Re: English and Turkish grammar terminology / case names
> You are surely right about the difficulty of describing Turkish inoff
> terms of latin grammar models and concepts. However, I find that so
> many similarities are present, that any beginner can safely start
> with using English/Latin terminology. To have to start off withYes this is true but I'm one of those folks who speaks his L2 better
> learning the Turkish forms would be more than Ý could chew :)
> The Turkish names are not self explanatory , so without a grammar to
> guide you you're lost anyway ..
when he doesn't think about it. The idea that we think with a
different "part" of our brain when we use our L2 is something I buy
completely. I like to remove as much English or Turkish or Scots as
possible when I speak or learn Turkish.
> I dont know the book you are referring to. None of the grammarsYeah I think so! This book provided Turkish and Swedish terms for
> seen (English, Norwegian) use Turkish terminology. Ýs there a
> confusion to some extent about the Turkish terminology ? More than
> once Ý've had different terms presented for the same things.
- Hello again, tekrar merhaba,
Ok, as I promised almost a week ago, I am back with the
First of all, as Volkan gave the literal meanings of these three words:
hikaye (syn. OykU)= story (used in modern Turkish for the very meaning)
rivayet (syn. sOylenti)= rumor (same as above)
$art (syn. ko$ul)= condition (same as above)
so they are foreign origin, but I'd like to say, 'naturalized' in Turkish
and are used in daily language.
Then.. Since I mixed up the stuff by throwing the question, and later was
lucky to find a forgotton grammer book (Nurettin KoC's "YabancIlar iCin
dilbilgisi" .. I don't even remember why and how did I get that copy.. but
there it was, on my office shelves.. ) I found a nice page covering our
puzzle about this.
> > ... If that's the case then S.z.sart would be "geliyorsa".Sevgili Nazik, very kind of you (just like your name, eh? :)..
> > You are very right.
> > What is your source for
> > "1. S.z. (rivayet) : geliyormuS
> > 2. S.z. (hikaye) : geliyordu
> > 3. S.z. (sart) : geliyor " ?
> > There exists a mistake there. Because "geliyor" is just Simdiki
> Zaman. Let
> > Arzu confirm me about that.
I am most honored with your reference to me, I wish I could really take
this compliment. I am just a speculator really, and I do sincerely ask
from the professionals that they should confirm my speculations. So when I
don't give any references, don't take me for a "black book" ..
(paranthesis for "black book" -- an idiomatic use in TR, for a book that
old-time-judges used. it was supposed to have the correct assesment of
anything.. so it is not the Orhan Pamuk novel called "kara kitap",
although that one seems to have nice stuff as well! :) .. before closing
the paranthesis, I'd like to have a etimological review for the color
names in Turkish, anybody? Why do we have double names for some colors?)
Yes, back to what I was saying.. (they'll arrest me one day only because I
talk too much... do you think this is possible?)
> What can I say Nazik, I'm a talented young man :O)talented, no doubt, young, you may have to prove ;)
> Nah, it was total gueswork!Ok, you really did fine with the guess work according to the book here..
These tenses are called "bile$ik zaman" - compound tense.
Three compound tenses in Tr.
Hikaye, Rivayet, $art.
They can be blended with almost all the regular tenses, e.g. Past
tense (geCmi$ zaman), Simple tense (geni$ zaman), future tense (gelecek
zaman), Continious tense ($imdiki zaman).. etc.
Since we started with '$imdiki zaman', I'll hereby confirm (with the help
of the book) that Barry & Nazik were just right. Hope this agreement will
bring peace to the earth. :)
$.z.h = geliyordum (I was coming)
$.z.r = geliyormu$um (I was said to be coming)
$.z.$ = geliyorsam (if I was coming)
All the best,