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"nere" as a noun

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  • Laura Blumenthal
    Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today interesting: http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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      Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
      interesting:

      http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html

      Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur. Bağlantısı
      yukarıda.

      Laura 3:)
    • Yasin Okumus
      Umarım bugünkü blog yazım ilginizi çeker daha güzel bir çeviri olacaktır ... 2011/1/5 Laura Blumenthal ... [Non-text portions of
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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        "Umarım bugünkü blog yazım ilginizi çeker" daha güzel bir çeviri olacaktır
        :)

        2011/1/5 Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou2@...>

        >
        >
        > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
        > interesting:
        >
        >
        > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
        >
        > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur. Bağlantısı
        > yukarıda.
        >
        > Laura 3:)
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Laura Blumenthal
        Thank you, Yasin! When I wrote blog yazısı , it didn t look right to me, but I couldn t figure out why not. Can you explain why it s blog yazım and
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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          Thank you, Yasin! When I wrote "blog yazısı", it didn't look right
          to me, but I couldn't figure out why not. Can you explain why it's
          "blog yazım" and not "blog yazısım"?

          Çok sağol Yasin-bey. Blog yazısı sözünü yazarken bana da doğru
          gelmedi, ama nedenini çıkaramadım. Gramerini açıklayabilir
          misiniz?

          Laura 3:)

          On Jan 5, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Yasin Okumus wrote:

          > "Umarım bugünkü blog yazım ilginizi çeker" daha güzel bir
          > çeviri olacaktır
          > :)
          >
          > 2011/1/5 Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou2@...>
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
          > > interesting:
          > >
          > >
          > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
          > >
          > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur. Bağlantısı
          > > yukarıda.
          > >
          > > Laura 3:)
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jean-Xavier Bardant
          Merhaba Laura Bloğunu keşfettim, Kafetsou nun anlamını öğrendim ve Ordinal numbers - why so complicated? diye bir makaleye cevap yazdım. Mutlu yıllar
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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            Merhaba Laura

            Bloğunu keşfettim, Kafetsou'nun anlamını öğrendim ve "Ordinal numbers - why
            so complicated?" diye bir makaleye cevap yazdım.
            Mutlu yıllar herkese!

            Hi Laura

            I discovered your blog, I learned the meaning of Kafetsou and I wrote an
            answer to the article titled "Ordinal numbers - why so complicated?"
            Happy new year to everybody!

            JX
          • Laura Blumenthal
            Oh merci JX!!! 3:) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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              Oh merci JX!!!

              3:)

              On Jan 5, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Jean-Xavier Bardant wrote:

              > Merhaba Laura
              >
              > Bloğunu keşfettim, Kafetsou'nun anlamını öğrendim ve "Ordinal
              > numbers - why
              > so complicated?" diye bir makaleye cevap yazdım.
              > Mutlu yıllar herkese!
              >
              > Hi Laura
              >
              > I discovered your blog, I learned the meaning of Kafetsou and I
              > wrote an
              > answer to the article titled "Ordinal numbers - why so complicated?"
              > Happy new year to everybody!
              >
              > JX
              >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • avize36
              Merhaba Laura, Blogunuzda nere ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2. cumle nasil aciklanabilir? --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle? --Berberin oraya
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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                Merhaba Laura,

                Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2. cumle nasil aciklanabilir?

                --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.

                In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog, how can the 2nd sentence below be explained?

                --Hi pal, where're you going?
                --I'm going over to the barber's.


                --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou2@...> wrote:
                >
                > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                > interesting:
                >
                > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                >
                > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur. Bağlantısı
                > yukarıda.
                >
                > Laura 3:)
                >
              • Laura Blumenthal
                Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it? İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı? Laura 3:) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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                  Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it?

                  İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı?

                  Laura 3:)

                  On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:23 PM, avize36 wrote:

                  > Merhaba Laura,
                  >
                  > Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2.
                  > cumle nasil aciklanabilir?
                  >
                  > --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                  > --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.
                  >
                  > In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog, how
                  > can the 2nd sentence below be explained?
                  >
                  > --Hi pal, where're you going?
                  > --I'm going over to the barber's.
                  >
                  > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                  > <kafetzou2@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                  > > interesting:
                  > >
                  > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                  > >
                  > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur.
                  > Bağlantısı
                  > > yukarıda.
                  > >
                  > > Laura 3:)
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jean-Xavier Bardant
                  It happens also with the locative orada... - Aşkım neredesin? Seni bekliyorum, yemekler soğumaya başladı. - Mehmet in oradayım. Rakı içiyoruz, sohbet
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 5, 2011
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                    It happens also with the locative orada...

                    - Aşkım neredesin? Seni bekliyorum, yemekler soğumaya başladı.
                    - Mehmet'in oradayım. Rakı içiyoruz, sohbet ediyoruz.


                    From: Laura Blumenthal
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:38 PM
                    To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun



                    Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it?

                    İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı?

                    Laura 3:)

                    On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:23 PM, avize36 wrote:

                    > Merhaba Laura,
                    >
                    > Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2.
                    > cumle nasil aciklanabilir?
                    >
                    > --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                    > --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.
                    >
                    > In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog, how
                    > can the 2nd sentence below be explained?
                    >
                    > --Hi pal, where're you going?
                    > --I'm going over to the barber's.
                    >
                    > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                    > <kafetzou2@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                    > > interesting:
                    > >
                    > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                    > >
                    > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur.
                    > Bağlantısı
                    > > yukarıda.
                    > >
                    > > Laura 3:)
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • rickriedy@q.com
                    Laura, If you have Geoffrey Lewis s Turkish Grammer (first edition) on hand, you will find a useful explanation of this point in #24 on page 49.  To wit,
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 7, 2011
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                      Laura,



                      If you have Geoffrey Lewis's "Turkish Grammer" (first edition) on hand, you will find a useful explanation of this point in #24 on page 49.  To wit, "...no word can have more than one personal suffix....When a first or second person is the possessor, the third-person suffix of the izafet gives way to the suffix of the first or second person."  Exceptions to this rule are some "frozen" words like ayakkabi and yuzbasi and a few pronouns like biri (birisi).  Apparently, if the third-person suffix is "i" instead of the variant "si", even some native speakers can be fooled on this point.


                      ----- Original Message -----


                      From: "Laura Blumenthal" <kafetzou2@...>
                      To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2011 12:24:49 PM
                      Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] "nere" as a noun

                       




                      Thank you, Yasin! When I wrote "blog yazısı", it didn't look right
                      to me, but I couldn't figure out why not. Can you explain why it's
                      "blog yazım" and not "blog yazısım"?

                      Çok sağol Yasin-bey. Blog yazısı sözünü yazarken bana da doğru
                      gelmedi, ama nedenini çıkaramadım. Gramerini açıklayabilir
                      misiniz?

                      Laura 3:)

                      On Jan 5, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Yasin Okumus wrote:

                      > "Umarım bugünkü blog yazım ilginizi çeker" daha güzel bir
                      > çeviri olacaktır
                      > :)
                      >
                      > 2011/1/5 Laura Blumenthal < kafetzou2@... >
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                      > > interesting:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                      > >
                      > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur. Bağlantısı
                      > > yukarıda.
                      > >
                      > > Laura 3:)
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Erol Tunali
                      Orası neresi? Unfortunately I m unable to translate. My best try is; Where is it there? . Well, it is silly. Another translation question, I believe related
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 8, 2011
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                        Orası neresi?

                        Unfortunately I'm unable to translate. My best try is; "Where is it there?".
                        Well, it is silly.

                        Another translation question, I believe related to the discussion.

                        Kaçıncı gelişiniz buraya?

                        Again difficult to translate. "How many times did you come here?" if I translate
                        the English version to Turkish, I would translate as "Kaç kere geldiniz buraya".
                        The answer to the original version is, say "5th" but the answer to the
                        translation is "5".

                        On the other hand, the example is not realistic. No husband can answer his wife,
                        asking him to come home because she prepared the meal and it is getting cold, by
                        saying "Mehmet'in ordayım, rakı içip sohbet ediyoruz." (This version looked to
                        me more natural). A worse version would be "Ayşe'nin ordayım, rakı içip sohbet
                        ediyoruz." :)

                        Sevgiler.

                        Erol



                        ________________________________
                        From: Jean-Xavier Bardant <bardant.jean-xavier@...>
                        To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 10:53:53 PM
                        Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun


                        It happens also with the locative orada...

                        - Aşkım neredesin? Seni bekliyorum, yemekler soğumaya başladı.
                        - Mehmet'in oradayım. Rakı içiyoruz, sohbet ediyoruz.

                        From: Laura Blumenthal
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:38 PM
                        To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun

                        Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it?

                        İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı?

                        Laura 3:)

                        On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:23 PM, avize36 wrote:

                        > Merhaba Laura,
                        >
                        > Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2.
                        > cumle nasil aciklanabilir?
                        >
                        > --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                        > --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.
                        >
                        > In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog, how
                        > can the 2nd sentence below be explained?
                        >
                        > --Hi pal, where're you going?
                        > --I'm going over to the barber's.
                        >
                        > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                        > <kafetzou2@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                        > > interesting:
                        > >
                        > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                        > >
                        > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur.
                        > BaÄlantısı
                        > > yukarıda.
                        > >
                        > > Laura 3:)
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • avize36
                        Noun + Noun: Orasi neresi? = What place is that (place over there)? Burasi neresi? = What place is this (place here)? On the second point, in answer to the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 8, 2011
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                          Noun + Noun:
                          Orasi neresi? = What place is that (place over there)?
                          Burasi neresi? = What place is this (place here)?


                          On the second point, in answer to the question in English "How many times did you come here?" one might well answer, "That was my 5th time." Which, of course, is the direct answer to the first Turkish question. But the answer depends on context and what the person being questioned thinks is the answer being looked for. English lacks a word corresponding to kacinci and so casts such questions differently that may imply and allow for more than one answer. That's what makes translation so devilish--and fun.

                          On the third point: Why is that answer not realistic? Why can't a husband say that to his wife? Are you referring to a cultural context? I can certainly imagine such a situation. (And the second, too, if the husband be so bold.)


                          --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Erol Tunali <erol_tunali@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Orası neresi?
                          >
                          > Unfortunately I'm unable to translate. My best try is; "Where is it there?".
                          > Well, it is silly.
                          >
                          > Another translation question, I believe related to the discussion.
                          >
                          > Kaçıncı gelişiniz buraya?
                          >
                          > Again difficult to translate. "How many times did you come here?" if I translate
                          > the English version to Turkish, I would translate as "Kaç kere geldiniz buraya".
                          > The answer to the original version is, say "5th" but the answer to the
                          > translation is "5".
                          >
                          > On the other hand, the example is not realistic. No husband can answer his wife,
                          > asking him to come home because she prepared the meal and it is getting cold, by
                          > saying "Mehmet'in ordayım, rakı içip sohbet ediyoruz." (This version looked to
                          > me more natural). A worse version would be "Ayşe'nin ordayım, rakı içip sohbet
                          > ediyoruz." :)
                          >
                          > Sevgiler.
                          >
                          > Erol
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Jean-Xavier Bardant <bardant.jean-xavier@...>
                          > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 10:53:53 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun
                          >
                          >
                          > It happens also with the locative orada...
                          >
                          > - Aşkım neredesin? Seni bekliyorum, yemekler soğumaya başladı.
                          > - Mehmet'in oradayım. Rakı içiyoruz, sohbet ediyoruz.
                          >
                          > From: Laura Blumenthal
                          > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:38 PM
                          > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun
                          >
                          > Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it?
                          >
                          > İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı?
                          >
                          > Laura 3:)
                          >
                          > On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:23 PM, avize36 wrote:
                          >
                          > > Merhaba Laura,
                          > >
                          > > Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2.
                          > > cumle nasil aciklanabilir?
                          > >
                          > > --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                          > > --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.
                          > >
                          > > In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog, how
                          > > can the 2nd sentence below be explained?
                          > >
                          > > --Hi pal, where're you going?
                          > > --I'm going over to the barber's.
                          > >
                          > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                          > > <kafetzou2@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from today
                          > > > interesting:
                          > > >
                          > > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                          > > >
                          > > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısıma ilgileniyorsunuzdur.
                          > > BaÄlantısı
                          > > > yukarıda.
                          > > >
                          > > > Laura 3:)
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Laura Blumenthal
                          I agree with Rick (avize36) on everything he said, including wondering why a husband could not tell his wife he was having a drink with someone. This must be
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 8, 2011
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                            I agree with Rick (avize36) on everything he said, including wondering
                            why a husband could not tell his wife he was having a drink with
                            someone. This must be a cultural difference that I'm not aware of.

                            On the other hand, I understand the conundrum of trying to translate
                            "Kaçıncı gelişiniz buraya?" and I agree that it's another example
                            of tricky substantives in Turkish.

                            You might try saying something like this: "Which visit is this of
                            yours?" In this case, the answer could be "My fifth." This is a way
                            to translate the noun "geliş" with an English noun ("visit"). This
                            doesn't work of course if it's not a visit.

                            Rick'in söylediklerine tamamen katılıyorum, bir erkeğin karısına
                            birileriyle rakı içtiğininin söyleyemediğin nedenine merak etmekle
                            dahil. Belki şimdiye kadar karşılaşmadığım bir kültür
                            farkıdır.

                            Öbür taraftan "Kaçıncı gelişiniz buraya"'yı çevirmekteki
                            zorlukarı da anlıyorum. Bunun da türkçede çıkan
                            çevirilemediklerinden de olması fikrine katıldım.

                            "Which visit is this of yours?" cümlesiyle çevirirseniz, türkçedeki
                            geliş adı ingilizcedeki visit adıyla çevirip soruna bir çözüm
                            bulmuş olursunuz.

                            Yukarıdaki cümleleri düzelmek isteyenlere buyurun.

                            Laura 3:)

                            On Jan 8, 2011, at 3:15 PM, avize36 wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Noun + Noun:
                            > Orasi neresi? = What place is that (place over there)?
                            > Burasi neresi? = What place is this (place here)?
                            >
                            >
                            > On the second point, in answer to the question in English "How many
                            > times did you come here?" one might well answer, "That was my 5th
                            > time." Which, of course, is the direct answer to the first Turkish
                            > question. But the answer depends on context and what the person
                            > being questioned thinks is the answer being looked for. English
                            > lacks a word corresponding to kacinci and so casts such questions
                            > differently that may imply and allow for more than one answer.
                            > That's what makes translation so devilish--and fun.
                            >
                            > On the third point: Why is that answer not realistic? Why can't a
                            > husband say that to his wife? Are you referring to a cultural
                            > context? I can certainly imagine such a situation. (And the second,
                            > too, if the husband be so bold.)
                            >
                            > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Erol Tunali <erol_tunali@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Orası neresi?
                            > >
                            > > Unfortunately I'm unable to translate. My best try is; "Where is
                            > it there?".
                            > > Well, it is silly.
                            > >
                            > > Another translation question, I believe related to the discussion.
                            > >
                            > > Kaçıncı gelişiniz buraya?
                            > >
                            > > Again difficult to translate. "How many times did you come here?"
                            > if I translate
                            > > the English version to Turkish, I would translate as "Kaç kere
                            > geldiniz buraya".
                            > > The answer to the original version is, say "5th" but the answer to
                            > the
                            > > translation is "5".
                            > >
                            > > On the other hand, the example is not realistic. No husband can
                            > answer his wife,
                            > > asking him to come home because she prepared the meal and it is
                            > getting cold, by
                            > > saying "Mehmet'in ordayım, rakı içip sohbet
                            > ediyoruz." (This version looked to
                            > > me more natural). A worse version would be "Ayşe'nin ordayım,
                            > rakı içip sohbet
                            > > ediyoruz." :)
                            > >
                            > > Sevgiler.
                            > >
                            > > Erol
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ________________________________
                            > > From: Jean-Xavier Bardant <bardant.jean-xavier@...>
                            > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Wed, January 5, 2011 10:53:53 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > It happens also with the locative orada...
                            > >
                            > > - Aşkım neredesin? Seni bekliyorum, yemekler soğumaya
                            > başladı.
                            > > - Mehmet'in oradayım. Rakı içiyoruz, sohbet ediyoruz.
                            > >
                            > > From: Laura Blumenthal
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:38 PM
                            > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: "nere" as a noun
                            > >
                            > > Good question, Rick! Can anyone explain it?
                            > >
                            > > İyi bir soru. Açıklayabilen var mı?
                            > >
                            > > Laura 3:)
                            > >
                            > > On Jan 5, 2011, at 12:23 PM, avize36 wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Merhaba Laura,
                            > > >
                            > > > Blogunuzda "nere'ye dair acikladiklarinizin isiginda asagidaki 2.
                            > > > cumle nasil aciklanabilir?
                            > > >
                            > > > --Merhaba canim, nereye boyle?
                            > > > --Berberin oraya gidiyorum.
                            > > >
                            > > > In light of the things you explained about "nere" in your blog,
                            > how
                            > > > can the 2nd sentence below be explained?
                            > > >
                            > > > --Hi pal, where're you going?
                            > > > --I'm going over to the barber's.
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                            > > > <kafetzou2@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Some of the members of this group might find my blog post from
                            > today
                            > > > > interesting:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > http://kafetzou.blogspot.com/2011/01/turkish-substantive-question-words.html
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Umarım bugünkü blog yazısÄÂ
                            > ±ma ilgileniyorsunuzdur.
                            > > > BaÄlantısı
                            > > > > yukarıda.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Laura 3:)
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
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                            > >
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                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >



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