2011
          Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.

          A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.

          --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sayin Richard Bey,
          >
          > Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
          >
          > Dear Richar,
          >
          > Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way. 
          > Kind regards. Genevieve.
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
          > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
          > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          > Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
          >
          > I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
          >
          > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Richard,
          > >
          > > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu. 
          > >
          > > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
          > >
          > > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
          > >
          > > Kind regards
          > > Genevieve 
          > >
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
          > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
          > > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          > >
          > > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
          > >
          > > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
          > >
          > > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
          > >
          > > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
          > >
          > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
          > > >
          > > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ãâ€"gretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
          > > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
          > > >
          > > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
          > > >
          > > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Genevieve Morzadec
          Dear Richard, It s a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful.
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
            Dear Richard,

            It's a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful. Besides, your crummy Turkish need not be forgiven but your sense of humour should be praised . "The right to be right" sounds smart.

            See you.

            Sayin Richard Bey,

            Kelimelerine göre Türkçe yorumunuzu benim için anlamak biraz zor dolayisiyla  Ingilizce çevirmeniz çok uygun.Üstelik çat pat Türkçenizi mazur görmemeli ama esprili oldugunuz övülmeli."Hatasiz bir hak var" harika gibi geliyor.

            Görüsürüz.

            Genevieve


            ________________________________
            From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
            To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:23 PM
            Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar


             


            Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.

            A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.

            --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
            >
            > Sayin Richard Bey,
            >
            > Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
            >
            > Dear Richar,
            >
            > Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way. 
            > Kind regards. Genevieve.
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
            > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
            > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            > Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
            >
            > I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
            >
            > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Richard,
            > >
            > > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu. 
            > >
            > > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
            > >
            > > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
            > >
            > > Kind regards
            > > Genevieve 
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________
            > > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
            > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
            > > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
            > >
            > >
            > >  
            > >
            > >
            > > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
            > >
            > > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
            > >
            > > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
            > >
            > > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
            > >
            > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
            > > >
            > > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ãâ€"gretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
            > > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
            > > >
            > > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
            > > >
            > > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • armanorama --
            Büyükharfle yazýlan Hak kelimesi Rab demektir.. The word Hak with capital letter means The Lord.. Saygýlar / Regards a To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
              B�y�kharfle yaz�lan Hak kelimesi Rab demektir..
              The word Hak with capital letter means The Lord..
              Sayg�lar / Regards
              a




              To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              From: genevieve80@...
              Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:56:24 -0800
              Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar






              Dear Richard,

              It's a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful. Besides, your crummy Turkish need not be forgiven but your sense of humour should be praised . "The right to be right" sounds smart.

              See you.

              Sayin Richard Bey,

              Kelimelerine g�re T�rk�e yorumunuzu benim i�in anlamak biraz zor dolayisiyla Ingilizce �evirmeniz �ok uygun.�stelik �at pat T�rk�enizi mazur g�rmemeli ama esprili oldugunuz �v�lmeli."Hatasiz bir hak var" harika gibi geliyor.

              G�r�s�r�z.

              Genevieve

              ________________________________
              From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
              To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:23 PM
              Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar




              Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.

              A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.

              --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
              >
              > Sayin Richard Bey,
              >
              > Merhaba ! T��rk��e ��gretmeni gen�� T��rk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi g��r��s��nu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor, � Fransiz ��niversite'de ��alisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ��gretmenin a��iklamasina merak ettim ve forumun ��yelerinin g��r��sleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ��gretmenin dogru oldugunu � saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim i��in hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez ����nk�� ger��ekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi g��r��s��n�� anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
              >
              > Dear Richar,
              >
              > Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way.�
              > Kind regards. Genevieve.
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
              > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
              > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
              >
              >
              > �
              >
              >
              > Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
              >
              > I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
              >
              > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Richard,
              > >
              > > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (����nl����) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study. ��� The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu.���
              > >
              > > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring. ��� I look forward to know your opinion.
              > >
              > > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
              > >
              > > Kind regards
              > > Genevieve���
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
              > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
              > > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
              > >
              > >
              > > ���
              > >
              > >
              > > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
              > >
              > > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
              > >
              > > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
              > >
              > > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
              > >
              > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
              > > >
              > > > Ge����en hafta Universitede T����rk����e bir dersine katildim. T����rk olan ����"gretmen bir metin t����rk����eden fransizcaya ����evirmeye ����grencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir par����aci size ����nermek isterdim :
              > > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, c����nk���� bu, ger����eklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
              > > >
              > > > T����rk ����gretmen bize a����ikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
              > > >
              > > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Yasin Okumus
              Hatasız Kul Olmaz There is no perfect slave slave means here man , person because in Islam, everyone is a slave of God. So, everyone has a false, no
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
                "Hatasız Kul Olmaz"
                "There is no perfect slave"
                "slave" means here "man", "person" because in Islam, everyone is a
                slave of God. So, everyone has a false, no one is perfect.
                This is also a song by Orhan Gencebay:
                http://youtu.be/hnsF3DSPLrY

                or you may like to listen some rock cover:
                http://friendfeed.com/listeny/9f82e723/metropolis-hatasz-kul-olmaz-cover

                On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:11 PM, armanorama -- <buker45@...> wrote:
                >
                > Büyükharfle yazýlan Hak kelimesi Rab demektir..
                > The word Hak with capital letter means The Lord..
                > Saygýlar / Regards
                > a
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                > From: genevieve80@...
                > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:56:24 -0800
                > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Richard,
                >
                > It's a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful. Besides, your crummy Turkish need not be forgiven but your sense of humour should be praised . "The right to be right" sounds smart.
                >
                > See you.
                >
                > Sayin Richard Bey,
                >
                > Kelimelerine göre Türkçe yorumunuzu benim için anlamak biraz zor dolayisiyla  Ingilizce çevirmeniz çok uygun.Üstelik çat pat Türkçenizi mazur görmemeli ama esprili oldugunuz övülmeli."Hatasiz bir hak var" harika gibi geliyor.
                >
                > Görüsürüz.
                >
                > Genevieve
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
                > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:23 PM
                > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.
                >
                > A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.
                >
                > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Sayin Richard Bey,
                >>
                >> Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
                >>
                >> Dear Richar,
                >>
                >> Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way.Â
                >> Kind regards. Genevieve.
                >>
                >>
                >> ________________________________
                >> From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
                >> To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                >> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
                >> Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                >>
                >>
                >> Â
                >>
                >>
                >> Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
                >>
                >> I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
                >>
                >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > Dear Richard,
                >> >
                >> > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu.ÂÂ
                >> >
                >> > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
                >> >
                >> > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
                >> >
                >> > Kind regards
                >> > GenevieveÂÂ
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ________________________________
                >> > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
                >> > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
                >> > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ÂÂ
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
                >> >
                >> > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
                >> >
                >> > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
                >> >
                >> > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
                >> >
                >> > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
                >> > >
                >> > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
                >> > >
                >> > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ãâ€"gretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
                >> > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
                >> > >
                >> > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
                >> > >
                >> > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
                >> > >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Richard
                Tamam. Ingilizcesi Only the Lord is without error. Cinas dedim ya--asli Hatasiz bir Allah var. Exactly. The English translation is (as above). Remember
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 7, 2011
                  Tamam. Ingilizcesi "Only the Lord is without error." Cinas dedim ya--asli "Hatasiz bir Allah var."

                  Exactly. The English translation is (as above). Remember I said wordplay--the original is (as above).

                  --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, armanorama -- <buker45@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Büyükharfle yazýlan Hak kelimesi Rab demektir..
                  > The word Hak with capital letter means The Lord..
                  > Saygýlar / Regards
                  > a
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: genevieve80@...
                  > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:56:24 -0800
                  > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Richard,
                  >
                  > It's a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful. Besides, your crummy Turkish need not be forgiven but your sense of humour should be praised . "The right to be right" sounds smart.
                  >
                  > See you.
                  >
                  > Sayin Richard Bey,
                  >
                  > Kelimelerine göre Türkçe yorumunuzu benim için anlamak biraz zor dolayisiyla Ingilizce çevirmeniz çok uygun.Üstelik çat pat Türkçenizi mazur görmemeli ama esprili oldugunuz övülmeli."Hatasiz bir hak var" harika gibi geliyor.
                  >
                  > Görüsürüz.
                  >
                  > Genevieve
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
                  > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:23 PM
                  > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.
                  >
                  > A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.
                  >
                  > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Sayin Richard Bey,
                  > >
                  > > Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
                  > >
                  > > Dear Richar,
                  > >
                  > > Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way.Â
                  > > Kind regards. Genevieve.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
                  > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
                  > > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Â
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
                  > >
                  > > I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
                  > >
                  > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear Richard,
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu.ÂÂ
                  > > >
                  > > > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
                  > > >
                  > > > Kind regards
                  > > > GenevieveÂÂ
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ________________________________
                  > > > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
                  > > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
                  > > > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ÂÂ
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
                  > > >
                  > > > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
                  > > >
                  > > > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
                  > > >
                  > > > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ãâ€"gretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
                  > > > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Genevieve Morzadec
                  Hello Yasin, Once again I got it all wrong because Hak and hak have a different meaning. Anyway I have listened to both interpretations of the song Hatasiz
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 8, 2011
                    Hello Yasin,

                    Once again I got it all wrong because Hak and hak have a different meaning. Anyway I have listened to both interpretations of the song "Hatasiz kul olmaz".  I prefer the original one by Orhan Gencebay, I think its slow rythm fits the intensity of the feelings. 

                    Bir daha yanlis anlamistim çünkü hak ve Hak'in anlami degisik.  Neyse "Hatasiz kul olmaz" sarki iki versiyonlari dinledim. Orhan Gencebay'in asil versiyonu tercih ederim, sanarim yavas temposu yogun duygulari ile uyumlu. Sözleri asagida.

                    Selamalar. Genevieve.

                    Hatasız kul olmaz, hatamla sev beni 
                    Dermansız dert olmaz, dermana sal beni 
                    Kaybettim kendimi, ne olur bul beni 
                    Yoruldum halim yok, sen gel de al beni. 

                    Feryada gücüm yok, feryatsız duy beni 
                    Sevenlerin aşkına, ne olur sev beni 
                    Sev beni... 

                    Bu feryat, bu hasret öldürür aşk beni 
                    [ kaynak: http://sarki.alternatifim.com/goster.asp?ac=294 ]
                    Uzaktan olsa da, razıyım sev beni 
                    Razıyım sev beni... 

                    Ümitsiz yaşanmaz, sevmemek elde mi 
                    Can demek, sen demek, gelde gör bendemi 
                    Sözümde sitem var, kalptemi dildemi 
                    Tez elden haber ver, o gönlün eldemi 

                    Feryada gücüm yok, feryatsız duy beni 
                    Sevenlerin aşkına, ne olur sev beni 
                    Sev beni...






                    ________________________________
                    From: Yasin Okumus <yasinokumus@...>
                    To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:37 PM
                    Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar


                     
                    "Hatasız Kul Olmaz"
                    "There is no perfect slave"
                    "slave" means here "man", "person" because in Islam, everyone is a
                    slave of God. So, everyone has a false, no one is perfect.
                    This is also a song by Orhan Gencebay:
                    http://youtu.be/hnsF3DSPLrY

                    or you may like to listen some rock cover:
                    http://friendfeed.com/listeny/9f82e723/metropolis-hatasz-kul-olmaz-cover

                    On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 10:11 PM, armanorama -- <buker45@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Büyükharfle yazýlan Hak kelimesi Rab demektir..
                    > The word Hak with capital letter means The Lord..
                    > Saygýlar / Regards
                    > a
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: genevieve80@...
                    > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:56:24 -0800
                    > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Richard,
                    >
                    > It's a bit difficult for me to understand your Turkish comments in terms of vocabulary therefore your English translation is very handful. Besides, your crummy Turkish need not be forgiven but your sense of humour should be praised . "The right to be right" sounds smart.
                    >
                    > See you.
                    >
                    > Sayin Richard Bey,
                    >
                    > Kelimelerine göre Türkçe yorumunuzu benim için anlamak biraz zor dolayisiyla  Ingilizce çevirmeniz çok uygun.Üstelik çat pat Türkçenizi mazur görmemeli ama esprili oldugunuz övülmeli."Hatasiz bir hak var" harika gibi geliyor.
                    >
                    > Görüsürüz.
                    >
                    > Genevieve
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
                    > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:23 PM
                    > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Tam bagdasma olmadiysa da guzel bir tartisma, fikir teatisi ya. Sonucta cok sevdigim eski bir deyime siginacagim (ufacik bir cinasla degistirdim): Hatasiz bir Hak var. Cat pat Turkcemi mazur gorursunuz insallah. Hosca kalin.
                    >
                    > A good argument, an exchange of ideas you know, even though not a complete agreement. To conclude, I shall take refuge in an old saying I love: ........ (I changed it with a slight wordplay.) Hope you will excuse my crummy Turkish. So long.
                    >
                    > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Sayin Richard Bey,
                    >>
                    >> Merhaba ! Türkçe ögretmeni genç Türk bir hanim, asagi yukari 40 yasinda, nazik, canli ve kendi görüsünu acik veriyor. Ona sorunu yok. Tabii ki Fransizca konusuyor,  Fransiz Üniversite'de çalisiyor. Bu konuda (sorunlu insanlar) ögretmenin açiklamasina merak ettim ve forumun üyelerinin görüsleri sordum. Cesitli cevap aldim, bazilari ögretmenin dogru oldugunu  saniyor, baskalari sizin gibi yanlis oldugunu zannediyor. Dolaiysiyla sanirim ki bu konuda kimse yanlis olmadi. Nihayet benim için hakli oldugu mu olmadigi mi fark etmez çünkü gerçekten ufak bir detay oldu ama baskalarin kendi görüsünü anladim da. Umarim ki size dogru bir sekilde cevap verdim. Selamlar. Genevieve.
                    >>
                    >> Dear Richar,
                    >>
                    >> Hi ! The Turkish teacher is a young Turkish lady, about 40 years old, friendly, enthusiast, and she expresses openly her point of view. She has no problem. Of course she speaks French, she works in a French University. In this topic (sorunlu insanlar) I was wondering about the teacher's explanation and I asked the members of this forum what they thought about it. I received various answers, some people think that the teacher was right other people like you think that she was wrong. That's the reason I think that in this topic nobody was wrong. Finally as far as I am concerned, who's right, who's wrong ? it does'nt make much difference because it's actually a small detail but I have understood other people's points of view. I hope that I answered to you in a right way.Â
                    >> Kind regards. Genevieve.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: Richard <rickriedy@...>
                    >> To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:52 AM
                    >> Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Â
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Genevieve hanim: Bence siz haklisiniz. Hocaniz sizinle Turkceden baska nece konusuyor? Fransizca mi, Ingilizce mi? Zannedersem asil sorunu bulmak icin o tarafa bakmamiz lazim.
                    >>
                    >> I think you are right. What language does your teacher speak to you in besides Turkish? In French? In English? I suspect we have to look there to find the real problem.
                    >>
                    >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Genevieve Morzadec <genevieve80@> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > Dear Richard,
                    >> >
                    >> > Thank you very much for your answer. You are right to say that I made mistakes in Turkish, sorry about that ! Utkan corrected some of them in a very helpful way as he knows French. But he could not understand either what I meant when asking my question. First of all, let me tell you that the text is about (ünlü) Aziz Nesin Foundation. The purpose of this foundation is to allow poor children to study.  The Turkish text that I copied contains no mistake. It is sorunlu.ÂÂ
                    >> >
                    >> > Now, the question is : the Turkish teacher asked the students to translate a part of the text. When it came to "sorunlu insanlar" she gave the following translation "people who are troublesome" (in this precise situation). I thought that "sorunlu insanlar" could also mean in this context "people having troubles". But she said "NO !", in this case it has to be people who have problems and disturb other people with their problems. As she is Turkish and a University Teacher she must be right but I am stubborn and I am asking this forum members if they agree with the Teacher . This time I hope that I made myself clear and that it's not too boring.  I look forward to know your opinion.
                    >> >
                    >> > I have no time to write in Turkish because I have to go back to work, English is definitely faster and easier for me !
                    >> >
                    >> > Kind regards
                    >> > GenevieveÂÂ
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ________________________________
                    >> > From: Richard <rickriedy@>
                    >> > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:01 AM
                    >> > Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: sorunlu insanlar
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ÂÂ
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > Genevieve hanim: Affedersiniz ama, galiba mesajinizda bir iki gramer hatasi yapmissiniz. Anlasilmiyor kolay kolay. Ayrica, istediginiz kelime sorunlu mu sorumlu mu?
                    >> >
                    >> > (Aziz Vakfi da neymis? Unlu Aziz Nesin merhum ile iliskisi var mi?)
                    >> >
                    >> > Ms. Genevieve: I think you might have made a few grammar mistakes in your message. It's not exactly easy to understand. Also, is the word you want sorunlu (having problems) or sorumlu (responsible)?
                    >> >
                    >> > (And what might the Aziz Foundation be? Is it connected with the late, great Aziz Nesin?)
                    >> >
                    >> > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "genevieve80@" <genevieve80@> wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Merhaba arkadaslar !
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Geçen hafta Universitede Türkçe bir dersine katildim. Türk olan Ãâ€"gretmen bir metin türkçeden fransizcaya çevirmeye ögrencilere verdi. u metin Nesin Vakfi'nin egitimi ile ilgili. Bu metnin bir parçaci size önermek isterdim :
                    >> > > "Nesin Vakfi'nin egitim amaci sorunsuz insan yetistirmek degildir, cünkü bu, gerçeklesmesi olanaksiz bir amactir. Kaldi yarataci insanlarin bir cogu sorunlu insanlardir."
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Türk ögretmen bize açikladi ki sorunlu insanlar rahatsiz ettigini anlamina geliyor. Tek sorunlari olan insanlar kimseye rahatsiz etmezse sorunlu insanlar denmez. Bu ifadeyi kabul ediyor musunuz ?
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Hepinize selamlar. Genevieve.
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
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