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epimoric bisection 81:80

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  • Brad Lehman
    ... I have a straightforward practical question. With only an A=440 tuning fork in one hand, a harpsichord tuning lever in the other hand, and absolutely NO
    Message 1 of 69 , Jul 1, 2008
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      --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Sparschuh" <a_sparschuh@...>

      > Sparschuh's 80:81 inbetween F-C-G-D-A-E and 32768:32805 in E B...Bb F
      > !
      > 12
      > !
      > 2790/2463
      > 2960/2463
      > 6275/2463 ! was > 3135/2463 formerly
      > 6615/4926 ! (5:4)(882:881)
      > 3524/2463 ! (4:3)(882:881) was > 3525/2463 ! (4:3)(3525:3524)
      > 3720/2463
      > 3960/2463 ! (3:2)(880:881)
      > 4185/2463 ! was > 4180/2463 formerly
      > 4425/2463
      > 4705/4700 ! was > 4700/2463 fromerly
      > 4960/2463
      > 2/1
      > !
      > Quests:
      > Who in that group here dares to try that on his/hers own instrument?

      I have a straightforward practical question.

      With only an A=440 tuning fork in one hand, a harpsichord tuning lever
      in the other hand, and absolutely NO electronic devices of any kind:
      how exactly should one proceed to get all twelve of your notes
      correctly tuned onto a harpsichord, using this scheme? And with no
      way of measuring integer frequencies, either, or knowing when they've
      been achieved precisely?

      To what precision are errors acceptable? And why?

      > Are there any proposals in order to improve even that once more
      > again?

      It depends what the word "improve" means to you. Does one first have
      to agree with your goal of proportional beating, and your constraint
      of integer frequencies? All this stuff just looks like
      nearly-meaningless tables of numerals to me, sorry; the only way I
      know to assess its quality is to see if it agrees with *your own*
      goals...which doesn't tell us one way or another about the usefulness
      for anything else *but* your own goal of proportional beating (or
      whatever it is).

      If I'd somehow take the time and get this temperament set up on my
      harpsichord, within some acceptable error tolerance but without using
      any electronic devices: how would the resulting temperament sound in
      playing (say) some late Couperin? What does it do for the music,
      harmonically and melodically? That's the kind of thing I personally
      care about: a temperament that sounds great in the music, and that can
      be done entirely by ear in less than 10 minutes without having to
      calculate (or even refer to) a page of numbers. How, please?

      And, what happens if I'd want to start on A=430 or something else
      (maybe not having anything to do with integers!), or on some C? Does
      it all need to be recalculated? Help out the practical musicians who
      just want to listen to the sounds of intervallic relationships,
      calculating nothing....

      Brad Lehman
    • Ozan Yarman
      Dear Mike, my apologies for the very late reply. As I have stated in my recent message to Margo Schulter, I had been enjoying a well deserved summer s rest. To
      Message 69 of 69 , Aug 10, 2008
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        Dear Mike, my apologies for the very late reply. As I have stated in
        my recent message to Margo Schulter, I had been enjoying a well
        deserved summer's rest.

        To answer your enquiry, here are some links to older messages to this
        forum on the subject of masters of Turkish maqam music:




        The names of some of the prominent masters have been listed in these
        messages. A search in amazon.com could yield links to the performances
        of masters themselves.

        Fusion type endeavours in "world music" does occasionally result in
        original productions worthy of approval. However, for a crash course
        in maqam music, you need to listen to acclaimed executants and
        venerable exponents of the tradition, not syntheses.

        Direct personal experience of Allah is very much ingrained in Sufi
        music. Most of the known neyzens in Turkiye are into tasavvuf. You are
        likely to enjoy the Erguner brothers, the elder of which, Kudsi, has
        done world fusion too if I heard correctly:


        If you are into the Turkish ney for the love of its trancendental
        sound, here are acknowledged quotidian performers of the instrument:




        On Jun 28, 2008, at 7:42 AM, Mike Battaglia wrote:

        > On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...
        > > wrote:
        >> I think the theory of Maqam music and other "ethnic" genres around
        >> the
        >> world are much neglected by the alternative tuning list community.
        >> Most of the discussions are centered around either historical or
        >> contemporary microtonalisms for furthering Western music culture
        >> alone. While I appreciate the contributions by the West to musical
        >> art, I believe the Western quarter (pun intended) can account for
        >> only
        >> a fraction of the actual music-making in the globe. One of the
        >> greatest traditions is right next door: A venerable monophonal Middle
        >> Eastern culture based on maqamat, destgaha and raga. This "exotic"
        >> culture has been influenced by a thousand years of Islamic atmosphere
        >> to inspire such styles and practices as Mevlevi rites, Qawwali
        >> performances, peshrevs, taqsims, gazels, etc... Your penchant to
        >> discover more of the theories and styles of exotic traditions is
        >> admirable.
        >> Though my experience is most inadequate to describe the musical
        >> wonders of the Islamic Civilization, my presence in the tuning list
        >> as
        >> a fresh academician should be construed as an oppurtunity to discover
        >> a glimpse of at least the Turkish branch of this grand culture.
        > Well hey man, if you have a listening list of stuff you can recommend,
        > I think we'd all love to check it out. World music is one of the most
        > fascinating things in the, well, the world. Mainly because you have
        > thousands of years of musical development behind most of these
        > cultures and styles, and so they are usually very much advanced.
        > Jeff Buckley did a Qawwali-inspired song, "Dream Brother," in which he
        > mixed pop/rock with traditional Qawwali elements, and it's one of my
        > favorite songs. I started looking for some traditional Qawwali
        > recordings when I heard that song, and I didn't really find much.
        > Any time there is an old, ancient branch of music that has reached as
        > high of a level of artistic development as the one we're talking about
        > here, people will be interested. I just think many don't know about it
        > yet.
        > One interesting thing to note is that the religious music of all of
        > the world sounds very, very, very similar. Perhaps not the music that
        > is "associated" with various churches and such - but the music that
        > monks sing, the music that is sung to draw people closer to the
        > experience of God.
        > -Mike
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