Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [turkishlearner] son mektubunda

Expand Messages
  • sadi tekelioglu
    oyle yaziyor son mektubunda can translates into following three sentences.. To find out which is relevant, we need the whole context. so is written in your
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2001
      oyle yaziyor son mektubunda" can translates into following three sentences..
      To find out which is relevant, we need the whole context.

      so is written in your last letter
      so is written in her last letter
      so is written in his last letter

      she write so in her last letter
      he writes so in his last letter

      best regards
      Sadi

      ----Original Message Follows----
      From: nuss66@...
      Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
      To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [turkishlearner] son mektubunda
      Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 00:13:30 -0000

      First of all, many thanks to Kelly and Johnny for their help with my
      last question - was a wonderful feeling, sitting at home and having a
      query and simply sending a call for help into the big,wide world and
      being then answered so promptly. Strange but pretty fantastic! :-)))
      Anyway, have another question (double smile!).

      Am a big fan of Nil�fer and was working on a beautiful song of hers
      ("Cok Uzaklarda")last summer with two friends in Istanbul. One of the
      lines reads:
      "�yle yaziyor son mektubunda"
      The one friend said "so he wrote in your last letter" and he was
      corrected by the other with "so he wrote in his last letter", which
      he agreed to after a quick reflection. I had thought that mektubuNda
      would be the 2. person "your" too (even though it made no sense in
      the song). Unfortunately the moment didnt allow me to go into
      grammatical detail (I think the doorbell rang as I was opening my
      mouth). Somewhere I'm getting a bit mixed up with the Turkish dative
      here, can anyone help? (Please bear in mind I'm very new to the
      Turkish language, in case the question's a bit stupid!!! thanks!!!!).

      Stevie Kenyon (M�nih)




      _________________________________________________________________________
      Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
    • Johnny Skaaning
      Merhaba Stevie, ... You are right. They are both right. It s ambiguous. Look, mektup (letter) becomes mektub-un , your letter and further mektub-un-da, in your
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2001
        Merhaba Stevie,

        >"öyle yaziyor son mektubunda"
        >The one friend said "so he wrote in your last letter" and he was
        >corrected by the other with "so he wrote in his last letter", which
        >he agreed to after a quick reflection. I had thought that mektubuNda
        >would be the 2. person "your" too (even though it made no sense in
        >the song). Unfortunately the moment didnt allow me to go into
        >grammatical detail (I think the doorbell rang as I was opening my
        >mouth). Somewhere I'm getting a bit mixed up with the Turkish dative
        >here, can anyone help? (Please bear in mind I'm very new to the
        >Turkish language, in case the question's a bit stupid!!! thanks!!!!).

        You are right. They are both right. It's ambiguous. Look,

        mektup (letter) becomes mektub-un , your letter and further
        mektub-un-da, in your letter. So far so good. And,

        mektup becomes mektub-u, his/her/it's letter. BUT,
        when attaching a case (here it's the locative -de/da) to
        the 3rd person possesive suffixes, what is sometimes
        called 'the pronominal n' is added before the case
        ending. So we see that

        mektub-u-n-da means in his/her/it's letter.

        So for the 'mektubunda' we must state that it can mean
        both 'in your' and 'in his/her/it's' letter.

        But, you may say, can't we rule out the 'your letter' possibility,
        what sense does it make to say 'so he/she/it wrote in YOUR last
        letter' !? Well, that is certainly true, it sounds unlikely, even though
        we must also add that this is grammatically correct.

        The reason we can't actually rule out the possibility that mektubunda
        means 'Your letter' in this case, is the ambiguity of the 'yazýyor' ...
        As you've correctly noted, it means 'he/she/it writes' ... and if you pay
        special attention to the 'it' part here, you can probably see a hint of
        how it is (and please correct me if I am wrong, dear native speakers
        and other capacities within the wonders of Turkish) also used,
        namely in the sense 'it writes' , 'it says' ... ending up with the
        possibility: 'so it says (writes) in your last letter'. It could of course
        still be 'so it says in his/her last letter' as well.

        Is this common in Turkish ? Yes, it's often not possible to conclude
        from one single line of a song, who precisely did it to whom. A bit of
        context is needed to determine for instance if it's 'your' or 'his' etc.

        Is there no way to avoid this ambiguity then you may ask. Well, in the case
        of the confusion between the 'your' and 'his/her' part, as well as some ambiguities
        arising from the 3rd person plural, you can always use the appropriate
        pronoun to determine who it was:

        Onun mektubunda would be 'in his/her/it's letter' and
        Senin mektubunda would be 'in your letter' ...

        But then of course the poor Nilüfer would have to rewrite the whole song,
        I mention this more as a tip for your own speaking/writing in cases where
        it's not clear from the context.

        Regards,
        Johnny
      • nuss66@hotmail.com
        thanks again Johnny, and Sadi too! The whole verse reads: o da özlüyormus benim bir tanem hep agliyormus ben olmayinca öyle yaziyor son mektubunda Together
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2001
          thanks again Johnny, and Sadi too!
          The whole verse reads:

          o da özlüyormus
          benim bir tanem
          hep agliyormus
          ben olmayinca
          öyle yaziyor son mektubunda

          Together with friends, we translated this in the following way
          (hopefully we managed to get as close as possible to the original).
          As Nilüfer was singing to the other person, I used "he/his" etc.

          He misses me too
          My only one
          He cries constantly
          When I'm not by his side
          So he wrote in his last letter

          By the way, I thought "daima" was constantly/continually. Is "hep" a
          synonym for "daima" here?

          Best regards,
          Stevie.

          --- In turkishlearner@y..., "sadi tekelioglu" <kipronos@h...> wrote:
          >
          > oyle yaziyor son mektubunda" can translates into following three
          sentences..
          > To find out which is relevant, we need the whole context.
          >
          > so is written in your last letter
          > so is written in her last letter
          > so is written in his last letter
          >
          > she write so in her last letter
          > he writes so in his last letter
          >
          > best regards
          > Sadi
        • sadi tekelioglu
          your final translation is correct now. Hep is synonym for daima in most cases. Best regards Sadi ... From: nuss66@hotmail.com Reply-To:
          Message 4 of 5 , May 4, 2001
            your final translation is correct now.
            "Hep" is synonym for daima in most cases.
            Best regards
            Sadi

            ----Original Message Follows----
            From: nuss66@...
            Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [turkishlearner] Re: son mektubunda
            Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 00:29:48 -0000

            thanks again Johnny, and Sadi too!
            The whole verse reads:

            o da �zl�yormus
            benim bir tanem
            hep agliyormus
            ben olmayinca
            �yle yaziyor son mektubunda

            Together with friends, we translated this in the following way
            (hopefully we managed to get as close as possible to the original).
            As Nil�fer was singing to the other person, I used "he/his" etc.

            He misses me too
            My only one
            He cries constantly
            When I'm not by his side
            So he wrote in his last letter

            By the way, I thought "daima" was constantly/continually. Is "hep" a
            synonym for "daima" here?

            Best regards,
            Stevie.

            --- In turkishlearner@y..., "sadi tekelioglu" <kipronos@h...> wrote:
            >
            > oyle yaziyor son mektubunda" can translates into following three
            sentences..
            > To find out which is relevant, we need the whole context.
            >
            > so is written in your last letter
            > so is written in her last letter
            > so is written in his last letter
            >
            > she write so in her last letter
            > he writes so in his last letter
            >
            > best regards
            > Sadi





            _________________________________________________________________________
            Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.