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Re: iste

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  • Engin Gunduz
    ... There are three more etymological dictionaries that I know of, which can be readily purchased. One is http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=6341 (Turk
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      --- turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
      > From: "furkan" <yp@...>
      > Subject: RE: Re: iste
      >
      >
      > S�zlerin Soya�ac�:
      > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/

      There are three more etymological dictionaries that I know
      of, which can be readily purchased. One is

      http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=6341
      (Turk Dilinin Etimoloji Sozlugu, Ismet Zeki Eyuboglu).

      Eyuboglu's and Nisanyan's works are amateur works. As fas as
      I know, they are not linguists.

      The other two:

      http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=54068
      (Turk Dilinin Etimolojik Sozlugu, Hasan Eren).

      Prof. Eren was working on etymology of Turkish for tens of years.
      I was reading his articles on some language periodicals. When
      he published his work a couple of years ago, I have immediately
      ordered it with joy but was diappointed with the size of the
      dictionary. I was expecting something much more comprehensive.
      The word 'iste' is not mentioned in this dictionary. Anyway, it
      is a professional work.

      The last one is:
      http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=87813
      (TARİHİ VE ETİMOLOJİK T�RKİYE T�RK�ESİ
      LUGATI, A-E [First volume],
      Andreas Tietze)

      Prof. Tietze is an Austrian turkologist. This dictionary would
      perhaps be the largest etymological dictionary of the Turkish
      language. This volume is the first of the seven volumes planned.
      Unfortunately, Tietze passed away shortly after publishing the
      first volume :(. I am hoping that his colleagues and students are
      continuing to work on the project. I am not aware of the future
      of the project, however.


      When looking up these works on bookstore's web site, I came across
      these as well:

      (http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=56570)
      ANADOLU T�RK�ESİNDEKİ YUNANCA, İSLAVCA, ARAP�A VE FARS�A
      �D�N�LEMELER S�ZL��, Andreas Tietze

      (http://www.pandora.com.tr/urun.asp?id=34319)
      TRABZON MA�KA ETİMOLOJİ S�ZL�Ğ�, KUDRET
      EMİROĞLU)

      There was another etymological dictionary, I think it's name
      was something like 'Etymological Dictionary of Pre-sixteenth
      Century Turkish' but I can't seem to find it now
      with google. I don't remember the author either :( It is an
      out-of-print book so I could not get hold of a copy yet.

      There are a couple more etymological dictionaries for turkic
      languages but they are mostly in Russian, hence inaccessible to
      me.

      -engin





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    • Laura Blumenthal
      Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can t use it because I can t make the three missing Turkish characters on my computer. I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't make the
        three missing Turkish characters on my computer.

        I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?

        Laura 3:)

        > From: furkan <yp@...>
        > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
        > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
        >
        >
        >
        > Sözlerin Soyag˜acž:
        > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@...]
        > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
        > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
        >
        >
        > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes from. :)) Also,
        > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Oner
        >
        >
        >
        > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyag˜acž) and if I am understanding
        > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which comes
        > from "žs¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
        >
        > Aydžn
        >
        > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone have
        >> any ideas?
        >>
        >> Thanks!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • furkan
        In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert Symbol ğ, ı or ş. Then copy and paste them onto any search box. Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 1, 2005
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          In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert > Symbol ğ, ı or ş. Then copy and paste them onto any search box.



          Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I don’t know if it actually is.



          Furkan



          _____

          From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
          Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:33 AM
          To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



          Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't make the
          three missing Turkish characters on my computer.

          I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?

          Laura 3:)

          > From: furkan <yp@...>
          > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
          > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
          >
          >
          >
          > Sözlerin Soyag˜acž:
          > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@...]
          > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
          > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
          >
          >
          > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes from. :)) Also,
          > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Oner
          >
          >
          >
          > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyag˜acž) and if I am understanding
          > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which comes
          > from "žs¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
          >
          > Aydžn
          >
          > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
          > wrote:
          >>
          >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone have
          >> any ideas?
          >>
          >> Thanks!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner






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        • Laura Blumenthal
          Not on my system. It s an iMac G3, running OS 8.6. I know it s an antique, but I just haven t gotten around to upgrading yet. Laura 3:) From: furkan
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
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            Not on my system. It's an iMac G3, running OS 8.6. I know it's an antique,
            but I just haven't gotten around to upgrading yet.

            Laura 3:)

            From: furkan <yp@...>
            Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 05:37:10 +0200
            To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste


            In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert > Symbol g˜, ž or s¸. Then copy and
            paste them onto any search box.



            Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I don¹t know if it actually
            is.



            Furkan



            _____

            From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
            Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:33 AM
            To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



            Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't make the
            three missing Turkish characters on my computer.

            I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?

            Laura 3:)

            > From: furkan <yp@...>
            > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
            > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
            >
            >
            >
            > Sözlerin Soyag—acz:
            > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@...]
            > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
            > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
            >
            >
            > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes from. :)) Also,
            > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Oner
            >
            >
            >
            > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyag—acz) and if I am understanding
            > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which comes
            > from "zs¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
            >
            > Aydzn
            >
            > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone have
            >> any ideas?
            >>
            >> Thanks!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner






            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



            ADVERTISEMENT
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            oups/S=1705198292:HM/EXP=1104715984/A=2495202/R=0/SIG=11evjk50a/*http:/www.n
            etflix.com/Default?mqso=60188913> click here


            <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S
            =:HM/A=2495202/rand=117027554>



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          • furkan
            OK then, here is another way: Visit any website that uses those infamous Turkish characters and copy & paste them. I know it’s quite a hassle, but it may
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              OK then, here is another way:



              Visit any website that uses those infamous Turkish characters and copy & paste them. I know it’s quite a hassle, but it may work.



              _____

              From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
              Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:45 AM
              To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



              Not on my system. It's an iMac G3, running OS 8.6. I know it's an antique,
              but I just haven't gotten around to upgrading yet.

              Laura 3:)

              From: furkan <yp@...>
              Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 05:37:10 +0200
              To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste


              In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert > Symbol g˜, ž or s¸. Then copy and
              paste them onto any search box.



              Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I don¹t know if it actually
              is.



              Furkan



              _____

              From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
              Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:33 AM
              To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



              Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't make the
              three missing Turkish characters on my computer.

              I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?

              Laura 3:)

              > From: furkan <yp@...>
              > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
              > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
              >
              >
              >
              > Sözlerin Soyag—acz:
              > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@...]
              > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
              > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
              >
              >
              > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes from. :)) Also,
              > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Oner
              >
              >
              >
              > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyag—acz) and if I am understanding
              > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which comes
              > from "zs¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
              >
              > Aydzn
              >
              > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone have
              >> any ideas?
              >>
              >> Thanks!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner






              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



              ADVERTISEMENT
              <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fhtbb9/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=gr
              oups/S=1705198292:HM/EXP=1104715984/A=2495202/R=0/SIG=11evjk50a/*http:/www.n
              etflix.com/Default?mqso=60188913> click here


              <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S
              =:HM/A=2495202/rand=117027554>



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            • Laura Blumenthal
              I tried that and it did work to some degree. Thanks. Laura 3:) From: furkan Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                I tried that and it did work to some degree. Thanks.

                Laura 3:)

                From: furkan <yp@...>
                Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 18:44:16 +0200
                To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste


                OK then, here is another way:



                Visit any website that uses those infamous Turkish characters and copy &
                paste them. I know it¹s quite a hassle, but it may work.



                _____

                From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
                Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:45 AM
                To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



                Not on my system. It's an iMac G3, running OS 8.6. I know it's an antique,
                but I just haven't gotten around to upgrading yet.

                Laura 3:)

                From: furkan <yp@...>
                Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 05:37:10 +0200
                To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste


                In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert > Symbol g—, z or s¸. Then copy and
                paste them onto any search box.



                Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I dont know if it actually
                is.



                Furkan



                _____

                From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@...]
                Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:33 AM
                To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste



                Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't make the
                three missing Turkish characters on my computer.

                I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?

                Laura 3:)

                > From: furkan <yp@...>
                > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
                > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                >
                >
                >
                > Sözlerin Soyag‹acz?:
                > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@...]
                > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
                > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                >
                >
                > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes from. :)) Also,
                > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Oner
                >
                >
                >
                > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyag‹acz?) and if I am understanding
                > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which comes
                > from "z?s¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
                >
                > Aydz?n
                >
                > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
                > wrote:
                >>
                >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone have
                >> any ideas?
                >>
                >> Thanks!
                >
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              • Samuel Rafinesque
                Sevan Niþanyan is indeed Armenian. Aydýn ... make the
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 2, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sevan Nişanyan is indeed Armenian.

                  Aydın

                  --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                  <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                  > Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't
                  make the
                  > three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                  >
                  > I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                  >
                  > Laura 3:)
                  >
                • anka_zumrudu
                  What an ingenuous idea! :) Dahiane bir fikir! C.o:zu:msu:z sorun yok derlermis.! Z@ ... copy & paste them. I know it’s quite a hassle, but it may work.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    What an ingenuous idea! :)
                    Dahiane bir fikir! C.o:zu:msu:z sorun yok derlermis.!

                    Z@
                    --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "furkan" <yp@a...> wrote:
                    > OK then, here is another way:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit any website that uses those infamous Turkish characters and
                    copy & paste them. I know it’s quite a hassle, but it may work.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@s...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:45 AM
                    > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Not on my system. It's an iMac G3, running OS 8.6. I know it's
                    an antique,
                    > but I just haven't gotten around to upgrading yet.
                    >
                    > Laura 3:)
                    >
                    > From: furkan <yp@a...>
                    > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 05:37:10 +0200
                    > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                    >
                    >
                    > In Microsoft Word, you can do Insert > Symbol g˜, ž or s¸. Then
                    copy and
                    > paste them onto any search box.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Sevan Nisanyan does sound an Armenian name, but I don¹t know if
                    it actually
                    > is.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Furkan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Laura Blumenthal [mailto:kafetzou@s...]
                    > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:33 AM
                    > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't
                    make the
                    > three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                    >
                    > I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                    >
                    > Laura 3:)
                    >
                    > > From: furkan <yp@a...>
                    > > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:49 +0200
                    > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sözlerin Soyagâ€"acz:
                    > > http://www.nisanyan.com/sozluk/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Oner Ozcelik [mailto:catukoglu@y...]
                    > > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
                    > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks a lot Aydin, I was also wondering where it comes
                    from. :)) Also,
                    > > how do you find this Sozlerin Syagaci?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > > Oner
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > According to Nis¸anyan (Sözlerin Soyagâ€"acz) and if I am
                    understanding
                    > > his notation correctly, "is¸te" comes from "üs¸te", which
                    comes
                    > > from "zs¸da" in old Turkish, meaning "s¸urada".
                    > >
                    > > Aydzn
                    > >
                    > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, "davidaksakal"
                    > > wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> I was just wondering what the etymology of 'iste' was. Anyone
                    have
                    > >> any ideas?
                    > >>
                    > >> Thanks!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
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                  • Volkan HATEM
                    The correct thing to say would have been Nisanyan is a Turkish citizen of Armenian decent . -volkan ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
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                      The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                      Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".

                      -volkan

                      --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Sevan Ni�anyan is indeed Armenian.
                      >
                      > Ayd�n
                      >
                      > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                      > <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                      > > Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I can't
                      > make the
                      > > three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                      > >
                      > > I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                      > >
                      > > Laura 3:)
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Samuel Rafinesque
                      Oh, give me a break! Laura didn t ask if he was a Turkish citizen. And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen? Aydin ... can t
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                        And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?

                        Aydin

                        --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                        > Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                        >
                        > -volkan
                        >
                        > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Sevan Niþanyan is indeed Armenian.
                        > >
                        > > Aydýn
                        > >
                        > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                        > > <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                        > > > Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                        can't
                        > > make the
                        > > > three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                        > > >
                        > > > I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                        > > >
                        > > > Laura 3:)
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Volkan HATEM
                        Aydin, Calm down :) I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and his
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
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                          Aydin,

                          Calm down :)

                          I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                          (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                          his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.

                          Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                          explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                          language.

                          By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                          why you were disturbed?

                          -volkan

                          --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                          > And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                          >
                          > Aydin
                          >
                          > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                          > > Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                          > >
                          > > -volkan
                          > >
                          > > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Sevan Ni�anyan is indeed Armenian.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ayd�n
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                          > > > <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                          > > > > Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                          > can't
                          > > > make the
                          > > > > three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Laura 3:)
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
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                        • Laura Blumenthal
                          I didn t want to touch this one at all, but I m dying of curiosity: Why is it illegal to restore houses? Laura 3:) P.S. And now that I m in, why would we
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
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                            I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity: Why is
                            it illegal to restore houses?

                            Laura 3:)

                            P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his citizenship
                            at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that information)

                            > From: Volkan HATEM <volkanh@...>
                            > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
                            > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Aydin,
                            >
                            > Calm down :)
                            >
                            > I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                            > (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                            > his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                            >
                            > Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                            > explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                            > language.
                            >
                            > By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                            > why you were disturbed?
                            >
                            > -volkan
                            >
                            > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                            >> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                            >>
                            >> Aydin
                            >>
                            >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                            >> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                            >>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                            >>>
                            >>> -volkan
                            >>>
                            >>> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Sevan Ni?anyan is indeed Armenian.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Ayd?n
                            >>>>
                            >>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                            >>>> <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                            >>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                            >> can't
                            >>>> make the
                            >>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Laura 3:)
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                            >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
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                            >>> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
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                          • Laura Blumenthal
                            This is one of those convoluted Turkish sentences that drive me crazy: I™zmir in Selçuk I™lçesi¹ndeki Efes Müzesi eski Müdürü Mehmet Selahattin
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              This is one of those convoluted Turkish sentences that drive me crazy:

                              I™zmir'in Selçuk I™lçesi¹ndeki Efes Müzesi eski Müdürü Mehmet Selahattin
                              Erdemgil, kendisi için Œihbarcž, kompleks sahibi¹ gibi sözler kullanarak
                              hakaret ettig˜i gerekçesiyle turizmci Sevan Nis¸anyan¹a kars¸ž açtžg˜ž
                              tazminat davasžnž kazandž.

                              Let's see what I get out of it:

                              Mehmet Selahattin Erdemgil, the former director of the Ephesus Museum in
                              Izmir's Selçuk County, won the damage suit he filed against Sevan Nisanyan,
                              the tourism guy [??], because the latter had insulted him with words such as
                              "denouncer [= tattle-tale?]" and "guy with a complex".

                              Is that close? Also, is Erdemgil the guy that put him in jail for whatever
                              it was he did?

                              Laura 3:)

                              > From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@...>
                              > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 16:53:25 -0800 (PST)
                              > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                              >
                              >
                              > Yes, he is a Turkish citizen. He was in the news also recently. Yesterday's
                              > Milliyet newspaper said that he was sentenced to pay compensation for
                              > insulting a person and that that he took his insults even to his book
                              > "Sozlerin Soyagaci."
                              >
                              > In fact, I have just seen the same news in another newspaper today: Hurriyet:
                              > http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~2@nvid~518889,00.asp
                              >
                              > Oner
                              >
                              >
                              > Volkan HATEM <volkanh@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Aydin,
                              >
                              > Calm down :)
                              >
                              > I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                              > (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                              > his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                              >
                              > Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                              > explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                              > language.
                              >
                              > By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                              > why you were disturbed?
                              >
                              > -volkan
                              >
                              > --- Samuel Rafinesque wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                              >> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                              >>
                              >> Aydin
                              >>
                              >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM
                              >> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                              >>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                              >>>
                              >>> -volkan
                              >>>
                              >>> --- Samuel Rafinesque wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Sevan Niþanyan is indeed Armenian.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Aydýn
                              >>>>
                              >>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                              >>>> wrote:
                              >>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                              >> can't
                              >>>> make the
                              >>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Laura 3:)
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> __________________________________
                              >>> Do you Yahoo!?
                              >>> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                              >>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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                            • Laura Blumenthal
                              Get off your soap box, Öner - I was just asking what he was imprisoned for - I didn t know anything about the case. But if you check out the comments of the
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Get off your soap box, Öner - I was just asking what he was imprisoned for -
                                I didn't know anything about the case.

                                But if you check out the comments of the guests who've stayed there, it
                                sounds like he did renovate them according to their original structure.

                                Here's the website, which I found by doing a search on his name:

                                http://www.nisanyan.net/

                                Laura 3:)

                                From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@...>
                                Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:03:29 -0800 (PST)
                                To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste


                                Why?

                                Some very historical houses should keep their originality. If restored,
                                they should be restored "according to their original structure." Moreover,
                                those particular houses are considered to be the common inheritance of
                                humanity in international law. Destructing or changing their original
                                structure is not allowed by law as with many other sensitive nations of the
                                world. If every house or structure is restored acording to people's own
                                preferences, in a few decades, you will have nothing historical. Especially
                                if the houses are considered to be historical inheritance of the whole world
                                not only of Turkey...

                                Oner


                                Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@...> wrote:
                                I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity: Why is
                                it illegal to restore houses?

                                Laura 3:)

                                P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his citizenship
                                at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that information)

                                > From: Volkan HATEM <volkanh@...>
                                > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
                                > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Aydin,
                                >
                                > Calm down :)
                                >
                                > I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                                > (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                                > his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                                >
                                > Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                                > explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                                > language.
                                >
                                > By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                                > why you were disturbed?
                                >
                                > -volkan
                                >
                                > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                                >> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                                >>
                                >> Aydin
                                >>
                                >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                                >> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                                >>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                                >>>
                                >>> -volkan
                                >>>
                                >>> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Sevan Ni?anyan is indeed Armenian.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Ayd?n
                                >>>>
                                >>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                                >>>> <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                >>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                                >> can't
                                >>>> make the
                                >>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> Laura 3:)
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                                >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>> __________________________________
                                >>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                >>> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                >>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > __________________________________
                                > Do you Yahoo!?
                                > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                                > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                >
                                >
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                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner



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                              • Arzu Coltekin
                                Hello off-topic discussion, I am in too :-) This gentleman, a very well-read man, and gives all the impression of someone who can tell right from wrong, is
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello off-topic discussion, I am in too :-)

                                  This gentleman, a very well-read man, and gives all the impression of
                                  someone who can tell right from wrong, is said to have the restoration
                                  done _before_ some plan from the relevant municipality was published.

                                  "bir kentsel sit olan şirince'de dört adet konut satın alıp, bu evlerin
                                  restorasyonuna koruma amaçlı imar planını beklemeden çatır çutur giriştiği
                                  için, 2863 numaralı kültür ve tabiat varlıklarını koruma kanununa
                                  muhalefetten hapis cezası almış ve cezası infaz edilmiş.."
                                  (grimak/ekşisözlük)

                                  So, he buys 4 houses in Şirince (which is some protected historical site
                                  with the cutest name) and starts restoration before the municipal plans
                                  are ready. Very likely he knew what he was doing as he even has a book
                                  about this stuff, the speculation is that he wanted to make money from
                                  those 4 houses (must be a touristic business) and didn't wait for the
                                  licence to start. Then he gets a jail sentence for that and he does his
                                  time. During the imprisonment, he makes that very dictionary we were
                                  talking about (or so I remember from the preface of the book).

                                  All this is not first-hand information, so I need to put my
                                  disclaimer. Just hope that answers Laura's curiousity to some extend.

                                  Cheers,
                                  -Arzu

                                  ps. Şirince is a sweet name, as şirin means 'cute, sweet'.. that -ce at
                                  the end of it, how would I explain that? .. Can someone else try that
                                  please? :)



                                  On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Laura Blumenthal wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Get off your soap box, Öner - I was just asking what he was imprisoned for -
                                  > I didn't know anything about the case.
                                  >
                                  > But if you check out the comments of the guests who've stayed there, it
                                  > sounds like he did renovate them according to their original structure.
                                  >
                                  > Here's the website, which I found by doing a search on his name:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.nisanyan.net/
                                  >
                                  > Laura 3:)
                                  >
                                  > From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@...>
                                  > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:03:29 -0800 (PST)
                                  > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Why?
                                  >
                                  > Some very historical houses should keep their originality. If restored,
                                  > they should be restored "according to their original structure." Moreover,
                                  > those particular houses are considered to be the common inheritance of
                                  > humanity in international law. Destructing or changing their original
                                  > structure is not allowed by law as with many other sensitive nations of the
                                  > world. If every house or structure is restored acording to people's own
                                  > preferences, in a few decades, you will have nothing historical. Especially
                                  > if the houses are considered to be historical inheritance of the whole world
                                  > not only of Turkey...
                                  >
                                  > Oner
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@...> wrote:
                                  > I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity: Why is
                                  > it illegal to restore houses?
                                  >
                                  > Laura 3:)
                                  >
                                  > P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his citizenship
                                  > at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that information)
                                  >
                                  > > From: Volkan HATEM <volkanh@...>
                                  > > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
                                  > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Aydin,
                                  > >
                                  > > Calm down :)
                                  > >
                                  > > I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                                  > > (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                                  > > his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                                  > >
                                  > > Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                                  > > explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                                  > > language.
                                  > >
                                  > > By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                                  > > why you were disturbed?
                                  > >
                                  > > -volkan
                                  > >
                                  > > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                                  > >> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Aydin
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                                  > >> wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                                  > >>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> -volkan
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Sevan Ni?anyan is indeed Armenian.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Ayd?n
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                                  > >>>> <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                  > >>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                                  > >> can't
                                  > >>>> make the
                                  > >>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> Laura 3:)
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                                  > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> __________________________________
                                  > >>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > >>> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                  > >>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
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                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  > Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  --
                                • Volkan HATEM
                                  ... Arzu explained that one. ... Now I m dying to know what you know about why I posted that information :). Let me explain why I posted this information. As
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@...> wrote:

                                    > I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity:
                                    > Why is
                                    > it illegal to restore houses?

                                    Arzu explained that one.


                                    >
                                    > Laura 3:)
                                    >
                                    > P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his
                                    > citizenship at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that
                                    > information)

                                    Now I'm dying to know what you know about why I posted that
                                    information :).

                                    Let me explain why I posted this information.

                                    As Emin Maluf (Amin Maalouf) explains in "Les Identites Meurtrieres"
                                    (Olumcul Kimlikler) only some of our identities are defined by birth.

                                    It would have been perfectly ok to say that he was Turkish. Because
                                    he is. Identifying him only as Armenian would have been an important
                                    omission.

                                    This can go on and on with many examples and explanations. But I guess
                                    you understand what I mean.

                                    -volkan




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                                  • Laura Blumenthal
                                    OK. It just sounded to me like you were accusing him of destroying something that belonged to the national heritage or something. Laura 3:)
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jan 3, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      OK. It just sounded to me like you were accusing him of destroying
                                      something that belonged to the national heritage or something.

                                      Laura 3:)

                                      > From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@...>
                                      > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 18:03:17 -0800 (PST)
                                      > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Well, you asked why it is illegal to restore houses, and I told you why; plz
                                      > check your former mails. :)) Normally, restoration would not be illegal of
                                      > course.
                                      >
                                      > And the site you give as reference is the person's own site. It is probable
                                      > that the comments will be one-sided. And you seem to be trying to prove his
                                      > righteousness, I don't know anything about this, and am not trying to say he
                                      > did something wrong. Calm down. :)) Some houses, as you say, might be done
                                      > according to the original structure, but even if just "one" building's
                                      > historical original structure is devastated, I don't personally think this
                                      > should be allowed.
                                      >
                                      > By the way, again, I don't know a lot about this person, and I can't say
                                      > anything about if he did something bad or not (except that restoring a house
                                      > in a way different than its original structure can't be accepted). What I
                                      > said was an answer to your question "why it is illegal to restore houses."
                                      >
                                      > Take care :))
                                      > Oner
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@...> wrote:
                                      > Get off your soap box, Öner - I was just asking what he was imprisoned for -
                                      > I didn't know anything about the case.
                                      >
                                      > But if you check out the comments of the guests who've stayed there, it
                                      > sounds like he did renovate them according to their original structure.
                                      >
                                      > Here's the website, which I found by doing a search on his name:
                                      >
                                      > http://www.nisanyan.net/
                                      >
                                      > Laura 3:)
                                      >
                                      > From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@...>
                                      > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:03:29 -0800 (PST)
                                      > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Why?
                                      >
                                      > Some very historical houses should keep their originality. If restored,
                                      > they should be restored "according to their original structure." Moreover,
                                      > those particular houses are considered to be the common inheritance of
                                      > humanity in international law. Destructing or changing their original
                                      > structure is not allowed by law as with many other sensitive nations of the
                                      > world. If every house or structure is restored acording to people's own
                                      > preferences, in a few decades, you will have nothing historical. Especially
                                      > if the houses are considered to be historical inheritance of the whole world
                                      > not only of Turkey...
                                      >
                                      > Oner
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@...> wrote:
                                      > I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity: Why is
                                      > it illegal to restore houses?
                                      >
                                      > Laura 3:)
                                      >
                                      > P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his citizenship
                                      > at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that information)
                                      >
                                      >> From: Volkan HATEM <volkanh@...>
                                      >> Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      >> Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
                                      >> To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                      >> Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Aydin,
                                      >>
                                      >> Calm down :)
                                      >>
                                      >> I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                                      >> (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                                      >> his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                                      >>
                                      >> Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                                      >> explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                                      >> language.
                                      >>
                                      >> By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                                      >> why you were disturbed?
                                      >>
                                      >> -volkan
                                      >>
                                      >> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@...> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                                      >>> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Aydin
                                      >>>
                                      >>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                                      >>> wrote:
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                                      >>>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> -volkan
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>> Sevan Ni?anyan is indeed Armenian.
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>> Ayd?n
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                                      >>>>> <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                      >>>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                                      >>> can't
                                      >>>>> make the
                                      >>>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>> Laura 3:)
                                      >>>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                                      >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> __________________________________
                                      >>>> Do you Yahoo!?
                                      >>>> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
                                      >>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
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                                      >> Do you Yahoo!?
                                      >> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
                                      >> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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                                    • geliruzmani
                                      Hi People, This discussion might go somewhere awfully wrong, Sevan NISANYAN is Turkish, even he is ethnic Armenian. Modern Turkey is based on citizenship and
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 6, 2005
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                                        Hi People,

                                        This discussion might go somewhere awfully wrong, Sevan NISANYAN is
                                        Turkish, even he is ethnic Armenian. Modern Turkey is based on
                                        citizenship and the term "Turkish" does not refer to one's ethnicity
                                        or religion.

                                        His inprisonment is a different matter. Restoring houses can be
                                        againist law and in his case courts ruled him guilty and he served his
                                        term. We might oppose to what law enforces but still we all bound to
                                        obey the law untill it changes. It is free to do any thing to change
                                        the rules as long as methods you use lawful,like campaining, lobbying.

                                        Restoration, it is a tricky business some times it does not matter if
                                        you restore it to original form. Idea of preservation is to protect
                                        the historical heritage and restoration is the last resort when there
                                        is no other way to protect. Think of restoring Collesium even if you
                                        do it according to original it will not be the same thing anymore.

                                        Ahmet










                                        --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@y...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > Well, you asked why it is illegal to restore houses, and I told you
                                        why; plz check your former mails. :)) Normally, restoration would not
                                        be illegal of course.
                                        >
                                        > And the site you give as reference is the person's own site. It is
                                        probable that the comments will be one-sided. And you seem to be
                                        trying to prove his righteousness, I don't know anything about this,
                                        and am not trying to say he did something wrong. Calm down. :)) Some
                                        houses, as you say, might be done according to the original structure,
                                        but even if just "one" building's historical original structure is
                                        devastated, I don't personally think this should be allowed.
                                        >
                                        > By the way, again, I don't know a lot about this person, and I can't
                                        say anything about if he did something bad or not (except that
                                        restoring a house in a way different than its original structure can't
                                        be accepted). What I said was an answer to your question "why it is
                                        illegal to restore houses."
                                        >
                                        > Take care :))
                                        > Oner
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                        > Get off your soap box, Öner - I was just asking what he was
                                        imprisoned for -
                                        > I didn't know anything about the case.
                                        >
                                        > But if you check out the comments of the guests who've stayed there, it
                                        > sounds like he did renovate them according to their original structure.
                                        >
                                        > Here's the website, which I found by doing a search on his name:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.nisanyan.net/
                                        >
                                        > Laura 3:)
                                        >
                                        > From: Oner Ozcelik <catukoglu@y...>
                                        > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:03:29 -0800 (PST)
                                        > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Why?
                                        >
                                        > Some very historical houses should keep their originality. If restored,
                                        > they should be restored "according to their original structure."
                                        Moreover,
                                        > those particular houses are considered to be the common inheritance of
                                        > humanity in international law. Destructing or changing their original
                                        > structure is not allowed by law as with many other sensitive nations
                                        of the
                                        > world. If every house or structure is restored acording to people's own
                                        > preferences, in a few decades, you will have nothing historical.
                                        Especially
                                        > if the houses are considered to be historical inheritance of the
                                        whole world
                                        > not only of Turkey...
                                        >
                                        > Oner
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Laura Blumenthal <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                        > I didn't want to touch this one at all, but I'm dying of curiosity:
                                        Why is
                                        > it illegal to restore houses?
                                        >
                                        > Laura 3:)
                                        >
                                        > P.S. And now that I'm in, why would we need to talk about his
                                        citizenship
                                        > at all? (as if I didn't know why you posted that information)
                                        >
                                        > > From: Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                                        > > Reply-To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
                                        > > To: turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Subject: Re: [turkishlearner] Re: iste
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Aydin,
                                        > >
                                        > > Calm down :)
                                        > >
                                        > > I know he is a Turkish citizen because a couple of years ago
                                        > > (was it last year?) all newspapers were reporting about him and
                                        > > his imprisonment because of the houses he restored in Sirince.
                                        > >
                                        > > Being Armenian is just one of his identities and wouldn't
                                        > > explain some things like his interest and knowledge in Turkish
                                        > > language.
                                        > >
                                        > > By the way, mine was just a simple remark. I don't understand
                                        > > why you were disturbed?
                                        > >
                                        > > -volkan
                                        > >
                                        > > --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Oh, give me a break! Laura didn't ask if he was a Turkish citizen.
                                        > >> And how do you know he is a Turkish citizen?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Aydin
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Volkan HATEM <volkanh@y...>
                                        > >> wrote:
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> The correct thing to say would have been "Nisanyan is a
                                        > >>> Turkish citizen of Armenian decent".
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> -volkan
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> --- Samuel Rafinesque <gastropod@e...> wrote:
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Sevan Ni?anyan is indeed Armenian.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Ayd?n
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> --- In turkishlearner@yahoogroups.com, Laura Blumenthal
                                        > >>>> <kafetzou@s...> wrote:
                                        > >>>>> Wow - very cool website! Too bad I can't use it because I
                                        > >> can't
                                        > >>>> make the
                                        > >>>>> three missing Turkish characters on my computer.
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> I take it that Sevan Nisanyan is an Armenian name, right?
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> Laura 3:)
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/turkishlearner
                                        > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
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                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
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                                      • Kugler Viktor
                                        ... I don t think anybody doubted your rules, no need to be so sensitive :) It is just that we have no information, and imprisonment for restauration just
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 6, 2005
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                                          At 2005.01.06.17:35, geliruzmani wrote:
                                          >His inprisonment is a different matter. Restoring houses can be
                                          >againist law and in his case courts ruled him guilty and he served his
                                          >term. We might oppose to what law enforces but still we all bound to
                                          >obey the law untill it changes. It is free to do any thing to change
                                          >the rules as long as methods you use lawful,like campaining, lobbying.

                                          I don't think anybody doubted your rules, no need to be so sensitive :) It
                                          is just that we have no information, and imprisonment for restauration just
                                          doesn't seem balanced, so i guess there had to be others reasons too,
                                          that's all :)

                                          Viktor
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