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Re: Blue notes and their "amber" complements

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  • Kraig Grady
    Hi Danny! The Persians explored all the permutations of the Greeks so i would not be surprised at any similarity, actually the contrary. likewise i enjoyed the
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 1, 2008
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      Hi Danny!
      The Persians explored all the permutations of the Greeks so i would not
      be surprised at any similarity, actually the contrary. likewise i
      enjoyed the permutations which one can find with the CPS which serves as
      a great pitch base. i have often been impressed by what one can find in
      it, that it wasn't designed to have per se.

      John Chalmers did a list of all the epimoric tetrachords in his book,
      "The Divisions of the Tetrachord)
      --


      /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
      Mesotonal Music from:
      _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
      North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

      _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
      Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

      ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
    • Danny Wier
      ... Thanks for reminding me to read that. I found the text online, scanned in PDF in ten files; I thought someone posted the link before; but here it is again:
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 3, 2008
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        Kraig Grady wrote:
        > Hi Danny!
        > The Persians explored all the permutations of the Greeks so i would not
        > be surprised at any similarity, actually the contrary. likewise i
        > enjoyed the permutations which one can find with the CPS which serves as
        > a great pitch base. i have often been impressed by what one can find in
        > it, that it wasn't designed to have per se.
        >
        > John Chalmers did a list of all the epimoric tetrachords in his book,
        > "The Divisions of the Tetrachord)
        >

        Thanks for reminding me to read that. I found the text online, scanned
        in PDF in ten files; I thought someone posted the link before; but here
        it is again:

        http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~larry/published_articles/divisions_of_the_tetrachord/index.html

        I decided to go a different direction than what I said I'd do: make a
        list of tetrachords from simple sets of overtones, a:b:c:d where d/a =
        4/3, then pentachords a:b:c:d:e, and e/a = 3/2. The first one on the
        list is 9:10:11:12, which is vaguely like Rast.

        ~D.
      • Mark Rankin
        Danny,   Your mention of the sufi word qalb being the heart/conscience surprised me - when I was in Morocco in the early 1970 s I heard that kalb was
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 7, 2008
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          Danny,
           
          Your mention of the sufi word "qalb" being "the heart/conscience" surprised me - when I was in Morocco in the early 1970's I heard that "kalb" was arabic for "dog", and surmised that it was related to the Biblical name Caleb. 
          Mark Rankin
           

          --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
          From: Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>
          Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Blue notes and their "amber" complements
          To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 2:15 PM

          Kraig Grady wrote:
          > The complementary color to blue is Orange. And to many of the Sufi's has
          > the opposite meaning as the blues. (Henri Corbin is a good reference to
          > this)
          > What can or cannot be used in blues is such a question of context though.
          >

          Hey, I was reading about colors and the Lata'if-i Sitta not too long
          ago. (Those are the six centers of the psyche in Sufi psychology,
          comparable to chakras, and they have different colors assigned to them.)

          The "blue" _latifa_ ("subtlety") is the _nafs_, or passionate soul/ego,
          while the "yellow" _latifa_ is the _qalb_, the heart/conscience, which
          leads one to repent of things done out of passions in the _nafs_... but
          you might be thinking of something else entirely.

          > I have liked some of Ptolemy's chromatics though in this regard. that
          > 7/6 12/11 22/21 tetrachord rocks for me( try all inversions too!).
          > While the Dallesandro CPS is mapped to 31 pitches in the octave. these
          > glisses inbetween the smaller intervals with the scale have held me for
          > hours.
          >

          A tetrachord of 1/1-12/11-7/ 6-22/21 sounds a _little_ like what you have
          in Dastgah-e Chahargah: C Dp E F G Ap B C - if you treat the koron (p)
          as a 3/4 tone, and based on my limited knowledge of Iranian music, the
          koron is more like a 2/3 tone, maybe 13/12 or 14/13.

          Which reminds me, I need to make that list of epimoric tetrachords
          again, the one where in an increasing set of integers a, b, c, d: a/b,
          a/c, a/d, b/c, b/d and c/d are epimoric (superparticular ratios), and
          d/a = 4/3. Didn't Aristoxenus do this kind of study?

          I'm going OT twice in one post, so I'll shut up now... ~D.

        • Mark Rankin
          Danny,   Your mention of the sufi word qalb being the heart/conscience surprised me - when I was in Morocco in the early 1970 s I heard that kalb was
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 7, 2008
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            Danny,
             
            Your mention of the sufi word "qalb" being "the heart/conscience" surprised me - when I was in Morocco in the early 1970's I heard that "kalb" was arabic for "dog", and surmised that it was related to the Biblical name Caleb. 
            Mark Rankin
             

            --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
            From: Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>
            Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Blue notes and their "amber" complements
            To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 2:15 PM

            Kraig Grady wrote:
            > The complementary color to blue is Orange. And to many of the Sufi's has
            > the opposite meaning as the blues. (Henri Corbin is a good reference to
            > this)
            > What can or cannot be used in blues is such a question of context though.
            >

            Hey, I was reading about colors and the Lata'if-i Sitta not too long
            ago. (Those are the six centers of the psyche in Sufi psychology,
            comparable to chakras, and they have different colors assigned to them.)

            The "blue" _latifa_ ("subtlety") is the _nafs_, or passionate soul/ego,
            while the "yellow" _latifa_ is the _qalb_, the heart/conscience, which
            leads one to repent of things done out of passions in the _nafs_... but
            you might be thinking of something else entirely.

            > I have liked some of Ptolemy's chromatics though in this regard. that
            > 7/6 12/11 22/21 tetrachord rocks for me( try all inversions too!).
            > While the Dallesandro CPS is mapped to 31 pitches in the octave. these
            > glisses inbetween the smaller intervals with the scale have held me for
            > hours.
            >

            A tetrachord of 1/1-12/11-7/ 6-22/21 sounds a _little_ like what you have
            in Dastgah-e Chahargah: C Dp E F G Ap B C - if you treat the koron (p)
            as a 3/4 tone, and based on my limited knowledge of Iranian music, the
            koron is more like a 2/3 tone, maybe 13/12 or 14/13.

            Which reminds me, I need to make that list of epimoric tetrachords
            again, the one where in an increasing set of integers a, b, c, d: a/b,
            a/c, a/d, b/c, b/d and c/d are epimoric (superparticular ratios), and
            d/a = 4/3. Didn't Aristoxenus do this kind of study?

            I'm going OT twice in one post, so I'll shut up now... ~D.

          • hstraub64
            ... I don t know about Caleb - but AFAIK, kalb is indeed dog . And, also AFAIK, qalb and kalb are two separate things, with different pronounciation. --
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 8, 2008
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              --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rankin <markrankin95511@...> wrote:
              >
              > Danny,
              >  
              > Your mention of the sufi word "qalb" being "the heart/conscience"
              > surprised me - when I was in Morocco in the early 1970's I heard
              > that "kalb" was arabic for "dog", and surmised that it was related to
              > the Biblical name Caleb. 
              >

              I don't know about Caleb - but AFAIK, "kalb" is indeed "dog". And, also
              AFAIK, "qalb" and "kalb" are two separate things, with different
              pronounciation.
              --
              Hans Straub
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