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Re: re What?

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  • Andreas Sparschuh
    ... Hi Johnny & Brad, ... with equal ... ...except of incompetent ET claims in the late 19.th-centrury in an early edition of the Grove-Dictionary. Only
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 10, 2008
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      --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@... wrote:
      >
      Hi Johnny & Brad,
      > As a point of departure, there is nothing that connects J.S. Bach
      with equal
      > temperament. Nothing...
      ...except of incompetent ET claims in the late 19.th-centrury in
      an early edition of the Grove-Dictionary.
      Only heaven knows how long some scholars will continue
      persist in referring to that crackbrained nonsene.

      But back to the earlier 18.th century:
      Even J.G.Neidhard's attempts in approximating Simon Stevin's ET,
      http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/68755
      had no chance against JSB's uncle:

      http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/
      Quote:"
      Neidhardt, Johann Georg
      (b Bernstadt, c1685; d Königsberg, 1739). German theorist and
      composer. After early training at Altdorf and Wittenberg, Neidhardt
      matriculated as a theology student at Jena, where he produced his
      first treatise on temperament and apparently continued his musical
      training. It is likely that he studied with the university organist,
      J.N. Bach, who knew him well enough to allow him to try one of his
      temperaments on the new organ at the city's central church; Bach's
      tuning, however, was found more singable."

      JSB called him "senoir" of the Bach-family-clan:
      http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Nikolaus_Bach_%28Komponist%29
      "Johann Nikolaus Bach (* 10. Oktober 1669 in Eisenach, † 4. November
      1753 in Jena)" even suvived his nephew JSB over 9 years.
      As instrument builder in the clan he was also
      authority in questions of tuning:

      >
      http://www.bestii.com/~mschulter/Lehman_Bach_Neidhardt.txt
      "In his article (_Early Music_, February 2005, p. 15), Lehman
      tells the story of a contest to tune an organ in "absolutely
      equal temperament" in which Neidhardt, using a mathematically
      prepared monochord, was bested by his young colleague Nikolaus
      Bach "setting his set of 8' flutes entirely by ear." He suspects
      that Neidhardt "did achieve equal temperament or something
      indistinguishably close to it," while Bach sought and attained a
      temperament that "'_seems_ equal'" (Lehman's emphasis) to "all but
      the most finicky keyboard geeks, but is more musically pleasing."

      Sorry Brad,
      but that was completely wrong `suspceted`!,
      because the term more 'singable' meant in the coeval Baroque
      period still an clear distiction inbetween the JI ratios of:

      C 10:9 D 9:8 E 16:15 F 9:8 G 10:9 A 9:8 Bb 16:15 C'

      That contains 2 clearly discernabele whole-tone steps:

      1. Pythagorean 'major-tone' of ratio: 9:8 ~204Cents
      2. Syntonic 'minor-tone' of ratio: 10:9 ~182Cents

      hence coeval singer expected in C-major related keys
      for C-E and G-A even less than an meantone-step: ~193Cents,
      when singing in keys near C-major.

      That discerning of the both versions of an tone survied
      even the classical period in terms of Kirnberger2,
      with D-E & G-A even exactly matching 10:9.
      That quality was lost not until the romantic-period,
      when the formerly strings in the instruments became stonger and
      stronger. That change in arising the diameter of strings,
      followed an fit in tuning nearer to somehow ET approximations,
      as we do have still in todays intruments.


      Werckmeister III satisfies
      J.N. Bachs's 'singable'-condition
      of having for C-D & G-A whole-tones
      less than an meantone step of: ~193Cents.

      but Neidhard approximates in all his proposals barely
      his own preference:
      Pythagorean 'major-tone's of 9:8 everywhere allover the scale,
      so that the members of Jena's choir-singers had no orientation,
      when expecting Syntonic minor-tones at the usual positions.

      Neidhardt's oversimlification simply
      neglects the demanded difference inbetween
      major(9:8)- versus minor(10:9)-tones in JI.
      as awaited by the Jena-singers inbetween C-D & G-A,
      even lower than in old meantonics.

      Hence -no wonder- Neidhardt lost the tuning-competition vs. JNB
      so embarassing in an disappointing fiasco at his Jena-debacle.

      He got simply to near to ET in order to pass the examination
      of the singer's jury, which anticipated something nearer to JI.

      Cnclusion for modern HIPerformance for music of the Bach-family:

      It's no good idea to follow the inferior Neidhardt in his attempts,
      when speculating about new remakes again of
      so called alleged modern "Bach-tunings".

      Sorry Brad, concerning yours wishful-thinking
      you simply choosed an inapt candidate,
      when betting on the wrong horse
      in matters of "squiggles" allegations.

      Recommendation:
      Plaese rethink that matter once more over again,
      before republishing such "wishful-thinking" anew.

      Yours regretfully
      A.S.
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