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OT FYI re Yeager automation group

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  • ballendo
    Hello fellow CNC ers, (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control customers
    Message 1 of 2 , May 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello fellow CNC'ers,

      (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
      copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
      customers may be looking...)

      <begin msg>
      Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
      Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and AceConverter.
      I had been a member since its inception, and had posted quite a few
      helpful messages (according to the responses given).

      I became aware of this tonight when "My groups" did not list me as a
      member of YA. I thought it might be a yahoo blip (but maybe not), so
      I rejoined and posted the first message below. Below that are my
      posts for this evening. I left the YA group site to take a look at
      Jeff Davis's new roll-your-own-preload-ballscrews(nice!), and when I
      came back I had been banned.

      Lately a lot of YA group members have been concerned by the lack of
      support of CncPRO. Doug Yeager, the author, no longer answered direct
      group requests for help or advice with his program(s). As others
      wondered what to do, I suggested Master5 (and Mach1, its successor)
      by Art Fenerty. Art has been giving EXCELLENT support. A fact you can
      see by looking at the master5 yahoo group. You can also see the lack
      of support given in the last few months by YeagerAutomation in their
      yahoo group. (What you won't see is the messages I left recommending
      master5 to those who WERE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE! They've been
      deleted from the archive... Whether my "other" posts will remain I
      will not know)

      So this is presented so that you may make your own determination as
      to whether you want to use CncPRO; knowing that the moderator of the
      group feels the need to censor posts, and ban active members. You can
      see that I still answered posts of members that didn't have anything
      to do with YA directly:

      I understand that some will be pleased to hear of my banning. OK. The
      facts are here posted so that others can make up their own minds
      about using CncPRO, or other YA products.

      Ballendo

      First here is the welcome message for the group, sent to all members
      upon joining:

      >Subject: Welcome to yeagerautomation
      >
      >Group discussion on products provided by Yeager Automation and
      >related issues. Talk about whatever you wish. If there are specific
      >bug or feature issues, be aware that i don't read all the posts, so
      >you may have to address me directly.
      >
      >Only one rule: NO FLAMING!
      >
      >thx,
      >doug yeager
      >yeager automation
      >
      ********** tonights' posts ******************************************

      Hello Jeff, List,

      You and others in this group might like to know that my recent
      messages were deleted and I was apparently removed from the group.
      More than a few messages were removed, and I'm not sure who did it,
      but it sure smells of censorship...

      Many of these messages were suggestions to try Master5, for Art F
      over there IS providing support like Doug USED TO...

      The latest one included the statement that "saying you are supporting
      a product is not the same as doing so..."

      THESE MESSAGES WERE RESPONSES TO OTHERS WHO, LIKE JEFFS MESSAGE
      BELOW, ARE WONDERING WHAT TO MAKE OF THE PRESENT SITUATION...

      I'd sure like to know what happened?!? Doug, do you know?

      As I keep a record of all that I post, I will wait for an answer
      here. If none is provided, I will repost my deleted messages in other
      CNC groups. (along with this "explanation" note)

      Ballendo

      P.S. As a member of over 65 groups, none of which were similarly
      affected, I DON'T think this was a Yahoo error...

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "jeffdavis516" <cadman@p...> wrote:
      > If Doug has time to answer your messages why can't he send one
      little
      > note to this group just to say he is around and working? I might
      > make some of us feel a little better.
      >
      > Jeff Davis
      > http://www.homecnc.info
      >
      > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hello everyone,
      > >
      > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
      > supporting
      > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
      > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
      did
      > compare
      > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is not
      > that
      > > profesional as it looks.
      > >
      > > Rien Kleinjan
      **********************************************************************
      *
      Rian,

      I am quite fond of CncPRO. I am frustrated that doug no longer feels
      the need to answer questions posed directly to him on this forum,
      which I think HE started! (I understand that he may not read it
      everyday, but weeks have gone by with no response from him...)

      Master5 is as you say limited to 8192 steps/second. It ALSO runs
      directly in windows without additional "hardware". Its successor,
      Mach1, will not/does not have the same speed limitations. And the
      user interface will be user-configurable!

      Furthermore, the Master5 CVV IS TRUE CVV, not a one-entity lookahead.
      Most important, view the master5 group messages. Look at the time
      frame between when a question is asked, and when Art himself answers
      it!

      After all, the recent threads have been largely about whether this
      was a "dead" program or not, And I'm NOT the one posting them...

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo (saving a copy just in case)

      P.S. rather interesting to see a response to an "unlisted" message,
      don't you think?

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      wrote:
      > I'm not only staring at the controls, i'm even trying to work with
      master5 ! Master5 is not fast enough to do 4096 pulses/mm at
      1500mm/min and cncpro does !
      > So if you think Master5 is better thats your choice.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: ballendo
      > To: yeagerautomation@y...
      > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:09 PM
      > Subject: [yeagerautomation] Re: support cncpro (NOT)
      >
      >
      > Don't worry?!?
      >
      > Saying you are supporting something and actually doing it are two
      > different things...
      >
      > When we have had entire threads go by with no input from Doug
      (even
      > when he was specifically asked to comment), That is
      NOT "support",
      > IMO...
      >
      > Ballendo
      >
      > P.S. With respect to master5, try similar CVV dependent files on
      > both. M5 CVV blows CncPRO away! As to the "look" of M5, the new
      > version called mach1 will be configurable to support different
      looks.
      > Besides, its the guts that matter, IMO. Unless you are staring at
      the
      > control as you are making parts...
      >
      > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
      > wrote:
      > > Hello everyone,
      > >
      > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
      > supporting
      > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
      > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
      did
      > compare
      > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is
      not
      > that
      > > profesional as it looks.
      > >
      > > Rien Kleinjan
      >
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Randy,

      If by "rapiding" you mean an axis move with MDI, then there is an
      easy explanation... The need for a jog routine to tightly integrate
      itself with the keyboard; which a rapid move to a specific location
      does not need. The extra "reads" of the keyboard status could easily
      affect the sound you hear as the motor(s) move.

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo

      In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...> wrote:
      <snip>
      >But I found out that 20ipm jogging is not the same as 20ipm rapiding
      >(I can hear the difference in the tone the motors make) I was never
      >able to get an explanation from Doug about that.
      <snip>
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Les,

      See my previous post to Randy re losing steps. If one does not use
      the robotic-grade cable, AND if it is not constrained to a "rolling"
      motion (using instead what wire mfrs. call "tick-tock", which is like
      holding two ends of a loop and moving them together, apart, together,
      apart, etc.); you may find wire failure as early as 15000 cycles. The
      SAME cable properly used might make 300,000... a robotics-grade cable
      might make 3 million cycles.

      Worth knowing, IMO,

      Ballendo

      --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "paladinironworks"
      <paladinironworks@h...> wrote:
      > Your lead screw is 20 TPI?
      >
      > Double check steps per inch.
      >
      > You should be able to cut .06 deep at about 3 IPM I would think in
      > G10 Epoxy glass.
      > I hope you get it going, I know the feeling, my plasma cutter
      > started losing steps lately.
      >
      > Les
      **********************************************************************
      *

      Randy,

      Nearly all 3 axis controls default to xy plane for arcs (G17), BUT...

      Expressly STATING G17 IS good programming practice! It is part of a
      standard safety block, as you surmised. A cnc control should
      not "hiccup" on a G17... (so take it out if cncpro requires that you
      do so, but keep the habit of including it so you won't be surprised
      at other machines.)

      Hope this helps,

      Ballendo

      -- In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...>
      wrote:
      > At 09:58 PM 4/29/02 -0400, Ron wrote:
      >
      > >I still don't understand why you are using G17.
      > >There is nothing you describe to reguire it.
      >
      > OK, I'll leave it out. I thought that was a standard setup type of
      > command... But the less things to go wrong, the better! :-)
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Randy
      >
      > Randy Gordon-Gilmore ,----.___________ ______________
      _________________
    • Paolo Velcich
      Hi Ballendo, I totally agree with you. That group is almost dead now and I feel very sorry for being a registered CNCpro user. I already got a couple of
      Message 2 of 2 , May 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Ballendo,
        I totally agree with you. That group is almost dead now and I feel very
        sorry for being a registered CNCpro user. I already got a couple of
        private replies from Doug but he doesn't appear to be very friendly and
        cooperative. At least, he's his own ideas and he doesn't consider too
        much customers' requests.

        About Master5, I could personally verify the great availability of Art
        Fenerty and how quickly he usually replies to various queries and how
        collaborative he appears to be.
        I think the same can also be said about Dave on this group and
        privately.

        About Master 5, I'm only sorry that I'm unable to use it on most of my
        PCs because of that annoying "timer not counting" error which causes my
        machines to freeze. My machines are dual processors (PIII or XEONS).
        I will test it more, next week, on a couple of Athlon and Celeron
        processor based PCs.

        I have a question for you about CNCpro (and any other application for NC
        motion control). I have quite a smooth movement on my machine (using
        powerful 4,3Nm steppers on ballscrews and G201s) but under certain
        circumstances, the interpolated machining results in a
        almost-intermittent rather than smooth moving, like the path is
        segmented and it doesn't run continuously. (like stopping and starting
        every mm or so).
        Continuous contouring and coordinates updating don't appear to affect
        the situation.

        I know the path is good because I already machined it on professional
        CNC centers for actual mould making and it produced a perfectly finished
        mould surface.

        Back on the main issue of this thread, I think that making a product and
        selling it is only one small step, supporting it and keeping it updated
        and granting the customers' satisfaction is very important if not the
        most important tile in the puzzle.

        Rhino's success shows this pretty well, Rhino 3D is an excellent product
        but it has an excellent team support. The cooperation between the
        development team and the users made it possible to tailor it on market
        needs. They were smart enough to not change their behaving and the
        product is gaining more and more popularity every day all over the
        world.

        A big praise is due to both Art and Dave for their nice support and
        continuous efforts in order to improve their applications.

        Paolo

        Paolo Velcich
        industrial designer

        KORUM DESIGN
        Viale Tricesimo 5/6
        33100 - UDINE - ITALY
        tel. +39-348-2611707
        fax +39-0432-484695
        pavel@...


        -----Messaggio originale-----
        Da: ballendo [mailto:ballendo@...]
        Inviato: mercoledì 1 maggio 2002 12.25
        A: turbocnc@yahoogroups.com
        Oggetto: [turbocnc] OT FYI re Yeager automation group

        Hello fellow CNC'ers,

        (I apologise to members of multiple groups who receive multiple
        copies. I am posting this on groups where potential cnc control
        customers may be looking...)

        <begin msg>
        Tonight I was banned from a yahoo group. The first time ever.
        Yeager Automation (YA), a group for users of CncPRO and AceConverter.
        I had been a member since its inception, and had posted quite a few
        helpful messages (according to the responses given).

        I became aware of this tonight when "My groups" did not list me as a
        member of YA. I thought it might be a yahoo blip (but maybe not), so
        I rejoined and posted the first message below. Below that are my
        posts for this evening. I left the YA group site to take a look at
        Jeff Davis's new roll-your-own-preload-ballscrews(nice!), and when I
        came back I had been banned.

        Lately a lot of YA group members have been concerned by the lack of
        support of CncPRO. Doug Yeager, the author, no longer answered direct
        group requests for help or advice with his program(s). As others
        wondered what to do, I suggested Master5 (and Mach1, its successor)
        by Art Fenerty. Art has been giving EXCELLENT support. A fact you can
        see by looking at the master5 yahoo group. You can also see the lack
        of support given in the last few months by YeagerAutomation in their
        yahoo group. (What you won't see is the messages I left recommending
        master5 to those who WERE LOOKING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE! They've been
        deleted from the archive... Whether my "other" posts will remain I
        will not know)

        So this is presented so that you may make your own determination as
        to whether you want to use CncPRO; knowing that the moderator of the
        group feels the need to censor posts, and ban active members. You can
        see that I still answered posts of members that didn't have anything
        to do with YA directly:

        I understand that some will be pleased to hear of my banning. OK. The
        facts are here posted so that others can make up their own minds
        about using CncPRO, or other YA products.

        Ballendo

        First here is the welcome message for the group, sent to all members
        upon joining:

        >Subject: Welcome to yeagerautomation
        >
        >Group discussion on products provided by Yeager Automation and
        >related issues. Talk about whatever you wish. If there are specific
        >bug or feature issues, be aware that i don't read all the posts, so
        >you may have to address me directly.
        >
        >Only one rule: NO FLAMING!
        >
        >thx,
        >doug yeager
        >yeager automation
        >
        ********** tonights' posts ******************************************

        Hello Jeff, List,

        You and others in this group might like to know that my recent
        messages were deleted and I was apparently removed from the group.
        More than a few messages were removed, and I'm not sure who did it,
        but it sure smells of censorship...

        Many of these messages were suggestions to try Master5, for Art F
        over there IS providing support like Doug USED TO...

        The latest one included the statement that "saying you are supporting
        a product is not the same as doing so..."

        THESE MESSAGES WERE RESPONSES TO OTHERS WHO, LIKE JEFFS MESSAGE
        BELOW, ARE WONDERING WHAT TO MAKE OF THE PRESENT SITUATION...

        I'd sure like to know what happened?!? Doug, do you know?

        As I keep a record of all that I post, I will wait for an answer
        here. If none is provided, I will repost my deleted messages in other
        CNC groups. (along with this "explanation" note)

        Ballendo

        P.S. As a member of over 65 groups, none of which were similarly
        affected, I DON'T think this was a Yahoo error...

        --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "jeffdavis516" <cadman@p...> wrote:
        > If Doug has time to answer your messages why can't he send one
        little
        > note to this group just to say he is around and working? I might
        > make some of us feel a little better.
        >
        > Jeff Davis
        > http://www.homecnc.info
        >
        > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
        > wrote:
        > > Hello everyone,
        > >
        > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
        > supporting
        > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
        > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
        did
        > compare
        > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is not
        > that
        > > profesional as it looks.
        > >
        > > Rien Kleinjan
        **********************************************************************
        *
        Rian,

        I am quite fond of CncPRO. I am frustrated that doug no longer feels
        the need to answer questions posed directly to him on this forum,
        which I think HE started! (I understand that he may not read it
        everyday, but weeks have gone by with no response from him...)

        Master5 is as you say limited to 8192 steps/second. It ALSO runs
        directly in windows without additional "hardware". Its successor,
        Mach1, will not/does not have the same speed limitations. And the
        user interface will be user-configurable!

        Furthermore, the Master5 CVV IS TRUE CVV, not a one-entity lookahead.
        Most important, view the master5 group messages. Look at the time
        frame between when a question is asked, and when Art himself answers
        it!

        After all, the recent threads have been largely about whether this
        was a "dead" program or not, And I'm NOT the one posting them...

        Hope this helps,

        Ballendo (saving a copy just in case)

        P.S. rather interesting to see a response to an "unlisted" message,
        don't you think?

        --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
        wrote:
        > I'm not only staring at the controls, i'm even trying to work with
        master5 ! Master5 is not fast enough to do 4096 pulses/mm at
        1500mm/min and cncpro does !
        > So if you think Master5 is better thats your choice.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: ballendo
        > To: yeagerautomation@y...
        > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:09 PM
        > Subject: [yeagerautomation] Re: support cncpro (NOT)
        >
        >
        > Don't worry?!?
        >
        > Saying you are supporting something and actually doing it are two
        > different things...
        >
        > When we have had entire threads go by with no input from Doug
        (even
        > when he was specifically asked to comment), That is
        NOT "support",
        > IMO...
        >
        > Ballendo
        >
        > P.S. With respect to master5, try similar CVV dependent files on
        > both. M5 CVV blows CncPRO away! As to the "look" of M5, the new
        > version called mach1 will be configurable to support different
        looks.
        > Besides, its the guts that matter, IMO. Unless you are staring at
        the
        > control as you are making parts...
        >
        > --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "Rien Kleinjan" <rienkleinjan@s...>
        > wrote:
        > > Hello everyone,
        > >
        > > i just recieved a message from Doug Yeager that he is still
        > supporting
        > > cncpro. So don't worry......he is a busy man.
        > > Some people talk about Master5 as an alternative for cncpro. I
        did
        > compare
        > > the programs but i'm sorry for the users of master5.....it is
        not
        > that
        > > profesional as it looks.
        > >
        > > Rien Kleinjan
        >
        **********************************************************************
        *

        Randy,

        If by "rapiding" you mean an axis move with MDI, then there is an
        easy explanation... The need for a jog routine to tightly integrate
        itself with the keyboard; which a rapid move to a specific location
        does not need. The extra "reads" of the keyboard status could easily
        affect the sound you hear as the motor(s) move.

        Hope this helps,

        Ballendo

        In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...> wrote:
        <snip>
        >But I found out that 20ipm jogging is not the same as 20ipm rapiding
        >(I can hear the difference in the tone the motors make) I was never
        >able to get an explanation from Doug about that.
        <snip>
        **********************************************************************
        *

        Les,

        See my previous post to Randy re losing steps. If one does not use
        the robotic-grade cable, AND if it is not constrained to a "rolling"
        motion (using instead what wire mfrs. call "tick-tock", which is like
        holding two ends of a loop and moving them together, apart, together,
        apart, etc.); you may find wire failure as early as 15000 cycles. The
        SAME cable properly used might make 300,000... a robotics-grade cable
        might make 3 million cycles.

        Worth knowing, IMO,

        Ballendo

        --- In yeagerautomation@y..., "paladinironworks"
        <paladinironworks@h...> wrote:
        > Your lead screw is 20 TPI?
        >
        > Double check steps per inch.
        >
        > You should be able to cut .06 deep at about 3 IPM I would think in
        > G10 Epoxy glass.
        > I hope you get it going, I know the feeling, my plasma cutter
        > started losing steps lately.
        >
        > Les
        **********************************************************************
        *

        Randy,

        Nearly all 3 axis controls default to xy plane for arcs (G17), BUT...

        Expressly STATING G17 IS good programming practice! It is part of a
        standard safety block, as you surmised. A cnc control should
        not "hiccup" on a G17... (so take it out if cncpro requires that you
        do so, but keep the habit of including it so you won't be surprised
        at other machines.)

        Hope this helps,

        Ballendo

        -- In yeagerautomation@y..., Randy Gordon-Gilmore <zephyrus@r...>
        wrote:
        > At 09:58 PM 4/29/02 -0400, Ron wrote:
        >
        > >I still don't understand why you are using G17.
        > >There is nothing you describe to reguire it.
        >
        > OK, I'll leave it out. I thought that was a standard setup type of
        > command... But the less things to go wrong, the better! :-)
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Randy
        >
        > Randy Gordon-Gilmore ,----.___________ ______________
        _________________








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